The Eighth Sin: GREED

You know, everyone talks about the seven deadly sins, but there’s an eighth one hiding in plain sight—one that doesn't even look like a sin at first glance. It's obedience. Honestly, it's caused enough chaos to earn its spot on the list.
It's funny, really. People often toss aside their own common sense and intelligence just to follow some authority figure. They turn into a total herd mentality from the get-go. It’s much easier to let someone else make the calls than to actually think for yourself, right? So they just trade away their freedom of thought for convenience.
Any society built on rigid authority relies on that exact same mindset, and frankly, so do most ideologies and religions.

Check out this episode of Science Magazine dedicated to this "eighth sin."

Looking at it through a spiritual lens, what do you all think? Is blind obedience a good thing or a bad thing when it comes to a person's spiritual growth and maturity?

How do you guys handle your own obedience—or lack thereof? What kind of impact has it had on your life?

wearyowl29 said:

You know, everyone talks about the seven deadly sins, but there’s an eighth one hiding in plain sight—one that doesn't even look like a sin at first glance. It's obedience. Honestly, it's caused enough chaos to earn its spot on the list.
It's funny, really. People often toss aside their own common sense and intelligence just to follow some authority figure. They turn into a total herd mentality from the get-go. It’s much easier to let someone else make the calls than to actually think for yourself, right? So they just trade away their freedom of thought for convenience.
Any society built on rigid authority relies on that exact same mindset, and frankly, so do most ideologies and religions.

Check out this episode of Science Magazine dedicated to this "eighth sin."

Looking at it through a spiritual lens, what do you all think? Is blind obedience a good thing or a bad thing when it comes to a person's spiritual growth and maturity?

How do you guys handle your own obedience—or lack thereof? What kind of impact has it had on your life?

Oh, absolutely. The entire human race is built upon that exact principle.
People are sorted into different categories.
You have those who act as authorities and those who simply obey.
It starts in infancy; many parents present themselves as absolute authorities to their children.
Then they hit school, dealing with teachers and professors.
Later, it's bosses.
Essentially, people are trained for obedience from the time they are small.
I should mention that back in elementary school, most of my teachers told me
that I didn't recognize authority.
Even after working under a few bosses, I received nothing but praise, though they always cited that as my one flaw.
I don't accept authority for authority's sake.
It would be wonderful if people could rid themselves of this evil and only respect those who actually deserve respect.

wearyowl29 said:

You know, everyone talks about the seven deadly sins, but there’s an eighth one hiding in plain sight—one that doesn't even look like a sin at first glance. It's obedience. Honestly, it's caused enough chaos to earn its spot on the list.
It's funny, really. People often toss aside their own common sense and intelligence just to follow some authority figure. They turn into a total herd mentality from the get-go. It’s much easier to let someone else make the calls than to actually think for yourself, right? So they just trade away their freedom of thought for convenience.
Any society built on rigid authority relies on that exact same mindset, and frankly, so do most ideologies and religions.

Check out this episode of Science Magazine dedicated to this "eighth sin."

Looking at it through a spiritual lens, what do you all think? Is blind obedience a good thing or a bad thing when it comes to a person's spiritual growth and maturity?

How do you guys handle your own obedience—or lack thereof? What kind of impact has it had on your life?

Generally speaking, the concept of "authority" is misunderstood by the masses. People mistake leaders for true authorities. A real authority should act as a facilitator for growth—someone who helps nurture specific aspects of a person's character—rather than just a traditional leader.

To me, a true "authority" would be someone who acts in the interest of the greater good. They wouldn't impose themselves; instead, they'd lead by example, acting as a respected member of the community whose spiritual strength is evident. They aren't demagogues playing on the insecurities of a crowd looking for easy promises; they are more like Socrates, asking nothing and offering nothing except a nudge for others to question everything (much like Buddha or other great thinkers).

So, I see two types of authority here. The first group might find blessings if they can find a legitimate authority figure—someone who isn't "above" them in a hierarchical sense. In this case, comparison doesn't exist on a conventional level. This is the authentic relationship between a student and a Teacher. It’s not about a small "me" versus a massive "I" centered around a limited ego where dust and ignorance gather. Instead, it's about a collective "I" that seeks to expand over time toward a true cosmic feminine principle. This principle unifies individuality into a cohesive whole that everyone feels—not as "we," but as ONE. Even when a person interacts with another being, they recognize a closeness, a union, or a oneness.

