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Sanctions on Russia

Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 627 views · 9.5K replies

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silentnomad7 silentnomad7 Active Member
127 messages
joined Jan 2018
#5541 ·
Terry Green3 said:That’s not how an economy works. Not under capitalism, anyway. Maybe if the EU started implementing five-year plans and centralized schemes like the USSR used to.

But honestly, capitalism always finds a way to pivot! Look at what's happening right now in the European Union—they're already swapping out Russian gas and oil for different sources. It's all about adaptation. Even if trade with China were to completely dry up, capital would simply flow back into the European Union to open up new factories, because there's plenty of profit to be made right here...
Noah Diaz Noah Diaz Active Member
114 messages
joined Sep 2021
#5542 ·
swiftjackal11 said:There are really two types of people here. Some actually get who the aggressor is, while others think "denazification" is a perfectly fine excuse for targeting a nation.

Everyone knows exactly who started this fight and who is just trying to survive.

The real issue is that most people don't think for themselves; they let someone else do their mental heavy lifting.

At this rate, paying through the nose for energy costs is just another way of shooting ourselves in the foot.
Melissa Rivera5 Melissa Rivera5 Regular
432 messages
joined Jun 2024
#5543 ·
Terry Green3 said:That’s not how an economy works. Not under capitalism, anyway. Maybe if the EU started implementing five-year plans and centralized schemes like the USSR used to.

Sure, because things went so incredibly well for the USSR. 😁

Noah Diaz said:Everyone knows exactly who started this fight and who is just trying to survive.

The real issue is that most people don't think for themselves; they let someone else do their mental heavy lifting.

At this rate, paying through the nose for energy costs is just another way of shooting ourselves in the foot.

I mean, not everyone gets it. There are groups around here who just swallow everything they read in the New York Post, so they end up thinking Ukraine actually attacked Russia first. Then they start peddling this whole narrative about how Russia was just "provoked" into it. And honestly? Yeah, paying for a gallon of gas feels a lot cheaper right now. $5.25 I mean, we're talking about rebuilding half the country later on... maybe.
crimsoncyclist71 crimsoncyclist71 Active Member
175 messages
joined Aug 2016
#5544 ·
Noah Diaz said:Everyone knows exactly who started this fight and who is just trying to survive.

The real issue is that most people don't think for themselves; they let someone else do their mental heavy lifting.

At this rate, paying through the nose for energy costs is just another way of shooting ourselves in the foot.

So, I guess you're one of the rare geniuses actually using your brain while the rest of us are just mindless drones incapable of forming our own opinions? 🤔

No, paying premium prices for fuel isn't "normal," just like refusing to see who is actually responsible for this mess isn't normal either.
crimsoncyclist71 crimsoncyclist71 Active Member
175 messages
joined Aug 2016
#5545 ·
Terry Green3 said:The whole forum mob gathers just to nitpick who's who. 🤣

AJ, why don't you just head to Ukraine? I heard Zelenko pays well.

Then why don't you move to Russia?
Every single one of your posts reeks of a pathological hatred for the West. It's unclear what you're still doing here. What exactly are you waiting for? For the USA and England to turn into proletarian states? 🤔
swiftjackal11 swiftjackal11 Regular
271 messages
joined May 2018
#5546 ·
Noah Diaz said:Everyone knows exactly who started this fight and who is just trying to survive.

The real issue is that most people don't think for themselves; they let someone else do their mental heavy lifting.

At this rate, paying through the nose for energy costs is just another way of shooting ourselves in the foot.

Fuel prices were going up anyway, even before Putin decided to go after Ukraine. How does that work?
swiftjackal11 swiftjackal11 Regular
271 messages
joined May 2018
#5547 ·
crimsoncyclist71 said:Then why don't you move to Russia?
Every single one of your posts reeks of a pathological hatred for the West. It's unclear what you're still doing here. What exactly are you waiting for? For the USA and England to turn into proletarian states? 🤔

Total masochist. Russia is paradise for someone like him, yet he stays here rotting. He can't even stand the word "war." He'd much rather live by following Putin's orders, but hey, some people just love the pain.
dustyowl29 dustyowl29 Regular
258 messages
joined Dec 2007
#5548 ·
swiftjackal11 said:Fuel prices were going up anyway, even before Putin decided to go after Ukraine. How does that work?

