The Principle

There’s an old saying:

A bik is tied by its horns, but a man is bound by his words.

Doesn't that strike you as being deeply connected to the idea of having a principle?
What does "free interpretation" of a principle even mean, anyway?
Is it our core values? Our internal yardstick for character? Something like that...

I’ve noticed that people who actually live by a principle tend to be quite focused individuals—the kind of folks who really guard their integrity. It’s not exactly a widespread trait among the general public, though. Sometimes, having a strong sense of principle can be a loud part of your personality, and people might even call you selfish for sticking to it, but I think there’s something genuinely beautiful and valuable about it.
It essentially maps out how we relate to the world around us.
It grants us a sense of dignity, while simultaneously sending a message to society that staying true to oneself comes with a cost.

Actually, now that I’ve set the stage, I’d say a principle is simply the price we pay to remain ourselves.
And well, everything in this life has a price tag, doesn't it?
A principle is just that price.

What do you all think? Am I on the right track here?

No.

A principle is just a rule someone imposes on themselves for some arbitrary reason, only to cling to it stubbornly—usually when it makes absolutely no sense and defies all logic.
It’s essentially a grotesque distortion of the idea that a person should be "as good as their word" (rather than being led around by the ears like a mule😎).
The actual point of that old adage is to serve as a warning: watch what you say. Don't make promises you can't keep, don't overextend yourself, and don't commit to things lightly.

If you really have to go around tattooing some life principle onto your brain... forget it.
It’s just not my cup of tea.

Sandra Murphy33 said:No.

A principle is just a rule someone imposes on themselves for some arbitrary reason, only to cling to it stubbornly—usually when it makes absolutely no sense and defies all logic.
It’s essentially a grotesque distortion of the idea that a person should be "as good as their word" (rather than being led around by the ears like a mule😎).
The actual point of that old adage is to serve as a warning: watch what you say. Don't make promises you can't keep, don't overextend yourself, and don't commit to things lightly.

Nietzsche once noted that a human being should be defined as an animal capable of making promises.

ruggeddriver21 said:There’s an old saying:

A bik is tied by its horns, but a man is bound by his words.

Doesn't that strike you as being deeply connected to the idea of having a principle?
What does "free interpretation" of a principle even mean, anyway?
Is it our core values? Our internal yardstick for character? Something like that...

I’ve noticed that people who actually live by a principle tend to be quite focused individuals—the kind of folks who really guard their integrity. It’s not exactly a widespread trait among the general public, though. Sometimes, having a strong sense of principle can be a loud part of your personality, and people might even call you selfish for sticking to it, but I think there’s something genuinely beautiful and valuable about it.
It essentially maps out how we relate to the world around us.
It grants us a sense of dignity, while simultaneously sending a message to society that staying true to oneself comes with a cost.

Actually, now that I’ve set the stage, I’d say a principle is simply the price we pay to remain ourselves.
And well, everything in this life has a price tag, doesn't it?
A principle is just that price.

What do you all think? Am I on the right track here?

The cost of a principle depends entirely on the "market conditions."
As long as it remains useful, it holds value.

ruggedraven36 said:Nietzsche once noted that a human being should be defined as an animal capable of making promises.

Making a promise? That’s just asking for trouble.

Harold Doyle3 said:Making a promise? That’s just asking for trouble.

Just more nonsense for the simpletons.

ruggedraven36 said:Just more nonsense for the simpletons.

More like a proverb for animals that actually believe in promises.

Harold Doyle3 said:The cost of a principle depends entirely on the "market conditions."
As long as it remains useful, it holds value.

Man, staying principled is tough. It’s exactly what you said—it’s a reflection of the market.
What’s the point of having principles if you're broke?
What good are they when you're starving?

I mean, what are principles actually *for*? Are they just some way we choose to carry ourselves around others?
Does anyone ever introduce themselves like this: "Good day... my name is Mr. Johnny, and I live by certain principles.">
The response would almost certainly be, "And what exactly are those principles for, sir?"
- Principles act as a sort of personal discipline—a way to measure the world around me. It isn't some universal standard, but rather a private metric.
A principle is a personal choice.