The second group are those seduced by ego-driven individuals. These people surround themselves with a core of individual ego and selfish interests, attracting others who are also seeking to satisfy their own selfish needs, usually driven by deep insecurity.

Honestly, if someone lacks even the slightest bit of insight into what it means to be open to another human being—looking past roles like nationality, religion, ideology, or personal baggage—they will struggle to accept true authority. If they are too focused on their own narrow, selfish interests and get lost in differences rather than finding our shared humanity, they won't find help from false authorities who manipulate them, nor will they find it in a conventional educational system.

wearyowl29 said:

You know, everyone talks about the seven deadly sins, but there’s an eighth one hiding in plain sight—one that doesn't even look like a sin at first glance. It's obedience. Honestly, it's caused enough chaos to earn its spot on the list.
It's funny, really. People often toss aside their own common sense and intelligence just to follow some authority figure. They turn into a total herd mentality from the get-go. It’s much easier to let someone else make the calls than to actually think for yourself, right? So they just trade away their freedom of thought for convenience.
Any society built on rigid authority relies on that exact same mindset, and frankly, so do most ideologies and religions.

Check out this episode of Science Magazine dedicated to this "eighth sin."

Looking at it through a spiritual lens, what do you all think? Is blind obedience a good thing or a bad thing when it comes to a person's spiritual growth and maturity?

How do you guys handle your own obedience—or lack thereof? What kind of impact has it had on your life?

Well, that's one way to look at it, if you're into broad generalizations.

Out of context, though? That's a pretty dangerous take.

wearyowl29 said:

You know, everyone talks about the seven deadly sins, but there’s an eighth one hiding in plain sight—one that doesn't even look like a sin at first glance. It's obedience. Honestly, it's caused enough chaos to earn its spot on the list.
It's funny, really. People often toss aside their own common sense and intelligence just to follow some authority figure. They turn into a total herd mentality from the get-go. It’s much easier to let someone else make the calls than to actually think for yourself, right? So they just trade away their freedom of thought for convenience.
Any society built on rigid authority relies on that exact same mindset, and frankly, so do most ideologies and religions.

Check out this episode of Science Magazine dedicated to this "eighth sin."

Looking at it through a spiritual lens, what do you all think? Is blind obedience a good thing or a bad thing when it comes to a person's spiritual growth and maturity?

How do you guys handle your own obedience—or lack thereof? What kind of impact has it had on your life?

Some people just don't have any logic to begin with, and frankly, they're too lazy to develop any.

Following the herd takes way less mental effort.
Which, let's be real, is much easier than doing actual physical work.

wearyowl29 said:

You know, everyone talks about the seven deadly sins, but there’s an eighth one hiding in plain sight—one that doesn't even look like a sin at first glance. It's obedience. Honestly, it's caused enough chaos to earn its spot on the list.
It's funny, really. People often toss aside their own common sense and intelligence just to follow some authority figure. They turn into a total herd mentality from the get-go. It’s much easier to let someone else make the calls than to actually think for yourself, right? So they just trade away their freedom of thought for convenience.
Any society built on rigid authority relies on that exact same mindset, and frankly, so do most ideologies and religions.

Check out this episode of Science Magazine dedicated to this "eighth sin."

Looking at it through a spiritual lens, what do you all think? Is blind obedience a good thing or a bad thing when it comes to a person's spiritual growth and maturity?

How do you guys handle your own obedience—or lack thereof? What kind of impact has it had on your life?

Look, any society needs some kind of leadership to function.
Authority is just a natural thing.

Complex systems depend on hierarchy.

wearyowl29 said:

You know, everyone talks about the seven deadly sins, but there’s an eighth one hiding in plain sight—one that doesn't even look like a sin at first glance. It's obedience. Honestly, it's caused enough chaos to earn its spot on the list.
It's funny, really. People often toss aside their own common sense and intelligence just to follow some authority figure. They turn into a total herd mentality from the get-go. It’s much easier to let someone else make the calls than to actually think for yourself, right? So they just trade away their freedom of thought for convenience.
Any society built on rigid authority relies on that exact same mindset, and frankly, so do most ideologies and religions.

