Sanctions on Russia

Don't buy it. You'll help lower the demand and drive the price down for everyone else.

Price is really just whatever people are willing to cough up.

Plus, that whole "buy American" thing is basically just a clever marketing gimmick—you pay a premium for local goods because you're essentially paying for a little slice of national pride along with it.

analogbear5 said:Don't buy it. You'll help lower the demand and drive the price down for everyone else.

Price is really just whatever people are willing to cough up.

Plus, that whole "buy American" thing is basically just a clever marketing gimmick—you pay a premium for local goods because you're essentially paying for a little slice of national pride along with it.

It’s a particularly effective trick when you think you're supporting local industry, only to find the fine print stating it was manufactured for an American distributor located halfway across the globe.

Nancy Gomez26 said:It’s a particularly effective trick when you think you're supporting local industry, only to find the fine print stating it was manufactured for an American distributor located halfway across the globe.

Not that it matters much, since everything is owned by some massive foreign conglomerate anyway.

goldenowl73 said:Just some down-to-earth, everyday shopping stuff for you guys. This blogger from Russia decided to grab a full basket of the exact same products—nothing on sale, just standard shelf prices—across Belarus, Russia, Germany, and Poland to see how the costs stacked up.

In Belarus, he spent €176.19;
Over in Poland, it was only €97.83;
Germany came in at €119.98;
But man, in Russia, the total hit €199.54.

https://twitter.com/ru2ch/status/156...wOneAIXMzpSVuA

It’s actually quite fascinating to think that Western goods, which are becoming so much harder to import into Russia lately, end up being more expensive than in places where they flow in easily... who would have guessed such a thing... 🤔

Oh, and if you look at the first comment, there's already a bit of a heated debate breaking out over the price of a loaf of bread.

I wonder if this is some kind of standardized consumer basket used to compare the cost of living across different parts of the world?

Then again, you also have to consider the exchange rate issue... I mean, do they use the official exchange rate when calculating these prices while ignoring it for everything else because it feels artificial? It wouldn't be hard to run into some serious mathematical dissonance that way...

It really is a rather instructive little comparison, isn't it... 🙄

Yeah. With the current exchange rate, importing stuff gets cheaper while exporting becomes less profitable. Basically—you just need fewer dollars to grab the same amount of Euros.

quietviper0 said:It’s actually quite fascinating to think that Western goods, which are becoming so much harder to import into Russia lately, end up being more expensive than in places where they flow in easily... who would have guessed such a thing... 🤔

Oh, and if you look at the first comment, there's already a bit of a heated debate breaking out over the price of a loaf of bread.

I wonder if this is some kind of standardized consumer basket used to compare the cost of living across different parts of the world?

Then again, you also have to consider the exchange rate issue... I mean, do they use the official exchange rate when calculating these prices while ignoring it for everything else because it feels artificial? It wouldn't be hard to run into some serious mathematical dissonance that way...

It really is a rather instructive little comparison, isn't it... 🙄

Comparisons like this don't even really warrant a response, but some people find them to be a very "appealing" indicator of the supposed decline in Russian standards. In reality, the Ruble has strengthened immensely due to measures taken by the Russian CB, so they are actually working to weaken the currency now because a strong Ruble hurts their exports.
The only fair comparison would be seeing how much one can actually buy with an average salary in the US,
but then the picture wouldn't look quite so "appealing."
When you look at which companies left Russia due to sanctions, the drop in living standards is far less significant than suggested; instead of the expected 10% drop, the economy fell by 5%, which is similar to the contraction seen in the European economy.
But let them keep writing their panegyrics about sanctions so that the local Anglophiles don't get too unsettled or excited. ☕

If the official exchange rate were truly favorable, there would be no reason for a "black market" to exist, especially if you could buy more Euros with your Rubles at a bank than you could on the street.
Russia maintains a surplus in its foreign trade, so there is simply no necessity for black-market currency trading.

Many people who might have been spending Euros on the Atlantic coast this summer were actually spending Rubles at Russian resorts, or using their local currencies in countries that didn't implement any sanctions.

urbanotter said:Comparisons like this don't even really warrant a response, but some people find them to be a very "appealing" indicator of the supposed decline in Russian standards. In reality, the Ruble has strengthened immensely due to measures taken by the Russian CB, so they are actually working to weaken the currency now because a strong Ruble hurts their exports.
The only fair comparison would be seeing how much one can actually buy with an average salary in the US,
but then the picture wouldn't look quite so "appealing."
When you look at which companies left Russia due to sanctions, the drop in living standards is far less significant than suggested; instead of the expected 10% drop, the economy fell by 5%, which is similar to the contraction seen in the European economy.
But let them keep writing their panegyrics about sanctions so that the local Anglophiles don't get too unsettled or excited. ☕

If the official exchange rate were truly favorable, there would be no reason for a "black market" to exist, especially if you could buy more Euros with your Rubles at a bank than you could on the street.
Russia maintains a surplus in its foreign trade, so there is simply no necessity for black-market currency trading.

