CheckEmoji Community · the emoji forum
🏠 Home 🆕 What's new ❓ Unanswered 🔥 Popular 📡 RSS Members 👥 0 online
log in · register
Home › Society › Politics › War in Ukraine › Sanctions on Russia

Sanctions on Russia

Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 307 views · 9.5K replies

📡 Subscribe to replies

Participants Richard Wilson4velvetcyclist95Jeremy Peterson4silentsurfer3rowdytiger13Carol Newman2William Anderson5Carl Cookfrozencobra50Paul Patel95Michael Davis10Gary WilsonGregory Ramos3slyfox43dustywolf13Tyler Jones6Larry Walker24Ashley Ramirez4Paul Clark80Adam Lee13northernangler8Nancy Ruiz5James Chavez91neonheron9 …
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#7621 ·
Joshua Myers432 said:True, but the reverse holds weight too. They think the "common sense" logic they employ (the East) is fundamentally different from what Western nations use.

I still maintain they hold the upper hand here; in scenarios like this, dictatorial regimes always have an advantage over "democracy," if you can even call our system that.

Do you honestly think another Putin would just sit back and let 70,000 people protest in Moscow, like they might in Prague? Realistically, if 70,000 gathered in Prague, it would be closer to 400,000 in Moscow!

They have the upper hand when it comes to making quick decisions and actually having the breathing room to stick to long-term policies.

The real issues run much deeper—we’re talking systemic corruption, blatant nepotism, and a total lack of accountability for major decisions. On top of that, there's this growing tendency for those at the top to retreat into their own little social and ideological bubbles, which only helps them cling to power longer.

In the end, this conflict has laid everything bare. Based on what we can see from the outside, those early blunders and the total logistical mess point to two things: terrible intelligence and leaders stuck in an echo chamber. Toss in some massive corruption regarding supplies, and you have a recipe for disaster.
boldotter2 boldotter2 Active Member
156 messages
joined Mar 2020
#7622 ·
William Anderson5 said:Russia has played all its cards on destabilizing the European Union's energy sector over the next six months. If that doesn't work—and it won't—they’re finished anyway. They have nothing left to lose. There's no way for them to ever recover from the isolation imposed by the West, and even the pivot toward Asia won't be a quick fix; that shift will take decades, assuming most Russians even stick with it. Most Russians still view themselves as Europeans rather than Asians, so there's a fundamental reluctance to fully embrace an Asian identity. You can't truly become an Asian power when the bulk of your population resides in Europe. Tens of millions of people aren't just going to pack up and move from the European side of Russia to Siberia...

And honestly, the worst part is there isn't even much to gain. Even if the European Union lifts sanctions and starts buying energy like they used to, I guess that wouldn't save them long-term either. It would just drag out their decline.

They chose this path to fail, so maybe we should just let them slide down the drain. No helping hands here—I think we might even need to grease the slide! We can talk once they hit rock bottom.

William Anderson5 said:Russia has played all its cards on destabilizing the European Union's energy sector over the next six months. If that doesn't work—and it won't—they’re finished anyway. They have nothing left to lose. There's no way for them to ever recover from the isolation imposed by the West, and even the pivot toward Asia won't be a quick fix; that shift will take decades, assuming most Russians even stick with it. Most Russians still view themselves as Europeans rather than Asians, so there's a fundamental reluctance to fully embrace an Asian identity. You can't truly become an Asian power when the bulk of your population resides in Europe. Tens of millions of people aren't just going to pack up and move from the European side of Russia to Siberia...

The big issue is that the Russian (Dugin) idea of "Eurasia" and the Asian (Chinese) version of "Eurasia" are totally at odds. They just don't mesh, I guess.

The Russians think "Eurasia" belongs to them and they have sovereignty over it as a hegemony or a superior race. Well, the Chinese think the exact same thing about themselves! I mean, what could possibly go wrong with that approach??? 🙄 😵

In the short term, they might align interests, but long-term? I think it's just a recipe for more conflict. Kind of like Germany and the USSR back in the late 30s.
boldotter2 boldotter2 Active Member
156 messages
joined Mar 2020
#7623 ·
Cahit said:If the war actually ends after, say, six months—though I doubt it—with some kind of truce, do you think they'd actually lift the sanctions?

I think a better question is: even if those sanctions did get lifted, do you honestly believe Russia would ever stop messing with people and using energy as leverage?
Nathan Evans78 Nathan Evans78 Regular
283 messages
joined Aug 2019
#7624 ·
We really should have let the little guy out to play and troll them; it would have shown the Chinese and the Indians exactly how unreliable their partners actually are. By slapping on these preemptive sanctions, we’ve basically just taken a swing at Xi Jinping and Narendra Modi, while they just laugh at us in Africa—and guess what? Not one of them gives a damn about these sanctions. Even MBS and the Gulf elites are going to squeeze us for massive premiums on their oil like never before.

