#4961 ·
It’s quite a scenario when someone suggests India, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, or Tajikistan as a viable alternative...
What is there even to say about that?
What is there even to say about that?
Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 739 views · 9.5K replies
hollowdriver13 said:Dmitry Rogozin😂
At the end of the day, they got exactly what they asked for. They were the ones who first suggested pulling back the recognition of sovereignty, so now even the flow of goods doesn't count for much.
Even though Kyiv totally played them—by pulling that document about Prince Volodymyr founding Moscow, which technically means Moscow doesn't even exist as an independent city anymore—they still fell for the trolls hook, line, and sinker.☕
Anyway, they got what they wanted. They were the first ones to say they'd pull their recognition of statehood, and now even the cargo isn't flowing.
wiredseal7 said:Don't try to play people for fools—if you actually think the claim in that link is wrong, just explain why.Anyway, they got what they wanted. They were the first ones to say they'd pull their recognition of statehood, and now even the cargo isn't flowing.
They definitely haven't pulled that recognition—hardly anyone would walk away from that deal now, regardless of this.
Maybe someone said it, but personally, I doubt it's an official stance.
Noah Diaz said:I think China would handle losing a market of 500 million people much more gracefully than the EU could handle losing a market of 4 billion, especially with fossil fuel shortages and resource scarcity looming. In that scenario, the sheer idiocy of the EU would plunge them straight back into the Middle Ages overnight.
That’s exactly what happens when China launches a "special operation" to reclaim Taiwan and achieve unification. It isn't a matter of if it will happen—it's strictly a matter of when.All this talk about military and political alliances is child's play. Real alliances require shared values and mutual trust. That kind of bond will never exist between Russia and China. And honestly, only you would try to wedge India into that equation, considering they are a geopolitical rival to China.
The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation is essentially a massive geopolitical heavyweight sitting right at the heart of Eurasia. Think of it as a powerhouse bloc where major players like China, Russia, and India all sit around the same table to tackle everything from regional security to economic integration. It’s not just some casual club; it's a structured organization designed to bolster stability and cooperation across a huge stretch of territory. While its origins were rooted in border security and fighting against things like terrorism and separatism, it has evolved into a much broader platform for influence. It’s a fascinating look at how power dynamics shift when these massive nations decide to coordinate their efforts on the global stage.Back in July 2015 in Ufa, Russia, the SCO made the call to bring India and Pakistan in as full members. They both officially signed the memorandum of obligations in June 2016 in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, kicking off the formal process to join the group as full members. On June 9, 2017, during a summit held in Astana, India and Pakistan officially became full members of the SCO.
Look, those fierce rivals—India and Pakistan—stepped up at the exact same time. You want to know what they actually have in common? They’re both hell-bent on toppling American hegemony and knocking its allies off the global throne.
Noah Diaz said:I think China would handle losing a market of 500 million people much more gracefully than the EU could handle losing a market of 4 billion, especially with fossil fuel shortages and resource scarcity looming. In that scenario, the sheer idiocy of the EU would plunge them straight back into the Middle Ages overnight.
That’s exactly what happens when China launches a "special operation" to reclaim Taiwan and achieve unification. It isn't a matter of if it will happen—it's strictly a matter of when.All this talk about military and political alliances is child's play. Real alliances require shared values and mutual trust. That kind of bond will never exist between Russia and China. And honestly, only you would try to wedge India into that equation, considering they are a geopolitical rival to China.
The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation is essentially a massive geopolitical heavyweight sitting right at the heart of Eurasia. Think of it as a powerhouse bloc where major players like China, Russia, and India all sit around the same table to tackle everything from regional security to economic integration. It’s not just some casual club; it's a structured organization designed to bolster stability and cooperation across a huge stretch of territory. While its origins were rooted in border security and fighting against things like terrorism and separatism, it has evolved into a much broader platform for influence. It’s a fascinating look at how power dynamics shift when these massive nations decide to coordinate their efforts on the global stage.Back in July 2015 in Ufa, Russia, the SCO made the call to bring India and Pakistan in as full members. They both officially signed the memorandum of obligations in June 2016 in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, kicking off the formal process to join the group as full members. On June 9, 2017, during a summit held in Astana, India and Pakistan officially became full members of the SCO.