Check out this episode of Science Magazine dedicated to this "eighth sin."

Looking at it through a spiritual lens, what do you all think? Is blind obedience a good thing or a bad thing when it comes to a person's spiritual growth and maturity?

How do you guys handle your own obedience—or lack thereof? What kind of impact has it had on your life?

It probably depends on the context. A black-and-white answer just won't cut it here.

It all comes down to who exactly that person is listening to.

Andrew Hayes8 said:Oh, absolutely. The entire human race is built upon that exact principle.
People are sorted into different categories.
You have those who act as authorities and those who simply obey.
It starts in infancy; many parents present themselves as absolute authorities to their children.
Then they hit school, dealing with teachers and professors.
Later, it's bosses.
Essentially, people are trained for obedience from the time they are small.
I should mention that back in elementary school, most of my teachers told me
that I didn't recognize authority.
Even after working under a few bosses, I received nothing but praise, though they always cited that as my one flaw.
I don't accept authority for authority's sake.
It would be wonderful if people could rid themselves of this evil and only respect those who actually deserve respect.

Man, if that's the case, then you're basically unreliable—just some chaotic troublemaker everyone needs to steer clear of.🙄

Hmm... or maybe you just misunderstood what "obedience" meant growing up, so you expressed your free will through defiance. You know, essentially screwing over anyone who (as you so eloquently put it) had been placed in a certain "box" of responsibility, or anyone who trusted you to finish something. By being defiant, you probably blew things up without considering the impact on your team—assuming you actually care about anything other than yourself or the consequences, and assuming you even care about the "responsible" person asking you for help.

Oh, don't worry, I remember being a total toddler during my teenage years, telling my parents "N-o, I w-i-l-l n-o-t!" But that was safe to do at home, because a threat of a timeout was just a sign of love,
whereas consequences for that kind of disobedience at school would have cost way too much.

Folks, it brings to mind Jesus's parable from a recent Bible reading about the vineyard owner who had two sons. When he called the first one to help, the son said, "No," and left. But later, he changed his mind and went to help. When the owner asked the second son to help, he obeyed immediately.

A question for Nemruth Dag and the rest of the world: which son actually pleased his father more?

A follow-up question for Nemruth Dag and the rest of the world: why did soldiers in the civil war shoot their own comrades over something as trivial as a handful of dried plums?

A question for the intellectuals: why does Zloca Destruction place such importance on obedience?

An additional question for the intellectuals: what do trust and love actually mean to Zloca Destruction?

Everyone’s got an opinion worth hearing, I guess, but at the end of the day—you really ought to be making your own calls.

Listen, I really feel like people constantly trip over themselves because they can't wrap their heads around a simple truth: obedience and genuine human kindness are two completely different animals. Seriously, does anyone actually get the distinction? Most people just lump them together in one big messy pile, but if you stop to think about it for even a second, you'll see how far apart they actually are. One is just following orders—doing what you're told because you have to or because someone's holding a metaphorical stick over your head—while the other comes from some deep, actual goodness in your soul. Why do we act like being a good little soldier is the same thing as actually being a decent person? It’s wild to me how often that line gets blurred.
Obedience is really just this thing that's rooted deep in fear, isn't it? It’s basically just people acting out because they've got some specific interests or agendas driving them behind the scenes.
Honestly, being a decent human being isn't some complicated formula you can just study in a textbook; it really comes down to having a pure soul, total sincerity, and that genuine sense of love and respect for others. Isn't it funny how we overcomplicate everything when the most important thing is just being real?

Lisa Morales4 said:Man, if that's the case, then you're basically unreliable—just some chaotic troublemaker everyone needs to steer clear of.🙄

Hmm... or maybe you just misunderstood what "obedience" meant growing up, so you expressed your free will through defiance. You know, essentially screwing over anyone who (as you so eloquently put it) had been placed in a certain "box" of responsibility, or anyone who trusted you to finish something. By being defiant, you probably blew things up without considering the impact on your team—assuming you actually care about anything other than yourself or the consequences, and assuming you even care about the "responsible" person asking you for help.

