Sanctions on Russia

urbanotter said:I don't

I've actually got a left-side coronary angiogram scheduled for 1:00 PM today.

It looks like I might need a stent along with some work on the right side.

Or perhaps you think my medical situation isn't a valid excuse for being short on time, and you're wondering why the hell I'm still around, paying into a system just so you can have healthcare and a pension.

It definitely is.
I honestly thought it was just a typo.

Nathan Evans78 said:European Union trade in goods with China, 2011-2021


Velis, things are heating up. We're looking at a deficit that's grown by 120 billion euros compared to 2011. 😁

According to the report, U.S. universities awarded twice as many doctorates in STEM fields (18,289) as Chinese universities (9,038) in 2000. But by 2007, the order had flipped and China began outpacing U.S. universities. In 2010. Chinese universities graduated 34,801 STEM doctorates compared to 26,076 by American universities.

Over the last decade, China has steadily increased its lead. In 2019, Chinese universities produced 49,498 PhDs in STEM fields, while U.S. universities produced 33,759. Based on current enrollment patterns, the report projects that by 2025 China’s yearly STEM PhD graduates (77,179) will nearly double those in the United States (39,959).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael...-of-stem-phds/

U.S. TRADE DEFICIT

the past year’s goods-only deficit with China reached US$355.3 billion, lower only than US$418.2 billion in 2018, the US Department of Commerce reported on Tuesday. A US $859.1 deficit in overall trade, including goods and services, set another record.
The widening deficit follows an effort by former US president Donald Trump to narrow the gap – which he called “unfair” – through tariffs imposed on Chinese imports beginning in 2018.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/arti...ina-gap-widens

And?😁

What's even the point of this post of yours?

The European Union and the West basically cooked their own goose by getting so greedy and entering into this kind of relationship with China, but don't go forgetting that the same goes for China. Their entire growth engine is fueled exclusively by Western consumption and how easy we make it for them by buying everything in sight. Long term—the West actually has the ability to bring some production back home and use other levers to just slash imports from China, but then who the hell is China going to sell all those massive amounts of junk to?

Trade isn't a one-way street, but given where the economic power sits right now—the West (still) has more cards left to play...

The European Union is rolling out a fresh set of sanctions against Russia—claiming they’re the most aggressive yet. Here’s the breakdown:

- A total ban on importing various steel products
- No more new investments in the Russian energy sector—though there are some narrow exceptions for civilian nuclear power and transporting specific energy supplies back to the European Union
- An embargo on exporting luxury goods (think high-end cars, jewelry, etc.) from the European Union
- A freeze on credit rating agencies within the European Union being allowed to rate Russian entities or provide services to Russian clients—which should effectively cut off their access to European Union financial markets further.

These measures kick in just a few hours from now.

I wonder how this will actually hit them?

Brenda Murphy3 said:And?😁

What's even the point of this post of yours?

The European Union and the West basically cooked their own goose by getting so greedy and entering into this kind of relationship with China, but don't go forgetting that the same goes for China. Their entire growth engine is fueled exclusively by Western consumption and how easy we make it for them by buying everything in sight. Long term—the West actually has the ability to bring some production back home and use other levers to just slash imports from China, but then who the hell is China going to sell all those massive amounts of junk to?

Trade isn't a one-way street, but given where the economic power sits right now—the West (still) has more cards left to play...

I was simply responding to the claim that industrial manufacturing is suddenly booming in the West like some kind of renaissance, when the actual data tells a completely different story. Right now, the facts favor China, as they have the massive labor force required for large-scale production. Meanwhile, a company over in a place like Istria is running into exactly these kinds of hurdles:

Workers from Mexico

By the end of this year, we’re looking to hire about a hundred workers, but finding them is proving to be a real struggle. We’re seeing people coming in from Mexico, and we even have six Vietnamese people on the team. I’d love to see people from Ukraine come work with us too. Our main headache right now is the rising cost of raw materials and energy, which could get even worse because of the war in Ukraine. But honestly, we aren't alone—they're facing the same issues in Slovakia where they produce 5,500 railcars a year.

"There's a shortage of skilled tradespeople everywhere, so anyone willing to put in the work is welcome."

Nathan Evans78 said:I was simply responding to the claim that industrial manufacturing is suddenly booming in the West like some kind of renaissance, when the actual data tells a completely different story. Right now, the facts favor China, as they have the massive labor force required for large-scale production. Meanwhile, a company over in a place like Istria is running into exactly these kinds of hurdles:

Workers from Mexico

By the end of this year, we’re looking to hire about a hundred workers, but finding them is proving to be a real struggle. We’re seeing people coming in from Mexico, and we even have six Vietnamese people on the team. I’d love to see people from Ukraine come work with us too. Our main headache right now is the rising cost of raw materials and energy, which could get even worse because of the war in Ukraine. But honestly, we aren't alone—they're facing the same issues in Slovakia where they produce 5,500 railcars a year.

