Why did Jesus die?

I feel like a complete idiot right now, but whatever
from what I gather, Jesus was accused of all sorts of things, but I'm really stuck on the part where he redeemed our sins through his death... like, why? How exactly does his passing lead to our salvation?

Angela Martin20 said:I feel like a complete idiot right now, but whatever
from what I gather, Jesus was accused of all sorts of things, but I'm really stuck on the part where he redeemed our sins through his death... like, why? How exactly does his passing lead to our salvation?

It’s actually the exact opposite: Christ "redeemed" our souls by essentially staking His Power on every single soul—embedding a protective, rescuing strength within us. It's a spark that we can fan into a flame through living a consecrated life, using it to burn away everything in our souls that ties us to the darkness. Christ didn't die for us, nor did He give up His Life (the foundation) just to let go of it; He simply lent a portion of His Power to every soul.

It’s actually the exact opposite: Christ "redeemed" our souls by pledging a portion of His Power to every single soul , embedding a protective and liberating strength within us —a spark that we can fan into a blaze through a devoted life to burn away everything tethering us to the darkness. It isn't that Christ died for us or gave up His very essence to relinquish it; He simply lent a fragment of His Power to every soul.

I've been studying faith for 16 years. I read about all kinds of religions—Christianity and Judaism have always fascinated me—but I feel like I've burned through a few million brain cells trying to wrap my head around this. It just won't click. 🙄 It's a total mystery.

Honestly, I don't get why people make their faith so complicated. As someone who's spent years diving into religious questions, I'm struggling to follow what you wrote here. If I can't grasp it, how is someone with zero background in religion—whether it's Christianity or Islam—supposed to understand?

Angela Martin20 said:I feel like a complete idiot right now, but whatever
from what I gather, Jesus was accused of all sorts of things, but I'm really stuck on the part where he redeemed our sins through his death... like, why? How exactly does his passing lead to our salvation?

You aren't clueless; it’s always a good idea to ask. 🙂

I suppose the answer to your questions would be this: Jesus of Nazareth died because everything in creation is subject to death.
You, me, even those who haven't been born yet... everyone has to die.

As for the redemption of sins via Jesus's sacrifice—that feels more like a religious tax on faith rather than something inherently tied to him. It’s a bit like claiming Niki Lauda died just so God could forgive everyone. It seems to me like a nonsensical and untrue claim spread by clergy simply because it secures their wealth and comfortable lifestyles. God isn't a priest, and he doesn't need money, nor does he require anyone's painful suffering. Best,

rowdyhawk10 said:You aren't clueless; it’s always a good idea to ask. 🙂

I suppose the answer to your questions would be this: Jesus of Nazareth died because everything in creation is subject to death.
You, me, even those who haven't been born yet... everyone has to die.

As for the redemption of sins via Jesus's sacrifice—that feels more like a religious tax on faith rather than something inherently tied to him. It’s a bit like claiming Niki Lauda died just so God could forgive everyone. It seems to me like a nonsensical and untrue claim spread by clergy simply because it secures their wealth and comfortable lifestyles. God isn't a priest, and he doesn't need money, nor does he require anyone's painful suffering. Best,

It sounds like you aren't really familiar with Christianity or its actual teachings. What do you mean, "what priests"? Jesus dying on the cross for human sins is the single most important thing in Christianity. It’s the entire foundation.
God became human specifically so He could die for us. That's why we say in Christianity that God is love.

Honestly, this feels like one of those million-dollar questions where you’re just spinning your wheels, asking why, then immediately answering with why, and somehow ending up right back where you started.

Harold Reyes3 said:

It’s actually the exact opposite: Christ "redeemed" our souls by pledging a portion of His Power to every single soul , embedding a protective and liberating strength within us —a spark that we can fan into a blaze through a devoted life to burn away everything tethering us to the darkness. It isn't that Christ died for us or gave up His very essence to relinquish it; He simply lent a fragment of His Power to every soul.

I've been studying faith for 16 years. I read about all kinds of religions—Christianity and Judaism have always fascinated me—but I feel like I've burned through a few million brain cells trying to wrap my head around this. It just won't click. 🙄 It's a total mystery.

Honestly, I don't get why people make their faith so complicated. As someone who's spent years diving into religious questions, I'm struggling to follow what you wrote here. If I can't grasp it, how is someone with zero background in religion—whether it's Christianity or Islam—supposed to understand?