Oh, don't worry, I remember being a total toddler during my teenage years, telling my parents "N-o, I w-i-l-l n-o-t!" But that was safe to do at home, because a threat of a timeout was just a sign of love,
whereas consequences for that kind of disobedience at school would have cost way too much.

Folks, it brings to mind Jesus's parable from a recent Bible reading about the vineyard owner who had two sons. When he called the first one to help, the son said, "No," and left. But later, he changed his mind and went to help. When the owner asked the second son to help, he obeyed immediately.

A question for Nemruth Dag and the rest of the world: which son actually pleased his father more?

A follow-up question for Nemruth Dag and the rest of the world: why did soldiers in the civil war shoot their own comrades over something as trivial as a handful of dried plums?

A question for the intellectuals: why does Zloca Destruction place such importance on obedience?

An additional question for the intellectuals: what do trust and love actually mean to Zloca Destruction?

So, you’re asking who actually deserves the inheritance? It’s clearly the second son. I mean, think about it—he stepped up the second he was asked because he actually gives a damn about his old man and wants to show some real respect. He didn't need a nudge or a legal threat; he just acted out of pure love. Meanwhile, the first guy? Please. He only decided to help after he realized he might get judged by the community or, even worse, get cut out of the will entirely. He wasn't acting out of heart; he was acting out of fear. Isn't it obvious which one is the real deal?😉

You’ve got it all wrong, Zloca—destruction isn't about ignoring the rules; it's about hijacking them. It uses those structures to fuel its own chaos in a thousand different ways. Real destruction actually highlights how much we desperately need respect, love, and basic humanity, because those are the only things that actually matter. I mean, think about it: if people actually walked through this world respecting one another, seeing the actual human being in front of them instead of just an opponent or an obstacle, wouldn't this whole country be a paradise for everyone? Not just a playground for the elite few, but a home for every single person living here.

wearyowl29 said:

You know, everyone talks about the seven deadly sins, but there’s an eighth one hiding in plain sight—one that doesn't even look like a sin at first glance. It's obedience. Honestly, it's caused enough chaos to earn its spot on the list.
It's funny, really. People often toss aside their own common sense and intelligence just to follow some authority figure. They turn into a total herd mentality from the get-go. It’s much easier to let someone else make the calls than to actually think for yourself, right? So they just trade away their freedom of thought for convenience.
Any society built on rigid authority relies on that exact same mindset, and frankly, so do most ideologies and religions.

Check out this episode of Science Magazine dedicated to this "eighth sin."

Looking at it through a spiritual lens, what do you all think? Is blind obedience a good thing or a bad thing when it comes to a person's spiritual growth and maturity?

How do you guys handle your own obedience—or lack thereof? What kind of impact has it had on your life?

Blind obedience isn't just damaging to the individual; it can have devastating societal consequences. For instance, Hitler wouldn't have been able to orchestrate the atrocities he did if the German people hadn't been so prone to following orders without question.

How do you personally handle obedience versus disobedience, and what kind of impact does that have on your life?

To me, obedience is an oxymoron. 😁 I struggle with disobedience at times because my stubbornness can drive me to extremes, but I’d much rather wrestle with those internal "demons" than live in total ignorance of my own subconscious.

Every single day, we follow guidance. We spend our lives listening—whether it’s to our own inner voice, someone else's advice, or a gut feeling deep within us. It's practically hardwired into the human experience; we can't function without it. Of course, people view this concept differently; some see it as a positive force, while others see it as a burden. With following guidance comes responsibility, which is exactly where most people stumble. Most people honestly don't know what they truly want. Personally, I don't subscribe to the idea of sin. Instead, I believe in making mistakes—errors in judgment that we can rectify whenever we choose, or when we happen to be blessed with the clarity of free will and grace. I have a lot of respect for those who change their minds to help others, just as much as I respect those who jump in immediately to assist. I've been in those shoes myself. Usually, it's after you've felt the sting of a bad decision and realize you never want to go through it again that you truly begin to value guidance. This is especially true when dealing with someone more experienced than you, or even a stranger, if you remain open enough to receive wisdom and realize how prudent it is to listen. If you adopt the attitude that you don't need to listen to anyone, eventually, no one will listen to you, and that leads to a downfall. That said, there are moments when you absolutely have to say NO. Like anything else in life, it's all about balance. You have to listen because, truthfully, you don't have all the answers. When you refuse to listen, you end up judging rather than understanding. Naturally, following guidance blindly isn't the ideal way to live. But ultimately, justice prevails, because God sees everything and knows what is in our hearts.