"There's a shortage of skilled tradespeople everywhere, so anyone willing to put in the work is welcome."

Look, it really depends on how you slice it.

The economy and industry across Europe are still incredibly robust, and things are shifting big time post-COVID—and honestly, the whole situation with Russia is just going to crank that up a notch. To be blunt, neither Russia, nor China, nor even the European Union expected sanctions this heavy-handed or support this intense. For China, this setup isn't great in the long run... basically, every move the EU and the US make to bring manufacturing capacity back home is a direct hit to China's dominance.

As for Istria—sure, maybe they're facing some issues (and let's be real, they definitely have plenty of them😁), but for you, me, or pretty much any average person, it’s a way better, higher-quality place to live than China. No matter what metrics you use to measure it...

As long as that remains true, all those specific problems you're bringing up above are totally irrelevant to me.

Nathan Evans78 said:European Union trade in goods with China, 2011-2021


Velis, things are heating up. We're looking at a deficit that's grown by 120 billion euros compared to 2011. 😁

According to the report, U.S. universities awarded twice as many doctorates in STEM fields (18,289) as Chinese universities (9,038) in 2000. But by 2007, the order had flipped and China began outpacing U.S. universities. In 2010. Chinese universities graduated 34,801 STEM doctorates compared to 26,076 by American universities.

Over the last decade, China has steadily increased its lead. In 2019, Chinese universities produced 49,498 PhDs in STEM fields, while U.S. universities produced 33,759. Based on current enrollment patterns, the report projects that by 2025 China’s yearly STEM PhD graduates (77,179) will nearly double those in the United States (39,959).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael...-of-stem-phds/

U.S. TRADE DEFICIT

the past year’s goods-only deficit with China reached US$355.3 billion, lower only than US$418.2 billion in 2018, the US Department of Commerce reported on Tuesday. A US $859.1 deficit in overall trade, including goods and services, set another record.
The widening deficit follows an effort by former US president Donald Trump to narrow the gap – which he called “unfair” – through tariffs imposed on Chinese imports beginning in 2018.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/arti...ina-gap-widens

Yeah! I mean, that trade deficit you mentioned? That's basically proof that DEMAND exists. And you can't have SUPPLY without demand first. And supply means PRODUCTION.

Where all that production happens used to be a non-issue—everyone just looked at the bottom line. But lately, things have changed because we aren't just looking at the price tag anymore; we're factoring in "strategic costs" too.
I guess China isn't what it is just because they're "better," but mostly because they're cheap and easy to work with. But lately, some new stuff is happening that affects how affordable and accessible they are, beyond just the cost of labor.

Larry Fox5 said:As if they’re just gonna grab the bottling plants from Coca-Cola and run them themselves. Give me a break... 🤣🤣🤣

All those bottling facilities over in Russia were built by Anheuser-Busch out of their headquarters—it's all automated through software that's controlled directly from Germany. It was designed that way to keep an eye on licensing, and honestly, just to make Software updates way easier to push through.

You can't even get those machines running without getting a license confirmation sent over from Germany. It’s the exact same deal with Oracle, which—by the way—is baked into every major corporation in Russia, including the government agencies.

We aren't living in 1950, people. 🤣

That is how the West maintains control...

urbanotter said:So, if I were to grab you by the throat and start choking you, and you fought back,
you wouldn't call that defense—it would just be aggression.
Please, spare me those tired old clichés; they lost their impact a long time ago.

Nobody ever grabbed Russia by the throat and started choking them. If anything, it was the exact opposite; Russia thrived on its cooperation with the West, which is painfully obvious now that those ties have been severed. This whole aggression against Ukraine exists solely because of a half-witted Gollum who’s obsessed with reclaiming an empire, or at least some version of the good old USSR.

Brenda Murphy3 said:Look, it really depends on how you slice it.

The economy and industry across Europe are still incredibly robust, and things are shifting big time post-COVID—and honestly, the whole situation with Russia is just going to crank that up a notch. To be blunt, neither Russia, nor China, nor even the European Union expected sanctions this heavy-handed or support this intense. For China, this setup isn't great in the long run... basically, every move the EU and the US make to bring manufacturing capacity back home is a direct hit to China's dominance.

As for Istria—sure, maybe they're facing some issues (and let's be real, they definitely have plenty of them😁), but for you, me, or pretty much any average person, it’s a way better, higher-quality place to live than China. No matter what metrics you use to measure it...

As long as that remains true, all those specific problems you're bringing up above are totally irrelevant to me.

Look, like I mentioned before, I was specifically responding to that post about an industrial renaissance. You've got this certain fan-like enthusiasm driven by emotion, which is perfectly fine—I totally get where you're coming from. ☕

boldotter2 said:Yeah! I mean, that trade deficit you mentioned? That's basically proof that DEMAND exists. And you can't have SUPPLY without demand first. And supply means PRODUCTION.

Where all that production happens used to be a non-issue—everyone just looked at the bottom line. But lately, things have changed because we aren't just looking at the price tag anymore; we're factoring in "strategic costs" too.
I guess China isn't what it is just because they're "better," but mostly because they're cheap and easy to work with. But lately, some new stuff is happening that affects how affordable and accessible they are, beyond just the cost of labor.

Let's be real, China hasn't been the budget option for ages; you've got parts of Africa ready to work for a mere fraction of the cost. Seriously, try finding me a single metropolitan area in the European Union that could possibly replace Shenzhen within five years. Maybe a small suburb outside of a major city or some massive tech campus led by someone like Mate Rimac?🤣🤣

Nathan Evans78 said:Look, like I mentioned before, I was specifically responding to that post about an industrial renaissance. You've got this certain fan-like enthusiasm driven by emotion, which is perfectly fine—I totally get where you're coming from. ☕

Look, I don't have any "fanboy" feelings here...

That whole cheerleader vibe is actually super obvious with people who spout nonsense about how Russia is totally self-sufficient, or how this is going to wreck the West while Russia stays perfectly fine—just total garbage.

Honestly, that biased sentiment is pretty loud coming from people like you, who toss out statistics without having the slightest clue what they actually mean or the context behind them.

The fact that an average American lives a way higher quality life than an average Chinese person isn't "cheerleading" or being emotional; it's just a straight-up fact. It's like saying a German person lives better than an American...I don't see any emotion or bias in that. So, where exactly are you seeing it? And why your response above even makes sense is a completely different issue entirely. 😒 .
How much you actually grasp versus how much you're just guessing—well, that's a whole other conversation...😁

Should I really bother wading through all the nonsense being peddled by these Russophile armchair economists on this forum? Is Russia actually becoming self-sufficient, and how much longer can the European Union possibly endure under the crushing weight of these sanctions?

When exactly are we going to see an even better version of Russian Coca-Cola hitting our shelves? And has Coca-Cola officially declared bankruptcy yet?

Brenda Murphy3 said:Look, I don't have any "fanboy" feelings here...

That whole cheerleader vibe is actually super obvious with people who spout nonsense about how Russia is totally self-sufficient, or how this is going to wreck the West while Russia stays perfectly fine—just total garbage.

Honestly, that biased sentiment is pretty loud coming from people like you, who toss out statistics without having the slightest clue what they actually mean or the context behind them.

The fact that an average American lives a way higher quality life than an average Chinese person isn't "cheerleading" or being emotional; it's just a straight-up fact. It's like saying a German person lives better than an American...I don't see any emotion or bias in that. So, where exactly are you seeing it? And why your response above even makes sense is a completely different issue entirely. 😒 .
How much you actually grasp versus how much you're just guessing—well, that's a whole other conversation...😁

In what sense does the average American live better than the average Chinese person?

Nathan Evans78 said:Let's be real, China hasn't been the budget option for ages; you've got parts of Africa ready to work for a mere fraction of the cost. Seriously, try finding me a single metropolitan area in the European Union that could possibly replace Shenzhen within five years. Maybe a small suburb outside of a major city or some massive tech campus led by someone like Mate Rimac?🤣🤣

And you really think he can't pull it off? Please. Honestly, I don't know why people are so quick to doubt him. It’s like they just refuse to see the vision. I mean, look at the track record here—it's right there in front of us if you actually bother to pay attention for more than five seconds. People love to talk a big game about how "impossible" something is, but usually, it's just because they lack the guts to try it themselves. I've seen this movie before, and spoiler alert: skepticism doesn't stop progress, it just makes you look foolish when things actually work out. 😁 What makes you say that? Seriously, what's your reasoning there?

You’re seriously tripping over the most basic stuff here. Like, we're talking fundamentals, man. It's not even that deep, yet you're out here making it complicated.
Yeah, look, we might run into a situation where stuff like Christmas lights or random toys end up costing way more than they used to—or maybe we just won't be able to find certain things on the shelves at all. But if we're talking about the heavy hitters, the strategic industries? We’re talking everything from essential goods and software to high-end electronics and large-scale industrial manufacturing. Honestly, you have all that infrastructure right here in the US and across the European Union.

You're just throwing stuff out there left and right without actually having a clue what you're talking about. It’s all super vague, and honestly, it feels like you don't even grasp the core of the topic you're trying to lecture me on.