There are quite a few different ways to look at it.
For instance,

Principle 1:
- I don't want to buy American products because I feel Americans are responsible for a lot of the world's problems.

Does that make sense? Does such a principle even hold water?
Well, for the person practicing it, it absolutely does.
It's an intentional choice. An internal boundary. A standard set by one's own conscience.

But hey, how much "sense" it actually makes is probably a debate worth having!

Harold Doyle3 said:More like a proverb for animals that actually believe in promises.

Nietzsche was getting at the idea that being able to make a promise is what sets humans apart—it’s what pulls us out of just being another biological organism. It’s about trust, sure, but also that ability to look forward to something, or even the sting of disappointment when things fall through. If we couldn't find joy in a promise, we wouldn't have love, friendship, or any kind of organized society. Without that, we're just back to square one. That's why people call the phrase "a fool's errand" a way of life for those who take words too seriously. That's how Nietzsche would frame it—and honestly, I'm with him on this one.

Because they carry weight—at least for people with a shred of integrity—and because they create anticipation —especially when you're talking about children—promises shouldn't be made unless a person is absolutely certain they can follow through.
But then again, can anyone ever truly be 100% certain about anything?

To me, a promise is more an expression of good intentions than a guarantee of results; its value lies in the sentiment rather than the eventual execution. We have no way of knowing what unforeseen circumstances might derail us. No one can actually guarantee the future, not even prophets.

What I find most ironic is that the Bible itself advises against making oaths or swearing by anything at all (Mt 5:34). Yet, despite that, American culture is saturated with various forms of commitments and vows; in fact, much of our social structure is built upon them.😁

ruggeddriver21 said:Man, staying principled is tough. It’s exactly what you said—it’s a reflection of the market.
What’s the point of having principles if you're broke?
What good are they when you're starving?

I mean, what are principles actually *for*? Are they just some way we choose to carry ourselves around others?
Does anyone ever introduce themselves like this: "Good day... my name is Mr. Johnny, and I live by certain principles.">
The response would almost certainly be, "And what exactly are those principles for, sir?"
- Principles act as a sort of personal discipline—a way to measure the world around me. It isn't some universal standard, but rather a private metric.
A principle is a personal choice.

There are quite a few different ways to look at it.
For instance,

Principle 1:
- I don't want to buy American products because I feel Americans are responsible for a lot of the world's problems.

Does that make sense? Does such a principle even hold water?
Well, for the person practicing it, it absolutely does.
It's an intentional choice. An internal boundary. A standard set by one's own conscience.

But hey, how much "sense" it actually makes is probably a debate worth having!

Aha, so this is what you categorize as principles.🙂
Fine... perhaps. But I would be more inclined to call those temporary preferences rather than true principles. Principles tend to be more permanent things—like the working principle of a transformer, or in principle (as a rule), and so on.

However, if that is what you meant, then I agree that there is logic to it—it is pure political activism, 😉even though it functions as a form of non-action: not consuming, not buying, not participating... something almost Gandhian. It is essentially passive-aggression.😬

ruggeddriver21 said:There’s an old saying:

A bik is tied by its horns, but a man is bound by his words.

Doesn't that strike you as being deeply connected to the idea of having a principle?
What does "free interpretation" of a principle even mean, anyway?
Is it our core values? Our internal yardstick for character? Something like that...

I’ve noticed that people who actually live by a principle tend to be quite focused individuals—the kind of folks who really guard their integrity. It’s not exactly a widespread trait among the general public, though. Sometimes, having a strong sense of principle can be a loud part of your personality, and people might even call you selfish for sticking to it, but I think there’s something genuinely beautiful and valuable about it.
It essentially maps out how we relate to the world around us.
It grants us a sense of dignity, while simultaneously sending a message to society that staying true to oneself comes with a cost.

Actually, now that I’ve set the stage, I’d say a principle is simply the price we pay to remain ourselves.
And well, everything in this life has a price tag, doesn't it?
A principle is just that price.