electrictinker26 said:Every single day, we follow guidance. We spend our lives listening—whether it’s to our own inner voice, someone else's advice, or a gut feeling deep within us. It's practically hardwired into the human experience; we can't function without it. Of course, people view this concept differently; some see it as a positive force, while others see it as a burden. With following guidance comes responsibility, which is exactly where most people stumble. Most people honestly don't know what they truly want. Personally, I don't subscribe to the idea of sin. Instead, I believe in making mistakes—errors in judgment that we can rectify whenever we choose, or when we happen to be blessed with the clarity of free will and grace. I have a lot of respect for those who change their minds to help others, just as much as I respect those who jump in immediately to assist. I've been in those shoes myself. Usually, it's after you've felt the sting of a bad decision and realize you never want to go through it again that you truly begin to value guidance. This is especially true when dealing with someone more experienced than you, or even a stranger, if you remain open enough to receive wisdom and realize how prudent it is to listen. If you adopt the attitude that you don't need to listen to anyone, eventually, no one will listen to you, and that leads to a downfall. That said, there are moments when you absolutely have to say NO. Like anything else in life, it's all about balance. You have to listen because, truthfully, you don't have all the answers. When you refuse to listen, you end up judging rather than understanding. Naturally, following guidance blindly isn't the ideal way to live. But ultimately, justice prevails, because God sees everything and knows what is in our hearts.

Obedience and listening are two distinct concepts; they aren't even remotely synonymous.

They have it, you listen, and then you actually hear what they're saying.

If disobedience is a mortal sin, then being too submissive is one too. Think of how many tragedies we could have avoided if people actually knew when to stand their ground.
Since the seven deadly sins are mostly about excess, it’s pretty obvious that extreme obedience counts as a sin itself. But at that point, you aren't even a person anymore—you're just clay.
Even Leopardij once noted that the ancient philosopher Bien said, "It's impossible to please the masses without becoming dough that everyone kneads and spreads however they please."

electrictinker26 said:They have it, you listen, and then you actually hear what they're saying.

You can be an obedient little sheep, or you can actually listen—and choose to be rebellious instead.

Mark Torres14 said:If disobedience is a mortal sin, then being too submissive is one too. Think of how many tragedies we could have avoided if people actually knew when to stand their ground.
Since the seven deadly sins are mostly about excess, it’s pretty obvious that extreme obedience counts as a sin itself. But at that point, you aren't even a person anymore—you're just clay.
Even Leopardij once noted that the ancient philosopher Bien said, "It's impossible to please the masses without becoming dough that everyone kneads and spreads however they please."

I wouldn't suggest drawing conclusions using that kind of logic.

Sure, interpreting and putting value on these "deadly sins" makes sense on some level, but it feels like we're missing the point entirely. It ignores the deeper meaning behind them, not to mention the reality of a society that’s basically deaf to this entire moral code.

hollowpuma762 said:I wouldn't suggest drawing conclusions using that kind of logic.

Sure, interpreting and putting value on these "deadly sins" makes sense on some level, but it feels like we're missing the point entirely. It ignores the deeper meaning behind them, not to mention the reality of a society that’s basically deaf to this entire moral code.

That’s not really "understandable." It's a matter of culture. And hopefully, you'll agree that in different cultures, the "seven deadly sins" would look completely different.
It's more like an exaggeration. Go ahead—name just one sin that doesn't have a positive side or could actually be seen as a virtue in a specific situation.

wearyowl29 said:

You know, everyone talks about the seven deadly sins, but there’s an eighth one hiding in plain sight—one that doesn't even look like a sin at first glance. It's obedience. Honestly, it's caused enough chaos to earn its spot on the list.
It's funny, really. People often toss aside their own common sense and intelligence just to follow some authority figure. They turn into a total herd mentality from the get-go. It’s much easier to let someone else make the calls than to actually think for yourself, right? So they just trade away their freedom of thought for convenience.
Any society built on rigid authority relies on that exact same mindset, and frankly, so do most ideologies and religions.