Just one crisis piled on top of another.
The economic meltdown in Germany—which paved the way for A. Hitler and eventually led us straight into WWII—is a classic example.
Bryan Booth82 Bryan Booth82 Regular
483 messages
joined Feb 2024
#5549 ·
memulica Asks:
Are we actually at war with the Russians now?! 🤣

Oh, let’s be honest here—we are absolutely at war with Russia. Or, if you want to be more precise about it, she is in a full-blown war against the West.

If we are actively providing aid to one side of a conflict—I mean, if we're shipping out weapons, training their military, ensuring our own people aren't being sent to fight on that side, and slapping them with heavy economic sanctions... then we are effectively at war, aren't we? Let's call it what it is.

I don't even know where to begin with this one. Just... wow. What am I even supposed to say? Is there any point in even engaging when things have reached this level of absurdity? It’s honestly exhausting.
amberranger19 amberranger19 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Mar 2016
#5550 ·
Let me start with those three dots... you know, because some tank enthusiasts think I need to sound all deep and philosophical... so... Look, just because I disagree with how the West handles most of the rest of the world—and all the chaos that policy triggers, like in Afghanistan, Libya, or Vietnam—doesn't mean I’m suddenly some anti-Western extremist. People love to jump to that conclusion. They act like if you aren't 100% on board, you should just pack up and move to somewhere like Libya, where "democracy" caused unrest just yesterday and now everything is supposedly blooming perfectly... Give me a break. Stop telling people to relocate just because they don't agree with the way hegemons tear things apart globally. That's called criticizing the system I actually live in. I'm not a sheep who thinks everything is perfect. Here are my three dots for you...
Bryan Booth82 Bryan Booth82 Regular
483 messages
joined Feb 2024
#5551 ·
dustyowl29 said:Just one crisis piled on top of another.
The economic meltdown in Germany—which paved the way for A. Hitler and eventually led us straight into WWII—is a classic example.

I honestly think the comparisons and analogies hold water here. The rise of Putin is a direct consequence of a crisis... one that looks strikingly similar to the chaos that fueled A. Hitler's ascent in Germany.
Beyond that, you can find plenty of parallels between those two dictators when looking at this current aggression against neighboring Ukraine.

Best regards,
Bryan Booth82 Bryan Booth82 Regular
483 messages
joined Feb 2024
#5552 ·
amberranger19 said:Let me start with those three dots... you know, because some tank enthusiasts think I need to sound all deep and philosophical... so... Look, just because I disagree with how the West handles most of the rest of the world—and all the chaos that policy triggers, like in Afghanistan, Libya, or Vietnam—doesn't mean I’m suddenly some anti-Western extremist. People love to jump to that conclusion. They act like if you aren't 100% on board, you should just pack up and move to somewhere like Libya, where "democracy" caused unrest just yesterday and now everything is supposedly blooming perfectly... Give me a break. Stop telling people to relocate just because they don't agree with the way hegemons tear things apart globally. That's called criticizing the system I actually live in. I'm not a sheep who thinks everything is perfect. Here are my three dots for you...

You tried to write a justification for the Russian aggression against Ukraine...(three dots)...(again), but you failed miserably, because what you said makes absolutely zero sense.

lp
electricsurfer47 electricsurfer47 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jun 2018
#5553 ·
Noah Diaz said:Everyone knows exactly who started this fight and who is just trying to survive.

The real issue is that most people don't think for themselves; they let someone else do their mental heavy lifting.

At this rate, paying through the nose for energy costs is just another way of shooting ourselves in the foot.

Just think about it. Once Europe adapts, while Mexico stays stuck relying solely on Russian gas and oil. In Ukraine, those pipelines carrying the gas will be destroyed, and they'll stop importing Russian gas and oil entirely.
Mexico will be the one that shot itself in the foot, because from the very start, they backed the aggressor.
casualtiger2 casualtiger2 Regular
330 messages
joined Apr 2022
#5554 ·
The fallout from the sanctions on Russia—it’s happening. The fall is coming.

The new Chevrolet Grant recently rolled off the assembly line at the Automotive plant. According to their press release, they’re leaning into some extra bells and whistles—think color-matched door panels, heated mirrors, and electric adjustments. The factory over in Tolyati actually shut down after Ford pulled out of the country due to sanctions, eventually handing the keys over to the Russian government.