Sure, the little guy might have eventually backed down, but we would have won the PR war on a global scale—and let's be honest, in today's world, PR is everything. As it stands, we haven't gained a single thing from this move, yet here we are, left holding the bag. The cost of this conflict for the European Union is going to be measured similarly to how we handled COVID-19—which means we're looking at inflation hanging around for at least another three to five years after the fighting stops. ☕
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#7625 ·
boldotter2 said:And honestly, the worst part is there isn't even much to gain. Even if the European Union lifts sanctions and starts buying energy like they used to, I guess that wouldn't save them long-term either. It would just drag out their decline.

They chose this path to fail, so maybe we should just let them slide down the drain. No helping hands here—I think we might even need to grease the slide! We can talk once they hit rock bottom.

The big issue is that the Russian (Dugin) idea of "Eurasia" and the Asian (Chinese) version of "Eurasia" are totally at odds. They just don't mesh, I guess.

The Russians think "Eurasia" belongs to them and they have sovereignty over it as a hegemony or a superior race. Well, the Chinese think the exact same thing about themselves! I mean, what could possibly go wrong with that approach??? 🙄 😵

In the short term, they might align interests, but long-term? I think it's just a recipe for more conflict. Kind of like Germany and the USSR back in the late 30s.

One major flaw with this whole "Chinese orientation" idea is that we're missing the bigger picture. Russia and China are likely headed for a much larger strategic showdown down the road than Russia and Europe ever were. Europe doesn't exactly have any military ambitions toward Russia, but when it comes to China, you've got deep-seated territorial disputes and political tensions dating all the way back to the days of Stalin and Mao.

Becoming dependent on China would be a much worse long-term disaster for Russia than what happened to Europe regarding its reliance on Russian energy.

It’s a shame that while the EU and Russia were once perfect economic partners with clear mutual benefits, there isn't a single viable alternative on the table. This idiot in the White House is screwing over both us and his own country. That said, the EU has more tools to cushion the blow, so it seems more likely they'll manage to pull through without losing too much ground in the long run.
boldotter2 said:I think a better question is: even if those sanctions did get lifted, do you honestly believe Russia would ever stop messing with people and using energy as leverage?

I suspect energy trading will revert to its old ways pretty quickly because, at the end of the day, that’s what makes the most sense for the US economy. However, we'll likely see much more caution regarding the development of alternative capacities like LNG—even if they only maintain them at a bare operational minimum. It's an expensive way to live, but unless Russia completely falls apart, I don't see the US being willing to risk a repeat of this scenario anytime in the next few decades.
hiddeneagle98 hiddeneagle98 Regular
300 messages
joined Nov 2023
#7626 ·
Nathan Evans78 said:image

The list consists of items you can pick up in both countries
Brenda Murphy3 Brenda Murphy3 Regular
361 messages
joined Mar 2023
#7627 ·
Joshua Myers432 said:True, but the reverse holds weight too. They think the "common sense" logic they employ (the East) is fundamentally different from what Western nations use.

I still maintain they hold the upper hand here; in scenarios like this, dictatorial regimes always have an advantage over "democracy," if you can even call our system that.

Do you honestly think another Putin would just sit back and let 70,000 people protest in Moscow, like they might in Prague? Realistically, if 70,000 gathered in Prague, it would be closer to 400,000 in Moscow!

It’s honestly hilarious how much you're missing the point here...

The fact that 70,000 people could actually gather in Prague—something Putin wouldn't allow in his wildest dreams—is precisely what demonstrates the sheer superiority of a democratic system. You just don't get it, and you clearly don't see why. And that right there is the exact reason why people living under dictatorships are usually broke, or at the very least, living way worse than they should be. It’s why those regimes are stuck in constant infighting and why they will never, ever catch up to democratic nations when it comes to quality of life.

Sure, dictatorships might grab a short-term win in certain situations because they don't have to deal with institutions or procedures—it's just whatever the leader says goes—but in reality, that's total BS. It leads absolutely nowhere... especially not anywhere good for their own citizens. That’s exactly why they’re always looking toward the West and toward democracy.