Check out this episode of Science Magazine dedicated to this "eighth sin."

Looking at it through a spiritual lens, what do you all think? Is blind obedience a good thing or a bad thing when it comes to a person's spiritual growth and maturity?

How do you guys handle your own obedience—or lack thereof? What kind of impact has it had on your life?

Actually, there's a ninth "sin" that never made the official cut, and that's lying.

Personally, I think obedience, fear, loyalty—whatever you want to call fear (which is probably a word people overuse anyway)—is just one type of personality trait... it's not inherently good or bad.

I see "sin" more as a psychological defense mechanism—something used to mask strength or capabilities just so they can't be challenged...
It's going to be incredibly hard for someone who's spent their whole life listening to authority figures to suddenly find the guts to listen to their own inner conscience and actually trust their own damn reason. Especially since, historically, this wasn't even called a sin—it was praised as a "virtue," celebrated, and pushed as the ultimate example of how to behave...
But hey, maybe it's possible to break out of it... I don't know... I guess it just depends on the person.

Lawrence Torres56 said:Listen, I really feel like people constantly trip over themselves because they can't wrap their heads around a simple truth: obedience and genuine human kindness are two completely different animals. Seriously, does anyone actually get the distinction? Most people just lump them together in one big messy pile, but if you stop to think about it for even a second, you'll see how far apart they actually are. One is just following orders—doing what you're told because you have to or because someone's holding a metaphorical stick over your head—while the other comes from some deep, actual goodness in your soul. Why do we act like being a good little soldier is the same thing as actually being a decent person? It’s wild to me how often that line gets blurred.
Obedience is really just this thing that's rooted deep in fear, isn't it? It’s basically just people acting out because they've got some specific interests or agendas driving them behind the scenes.
Honestly, being a decent human being isn't some complicated formula you can just study in a textbook; it really comes down to having a pure soul, total sincerity, and that genuine sense of love and respect for others. Isn't it funny how we overcomplicate everything when the most important thing is just being real?

So, you’re asking who actually deserves the inheritance? It’s clearly the second son. I mean, think about it—he stepped up the second he was asked because he actually gives a damn about his old man and wants to show some real respect. He didn't need a nudge or a legal threat; he just acted out of pure love. Meanwhile, the first guy? Please. He only decided to help after he realized he might get judged by the community or, even worse, get cut out of the will entirely. He wasn't acting out of heart; he was acting out of fear. Isn't it obvious which one is the real deal?😉

You’ve got it all wrong, Zloca—destruction isn't about ignoring the rules; it's about hijacking them. It uses those structures to fuel its own chaos in a thousand different ways. Real destruction actually highlights how much we desperately need respect, love, and basic humanity, because those are the only things that actually matter. I mean, think about it: if people actually walked through this world respecting one another, seeing the actual human being in front of them instead of just an opponent or an obstacle, wouldn't this whole country be a paradise for everyone? Not just a playground for the elite few, but a home for every single person living here.

That's right. Because the other one just obeyed out of laziness.
It was just the path of least resistance—purely automatic, or maybe just following orders to avoid trouble.

While the first one made a conscious, willing choice to return to his father's vineyard.

The vineyard owner represents God,
and as long as obedience to Him comes first, you'll never have to worry about listening to the wrong leaders or finding it hard to follow anything else in life.🙂

We should listen to God willfully, not just because we have nothing better to do.

Nicholas Gonzalez8 said:Everyone’s got an opinion worth hearing, I guess, but at the end of the day—you really ought to be making your own calls.

I’m totally on board with that! It's the right way to live. But man, sometimes life hits you so hard that you aren't even capable of making a choice—you're just trying to stay upright and listen.