Media outlets are claiming that Vladimir Putin's Russia can thrive without the West—even with all those sanctions in place. Honestly? The PR spin is just ignoring everything missing from their latest Chevrolet—things like anti-lock brakes, airbags, seatbelt pretensioners, electronic stability control, or even an emergency call system.

That 1.6-liter naturally aspirated engine pumping out 90 HP? Yeah, it doesn't even touch the EPA Tier 3 standards anymore—it’s basically stuck in 1996 territory, barely meeting EPA Tier 1 levels. To make matters worse, the government actually lowered the testing requirements just so they could get the car registered. Typical. When Ali Grant says a car is "multimedia ready"—it’s really just a fancy, polite way of saying you’re going to have to install your own radio.
One guy is out here building Potemkin villages.

The Russian government and their statistical agencies have gone extremely limited with the economic data they actually release. Since Switzerland is basically viewed as an enemy state in Russia now, half their websites are impossible to even access. "You just can't rely on the handful of figures that still trickle out," says Marcus Keupp, a lecturer at West Point. Most of the numbers are being manipulated—it’s the classic Soviet playbook—building Potemkin villages to hide the reality.
Subscription despite Western sanctions—so, why is the ruble holding up so strong?

Some people look at a massive trade surplus and a strong currency as proof that international sanctions aren't doing a thing. Honestly? They couldn't be more wrong. Sure, Russia is still pulling in huge amounts of cash from oil and gas exports—which are barely touched by sanctions—but the real issue is that actually getting things *into* the country has become a nightmare because of them.

The drop in import tariff revenue tells you everything you need to know about how sanctions are actually working—they were down 43 percent in April compared to last year. If you look at export data from 54 different countries—which accounted for roughly 90 percent of all Russian imports back in 2021—the scale of the problem becomes pretty obvious. Since the invasion of Ukraine, exports from countries that signed onto the sanctions have plummeted by an average of 60 percent, according to the Peterson Institute.

It’s interesting, though—exports from other countries that aren't even part of the sanctions have also dropped by 40 percent. Apparently, they either don't want to, or just can't, fill the void left behind by the Western sanctions.

Even Chinese exports to Russia have tanked—down 38 percent compared to the second half of last year—despite Xi Jinping’s big claims that cooperation with Putin "has no limits."
The tariffs aren't what's driving this slump—I mean, total Chinese exports only dipped by about 8 percent.

It looks like a lot of Chinese exporters aren't willing to risk their relationship with the US just to help bypass sanctions. Even Apple’s rival, Huawei—which is already on a US blacklist—has pulled back its operations in Russia. Even China's own Unionpay, which was supposed to step in with credit cards to replace Mastercard and Visa in Russia, is refusing to work with sanctioned Russian banks.

The pandemic proved that missing just one tiny component can grind an entire assembly line to a halt. Honestly, the current struggles within Russian industry shouldn't come as any shock to anyone. Take the new Ford F-150—it’s basically a perfect example of what's actually happening on the ground in Russia right now, and just how much damage those sanctions are really doing.

Putin is dreaming about replacing imports.

Even in the oil and gas industry, Russia relies heavily on Western tech. Major players like Shell, BP, and ExxonMobil have already announced their exits—walking away from joint ventures with Gazprom and Rosneft and turning their backs on projects worth billions. Basically, we’re looking at a massive shortage of tech, gear, and actual experts needed for production and refineries. Long term—this is going to tank energy revenues.

Nowatek—the biggest private energy player in the game—is about to wrap up its first LNG plant. But here’s the kicker: without the right technical gear from the West, they're basically stuck. They can't even get their second facility off the ground, which is currently sitting at only 40 percent completion.

Russia has been running an import substitution strategy for years now—basically trying to swap out foreign goods for their own stuff so they don't have to rely on anyone else. That’s just an old Russian dream—something Putin has been pushing incredibly hard. But let's be real—Russian industry has never exactly been anyone's crowning achievement."That's just how it is," says Marcus Keupp.

That Czech tractor has gone full Russian.

There have been cases where Western products ended up getting slapped with Russian labels. Take that Czech Zetor Forterra 135 tractor—as noted by Russian historian Kamil Galeev. Basically, a factory over there just bought the complete kits, put them together, and sold them off as if they were homegrown Russian tractors.

Public staging has always been a massive part of Russian history. Marcus Keupp said it best: "The Tsars did it, then the Soviets, and now it's Putin. A lot of people in the West are actually impressed by it—but you have to look behind the curtain to see what’s really going on."