Besides that—look, the European Union and the West have this one massive advantage that they aren't even talking about enough: they own the market. They have the actual consumer base that’s going to swallow these products whole, and for China, that market is almost entirely comprised of the West—specifically the USA and the EU. You really don't see any potential problem there for China? Come on, give me a break...😁

Brenda Murphy3 said:Look, I don't have any "fanboy" feelings here...

That whole cheerleader vibe is actually super obvious with people who spout nonsense about how Russia is totally self-sufficient, or how this is going to wreck the West while Russia stays perfectly fine—just total garbage.

Honestly, that biased sentiment is pretty loud coming from people like you, who toss out statistics without having the slightest clue what they actually mean or the context behind them.

The fact that an average American lives a way higher quality life than an average Chinese person isn't "cheerleading" or being emotional; it's just a straight-up fact. It's like saying a German person lives better than an American...I don't see any emotion or bias in that. So, where exactly are you seeing it? And why your response above even makes sense is a completely different issue entirely. 😒 .
How much you actually grasp versus how much you're just guessing—well, that's a whole other conversation...😁

Look, I have no way of knowing through a screen if you’re actually your country's "average citizen." For all I know, you could be the kid of some corrupt white-collar criminal or someone living off taxpayer money while treating the government treasury like their own personal piggy bank. People like that usually love to shout about how great their homeland is, often while sitting comfortably in their basement. 🤣

Rachel White said:In what sense does the average American live better than the average Chinese person?

Look, if we're talking pure economics, that's number one... but then you can always pivot to things like freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of choice, and all that jazz.
When you factor in labor rights, healthcare, life expectancy... etc., etc... is that enough for you, or do I need to keep going?

Brenda Murphy3 said:And you really think he can't pull it off? Please. Honestly, I don't know why people are so quick to doubt him. It’s like they just refuse to see the vision. I mean, look at the track record here—it's right there in front of us if you actually bother to pay attention for more than five seconds. People love to talk a big game about how "impossible" something is, but usually, it's just because they lack the guts to try it themselves. I've seen this movie before, and spoiler alert: skepticism doesn't stop progress, it just makes you look foolish when things actually work out. 😁 What makes you say that? Seriously, what's your reasoning there?

You’re seriously tripping over the most basic stuff here. Like, we're talking fundamentals, man. It's not even that deep, yet you're out here making it complicated.
Yeah, look, we might run into a situation where stuff like Christmas lights or random toys end up costing way more than they used to—or maybe we just won't be able to find certain things on the shelves at all. But if we're talking about the heavy hitters, the strategic industries? We’re talking everything from essential goods and software to high-end electronics and large-scale industrial manufacturing. Honestly, you have all that infrastructure right here in the US and across the European Union.

You're just throwing stuff out there left and right without actually having a clue what you're talking about. It’s all super vague, and honestly, it feels like you don't even grasp the core of the topic you're trying to lecture me on.

Besides that—look, the European Union and the West have this one massive advantage that they aren't even talking about enough: they own the market. They have the actual consumer base that’s going to swallow these products whole, and for China, that market is almost entirely comprised of the West—specifically the USA and the EU. You really don't see any potential problem there for China? Come on, give me a break...😁

I am not speaking in generalities at all. It is an objective fact that China is catching up to the West, and Western institutions have already acknowledged this—just look at the American sanctions placed on Huawei. Seriously, it would be pathetic if, after various European empires (like Nazi Germany or Great Britain) spent centuries conquering the planet for resources, we ended up weaker than China, which hasn't even moved an inch beyond its own borders in over a hundred years.🤣

Nathan Evans78 said:Look, I have no way of knowing through a screen if you’re actually your country's "average citizen." For all I know, you could be the kid of some corrupt white-collar criminal or someone living off taxpayer money while treating the government treasury like their own personal piggy bank. People like that usually love to shout about how great their homeland is, often while sitting comfortably in their basement. 🤣

Oh, sure thing, kiddo...🙂

Everything is exactly as you described... because obviously, my personal bank account and family tree have absolutely nothing to do with macro-level national statistics....🤣

God, honestly... you guys are all freaking hilarious with this childish nonsense...

Abramovich has returned from Israel to Russia. Word on the street is he’s planning to establish an even older and more prestigious version of Chelsea FC

Rachel White said:In what sense does the average American live better than the average Chinese person?

The standard of living.
Better healthcare.
Better education.
Better social services.
Superior infrastructure.
Higher quality housing and construction in general.
A freer society.
Democracy.
Freedom of speech.
Market freedom (though even in China, until the Party decides otherwise).
.
.
.

Honestly, I can't think of any metric where life in China would be better, except perhaps for the elite class.🤔