Lisa Morales4 said:Man, if that's the case, then you're basically unreliable—just some chaotic troublemaker everyone needs to steer clear of.🙄

Hmm... or maybe you just misunderstood what "obedience" meant growing up, so you expressed your free will through defiance. You know, essentially screwing over anyone who (as you so eloquently put it) had been placed in a certain "box" of responsibility, or anyone who trusted you to finish something. By being defiant, you probably blew things up without considering the impact on your team—assuming you actually care about anything other than yourself or the consequences, and assuming you even care about the "responsible" person asking you for help.

Oh, don't worry, I remember being a total toddler during my teenage years, telling my parents "N-o, I w-i-l-l n-o-t!" But that was safe to do at home, because a threat of a timeout was just a sign of love,
whereas consequences for that kind of disobedience at school would have cost way too much.

Folks, it brings to mind Jesus's parable from a recent Bible reading about the vineyard owner who had two sons. When he called the first one to help, the son said, "No," and left. But later, he changed his mind and went to help. When the owner asked the second son to help, he obeyed immediately.

A question for Nemruth Dag and the rest of the world: which son actually pleased his father more?

A follow-up question for Nemruth Dag and the rest of the world: why did soldiers in the civil war shoot their own comrades over something as trivial as a handful of dried plums?

A question for the intellectuals: why does Zloca Destruction place such importance on obedience?

An additional question for the intellectuals: what do trust and love actually mean to Zloca Destruction?

Look, we aren't really debating literature here. It's more about the concept of obedience when you're looking at spiritual growth—specifically, whether being submissive actually helps you evolve or just holds you back.

They shot them to prevent total anarchy within their own ranks. I mean, draconian punishments for tiny infractions are what keep any disorganized mob in line. They weren't the first to do it, either; even the Roman legions used to execute their own soldiers for disobedience.

Lisa Morales4 said:Man, if that's the case, then you're basically unreliable—just some chaotic troublemaker everyone needs to steer clear of.🙄

Hmm... or maybe you just misunderstood what "obedience" meant growing up, so you expressed your free will through defiance. You know, essentially screwing over anyone who (as you so eloquently put it) had been placed in a certain "box" of responsibility, or anyone who trusted you to finish something. By being defiant, you probably blew things up without considering the impact on your team—assuming you actually care about anything other than yourself or the consequences, and assuming you even care about the "responsible" person asking you for help.

Oh, don't worry, I remember being a total toddler during my teenage years, telling my parents "N-o, I w-i-l-l n-o-t!" But that was safe to do at home, because a threat of a timeout was just a sign of love,
whereas consequences for that kind of disobedience at school would have cost way too much.

Folks, it brings to mind Jesus's parable from a recent Bible reading about the vineyard owner who had two sons. When he called the first one to help, the son said, "No," and left. But later, he changed his mind and went to help. When the owner asked the second son to help, he obeyed immediately.

A question for Nemruth Dag and the rest of the world: which son actually pleased his father more?

A follow-up question for Nemruth Dag and the rest of the world: why did soldiers in the civil war shoot their own comrades over something as trivial as a handful of dried plums?

A question for the intellectuals: why does Zloca Destruction place such importance on obedience?

An additional question for the intellectuals: what do trust and love actually mean to Zloca Destruction?

I get the feeling you completely missed the point of what I wrote.
But fine, let it be. I’m too lazy to go back and fix anything.
In principle, I wouldn't mind certain people avoiding me—quite the opposite, actually. 🙂 But no, I can handle dealing with them.
So it's hardly a tragedy if our paths cross.

Anyway, regarding the topic...
I was watching a documentary about what happens when people follow authority figures unconditionally.
It was an experiment where a group of students were tasked with "punishing" another group of students with electric shocks whenever they gave a wrong answer.
Of course, the professors had coordinated with the second group to intentionally give wrong answers, so there weren't actually any real electric shocks, but the first group had no idea.
Maybe only six of them refused; I don't know the exact number, but only one person explicitly said they wouldn't do something like that.
The rest did exactly what they were told.
Some seemed genuinely distressed when they heard the others screaming (they were acting, obviously), yet they still kept pressing the button to inflict pain.
The worst of them all was one girl who appeared to be the most sensitive and mild-mannered of the bunch.
All in all, a fascinating experiment.
Perhaps some of you have seen it before.

I found the link here if anyone is interested.
I see now that the second group were actors, but I watched this ages ago and my memory is a bit fuzzy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment