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What does "progress" actually mean?

Started by Alex Patel96 · · 👁 5 views · 15 replies

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Participants Alex Patel96Edward Flores4rustymaker5Elizabeth Bennett86James Lee77Michelle Alvarez8Roger Cook6slyviper9Donna Campbell6Frank Foster40bluemaker52wearyhawk83Scott Wright92
Alex Patel96 Alex Patel96 Active MemberOP
139 messages
joined Apr 2009
#1 ·
What does "progress" actually mean? Does it even matter if every single solution just spawns three more headaches? We find a cure for one disease, and suddenly we're staring down a whole new set of medical crises. Every step forward seems to drag a new mess behind it, demanding yet another fix. Chasing progress feels like a total Sisyphus task.

Plus, most of this "advancement" just tackles side issues. Meanwhile, humanity has been struggling with the same fundamental problems since the dawn of time. Sure, we have cars, electricity, and high-speed internet—we'll probably have wild tech in fifty years—but at our core, humans haven't changed a bit since the days of Jesus Christ. No matter how much the world evolves, bad things still happen constantly, all over the map. And let’s be real: it’s usually because of us.
Edward Flores4 Edward Flores4 Regular
428 messages
joined Mar 2008
#2 ·
Alex Patel96 said:What does "progress" actually mean? Does it even matter if every single solution just spawns three more headaches? We find a cure for one disease, and suddenly we're staring down a whole new set of medical crises. Every step forward seems to drag a new mess behind it, demanding yet another fix. Chasing progress feels like a total Sisyphus task.

Plus, most of this "advancement" just tackles side issues. Meanwhile, humanity has been struggling with the same fundamental problems since the dawn of time. Sure, we have cars, electricity, and high-speed internet—we'll probably have wild tech in fifty years—but at our core, humans haven't changed a bit since the days of Jesus Christ. No matter how much the world evolves, bad things still happen constantly, all over the map. And let’s be real: it’s usually because of us.

Well, for me, progress means I’m no longer stuck in some constant survival mode—you know, like trying to outrun predators on the African savanna—but instead, I can put in a few hours of work and then just spend my afternoon drifting through deep philosophical thoughts about the nature of existence. I live a comfortable life where I can indulge my various hobbies, and honestly, the internet makes all of that so much easier to pull off.

So, why isn't life with the internet just perfect... or rather, why is there always something going wrong?

Because problems are practically baked into the design. Anything that exists is inherently problematic just by virtue of existing. Life itself is a series of hurdles—I mean, you have to fight just to stay alive—so how could things ever be seamless?
rustymaker5 rustymaker5 Regular
352 messages
joined Mar 2008
#3 ·
Alex Patel96 said:What does "progress" actually mean? Does it even matter if every single solution just spawns three more headaches? We find a cure for one disease, and suddenly we're staring down a whole new set of medical crises. Every step forward seems to drag a new mess behind it, demanding yet another fix. Chasing progress feels like a total Sisyphus task.

Plus, most of this "advancement" just tackles side issues. Meanwhile, humanity has been struggling with the same fundamental problems since the dawn of time. Sure, we have cars, electricity, and high-speed internet—we'll probably have wild tech in fifty years—but at our core, humans haven't changed a bit since the days of Jesus Christ. No matter how much the world evolves, bad things still happen constantly, all over the map. And let’s be real: it’s usually because of us.

"That wasn't the right stone, Sisyphus said at the summit!"
(V. Jovičević Jov)

It’s highly likely we’re only looking at progress from one single perspective, which means the full, complex picture stays just out of our reach... I honestly think the entirety of American history serves as proof of that...
Well, whatever... I guess we just have to go find the right stone.
Elizabeth Bennett86 Elizabeth Bennett86 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Apr 2009
#4 ·
Progress means moving forward...

Whether it's learning from your own failures to refine what you already have, or simply pushing toward a new horizon... striving for a goal...
James Lee77 James Lee77 Active Member
172 messages
joined Jan 2012
#5 ·
Elizabeth Bennett86 said:Progress means moving forward...

Whether it's learning from your own failures to refine what you already have, or simply pushing toward a new horizon... striving for a goal...

I guess the whole idea of "progress" basically assumes there’s a scale of good vs. bad—like we’re aiming for a specific target when we move forward, and drifting away from it if we slip back.

When people talk about "human progress," they're assuming we all actually know what's good for humanity and what isn't. I mean, everyone has their own take on that, but honestly, people argue about it constantly and rarely see eye to eye. Since there’s no single, universal consensus on what makes life better or worse for us, and because "progress" or "regression" just depends on whatever values the person using the word holds dear, it’s pretty hard to call any opinion on it universally true.
Alex Patel96 Alex Patel96 Active MemberOP
139 messages
joined Apr 2009
#6 ·
Elizabeth Bennett86 said:Progress means moving forward...

Whether it's learning from your own failures to refine what you already have, or simply pushing toward a new horizon... striving for a goal...

But what exactly is that goal?🙂
Michelle Alvarez8 Michelle Alvarez8 Regular
299 messages
joined Nov 2015
#7 ·
Alex Patel96 said:What does "progress" actually mean? Does it even matter if every single solution just spawns three more headaches? We find a cure for one disease, and suddenly we're staring down a whole new set of medical crises. Every step forward seems to drag a new mess behind it, demanding yet another fix. Chasing progress feels like a total Sisyphus task.

Plus, most of this "advancement" just tackles side issues. Meanwhile, humanity has been struggling with the same fundamental problems since the dawn of time. Sure, we have cars, electricity, and high-speed internet—we'll probably have wild tech in fifty years—but at our core, humans haven't changed a bit since the days of Jesus Christ. No matter how much the world evolves, bad things still happen constantly, all over the map. And let’s be real: it’s usually because of us.

Which basically means we're sprinting in the completely wrong direction. 😁
Roger Cook6 Roger Cook6 Newcomer
2 messages
joined May 2009
#8 ·
Michelle Alvarez8 said:Which basically means we're sprinting in the completely wrong direction. 😁

😁😁😁

Humans are inherently destructive; it's built into our nature. It’s just the cycle of life—that natural equilibrium where one thing's decline allows another's rise.
But every shift brings change, and you could argue we've "progressed" simply because we've managed to make life easier (hardly anyone dies at 40 anymore) and longer, which remains the fundamental objective of any living creature: survival.
🙂That's why progress matters. Nature will inevitably throw obstacles our way that we have to overcome just to stay alive; anything less than striving forward would be just as much of a disruption to the balance of life.
slyviper9 slyviper9 Newcomer
2 messages
joined May 2009
#9 ·
Alex Patel96 said:What does "progress" actually mean? Does it even matter if every single solution just spawns three more headaches? We find a cure for one disease, and suddenly we're staring down a whole new set of medical crises. Every step forward seems to drag a new mess behind it, demanding yet another fix. Chasing progress feels like a total Sisyphus task.

Plus, most of this "advancement" just tackles side issues. Meanwhile, humanity has been struggling with the same fundamental problems since the dawn of time. Sure, we have cars, electricity, and high-speed internet—we'll probably have wild tech in fifty years—but at our core, humans haven't changed a bit since the days of Jesus Christ. No matter how much the world evolves, bad things still happen constantly, all over the map. And let’s be real: it’s usually because of us.

But who's to say that's even progress? People solve problems and then get hit with new ones, sure, but just because we fix something doesn't mean society or humanity is actually moving forward—it mostly just means people are trying to make their own lives a little less miserable, I guess. Like, someone gets sick and wants a cure, and then someone else comes along wanting to profit off that cure, which obviously brings its own mess of pros and cons. To me, true progress would be this drive to make life better for as many people as possible, maybe.
Alex Patel96 said:What does "progress" actually mean? Does it even matter if every single solution just spawns three more headaches? We find a cure for one disease, and suddenly we're staring down a whole new set of medical crises. Every step forward seems to drag a new mess behind it, demanding yet another fix. Chasing progress feels like a total Sisyphus task.

Plus, most of this "advancement" just tackles side issues. Meanwhile, humanity has been struggling with the same fundamental problems since the dawn of time. Sure, we have cars, electricity, and high-speed internet—we'll probably have wild tech in fifty years—but at our core, humans haven't changed a bit since the days of Jesus Christ. No matter how much the world evolves, bad things still happen constantly, all over the map. And let’s be real: it’s usually because of us.

But like, what kind of problems are we talking about here? And I don't know, I think saying the world hasn't changed isn't quite right. We've definitely changed the world, even if we ourselves stayed basically the same... which is what you're getting at, I suppose. It's just that our ambitions have shifted so much because of things like capitalism and all that. And honestly, don't look at it that way—it's not that bad things are happening more often, it's more that people just don't appreciate the good stuff enough, maybe.
Donna Campbell6 Donna Campbell6 Active Member
62 messages
joined Jan 2007
#10 ·
When you look at human history, "progress" usually just means we’re getting slightly better at the technical stuff or refining our theories—it's basically just running in circles.
The whole idea of moving forward might make sense if you're looking at small scale things, like an individual life or some tiny little group... but on a grand, cosmic level? We're basically hitting a dead end with that concept.
Frank Foster40 Frank Foster40 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Mar 2009
#11 ·
Donna Campbell6 said:When you look at human history, "progress" usually just means we’re getting slightly better at the technical stuff or refining our theories—it's basically just running in circles.
The whole idea of moving forward might make sense if you're looking at small scale things, like an individual life or some tiny little group... but on a grand, cosmic level? We're basically hitting a dead end with that concept.