Look, those fierce rivals—India and Pakistan—stepped up at the exact same time. You want to know what they actually have in common? They’re both hell-bent on toppling American hegemony and knocking its allies off the global throne.
Nathan Thomas12 said:You're being a bit full of yourself, if you don't mind me saying.
The raw population numbers don't mean squat here—if we went by your logic, the Indian economy would somehow be three times larger than the entire West combined.
The real question is whether massive factories and high-end tech flowed into China from India or from the West. As of right now, China is still basically the manufacturing floor for the West, and it'll stay that way for quite a while. Sure, you're entitled to your opinion, but as an economist, that sounds incredibly idiotic to me. By your math, the economies of Switzerland and Mexico are basically the same, even though they aren't even in the same universe. Maybe one day you'll catch up.
Bottom line: every modern nation was built on the back of the dollar and Western tech.
The Cold War ended with the collapse of the USSR, which led to Russia opening up to the West and seeing massive growth. Now, we're seeing the reverse process play out.
George Robinson43 said:A nation capable of landing Rovers on Mars can no longer be dismissed as just a workshop for the West.
They are doing everything in their power to transition away from being a mere manufacturer, and they are succeeding brilliantly.
hollowdriver13 said:Look, if we’re going to talk like this, fine. Honestly, the only real idiot here is Rogozin—and anyone else who parrots his nonsense without even bothering to fact-check it first. But hey, I guess that’s just standard Russophile behavior, isn't it? You grab some random snippet that happens to fit a specific narrative, run with it, and then act all smug about how right you were. Typical.
So, this guy—this total vodka-soaked joke—is rambling about stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with freight or transit. He’s actually talking about visa-free travel and people crossing borders, which is something he really should have a handle on given his history as a former governor of the Kaliningrad region. But honestly? Expecting any kind of actual intelligence from him is pretty much like expecting to find a party atmosphere on the Moon.
Honestly, since we're already diving down this rabbit hole, this is just another perfect example of how Russia has never truly come to terms with the collapse of the USSR.
Yeah, let's take a second to actually look back at all the nonsense they were pulling regarding that situation back then.
A US official told CNN last week that Russia has been pushing a group of new demands that will reduce the effectiveness of the agreement reached last year between Russia and the EU on the transit question. It looks like things are getting complicated again. Basically, Moscow is trying to move the goalposts on an agreement that was supposed to settle how energy moves through the region, and it’s creating a lot of friction with European Union leaders. It feels like Russia is once again testing how much they can get away with. By throwing these new requirements onto the table, they might be trying to weaken the stability of the deal we thought was solid. It’s a classic move—wait until everyone thinks the dust has settled, then pivot to grab more leverage. Honestly, it's a bit exhausting to watch this cycle repeat itself, but that seems to be the playbook lately. We'll have to see if the European Union stands its ground or if these new demands actually start to chip away at the previous progress.
A US official told CNN last week that Russia has been pushing a group of new demands that will reduce the effectiveness of the agreement reached last year between Russia and the EU on the transit question.
It’s just the classic Russian negotiation tactic: they agree to something, everyone shakes hands, papers get signed, and then right before ratification kicks in, they suddenly "remember" they want to change everything. Honestly, it sounds incredibly familiar, doesn't it? Just gives me major Minsk or Minsk 2 vibes.
Kirkilas mentioned that the Russians seem pretty hesitant about actually moving forward with the readmission treaty talks. He basically pointed out that lately, they’ve been avoiding calling these meetings "negotiations" altogether, opting for the term "consultations" instead. On top of that, they're just sending low-level officials to handle the discussions. Honestly, we've seen this playbook before—it's a classic stall tactic. To me, it really just means that there is no political decision in Moscow yet. It looks like they haven't quite figured out if they actually want to sign the treaty or if they'd rather just drag their feet and use it as leverage against Lithuania in the future.
It’s always the exact same playbook. Decades go by and the Russians just don't change. They aren't actually holding negotiations; they call them "consultations," which is just a fancy way of saying they're keeping the whole mess simmering under the surface, just waiting for the right moment to let it all blow up again in the future.
Let's keep this rolling.
The Lithuanian envoy mentioned that it’s anyone's guess why Russia seems to be pulling back on its commitments right now, but he suggested that Moscow might just be looking to squeeze a few extra concessions out of Brussels during that Russia-EU summit coming up in May. He also pointed out that these stalling tactics could be a calculated move to play to the Russian public before the parliamentary elections in December.
Kirkilas mentioned that Russia might be trying to capitalize on the friction currently splitting the European Union regarding the war in Iraq. He basically thinks Russia is looking to poke at the cracks in European unity, banking on the idea that since EU nations are preoccupied with their own issues right now, they won't be as quick to step up and stand behind Lithuanian interests.
So, looks like we’re seeing a classic attempt by Russia to sow some discord. Just their usual playbook, really.
Kirkilas alleged that Russia, by stalling on the treaty talks, is attempting to sabotage Lithuania's aims of joining the Schengen agreement. Russian officials—at least those in the lower ranks— I honestly still haven't quite wrapped my head around the whole situation with Lithuania joining the EU and NATO. It’s one of those things that just sticks in the back of my mind. The envoy mentioned it.
I mean, honestly, who would’ve thought? It turns out the Russians just haven't quite come to terms with losing their old Soviet empire... nope, they're total imperialists, and apparently, they're never going to let it go!
And here comes the coup de grace
"Even though it’s been over a decade since the USSR collapsed, Russia hasn't actually ratified a single border treaty with any of the former republics. It’s pretty clear they only view the independence of these new nations as a temporary thing. By stalling on these border agreements, they’re basically keeping the door wide open to launch an invasion under the guise of a tiny territorial dispute," Radzvilas said.
Just translating the whole thing so nobody gets lost in translation...
"Even though it’s been more than 10 years since the collapse of the USSR, there isn't a single former Soviet republic with which Russia has ratified a border treaty. There is no doubt that this shows Russia views the independence of the former Soviet republics as a temporary state. By refusing to ratify border agreements, they leave themselves the opportunity to start an aggression against those countries over some minor territorial dispute."
If you didn't know better, you'd think we were talking about Ukraine instead of Lithuania and stuff that happened decades ago... the only real difference is that Lithuania was already under the NATO umbrella back then. The total losers who dared to push back even slightly couldn't do a damn thing. Now, they figured the West was too distracted and weakened by the fallout from COVID to stop them, thinking they could just slide this through while Ukraine waits with open arms to welcome them as "liberators."
Literally the textbook definition of "a leopard never changes its spots."
Alright, give us a little more Rogozin—go ahead and bury yourself again with that bag of bad jokes and vodka.
http://en.kremlin.ru/supplement/3537
1. The parties acknowledge the unique situation of the Kaliningrad Region as part of the Russian Federation but separated from the rest of the Federation by other states. With the aim of further developing the strategic partnership between EU and Russia, the parties therefore agree to make a special effort to accommodate the concerns on both sides related to the future transit of persons and goods between the Kaliningrad Region and other parts of Russia, and to intensify their cooperation to promote the social and economic development of the region as a whole.
Donna Harris11 said:In all of this, the funniest part has to be Germany:
They shut down their nuclear plants and those coal-fired power stations
Then they built gas plants, only to kill off Nord Stream 2, which would have let them bypass those leeches in the Baltics
And then they went and slapped sanctions on cheap oil from Russia
George Robinson43 said:A nation capable of landing Rovers on Mars can no longer be dismissed as just a workshop for the West.
They are doing everything in their power to transition away from being a mere manufacturer, and they are succeeding brilliantly.
Noah Diaz said:I think China would handle losing a market of 500 million people much more gracefully than the EU could handle losing a market of 4 billion, especially with fossil fuel shortages and resource scarcity looming. In that scenario, the sheer idiocy of the EU would plunge them straight back into the Middle Ages overnight.
That’s exactly what happens when China launches a "special operation" to reclaim Taiwan and achieve unification. It isn't a matter of if it will happen—it's strictly a matter of when.All this talk about military and political alliances is child's play. Real alliances require shared values and mutual trust. That kind of bond will never exist between Russia and China. And honestly, only you would try to wedge India into that equation, considering they are a geopolitical rival to China.
The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation is essentially a massive geopolitical heavyweight sitting right at the heart of Eurasia. Think of it as a powerhouse bloc where major players like China, Russia, and India all sit around the same table to tackle everything from regional security to economic integration. It’s not just some casual club; it's a structured organization designed to bolster stability and cooperation across a huge stretch of territory. While its origins were rooted in border security and fighting against things like terrorism and separatism, it has evolved into a much broader platform for influence. It’s a fascinating look at how power dynamics shift when these massive nations decide to coordinate their efforts on the global stage.Back in July 2015 in Ufa, Russia, the SCO made the call to bring India and Pakistan in as full members. They both officially signed the memorandum of obligations in June 2016 in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, kicking off the formal process to join the group as full members. On June 9, 2017, during a summit held in Astana, India and Pakistan officially became full members of the SCO.
Look, those fierce rivals—India and Pakistan—stepped up at the exact same time. You want to know what they actually have in common? They’re both hell-bent on toppling American hegemony and knocking its allies off the global throne.
Michael Ortiz68 said:LOL, since when does market viability depend solely on population size?
The European Union has one-third the population of India, yet it imports five times the value of goods from China compared to India.
Similarly, the European Union has three times the population of Russia, but its import value from China is seven times higher.
It’s a good thing the Chinese don't operate based on your logic; they wouldn't want to shoot themselves in the foot.
Paul Kern12 said:The Chinese are being pragmatic; they aren't going to sabotage their own interests.
Unlike Europe—which seems to have shot itself in both feet.
Paul Kern12 said:The Chinese are being pragmatic; they aren't going to sabotage their own interests.
Unlike Europe—which seems to have shot itself in both feet.
William Anderson5 said:Still, I suppose that's an improvement over Russia, which just decided to shoot itself in the head.
wiredseal7 said:The 2002 Agreement:http://en.kremlin.ru/supplement/3537
1. The parties acknowledge the unique situation of the Kaliningrad Region as part of the Russian Federation but separated from the rest of the Federation by other states. With the aim of further developing the strategic partnership between EU and Russia, the parties therefore agree to make a special effort to accommodate the concerns on both sides related to the future transit of persons and goods between the Kaliningrad Region and other parts of Russia, and to intensify their cooperation to promote the social and economic development of the region as a whole.
It’s not super detailed—maybe they ironed things out in a later deal—but it clearly states that each side will 'accommodate the concerns' of the other regarding the transit of people and goods. Apparently, that’s what they’ve been doing all these years. Now, suddenly after some decree, that's out the window.
Well, if you're fine with blockades, I guess you wouldn't have minded if Canada had decided to shut down all transit through Neum a few years ago, before they built that highway? You could have just taken a ferry, no big deal.🙂
Anyway, this is a massive aggressive move by Lithuania (whose government keeps proving how immature they are) and the EU if they actually advised this—not surprisingly, the reaction from Russia is harsh. The logic is that they're preoccupied with Ukraine, and luckily, Kaliningrad can be supplied by sea or air. Just like the Berlin blockade, really; war will likely be avoided.
As for Rogozin, I don't know why you're so obsessed with the head of Roscosmos, acting like you're living in some bubble where everything Russian is automatically a bag of salty jokes.
Try Arestovych instead—that guy acts like he's got five PhDs when he really only has one, unlike Rogozin.☕
George Robinson43 said:That was the whole point of NS1.
NS2 had a completely different mission—getting their gas into the EU via Germany to reach the massive Baungarten hub near Vienna while shutting down all other pipelines.
The grand plan was for Russia, Germany, and Austria to hold the entire EU hostage with gas. It’s no wonder Schroeder and Schüssel were rewarded with million-dollar cushy jobs in Moscow.
Even then, NS2 was practically doomed once the smart players realized what was coming and started building terminals and pipelines toward the North Sea.