Many people who might have been spending Euros on the Atlantic coast this summer were actually spending Rubles at Russian resorts, or using their local currencies in countries that didn't implement any sanctions.

What's interesting here is that I don't see you providing any "actual" data regarding the rise in living standards for Russian citizens following the sanctions. I'm sure such data exists, but I don't see you sharing anything other than spitting on every piece of information that contradicts your personal beliefs.

And the Russian ruble is garbage because it isn't on a free market. You can't freely buy or sell the currency. Its value doesn't mean anything other than being able to say the ruble is "strong."

Sanctions work. If they didn't, we wouldn't need an army of posters trying to convince us everything is fine.

quietviper0 said:It’s actually quite fascinating to think that Western goods, which are becoming so much harder to import into Russia lately, end up being more expensive than in places where they flow in easily... who would have guessed such a thing... 🤔

Oh, and if you look at the first comment, there's already a bit of a heated debate breaking out over the price of a loaf of bread.

I wonder if this is some kind of standardized consumer basket used to compare the cost of living across different parts of the world?

Then again, you also have to consider the exchange rate issue... I mean, do they use the official exchange rate when calculating these prices while ignoring it for everything else because it feels artificial? It wouldn't be hard to run into some serious mathematical dissonance that way...

It really is a rather instructive little comparison, isn't it... 🙄

Extremely educational comparison, as it demonstrates the direct impact of sanctions and Russian counter-measures.
Should you be stuffing things into a basket that aren't even available in other countries? How could someone from America, for instance, know what the prices are over there? 🤦

How many thousands—maybe even tens of thousands—of Euros did those geniuses playing the Ruble exchange rate actually pocket?
Does anyone out there have a bank statement or an exchange receipt from Moscow to brag about? Honestly, it doesn't even have to be from Moscow, just some other city in Russia...

urbanotter said:Comparisons like this don't even really warrant a response, but some people find them to be a very "appealing" indicator of the supposed decline in Russian standards. In reality, the Ruble has strengthened immensely due to measures taken by the Russian CB, so they are actually working to weaken the currency now because a strong Ruble hurts their exports.
The only fair comparison would be seeing how much one can actually buy with an average salary in the US,
but then the picture wouldn't look quite so "appealing."
When you look at which companies left Russia due to sanctions, the drop in living standards is far less significant than suggested; instead of the expected 10% drop, the economy fell by 5%, which is similar to the contraction seen in the European economy.
But let them keep writing their panegyrics about sanctions so that the local Anglophiles don't get too unsettled or excited. ☕

If the official exchange rate were truly favorable, there would be no reason for a "black market" to exist, especially if you could buy more Euros with your Rubles at a bank than you could on the street.
Russia maintains a surplus in its foreign trade, so there is simply no necessity for black-market currency trading.

Many people who might have been spending Euros on the Atlantic coast this summer were actually spending Rubles at Russian resorts, or using their local currencies in countries that didn't implement any sanctions.

The projections show the US economy growing by 2.6% this year.
Where on earth are you getting this nonsense about a 4% drop from?
https://www.businesseurope.eu/public...fficult-period

urbanotter said:Comparisons like this don't even really warrant a response, but some people find them to be a very "appealing" indicator of the supposed decline in Russian standards. In reality, the Ruble has strengthened immensely due to measures taken by the Russian CB, so they are actually working to weaken the currency now because a strong Ruble hurts their exports.
The only fair comparison would be seeing how much one can actually buy with an average salary in the US,
but then the picture wouldn't look quite so "appealing."
When you look at which companies left Russia due to sanctions, the drop in living standards is far less significant than suggested; instead of the expected 10% drop, the economy fell by 5%, which is similar to the contraction seen in the European economy.
But let them keep writing their panegyrics about sanctions so that the local Anglophiles don't get too unsettled or excited. ☕

If the official exchange rate were truly favorable, there would be no reason for a "black market" to exist, especially if you could buy more Euros with your Rubles at a bank than you could on the street.
Russia maintains a surplus in its foreign trade, so there is simply no necessity for black-market currency trading.

Many people who might have been spending Euros on the Atlantic coast this summer were actually spending Rubles at Russian resorts, or using their local currencies in countries that didn't implement any sanctions.

I was chatting with the director of the tourism board for one of our major vacation spots recently, and she told me everything is basically booked solid.
Where exactly are you supposed to put those Russians?
She said there are maybe a handful of apartments or hotel rooms empty out of thousands.

It took me all of thirty seconds to look this up—back in 2019, Russians accounted for a mere 0.91% of overnight stays in the US.
For context, travelers from Canada sat at 2.60%.

The ruble has actually gained some ground because those sanctions have left them with nothing to import—basically, Russian consumer demand is cratering. That’s hardly a victory lap for the Russians, is it? Besides, since the ruble isn't a freely convertible currency, that exchange rate doesn't really carry much weight in the grand scheme of things anyway.

Jesse Hughes6 said:It took me all of thirty seconds to look this up—back in 2019, Russians accounted for a mere 0.91% of overnight stays in the US.
For context, travelers from Canada sat at 2.60%.

The only metric that truly matters here is how much money they actually spent. Either group could have easily taken up 100% of the overnight stays, but what really counts is how much cash was left in the local piggy bank...

I might be wrong on this, but I firmly believe that those 0.91% of Russian tourists left behind significantly more wealth than the 2.6% coming from Canada. Just speaking from personal observation—knowing people who run properties near the border with Canada—the latter group is often viewed as more of a burden, almost like they're taxing resources without giving back enough...

Every news outlet was buzzing about David Beckham going on vacation, and even if you call it just pure marketing, the bottom line is how much dough he pumped into the US economy. What good is a massive yacht belonging to someone like Bill Gates cruising the Atlantic if he already owns everything on that boat and ends up not spending a single cent on even the smallest local goods? It’s no different from those cruise ship pests, a phenomenon I would personally vote to wipe off our coasts entirely...

urbanotter said:Comparisons like this don't even really warrant a response, but some people find them to be a very "appealing" indicator of the supposed decline in Russian standards. In reality, the Ruble has strengthened immensely due to measures taken by the Russian CB, so they are actually working to weaken the currency now because a strong Ruble hurts their exports.
The only fair comparison would be seeing how much one can actually buy with an average salary in the US,
but then the picture wouldn't look quite so "appealing."
When you look at which companies left Russia due to sanctions, the drop in living standards is far less significant than suggested; instead of the expected 10% drop, the economy fell by 5%, which is similar to the contraction seen in the European economy.
But let them keep writing their panegyrics about sanctions so that the local Anglophiles don't get too unsettled or excited. ☕

If the official exchange rate were truly favorable, there would be no reason for a "black market" to exist, especially if you could buy more Euros with your Rubles at a bank than you could on the street.
Russia maintains a surplus in its foreign trade, so there is simply no necessity for black-market currency trading.

Many people who might have been spending Euros on the Atlantic coast this summer were actually spending Rubles at Russian resorts, or using their local currencies in countries that didn't implement any sanctions.

Michael Jordan, the ruble rate is a total sham. You can't just freely swap rubles for foreign currency in Russia.
Plus, the Russian economy only dropped 4%—but that's measured in dollars. For example, if GDP per capita was $100 before the invasion and it's $96 now... well, that pre-invasion number used the old rate, and this one uses the new one. At 60 rubles to the dollar, that's a 4% drop. Just imagine if the ruble were actually free on the market; the rate would be over 150 to the dollar. How massive would that drop look then?

To put it simply, say I make $33 a month, which is roughly $14. If the local currency becomes trash, I'm still making $33 a month. How many dollars is that? If it helps you wrap your head around it, try converting it to pesos instead of dollars.

quietviper0 said:It’s actually quite fascinating to think that Western goods, which are becoming so much harder to import into Russia lately, end up being more expensive than in places where they flow in easily... who would have guessed such a thing... 🤔

Oh, and if you look at the first comment, there's already a bit of a heated debate breaking out over the price of a loaf of bread.

I wonder if this is some kind of standardized consumer basket used to compare the cost of living across different parts of the world?

Then again, you also have to consider the exchange rate issue... I mean, do they use the official exchange rate when calculating these prices while ignoring it for everything else because it feels artificial? It wouldn't be hard to run into some serious mathematical dissonance that way...

It really is a rather instructive little comparison, isn't it... 🙄

Standardized? The first thing that made me doubt the bias was the price of salmon... since when is salmon in a "consumer basket"? Then Nutella in a basket... a little reality check wouldn't hurt... beer...

Funny how he took half a liter of Paulaner in a can for Belarus and half a liter in a glass bottle for Poland... as if people in Belarus and Russia don't have their own beer. Not to mention the price difference between a glass bottle and a can.

Anyway, a friend was in the States and told me Budweiser is one of the cheaper ones, while Mexican beers are the most expensive.

gentlestag15 said:The projections show the US economy growing by 2.6% this year.
Where on earth are you getting this nonsense about a 4% drop from?
https://www.businesseurope.eu/public...fficult-period

I was chatting with the director of the tourism board for one of our major vacation spots recently, and she told me everything is basically booked solid.
Where exactly are you supposed to put those Russians?
She said there are maybe a handful of apartments or hotel rooms empty out of thousands.

Yeah, obviously talking out of his ass. I work for one of our massive domestic tourism giants and we're packed, and we don't have any Russians. Even if we had double the capacity, we'd still be full without them.

Nathan Thomas12 said:Michael Jordan, the ruble rate is a total sham. You can't just freely swap rubles for foreign currency in Russia.
Plus, the Russian economy only dropped 4%—but that's measured in dollars. For example, if GDP per capita was $100 before the invasion and it's $96 now... well, that pre-invasion number used the old rate, and this one uses the new one. At 60 rubles to the dollar, that's a 4% drop. Just imagine if the ruble were actually free on the market; the rate would be over 150 to the dollar. How massive would that drop look then?

To put it simply, say I make $33 a month, which is roughly $14. If the local currency becomes trash, I'm still making $33 a month. How many dollars is that? If it helps you wrap your head around it, try converting it to pesos instead of dollars.

So, before the invasion, it was 80 RUB to the USD. Let's say GDP per capita was $10,000 and now it's $9,600. That $10,000 used to be 800,000 RUB. Now, that $9,600 is only 576,000 RUB. Measured in rubles, that's a 40% drop. Measured in USD? It's just 4%.

brightheron64 said:The only metric that truly matters here is how much money they actually spent. Either group could have easily taken up 100% of the overnight stays, but what really counts is how much cash was left in the local piggy bank...

I might be wrong on this, but I firmly believe that those 0.91% of Russian tourists left behind significantly more wealth than the 2.6% coming from Canada. Just speaking from personal observation—knowing people who run properties near the border with Canada—the latter group is often viewed as more of a burden, almost like they're taxing resources without giving back enough...

Every news outlet was buzzing about David Beckham going on vacation, and even if you call it just pure marketing, the bottom line is how much dough he pumped into the US economy. What good is a massive yacht belonging to someone like Bill Gates cruising the Atlantic if he already owns everything on that boat and ends up not spending a single cent on even the smallest local goods? It’s no different from those cruise ship pests, a phenomenon I would personally vote to wipe off our coasts entirely...

I agree, though I assume you realize those statistics only count citizens from Canada who were identified using Canadian documents. Given that a massive chunk of these tourists likely shows up with American IDs instead, the actual numbers are probably higher than what's on paper.

brightheron64 said:The only metric that truly matters here is how much money they actually spent. Either group could have easily taken up 100% of the overnight stays, but what really counts is how much cash was left in the local piggy bank...

I might be wrong on this, but I firmly believe that those 0.91% of Russian tourists left behind significantly more wealth than the 2.6% coming from Canada. Just speaking from personal observation—knowing people who run properties near the border with Canada—the latter group is often viewed as more of a burden, almost like they're taxing resources without giving back enough...

Every news outlet was buzzing about David Beckham going on vacation, and even if you call it just pure marketing, the bottom line is how much dough he pumped into the US economy. What good is a massive yacht belonging to someone like Bill Gates cruising the Atlantic if he already owns everything on that boat and ends up not spending a single cent on even the smallest local goods? It’s no different from those cruise ship pests, a phenomenon I would personally vote to wipe off our coasts entirely...

That’s possible, I suppose, but that’s just your take on it. It’s the same logic applied to the David Beckham story below. Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't.
If you consider that the average Russian's purchasing power that year was roughly double that of an average citizen from Canada, and there were three times as many of them, I’d say my math lands somewhere in that ballpark. Meanwhile, the latter group is apparently viewed by some as a way of "downplaying resources."

What’s my point? We’ll survive just fine without any Russians during those three months of peak tourism.
In fact, I’d go as far as to say their absence won't have any impact at all, which I suspect this year's data will confirm.

brightheron64 said:The only metric that truly matters here is how much money they actually spent. Either group could have easily taken up 100% of the overnight stays, but what really counts is how much cash was left in the local piggy bank...

I might be wrong on this, but I firmly believe that those 0.91% of Russian tourists left behind significantly more wealth than the 2.6% coming from Canada. Just speaking from personal observation—knowing people who run properties near the border with Canada—the latter group is often viewed as more of a burden, almost like they're taxing resources without giving back enough...

Every news outlet was buzzing about David Beckham going on vacation, and even if you call it just pure marketing, the bottom line is how much dough he pumped into the US economy. What good is a massive yacht belonging to someone like Bill Gates cruising the Atlantic if he already owns everything on that boat and ends up not spending a single cent on even the smallest local goods? It’s no different from those cruise ship pests, a phenomenon I would personally vote to wipe off our coasts entirely...

brightheron64 said:The only metric that truly matters here is how much money they actually spent. Either group could have easily taken up 100% of the overnight stays, but what really counts is how much cash was left in the local piggy bank...

I might be wrong on this, but I firmly believe that those 0.91% of Russian tourists left behind significantly more wealth than the 2.6% coming from Canada. Just speaking from personal observation—knowing people who run properties near the border with Canada—the latter group is often viewed as more of a burden, almost like they're taxing resources without giving back enough...

Every news outlet was buzzing about David Beckham going on vacation, and even if you call it just pure marketing, the bottom line is how much dough he pumped into the US economy. What good is a massive yacht belonging to someone like Bill Gates cruising the Atlantic if he already owns everything on that boat and ends up not spending a single cent on even the smallest local goods? It’s no different from those cruise ship pests, a phenomenon I would personally vote to wipe off our coasts entirely...

There's a word for "whoever pays me more, I like them more."

I was just sitting here thinking about how much things seem to be shifting lately, and it really does make you wonder where everything is heading... I mean, when you look at the way the economy is moving and how everyone seems to be reacting to the latest news out of Washington, it feels like we're constantly on the edge of something significant, doesn't it? It’s almost like watching a slow-motion movie where you know the climax is coming, but you're just waiting for the director to finally call "cut"... anyway, I suppose I’m getting ahead of myself, but there's just something about this particular moment in history that feels uniquely heavy yet strangely full of potential if we can just navigate it correctly... As if I could just leave that hanging there without adding a bit more context... because you know me, I can't help but wander down a few side streets before I get to the point... so, what was it that was being said...
This is such an incredibly insightful comparison, really, because it lays out exactly how much of an impact those sanctions and the Russian countermeasures actually have on the ground...
I mean, does it even make sense to pack your shopping cart full of things you can’t find anywhere else? If that's the case, how would someone, say, an American living in a different part of the world, even begin to gauge what the local prices are like over there... 🤦

I suppose one should probably start by figuring out exactly what a single household or an individual actually needs just to get by, and then try to weigh those essential living costs against whatever salary they’re actually bringing home... though that might be asking a bit much from the professional Twitter crowd, wouldn't you agree? They seem far more interested in chasing clicks and likes, picking up engagement on anything they post as long as it carries that certain scent of sensationalism and the illusion of being groundbreaking...

Whether we're talking about a bottle of sol de Chile wine, a cold Paulaner beer, a tub of Nutella, or even just grabbing some Barilla pasta, a bag of Lay's chips, or a bar of Milka chocolate... and honestly, even things like high-end salmon or premium laundry detergent like Tide, none of these brands should ever be used as a real yardstick for measuring someone's quality of life or their actual purchasing power... because if these specific items happen to be out of stock or marked up with ridiculous prices in certain areas, they are incredibly easy to swap out for a billion other alternatives without losing an ounce of actual well-being or comfort in your daily routine... it really just comes down to the fact that these luxury labels don't define our standard of living at all...

And there’s another absolutely fascinating layer to this whole "comparison" they're trying to make, which is that he hasn't even actually set foot in Russia, but instead has just been scrolling through various online retailers to gather his data...

Well, you actually pointed out in your previous post that the ruble is absolute garbage, and I certainly wouldn't be dreaming of converting their wages into dollars using some official government exchange rate... so I'm wondering why, in this particular comparison, you're making the price seem relevant by calculating it at 60 rubles to the dollar...