I honestly feel like progress is such a double-edged sword. Don't get me wrong, there's always those great positive outcomes we're aiming for, but they almost always come with these nasty side effects trailing right behind them...
think about stuff like the ozone hole, all the pollution, the greenhouse effect, climate change... even the way infectious diseases spread more easily now... or just the endless development of different kinds of weapons 😢
And half the time, we can't even deal with the ghosts we've summoned up ourselves... 🤷 it's not like we can just hit undo, even if things go south and we desperately need to...
James Lee77 James Lee77 Active Member
172 messages
joined Jan 2012
#12 ·
slyviper9 said:But who's to say that's even progress? People solve problems and then get hit with new ones, sure, but just because we fix something doesn't mean society or humanity is actually moving forward—it mostly just means people are trying to make their own lives a little less miserable, I guess. Like, someone gets sick and wants a cure, and then someone else comes along wanting to profit off that cure, which obviously brings its own mess of pros and cons. To me, true progress would be this drive to make life better for as many people as possible, maybe.

But like, what kind of problems are we talking about here? And I don't know, I think saying the world hasn't changed isn't quite right. We've definitely changed the world, even if we ourselves stayed basically the same... which is what you're getting at, I suppose. It's just that our ambitions have shifted so much because of things like capitalism and all that. And honestly, don't look at it that way—it's not that bad things are happening more often, it's more that people just don't appreciate the good stuff enough, maybe.

But wait, is it even clear what a "better life" actually means? Like, would we all even agree on which lives are good and which ones suck?

Take Matthieu Ricard, for example. He’s sixty, lives totally alone, pretty much has nothing, no family, no kids, and hasn't had a sex life in decades. He barely owns anything to call his own. Is he living a good life or not? And would it really be "progress" if more people ended up living exactly like him?

But here's the thing—based on MRI brain scans (and what he says himself), he seems to be the happiest guy on the planet (well, at least out of everyone they've tested so far). (Check it out here.)

So, I guess... is that a "good life" if that guy is constantly experiencing pure happiness?
Edward Flores4 Edward Flores4 Regular
428 messages
joined Mar 2008
#13 ·
James Lee77 said:But wait, is it even clear what a "better life" actually means? Like, would we all even agree on which lives are good and which ones suck?

Take Matthieu Ricard, for example. He’s sixty, lives totally alone, pretty much has nothing, no family, no kids, and hasn't had a sex life in decades. He barely owns anything to call his own. Is he living a good life or not? And would it really be "progress" if more people ended up living exactly like him?

But here's the thing—based on MRI brain scans (and what he says himself), he seems to be the happiest guy on the planet (well, at least out of everyone they've tested so far). (Check it out here.)

So, I guess... is that a "good life" if that guy is constantly experiencing pure happiness?

He seems like a genuinely great guy—and he’s a fascinating case study for researchers, especially since Matthieu is also a trained scientist (molecular biology, if I recall correctly).

Still, when you look at that kind of happiness—the kind generated entirely from "within"—it doesn't seem all that different from the rush you get from MDMA.
bluemaker52 bluemaker52 Member
43 messages
joined Jan 2009
#14 ·
Elizabeth Bennett86 said:Progress means moving forward...

Whether it's learning from your own failures to refine what you already have, or simply pushing toward a new horizon... striving for a goal...

But what exactly defines "forward"?
To me, progress is really just a change in location—moving from point A to point B.
Sometimes, that "location" is a state of mind where you finally start to understand who you truly are.
Life works exactly that way, doesn't it?
wearyhawk83 wearyhawk83 Active Member
170 messages
joined Feb 2015
#15 ·
We honestly don't know enough to even try defining it—any other attempt is just guesswork and making fun of ourselves.
Scott Wright92 Scott Wright92 Member
21 messages
joined Jun 2009
#16 ·
James Lee77 said:But wait, is it even clear what a "better life" actually means? Like, would we all even agree on which lives are good and which ones suck?

Take Matthieu Ricard, for example. He’s sixty, lives totally alone, pretty much has nothing, no family, no kids, and hasn't had a sex life in decades. He barely owns anything to call his own. Is he living a good life or not? And would it really be "progress" if more people ended up living exactly like him?

But here's the thing—based on MRI brain scans (and what he says himself), he seems to be the happiest guy on the planet (well, at least out of everyone they've tested so far). (Check it out here.)

So, I guess... is that a "good life" if that guy is constantly experiencing pure happiness?

I don't see the mystery here.

To me, it looks perfectly logical that he's happy.

(And honestly, you can actually see the progress: people are constantly chasing things. All human "progress" is just a constant scramble toward whatever we think we need next.

This guy has moved forward to a point where most of those "needs" simply don't exist for him anymore. If that isn't real progress, I don't know what is.)

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