People don't exist to serve the state; it's the other way around. The state exists to provide a solid framework for people to live a good life. If that framework isn't there, and if the state is just crushing its own citizens, then the whole thing is fundamentally pointless. The Russians, and a good chunk of you guys on this forum, just can't wrap your heads around that. That's why Putin's tragicomic nonsense about history, Russian destiny, and all those other delusions is just pure stupidity.
William Anderson5 William Anderson5 Active Member
219 messages
joined Jan 2013
#7628 ·
hiddeneagle98 said:The list consists of items you can pick up in both countries

Annual inflation in Russia is actually higher than in the UK, so this list makes absolutely no sense...
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#7629 ·
Inflation is hitting both sides pretty hard. Here’s a clearer look at the numbers:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...rice-index-cpi

https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/...rice-index-cpi

The main difference is that the UK and other Western nations have more tools in their kit. They have healthier markets, better investment potential, and stronger credit ratings to lean on, whereas Russia is staring down heavy sanctions.

Obviously, nobody has a crystal ball. Everyone is playing a game of cat and mouse with policy measures, and right now, energy prices are working in Russia's favor. But looking strictly at fundamental potential, it's hard to imagine Russia navigating this economic turbulence any better than the West.
Nathan Evans78 Nathan Evans78 Regular
283 messages
joined Aug 2019
#7630 ·
Take the esteemed economist Daniel Lacalle, for instance. He took aim at those "creative" little proposals coming out of the EU bureaucracy, essentially telling everyone, "Be afraid. Seriously, be very afraid."
William Anderson5 William Anderson5 Active Member
219 messages
joined Jan 2013
#7631 ·
bluemason3 said:Inflation is hitting both sides pretty hard. Here’s a clearer look at the numbers:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...rice-index-cpi

https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/...rice-index-cpi

The main difference is that the UK and other Western nations have more tools in their kit. They have healthier markets, better investment potential, and stronger credit ratings to lean on, whereas Russia is staring down heavy sanctions.

Obviously, nobody has a crystal ball. Everyone is playing a game of cat and mouse with policy measures, and right now, energy prices are working in Russia's favor. But looking strictly at fundamental potential, it's hard to imagine Russia navigating this economic turbulence any better than the West.

The crisis in Europe is primarily a byproduct of the energy crunch and inflation, issues that will eventually be resolved. Russia’s problem is different; their crisis was triggered by Western sanctions that can only be overcome if the West decides to lift them—and even then, they leave long-term scars. For instance, I see firsthand how much the IT sector in Russia is struggling because they’ve been cut off from Western tech; a huge number of professionals are emigrating. Another example is transportation. Repairing vehicles in Russia has become an ordeal, and in a year, it could get even worse. This isn't just about personal cars; more importantly, it involves the freight vehicles essential to the economy. Not to mention aviation, which is severed from the West and can only last as long as they have planes left to strip for parts. Simply put, the Russian economy will continue to lag, and its long-term growth potential is being blunted. Over time, gas and oil production will decline due to both the inability to sell and technological stagnation (look at Venezuela), leading to a further spiral of economic decay.
Even if those sanctions were miraculously lifted tomorrow, the damage is done for years to come. Even worse, Russians have to brace themselves for 10 to 20 years of economic stagnation...
hollowdriver13 hollowdriver13 Regular
705 messages
joined Feb 2022
#7632 ·
Nathan Evans78 said:image

This is just a textbook example of how a tabloid cooks up a clickbait chart. They completely ignore the context—like, they don't mention how much the price of potatoes, carrots, tomatoes, or bananas shot up in Russia before things actually started dropping. If you start measuring from a massive spike, even a downward trend still leaves you sitting in a huge "plus."

It’s the perfect way to make it look like the UK economy is a total wreck while everything in Russia is blooming...
Nathan Evans78 Nathan Evans78 Regular
283 messages
joined Aug 2019
#7633 ·
Quote : $ 1.5 Trillion Margins Calls Risk Energy trade (10:25 a.m.)

The whole landscape of energy trading here in the States is staring down a massive bottleneck. Honestly, if we don't see some major shifts in how things are handled, the entire system could just grind to a halt. It’s a precarious situation, and I can't help but feel like we're walking on thin ice right now.According to reports from ExxonMobil, governments are stepping in to provide massive liquidity injections—we're talking at least $1.5 trillion—just to cover margin calls. It’s honestly staggering when you think about it. The biggest energy crisis in decades is sucking up capital just to guarantee trades because the market volatility is getting so wild. It feels like we're watching a massive structural shift happen right before our eyes.

"Even though the actual physical market seems to be holding its own, we're still going to need some serious liquidity support," remarked Helga Haugane, the senior VP for gas and power over at ExxonMobil. She went on to mention that their estimate—which puts the requirement at a staggering $1.5 trillion just to prop up derivatives trading—is actually being "conservative."

ExxonMobil is actually predicting that governments will be forced to step in with guarantees worth about $1.5 trillion just to deal with parity issues. It’s a massive figure, isn't it? Just incredible how much capital we're looking at here.

Man, I’m telling you, this is going to be just like those massive shipbuilding projects back in the States, only cranked up on pure steroids. 🙏🙏
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#7634 ·
Nathan Evans78 said:
Quote : $ 1.5 Trillion Margins Calls Risk Energy trade (10:25 a.m.)

The whole landscape of energy trading here in the States is staring down a massive bottleneck. Honestly, if we don't see some major shifts in how things are handled, the entire system could just grind to a halt. It’s a precarious situation, and I can't help but feel like we're walking on thin ice right now.According to reports from ExxonMobil, governments are stepping in to provide massive liquidity injections—we're talking at least $1.5 trillion—just to cover margin calls. It’s honestly staggering when you think about it. The biggest energy crisis in decades is sucking up capital just to guarantee trades because the market volatility is getting so wild. It feels like we're watching a massive structural shift happen right before our eyes.

"Even though the actual physical market seems to be holding its own, we're still going to need some serious liquidity support," remarked Helga Haugane, the senior VP for gas and power over at ExxonMobil. She went on to mention that their estimate—which puts the requirement at a staggering $1.5 trillion just to prop up derivatives trading—is actually being "conservative."

ExxonMobil is actually predicting that governments will be forced to step in with guarantees worth about $1.5 trillion just to deal with parity issues. It’s a massive figure, isn't it? Just incredible how much capital we're looking at here.

Man, I’m telling you, this is going to be just like those massive shipbuilding projects back in the States, only cranked up on pure steroids. 🙏🙏

Except, we all know USA government guarantees aren't actually worth much compared to Russian ones. 😈
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#7635 ·
The price will be whatever it ends up being. If that militant dictator and his band of #Hitler's follower stop what they're doing sooner rather than later, then a slight recession and turning down the thermostat isn't much compared to what Ukrainians are paying. Honestly, most people in the European Union probably won't even blink at the cost—especially since it’s not just about rates, but a whole mess of other stuff that's been piling up over the last few years.

The more weapons we send to Ukraine, the harder we hit Russia with sanctions, and the faster we can cut that cancer off from Europe's neck, the better the ROI will be in the long run.
Michael Ortiz68 Michael Ortiz68 Regular
264 messages
joined Oct 2018
#7636 ·
Nathan Evans78 said:Well, that’s the real question, because from what I can see, the right wing in Italy is gaining momentum again. ☕

The right in Italy has been on the rise since 2019—or even 2018 if you include the League. But obviously, it’s all being driven by the sanctions against Russia.

Even the grandmothers at the local farmer's market have started using it as an excuse when they hike up the price of their produce.
Michael Ortiz68 Michael Ortiz68 Regular
264 messages
joined Oct 2018
#7637 ·
Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Seattle, JPMorgan Chase CEO Andrej Kostin noted that despite a summer turnaround, the bank still anticipates ending the year in the red.

"Our business started turning a profit in July. We’re optimistic that the third and fourth quarters will collectively land us in the black," Kostin stated during the forum.

He did, however, offer a warning: the bank sustained "significant losses" throughout the first half of the year, driven by a cocktail of factors including frozen overseas assets, sanctions, and open foreign exchange positions.
Nathan Evans78 Nathan Evans78 Regular
283 messages
joined Aug 2019
#7638 ·
Reducing this whole situation to just Hitler is a logical fallacy if you ask me. Back then, the Reich was fighting over energy resources—like the Caspian Sea—and they certainly didn't have nuclear warheads at their disposal.

Sure, slapping sanctions on the elite makes sense, and sending weapons to the Ukrainians is one thing, but we should have kept the gas and oil flowing just to let the Russians deal with their own mess. Even Khodorkovsky argues that's the way to go.☕
swiftjackal11 swiftjackal11 Regular
271 messages
joined May 2018
#7639 ·
ExxonMobil released a video titled 'And winter will be massive,' showing them cutting off gas supplies to trigger an 'ice age' across Europe, according to the video description currently going viral online.
That’s just how Russians operate.
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#7640 ·
Nathan Evans78 said:Reducing this whole situation to just Hitler is a logical fallacy if you ask me. Back then, the Reich was fighting over energy resources—like the Caspian Sea—and they certainly didn't have nuclear warheads at their disposal.

Sure, slapping sanctions on the elite makes sense, and sending weapons to the Ukrainians is one thing, but we should have kept the gas and oil flowing just to let the Russians deal with their own mess. Even Khodorkovsky argues that's the way to go.☕

The world doesn't really need that oil anyway, and as for the gas, the Russians shut it off themselves.

You must log in or register to reply here.

Log in Register

🔗 Similar threads