What do you all think? Am I on the right track here?

That opening line feels like one of those old folk wisdom sayings that really hits home because it's born from actual life experience, teaching us all about consistency, trust, and reliability—about making promises where nothing binds you formally except for the weight of your own word.

I think you can definitely link this to ethical principles.

As for a free interpretation of a principle—well, I think you’ve already started touching on that with your follow-up questions, suggesting that interpreting or understanding something comes down to our own personal values. These are the yardsticks derived from our character or our natural disposition which serve as our foundation for judgment; it's "free" because it's deeply personal, unique to the individual, and maybe even quite intimate since any interpretation rests entirely on the subject.

Building on that, I’d also consider the principle of contradiction, which might be tucked away deep within the core of our being, allowing for shifts or changes in our state under the influence of causality, where change happens because of a specific cause. This might explain why someone seems inconsistent compared to how they used to be, when in reality, there was a seed of that contradiction already there, waiting to trigger a future change.

Actually, now that I've set the stage for this topic, I'd say a principle is essentially the price we pay for being who we are.
And, let's face it, everything has a price.
The principle is that cost.

Everything carries a cost if we are true to ourselves, even those moments that look like inconsistency but are actually just the result of causal forces driving a change in our state.

There is a price to pay for staying true to our principles, provided they are structurally integrated into our very personality—which is the only time we can truly say a 'principle is the price of our being.' But there is also a cost to the inconsistencies that spring from that same source, acting according to our internal values. In both scenarios, we are talking about being consistent with ourselves or our persona—whoever we are or whoever we might become—but it isn't all simple, because then you have to factor in ethical principles, their inherent "shoulds," and the heavy price of trying to live up to them.

Sandra Murphy33 said:Because they carry weight—at least for people with a shred of integrity—and because they create anticipation —especially when you're talking about children—promises shouldn't be made unless a person is absolutely certain they can follow through.
But then again, can anyone ever truly be 100% certain about anything?

To me, a promise is more an expression of good intentions than a guarantee of results; its value lies in the sentiment rather than the eventual execution. We have no way of knowing what unforeseen circumstances might derail us. No one can actually guarantee the future, not even prophets.

What I find most ironic is that the Bible itself advises against making oaths or swearing by anything at all (Mt 5:34). Yet, despite that, American culture is saturated with various forms of commitments and vows; in fact, much of our social structure is built upon them.😁

Promises aren't oaths. Sure, we can't be 100% certain when we make them, but nobody expects that. What's expected is that we try hard enough to follow through—that we actually care about keeping our word. That’s why there’s even a sense of anticipation in it, precisely because there's no absolute guarantee. An absolute guarantee would kill any sense of joy.

ruggeddriver21 said:Man, staying principled is tough. It’s exactly what you said—it’s a reflection of the market.
What’s the point of having principles if you're broke?
What good are they when you're starving?

I mean, what are principles actually *for*? Are they just some way we choose to carry ourselves around others?
Does anyone ever introduce themselves like this: "Good day... my name is Mr. Johnny, and I live by certain principles.">
The response would almost certainly be, "And what exactly are those principles for, sir?"
- Principles act as a sort of personal discipline—a way to measure the world around me. It isn't some universal standard, but rather a private metric.
A principle is a personal choice.

There are quite a few different ways to look at it.
For instance,

Principle 1:
- I don't want to buy American products because I feel Americans are responsible for a lot of the world's problems.

Does that make sense? Does such a principle even hold water?
Well, for the person practicing it, it absolutely does.
It's an intentional choice. An internal boundary. A standard set by one's own conscience.

But hey, how much "sense" it actually makes is probably a debate worth having!

It reminds me of those trials in Nuremberg, where people tried to justify their actions by claiming they were just following orders.
They were incredibly principled when it came to discipline and duty... but principles ought to be scrutinized—unless they're guided by reason and conscience.