The fallout is only just starting to surface. "Right now, you're mostly just surviving on whatever you've got left—but every single day gets harder. Every day, some little part of you just stops working, and there’s no replacement coming," says Keupp. — It’s a slow-motion collapse.

Companies that can't keep production lines moving because they're short on parts—it's a mess—are basically forcing their workers onto reduced hours or even mandatory furloughs.Just like what happened with the Chevrolet back in May—some companies are either cutting pay or just freezing it altogether.

Real wages are tanking.

Real wages in Russia are taking a hit thanks to skyrocketing inflation—we saw annual inflation climb past 17 percent in May. Back in April, they already dropped by 7.2 percent. The national Center for Strategic Studies is predicting that unemployment rates are going to take a serious dive across most of the country by the end of 2022.

Production shutdowns, shrinking real wages, and a bleak job market are absolutely killing consumer spending. In May, washing machine sales tanked—down 60 percent compared to the same month last year. Even worse, car sales plummeted by 84 percent.

Look at how much consumption has dropped—just check the sales tax revenue. In April, it was only half as much as it was this time last year.

Between a sudden drop in sales tax and customs revenue combined with skyrocketing expenses, the federal budget hit a deficit this April. It’s basically made the Treasury way too dependent on oil and gas taxes and fees—it's getting a bit sketchy. Their share of total revenue spiked to a record 63 percent—compared to just 28 percent back in 2020 and 36 percent in 2021.

If you want to support an economy and a population struggling with high inflation, the government basically has to bankroll massive relief packages. According to Treasury Secretary Anton Siluanov, they’re burning through about $160 billion this year—based on pre-war exchange rates—to keep things afloat. That's roughly 8 trillion rubles.

That’s the backstory behind why they scrapped that dividend for the state-owned gas giant—the first time something like this has happened since 1998. The company was actually looking to dish out a record-breaking dividend, but the government stepped in on Thursday and used its majority vote to shut it down. Turns out, they’re desperate for cash—they need the money, especially with those looming tax hikes hitting the energy sector.


Sanctions don't end wars.
Subscription fees are still climbing—even with billions pouring in from oil and gas. Honestly, it’s no wonder Russia is staring down a national bankruptcy.

On Monday, Russia paid off its foreign sovereign bonds for the first time since the Bolshevik Revolution back in 1917. Honestly, I don't see much of a short-term impact—the country is basically locked out of international capital markets anyway thanks to all those sanctions, and they aren't exactly sweating credit lines given how much they're raking in from energy prices. But long-term? That’s a different story entirely.

"That’s just how sanctions work—they hit the target economy hard with massive costs. But give them some time; they're going to need it to get back on their feet," says Marcus Keupp.

There’s also been some recent skepticism regarding sanctions—mostly because people seem to have these totally unrealistic expectations about how much they actually dent Russia's war machine. "The idea that sanctions alone would just end the war has always been a flawed assumption," says Keupp. "If this conflict wraps up, it'll be for purely military reasons."

The whole point of these sanctions is to cut Russia off from the modern global economy. And honestly? It worked. According to Keupp, the long-term fallout for Russia is going to be massive. Even the headline above the latest economic report in Thursday's Wall Street Journal puts it bluntly: "The fall is underway."
Amanda Flores88 Amanda Flores88 Active Member
89 messages
joined May 2023
#5555 ·
silentnomad7 said:But honestly, capitalism always finds a way to pivot! Look at what's happening right now in the European Union—they're already swapping out Russian gas and oil for different sources. It's all about adaptation. Even if trade with China were to completely dry up, capital would simply flow back into the European Union to open up new factories, because there's plenty of profit to be made right here...

Honestly, this is a solid solution—not just for now, but for widespread use too. 😁
Amanda Flores88 Amanda Flores88 Active Member
89 messages
joined May 2023
#5556 ·
casualtiger2 said:The fallout from the sanctions on Russia—it’s happening. The fall is coming.

The new Chevrolet Grant recently rolled off the assembly line at the Automotive plant. According to their press release, they’re leaning into some extra bells and whistles—think color-matched door panels, heated mirrors, and electric adjustments. The factory over in Tolyati actually shut down after Ford pulled out of the country due to sanctions, eventually handing the keys over to the Russian government.

Media outlets are claiming that Vladimir Putin's Russia can thrive without the West—even with all those sanctions in place. Honestly? The PR spin is just ignoring everything missing from their latest Chevrolet—things like anti-lock brakes, airbags, seatbelt pretensioners, electronic stability control, or even an emergency call system.

That 1.6-liter naturally aspirated engine pumping out 90 HP? Yeah, it doesn't even touch the EPA Tier 3 standards anymore—it’s basically stuck in 1996 territory, barely meeting EPA Tier 1 levels. To make matters worse, the government actually lowered the testing requirements just so they could get the car registered. Typical. When Ali Grant says a car is "multimedia ready"—it’s really just a fancy, polite way of saying you’re going to have to install your own radio.
One guy is out here building Potemkin villages.

The Russian government and their statistical agencies have gone extremely limited with the economic data they actually release. Since Switzerland is basically viewed as an enemy state in Russia now, half their websites are impossible to even access. "You just can't rely on the handful of figures that still trickle out," says Marcus Keupp, a lecturer at West Point. Most of the numbers are being manipulated—it’s the classic Soviet playbook—building Potemkin villages to hide the reality.
Subscription despite Western sanctions—so, why is the ruble holding up so strong?

Some people look at a massive trade surplus and a strong currency as proof that international sanctions aren't doing a thing. Honestly? They couldn't be more wrong. Sure, Russia is still pulling in huge amounts of cash from oil and gas exports—which are barely touched by sanctions—but the real issue is that actually getting things *into* the country has become a nightmare because of them.

The drop in import tariff revenue tells you everything you need to know about how sanctions are actually working—they were down 43 percent in April compared to last year. If you look at export data from 54 different countries—which accounted for roughly 90 percent of all Russian imports back in 2021—the scale of the problem becomes pretty obvious. Since the invasion of Ukraine, exports from countries that signed onto the sanctions have plummeted by an average of 60 percent, according to the Peterson Institute.

It’s interesting, though—exports from other countries that aren't even part of the sanctions have also dropped by 40 percent. Apparently, they either don't want to, or just can't, fill the void left behind by the Western sanctions.

Even Chinese exports to Russia have tanked—down 38 percent compared to the second half of last year—despite Xi Jinping’s big claims that cooperation with Putin "has no limits."
The tariffs aren't what's driving this slump—I mean, total Chinese exports only dipped by about 8 percent.

It looks like a lot of Chinese exporters aren't willing to risk their relationship with the US just to help bypass sanctions. Even Apple’s rival, Huawei—which is already on a US blacklist—has pulled back its operations in Russia. Even China's own Unionpay, which was supposed to step in with credit cards to replace Mastercard and Visa in Russia, is refusing to work with sanctioned Russian banks.

The pandemic proved that missing just one tiny component can grind an entire assembly line to a halt. Honestly, the current struggles within Russian industry shouldn't come as any shock to anyone. Take the new Ford F-150—it’s basically a perfect example of what's actually happening on the ground in Russia right now, and just how much damage those sanctions are really doing.

Putin is dreaming about replacing imports.

Even in the oil and gas industry, Russia relies heavily on Western tech. Major players like Shell, BP, and ExxonMobil have already announced their exits—walking away from joint ventures with Gazprom and Rosneft and turning their backs on projects worth billions. Basically, we’re looking at a massive shortage of tech, gear, and actual experts needed for production and refineries. Long term—this is going to tank energy revenues.

Nowatek—the biggest private energy player in the game—is about to wrap up its first LNG plant. But here’s the kicker: without the right technical gear from the West, they're basically stuck. They can't even get their second facility off the ground, which is currently sitting at only 40 percent completion.

Russia has been running an import substitution strategy for years now—basically trying to swap out foreign goods for their own stuff so they don't have to rely on anyone else. That’s just an old Russian dream—something Putin has been pushing incredibly hard. But let's be real—Russian industry has never exactly been anyone's crowning achievement."That's just how it is," says Marcus Keupp.

That Czech tractor has gone full Russian.

There have been cases where Western products ended up getting slapped with Russian labels. Take that Czech Zetor Forterra 135 tractor—as noted by Russian historian Kamil Galeev. Basically, a factory over there just bought the complete kits, put them together, and sold them off as if they were homegrown Russian tractors.

Public staging has always been a massive part of Russian history. Marcus Keupp said it best: "The Tsars did it, then the Soviets, and now it's Putin. A lot of people in the West are actually impressed by it—but you have to look behind the curtain to see what’s really going on."

The fallout is only just starting to surface. "Right now, you're mostly just surviving on whatever you've got left—but every single day gets harder. Every day, some little part of you just stops working, and there’s no replacement coming," says Keupp. — It’s a slow-motion collapse.

Companies that can't keep production lines moving because they're short on parts—it's a mess—are basically forcing their workers onto reduced hours or even mandatory furloughs.Just like what happened with the Chevrolet back in May—some companies are either cutting pay or just freezing it altogether.

Real wages are tanking.

Real wages in Russia are taking a hit thanks to skyrocketing inflation—we saw annual inflation climb past 17 percent in May. Back in April, they already dropped by 7.2 percent. The national Center for Strategic Studies is predicting that unemployment rates are going to take a serious dive across most of the country by the end of 2022.

Production shutdowns, shrinking real wages, and a bleak job market are absolutely killing consumer spending. In May, washing machine sales tanked—down 60 percent compared to the same month last year. Even worse, car sales plummeted by 84 percent.

Look at how much consumption has dropped—just check the sales tax revenue. In April, it was only half as much as it was this time last year.

Between a sudden drop in sales tax and customs revenue combined with skyrocketing expenses, the federal budget hit a deficit this April. It’s basically made the Treasury way too dependent on oil and gas taxes and fees—it's getting a bit sketchy. Their share of total revenue spiked to a record 63 percent—compared to just 28 percent back in 2020 and 36 percent in 2021.

If you want to support an economy and a population struggling with high inflation, the government basically has to bankroll massive relief packages. According to Treasury Secretary Anton Siluanov, they’re burning through about $160 billion this year—based on pre-war exchange rates—to keep things afloat. That's roughly 8 trillion rubles.

That’s the backstory behind why they scrapped that dividend for the state-owned gas giant—the first time something like this has happened since 1998. The company was actually looking to dish out a record-breaking dividend, but the government stepped in on Thursday and used its majority vote to shut it down. Turns out, they’re desperate for cash—they need the money, especially with those looming tax hikes hitting the energy sector.


Sanctions don't end wars.
Subscription fees are still climbing—even with billions pouring in from oil and gas. Honestly, it’s no wonder Russia is staring down a national bankruptcy.

On Monday, Russia paid off its foreign sovereign bonds for the first time since the Bolshevik Revolution back in 1917. Honestly, I don't see much of a short-term impact—the country is basically locked out of international capital markets anyway thanks to all those sanctions, and they aren't exactly sweating credit lines given how much they're raking in from energy prices. But long-term? That’s a different story entirely.

"That’s just how sanctions work—they hit the target economy hard with massive costs. But give them some time; they're going to need it to get back on their feet," says Marcus Keupp.

There’s also been some recent skepticism regarding sanctions—mostly because people seem to have these totally unrealistic expectations about how much they actually dent Russia's war machine. "The idea that sanctions alone would just end the war has always been a flawed assumption," says Keupp. "If this conflict wraps up, it'll be for purely military reasons."

The whole point of these sanctions is to cut Russia off from the modern global economy. And honestly? It worked. According to Keupp, the long-term fallout for Russia is going to be massive. Even the headline above the latest economic report in Thursday's Wall Street Journal puts it bluntly: "The fall is underway."

Reminds me of that old story about a guy having trouble with his neighbor—he prays for help, and some entity tells him he can have whatever he wants, but his neighbor gets twice as much.
So at first, the guy wishes for all the good stuff—wealth, happiness, health—but then he realizes his neighbor is getting double everything. He starts losing his mind. Finally, he thinks, "Fine, I'll wish for bad luck, poverty, and injury"—because if he hits rock bottom, at least his neighbor will be even worse off.
brightheron64 brightheron64 Regular
408 messages
joined Apr 2016
#5557 ·
Bryan Booth82 said:You tried to write a justification for the Russian aggression against Ukraine...(three dots)...(again), but you failed miserably, because what you said makes absolutely zero sense.

lp

Of course the Russian aggression against Ukraine is a massive disaster. But you're completely ignoring the fact that this kind of "disaster" is basically an inherent part of our existence...

Look, let's just (for a second) look past today... and try to justify most of the wars fought from '45 until now. Is that more whataboutism? Does anyone actually give a damn about the Maghreb, Indochina, the Mediterranean, Indonesia, the Middle East, or Africa...? Are you looking for justifications for those too?
Honestly, in a few years, we’ll probably see this exact same attitude (regardless of how things turn out) regarding the situation in Ukraine. If it weren't for modern communication technology, specifically our local hunger for energy... it would just be another footnote in human history...

"It's Beyond my Controll" as John Malkovich says in "Dangerous Liaisons>
Gerald Torres84 Gerald Torres84 Active Member
118 messages
joined Oct 2015
#5558 ·
Nancy Gomez26 said:The actual dilemma is whether it is better to be under a mountain of debt—or under someone else's boot. Looking at the historical patterns we see in Ukraine, it seems to me that being burdened by credit is the far superior choice this time around; it’s much cheaper for a nation. This is especially true when that foreign boot comes with a pre-packaged guarantee of total erasure. After all, Vladimir Putin has already been quite generous in announcing his "final solution" for them. If I were in their shoes, it would be a complete no-brainer. But those decisions belong solely to them—and it appears they made their choice when the president famously declared he didn't need an escape vehicle, just more ammo. Or perhaps it was when they first elected that leader. We are merely here to provide the support while someone carries out their imagined "final solutions" in the 21st century. We have seen this play out before, and we know exactly where it ends. It is better to stop it at the starting line, though reacting this late means things have already spiraled too far.

Regarding synthetic fertilizers—there are massive shifts happening in modern science and technology. We are only just beginning to grasp how little we truly understand about soil and the intricate processes within such a complex system. But that is a conversation for another time....

Of course the Ukrainians will decide for themselves; they aren't going to let Putk force them into a situation just because some Gambler has enough cash to fuel a ship.
He is complaining because oil prices are high, while the Ukrainians are fighting for their nation and their very lives. Everyone has their own priorities.
Bryan Booth82 Bryan Booth82 Regular
483 messages
joined Feb 2024
#5559 ·
brightheron64 said:Of course the Russian aggression against Ukraine is a massive disaster. But you're completely ignoring the fact that this kind of "disaster" is basically an inherent part of our existence...

Look, let's just (for a second) look past today... and try to justify most of the wars fought from '45 until now. Is that more whataboutism? Does anyone actually give a damn about the Maghreb, Indochina, the Mediterranean, Indonesia, the Middle East, or Africa...? Are you looking for justifications for those too?
Honestly, in a few years, we’ll probably see this exact same attitude (regardless of how things turn out) regarding the situation in Ukraine. If it weren't for modern communication technology, specifically our local hunger for energy... it would just be another footnote in human history...

"It's Beyond my Controll" as John Malkovich says in "Dangerous Liaisons>

Why are you taking this so far? Why didn't you pick an example closer to home?
Think about it—why were guys from Miami or Seattle on the front lines defending Memphis or San Francisco?

Maybe Mexico wouldn't have cared about those specific parts of the country... they could have just kept living off tourism in Key West or Newport Beach. Screw the US, let them deal with some place like Memphis.

Would Mexicans have ever set up shop near San Diego or Indianapolis??
Would Russians have ever stood on the border....

Oh, right—please, by all means, give us some justifications regarding Indochina and colonialism from two hundred years ago.
Best regards,
brightheron64 brightheron64 Regular
408 messages
joined Apr 2016
#5560 ·
Bryan Booth82 said:Why are you taking this so far? Why didn't you pick an example closer to home?
Think about it—why were guys from Miami or Seattle on the front lines defending Memphis or San Francisco?

Maybe Mexico wouldn't have cared about those specific parts of the country... they could have just kept living off tourism in Key West or Newport Beach. Screw the US, let them deal with some place like Memphis.

Would Mexicans have ever set up shop near San Diego or Indianapolis??
Would Russians have ever stood on the border....

Oh, right—please, by all means, give us some justifications regarding Indochina and colonialism from two hundred years ago.
Best regards,


Those are nothing but insinuations where you're basically mixing apples and oranges.

Come on, let’s look at just one very realistic detail of our alternative history, if we follow your logic: Mexicans enthusiastically accepted the Plan Marshall.

And then what?
Thankfully they didn't, but man, what if they had???
So, what happens next?

Just imagine if NATO said, "enough of this nonsense," and decided to recognize the status quo as of June 30, 2022.?

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