Circumstances shift. Taking a hardline principled stance today might become a heavy burden tomorrow. That principle, even if it started out noble, can eventually turn into something caricatured, if not outright destructive.
Stalin was "principled" when he refused to trade for his captured son... he viewed him as a coward, just like all the other soldiers in the Red Army.

Sandra Murphy33 said:Because they carry weight—at least for people with a shred of integrity—and because they create anticipation —especially when you're talking about children—promises shouldn't be made unless a person is absolutely certain they can follow through.
But then again, can anyone ever truly be 100% certain about anything?

To me, a promise is more an expression of good intentions than a guarantee of results; its value lies in the sentiment rather than the eventual execution. We have no way of knowing what unforeseen circumstances might derail us. No one can actually guarantee the future, not even prophets.

What I find most ironic is that the Bible itself advises against making oaths or swearing by anything at all (Mt 5:34). Yet, despite that, American culture is saturated with various forms of commitments and vows; in fact, much of our social structure is built upon them.😁

By making promises, we essentially attempt to colonize the other person.

hiddenhound3 said:By making promises, we essentially attempt to colonize the other person.

Yeah... you hit the nail on the head there.
Personally, I tend to associate that specific concept mostly with children. When dealing with adults, we might "promise" to look into something, investigate it, or get it sorted out, but it doesn't carry the same weight. A child actually lives within that promise; they exist in a state of constant anticipation, fueled by their imagination as they wait for it to come true. With an adult, a promise often functions as the exact opposite—it’s a signal that you can finally stop worrying about it and move on, assuming you actually trust the person making the claim.*

*this is a relatively new American expression 😎

Sandra Murphy33 said:Yeah... you hit the nail on the head there.
Personally, I tend to associate that specific concept mostly with children. When dealing with adults, we might "promise" to look into something, investigate it, or get it sorted out, but it doesn't carry the same weight. A child actually lives within that promise; they exist in a state of constant anticipation, fueled by their imagination as they wait for it to come true. With an adult, a promise often functions as the exact opposite—it’s a signal that you can finally stop worrying about it and move on, assuming you actually trust the person making the claim.*

*this is a relatively new American expression 😎

It is true; promises should be distributed with moderation and wisdom to serve as motivation, yet one must remain cautious. An unfulfilled promise results in disappointment for the recipient and creates a heavy psychological burden for the one who gave it.

As for adhering to rigid principles, I abandoned them long ago because I found them to be both restrictive and destructive. A principle is essentially a box that you trap yourself inside. Why would any rational person choose to do that to themselves?

ruggedraven36 said:Promises aren't oaths. Sure, we can't be 100% certain when we make them, but nobody expects that. What's expected is that we try hard enough to follow through—that we actually care about keeping our word. That’s why there’s even a sense of anticipation in it, precisely because there's no absolute guarantee. An absolute guarantee would kill any sense of joy.

You're right, ruggedraven36; a promise and an oath are two very different things...
However, I can't quite get on board with the idea that we can "look forward to things precisely because there's no guarantee."
Are you suggesting that uncertainty provides a layer of suspense that makes the eventual joy more exciting?

hiddenhound3 said:It is true; promises should be distributed with moderation and wisdom to serve as motivation, yet one must remain cautious. An unfulfilled promise results in disappointment for the recipient and creates a heavy psychological burden for the one who gave it.

As for adhering to rigid principles, I abandoned them long ago because I found them to be both restrictive and destructive. A principle is essentially a box that you trap yourself inside. Why would any rational person choose to do that to themselves?

I feel the exact same way.
Whenever I hear someone describe themselves as being "principled," my immediate translation is "inflexible"—or even just stubborn. It’s the kind of thing you often hear from someone living in some tiny, isolated town in the Midwest 😎
(It’s more polite and sophisticated to say small-town resident than 😬hillbilly
)
🙂Principles are increasingly becoming relics of the past, much like patriarchy and the outdated cult of the strong man.
The whole point of having a "principle" is usually just to prove one's own toughness to everyone else—though that strength isn't always rooted in morality... most often, it just boils down to proving how incredibly pigheaded you can be.