The scriptures regarding salvation state that Jesus placed His spirit within every soul—basically, He gave His spiritual energy to everyone as a deposit, and now it’s on us to multiply that energy. What did Jesus say about that deposit? If you multiply it, you're capable and ready; if you don't, you're just a failure.

Your issue—as a Muslim—is that you won't acknowledge Jesus's intervention or that divine deposit because you've put all your chips on Muhammad. That's why you're going to lose everything—because you didn't believe the one who said, "Salvation comes through me alone."

rowdyhawk10 said:You aren't clueless; it’s always a good idea to ask. 🙂

I suppose the answer to your questions would be this: Jesus of Nazareth died because everything in creation is subject to death.
You, me, even those who haven't been born yet... everyone has to die.

As for the redemption of sins via Jesus's sacrifice—that feels more like a religious tax on faith rather than something inherently tied to him. It’s a bit like claiming Niki Lauda died just so God could forgive everyone. It seems to me like a nonsensical and untrue claim spread by clergy simply because it secures their wealth and comfortable lifestyles. God isn't a priest, and he doesn't need money, nor does he require anyone's painful suffering. Best,

So what about that part from the Bible, "Freely you have received; freely give"? Think the priests forgot how to hide that one?

Look, even Muhammad's Islam gets massive funding today (Saudi Arabia, for example).

Angela Martin20 said:I feel like a complete idiot right now, but whatever
from what I gather, Jesus was accused of all sorts of things, but I'm really stuck on the part where he redeemed our sins through his death... like, why? How exactly does his passing lead to our salvation?

Jesus was sent with the message of monotheism, just like all the other messengers of Allah, preaching a faith that calls for the oneness of God. However, modern Christian doctrine stands in direct opposition to that monotheistic message. When people talk about Christianity today, the first things that come to mind are the Trinity, the crucifixion, atonement, and the Incarnation. By "Trinity," they mean "that within one God exist the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—essentially one being whose power and glory are equal."

The Christian interpretation of this phenomenon is that God's oneness is real, yet so is the Trinity; that He is truly one while simultaneously being three, where each member of the Trinity possesses specific attributes the others do not, yet they remain one single being, equal in power and glory, with none preceding the other in existence!??
This whole "Trinity" concept—which they claim is monotheism, even though the term itself implies polytheism—is frankly incomprehensible. The term "Trinity" isn't mentioned once in the Old Testament or the New Testament; rather, it's assumed that the first person to actually use the term was Tertullian in the 2nd century. This suggests that Christians adopted the belief in the Trinity from the pagan religions that were dominant during that era.

"O follower of the Book, do not deviate from your faith, and speak only the truth regarding Allah! The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, is merely a messenger of Allah, created by His word which He bestowed upon Mary, giving him life; therefore, believe in Allah and His messengers and do not say, 'They are three!' Stop, it is better for you! Allah is only one God, glory be to Him, would He have a son?!"

''And when the angels said: 'Mary, Allah gives you tidings of a son who will be created by His word, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, esteemed in this world and the next, and one of those close to Allah! He will speak to people in the cradle, as well as when grown, and will be among the righteous!' She replied: 'My Lord, how can I have a son when no man has touched me?!' 'Thus it shall be,' He said, 'for Allah creates whatever He wills! When He decrees something, He simply says, "Be," and it is!"''

By "crucifixion," Christians refer to being nailed to a wooden cross.
Jews believe that the Messiah was an unbeliever, which is why he was persecuted, and that he died by being crucified.
Christians, however, also believe that the Messiah died on a cross, justifying this "crucifixion" as an atonement for the sins committed by their forefather, Adam—specifically, eating from the forbidden tree—and the subsequent passing of that sin down to his descendants, which provoked God's wrath against them. Therefore, they argue a mediator was necessary to act as atonement for this sin by dying on the cross. They claim this mediator, this savior, must be sinless, and that this could only be the son of God—who, according to their belief, is actually God Himself. For his atonement to work, a physical body was required, which serves as their reason for the Incarnation—that Allah, who is far above what they attribute to Him, took the form of Jesus, who emerged from Mary's womb and eventually died on the cross to redeem humanity.

Regarding current Christian doctrines, I find myself posing the following questions:
First, considering it is inherently unjust to punish someone other than the one who committed the sin, how can Jesus be punished for Adam's sin or the sins of his descendants?

Secondly, Christians believe that the Messiah is God's own son—which brings up a rather pointed question: why would the grace through which God showered His entire creation involve letting His "son" endure such intense suffering, humiliation, and a truly horrific death?
Thirdly, if we look at the Christian belief, they claim the Messiah is the son of God and that He is actually God Himself—and then suggest He undergoes the humiliation of the crucifixion? Honestly, can you imagine anything more incredulous than that?
Just as the crucifixion remains an incomprehensible mystery, the question of the Incarnation is equally baffling. It implies that God was a developing embryo within Mary's womb, progressing through the standard stages of gestation like any other biological life, nourished by blood, before finally entering the world in the exact same way we all do.
Anyone with even a shred of common sense simply cannot remain indifferent to such an absolute disgrace.
On the other hand, their entire argument hinges on a question that essentially forces itself upon you: Who exactly was running the show while God was tucked away in a woman's womb?
Incarnation, reality itself—it’s really nothing more than a convenient justification for that so-called crucifixion and the subsequent redemption they all keep preaching about.

The unbelievers are those who claim, "God is the Messiah, the son of Mary!" Yet the Messiah himself explicitly instructed, "O children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord!" Anyone who attempts to equate another being with God will find themselves barred from entering Heaven; instead, their dwelling shall be Hell, and there won't be a single soul on this earth capable of coming to the aid of such oppressors.

It is absolutely essential to point out that the entirety of Christianity essentially boils down to the question of the Crucifixion. At its core, the call to follow this faith rests entirely upon that single event, because if you strip it away, there isn't anything else left that would actually draw followers toward the concept of the Cross and the redemption of sins—both past and future.

In Islamic belief, the Messiah is viewed as one of the prophets sent to the people of Israel, tasked with preaching the oneness of God and delivering His divine message. He arrived not to overturn what came before, but to follow and complete the laws established by Moses. Despite this, his own people branded him a liar and plotted to take his life; however, God intervened, saving him and raising him up to heaven.

The Messiah, the son of Mary, is nothing more than a messenger—and let’s not forget that messengers have been coming and going long before him. His mother was a woman of truth, and both of them lived as humans who relied on food for sustenance. Just look at the clear evidence we present to them, and then observe how they stubbornly turn away.

He instructs them in the Book of Wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. He sends him as a messenger to the sons of Israel.

"And then there’s that claim regarding their own words: 'We killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah...' But they didn't actually kill him, nor did they crucify him; it was merely an illusion to them. Those who held differing views about him were simply skeptical; they didn't possess any actual certainty, they were just speculating. It is an absolute fact that they didn't kill him, as Allah raised him up to Himself. And Allah is All-Powerful and All-Knowing."

Given that the Quran, the final messenger from God, presents a vision that diverges from modern Christian doctrine, one could argue that the faith brought by the Messiah has undergone significant distortion over time. Anyone who takes the time to study the history of the Messiah, his divine calling, and the trajectory of his followers will discover that the very inception of his message was met with intense persecution and oppression that spanned several centuries. Even within Christian tradition itself, there is an acknowledgment of this systemic hostility; they recount being targeted first by the Jews, which led to the widespread killing and displacement of the Messiah's followers across various corners of the globe. This was followed by two centuries of Roman oppression, a period during which Christians endured relentless hardship and humiliation. In those days, simply being accused of being a Christian was often enough to serve as sufficient evidence for someone to face the death penalty.
Persecution acts as one of the primary catalysts for distorting the Messiah's faith. If we want any hope of maintaining the stability of the message—if we actually want to anchor it within the human soul, live by its tenets, and empower missionaries to spread it among the masses—we absolutely require an environment of security and robust support. Without that foundation, the old ways will inevitably overwhelm the new, bleeding their own colors into everything, while the opposition finds nothing but fertile ground to plant their own ideas within the movement.
Since the Messiah was sent specifically to the Jews, he actually instructed his followers not to wander off into Gentile territories to preach the faith (Matthew 10:5). And yet, they went ahead and broke that rule almost immediately, heading straight toward the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, and various other pagan groups. Furthermore, because the Messiah’s message was intended exclusively for the Jews, it lacked any secular authority to compete with established paganism; consequently, paganism simply overwhelmed it. You see this reflected everywhere—the concept of the "Trinity" pops up among Hindus, the ancient Egyptians, the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, and the Phoenicians, among many others. Even the idea of a "redeemer and incarnation" is something you'll find within Hindu traditions as well.

"And those who concoct lies about Allah and then persist in them—they truly are nothing more than oppressors!"

Out of all the religious beliefs ever conceived—including those from the most primitive tribes—the idea that God created Himself in the form of a son just so that the son (who is basically Him) could die to save humanity from His own wrath is easily one of the most nonsensical things ever dreamt up.
If God truly wanted to save mankind (from Himself) because of some ancestral sins, He probably would have handled it in a much more logical way, like through a direct revelation or a simple command.
Plus, the whole crucifixion thing ended up becoming the foundation for centuries of hatred toward the Jewish people, and you'd think God would have known he was sowing seeds of death for an innocent nation by doing it that way.

Is it possible there was just some massive misunderstanding about how things were perceived back then? Like, what if those chariots of fire described in the Bible were actually spacecraft, and people at the time just didn't have any other vocabulary to describe what they were seeing? Or maybe Jesus wasn't just an ordinary man, but part of some much more advanced race, just like the other figures in the Bible—Moses included? I mean, how could a regular person actually part the sea, walk on water, heal the blind, and all that? Maybe people just couldn't find any other way to explain such beings than calling them the 'son of God' and stuff like that.
Could that actually be it?

Megan Long21 said:Jesus was sent with the message of monotheism, just like all the other messengers of Allah, preaching a faith that calls for the oneness of God. However, modern Christian doctrine stands in direct opposition to that monotheistic message. When people talk about Christianity today, the first things that come to mind are the Trinity, the crucifixion, atonement, and the Incarnation. By "Trinity," they mean "that within one God exist the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—essentially one being whose power and glory are equal."

The Christian interpretation of this phenomenon is that God's oneness is real, yet so is the Trinity; that He is truly one while simultaneously being three, where each member of the Trinity possesses specific attributes the others do not, yet they remain one single being, equal in power and glory, with none preceding the other in existence!??
This whole "Trinity" concept—which they claim is monotheism, even though the term itself implies polytheism—is frankly incomprehensible. The term "Trinity" isn't mentioned once in the Old Testament or the New Testament; rather, it's assumed that the first person to actually use the term was Tertullian in the 2nd century. This suggests that Christians adopted the belief in the Trinity from the pagan religions that were dominant during that era.

"O follower of the Book, do not deviate from your faith, and speak only the truth regarding Allah! The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, is merely a messenger of Allah, created by His word which He bestowed upon Mary, giving him life; therefore, believe in Allah and His messengers and do not say, 'They are three!' Stop, it is better for you! Allah is only one God, glory be to Him, would He have a son?!"

''And when the angels said: 'Mary, Allah gives you tidings of a son who will be created by His word, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, esteemed in this world and the next, and one of those close to Allah! He will speak to people in the cradle, as well as when grown, and will be among the righteous!' She replied: 'My Lord, how can I have a son when no man has touched me?!' 'Thus it shall be,' He said, 'for Allah creates whatever He wills! When He decrees something, He simply says, "Be," and it is!"''

By "crucifixion," Christians refer to being nailed to a wooden cross.
Jews believe that the Messiah was an unbeliever, which is why he was persecuted, and that he died by being crucified.
Christians, however, also believe that the Messiah died on a cross, justifying this "crucifixion" as an atonement for the sins committed by their forefather, Adam—specifically, eating from the forbidden tree—and the subsequent passing of that sin down to his descendants, which provoked God's wrath against them. Therefore, they argue a mediator was necessary to act as atonement for this sin by dying on the cross. They claim this mediator, this savior, must be sinless, and that this could only be the son of God—who, according to their belief, is actually God Himself. For his atonement to work, a physical body was required, which serves as their reason for the Incarnation—that Allah, who is far above what they attribute to Him, took the form of Jesus, who emerged from Mary's womb and eventually died on the cross to redeem humanity.

Regarding current Christian doctrines, I find myself posing the following questions:
First, considering it is inherently unjust to punish someone other than the one who committed the sin, how can Jesus be punished for Adam's sin or the sins of his descendants?

Secondly, Christians believe that the Messiah is God's own son—which brings up a rather pointed question: why would the grace through which God showered His entire creation involve letting His "son" endure such intense suffering, humiliation, and a truly horrific death?
Thirdly, if we look at the Christian belief, they claim the Messiah is the son of God and that He is actually God Himself—and then suggest He undergoes the humiliation of the crucifixion? Honestly, can you imagine anything more incredulous than that?
Just as the crucifixion remains an incomprehensible mystery, the question of the Incarnation is equally baffling. It implies that God was a developing embryo within Mary's womb, progressing through the standard stages of gestation like any other biological life, nourished by blood, before finally entering the world in the exact same way we all do.
Anyone with even a shred of common sense simply cannot remain indifferent to such an absolute disgrace.
On the other hand, their entire argument hinges on a question that essentially forces itself upon you: Who exactly was running the show while God was tucked away in a woman's womb?
Incarnation, reality itself—it’s really nothing more than a convenient justification for that so-called crucifixion and the subsequent redemption they all keep preaching about.

The unbelievers are those who claim, "God is the Messiah, the son of Mary!" Yet the Messiah himself explicitly instructed, "O children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord!" Anyone who attempts to equate another being with God will find themselves barred from entering Heaven; instead, their dwelling shall be Hell, and there won't be a single soul on this earth capable of coming to the aid of such oppressors.

It is absolutely essential to point out that the entirety of Christianity essentially boils down to the question of the Crucifixion. At its core, the call to follow this faith rests entirely upon that single event, because if you strip it away, there isn't anything else left that would actually draw followers toward the concept of the Cross and the redemption of sins—both past and future.

In Islamic belief, the Messiah is viewed as one of the prophets sent to the people of Israel, tasked with preaching the oneness of God and delivering His divine message. He arrived not to overturn what came before, but to follow and complete the laws established by Moses. Despite this, his own people branded him a liar and plotted to take his life; however, God intervened, saving him and raising him up to heaven.

The Messiah, the son of Mary, is nothing more than a messenger—and let’s not forget that messengers have been coming and going long before him. His mother was a woman of truth, and both of them lived as humans who relied on food for sustenance. Just look at the clear evidence we present to them, and then observe how they stubbornly turn away.

He instructs them in the Book of Wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. He sends him as a messenger to the sons of Israel.

"And then there’s that claim regarding their own words: 'We killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah...' But they didn't actually kill him, nor did they crucify him; it was merely an illusion to them. Those who held differing views about him were simply skeptical; they didn't possess any actual certainty, they were just speculating. It is an absolute fact that they didn't kill him, as Allah raised him up to Himself. And Allah is All-Powerful and All-Knowing."

Given that the Quran, the final messenger from God, presents a vision that diverges from modern Christian doctrine, one could argue that the faith brought by the Messiah has undergone significant distortion over time. Anyone who takes the time to study the history of the Messiah, his divine calling, and the trajectory of his followers will discover that the very inception of his message was met with intense persecution and oppression that spanned several centuries. Even within Christian tradition itself, there is an acknowledgment of this systemic hostility; they recount being targeted first by the Jews, which led to the widespread killing and displacement of the Messiah's followers across various corners of the globe. This was followed by two centuries of Roman oppression, a period during which Christians endured relentless hardship and humiliation. In those days, simply being accused of being a Christian was often enough to serve as sufficient evidence for someone to face the death penalty.
Persecution acts as one of the primary catalysts for distorting the Messiah's faith. If we want any hope of maintaining the stability of the message—if we actually want to anchor it within the human soul, live by its tenets, and empower missionaries to spread it among the masses—we absolutely require an environment of security and robust support. Without that foundation, the old ways will inevitably overwhelm the new, bleeding their own colors into everything, while the opposition finds nothing but fertile ground to plant their own ideas within the movement.
Since the Messiah was sent specifically to the Jews, he actually instructed his followers not to wander off into Gentile territories to preach the faith (Matthew 10:5). And yet, they went ahead and broke that rule almost immediately, heading straight toward the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, and various other pagan groups. Furthermore, because the Messiah’s message was intended exclusively for the Jews, it lacked any secular authority to compete with established paganism; consequently, paganism simply overwhelmed it. You see this reflected everywhere—the concept of the "Trinity" pops up among Hindus, the ancient Egyptians, the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, and the Phoenicians, among many others. Even the idea of a "redeemer and incarnation" is something you'll find within Hindu traditions as well.

"And those who concoct lies about Allah and then persist in them—they truly are nothing more than oppressors!"

Why are you drifting off-topic? Look, if the Quran actually includes Mary in the Trinity, then quit bringing up the Catholic version—talk about the Quranic one instead. You need to actually prove that the Quran is right when it claims Christians include Mary in the Trinity.

The Law was clear. But his own people? They called him a liar. They actually tried to take him out—straight up wanted him dead—but God stepped in, saved him, and brought him up to heaven.

So, who exactly was crucified?

It seems like you guys have a hard time accepting that Jesus basically looked the executioners in the eye and won—defying their whole plan to nail him to a cross just to send him off. But let’s be real: the risen Jesus, who completely crushed the crucifixion, is pure greatness. That's lightyears beyond some idea of Allah's ego trying to swap him out for someone else. Didn't Jesus himself say he could call on angels to stop the whole crucifixion thing if he wanted? He chose a different path for a reason.

You think Christianity hasn't dealt with enough forgers already—now we need Allah too?

Your issue is just like a Muslim who refuses to acknowledge Jesus's intervention and message because they've put all their chips on Muhammad. You're going to lose everything because you didn't put your faith in the one who said, "Salvation comes through me alone."

You don't believe in Jesus any more than I do. As Muslims, we are the only faith outside of Christianity that includes belief in Jesus Christ in our core tenets. If you don't believe in Jesus, you aren't a Muslim, period.

And honestly, what you're saying makes zero sense to me. It’s totally illogical to suggest he would come here to die for my sins if I'm the one committing them. I should be the one answering for my own mistakes.

Think about it: would it be fair for a judge to punish you for my crimes? Like, if I murder an innocent person, and then the court looks at you and says, "You're carrying Aaron's sins, so you're the one going to jail," is that justice? No way! It isn't!

It's the exact same thing with Jesus. And what does it even mean to you, this idea that he carries our sins? Does it mean we can sin as much as we want and still slide into heaven just because you claim Jesus paid the tab? That kind of thinking is dangerous. If people believe they can just do whatever they want because Jesus already redeemed them, it could lead to absolute chaos!🙄

The whole saga regarding Jesus and His death on the cross is really just a continuation of some adult fairy tale that started being spun back in the Book of Genesis. In the beginning, a perfect God created angels to serve Him—which, if you think about it for even a second, reveals a massive logical hole in the narrative. If God is truly perfect, ideal, and all-powerful, He doesn't actually *need* anything. Period. He certainly doesn't need a fleet of angels acting as cosmic housekeepers. What exactly were they supposed to be doing? Polishing the celestial floors, scrubbing the heavenly windows, vacuuming up stardust with divine vacuums? When God gets hungry, does He need someone to whip up lunch or dinner, or maybe a little mid-afternoon snack? Does He need His bed made before retiring for the night? Does He need someone to set His alarm clock?
And if God felt like pampering Himself, he’d need someone to trim His beard, clip his nails, or tidy up His hair. Some angels would probably have been tasked with telling jokes to cheer Him up when He was in a mood, or singing songs all day long—since, you know, heavenly record players hadn't been invented yet. When one of the few somewhat clever angels, the one known as Lucifer, realized how exhausting this repetitive singing was (he practically lost his voice constantly shouting "glory of God"), he decided to stage a rebellion. And just like that, one hoarse throat—long before God even created Adam and Eve—sealed the fate of humanity. So, here is the setup: Lucifer rebels, loses the war, and gets tossed into hell. But how on earth was he supposed to escape from there!? Not much time passed before God created Adam and Eve. Lucifer managed to sneak out of paradise by camouflaging himself as a snake. He tricked Eve, who then ate the forbidden fruit right along with Adam. This infuriated God, so He kicked the first couple out of the Garden of Eden and made them mortal. Still, God was supposedly kind enough to promise He would send His son to rescue them from sin—or rather, the eternal death of the soul. But honestly, God could have fixed that without sending His son at all. He did something similar for the Virgin Mary while she was still in the womb of St. Anne, Mary's mother. That way, Mary was born without original sin. And that was all before the birth of the redeemer, Jesus. (Which makes sense, assuming she gave birth to Him twenty years later).
It is easy to conclude that this is nothing more than a common fairy tale that bears no resemblance to reality, though it serves as a very convenient way to present certain ideas to simple-minded people. The catch is, those simple people aren't allowed to think for themselves or ask questions. That is DANGEROUS for any RELIGION. That is why theology exists—to provide explanations for everything. They call it: THE MYSTERY OF FAITH.
Back in the day, theologians had an even more dangerous mechanism for banning those types of inquiries: THE HOLY INQUISITION!!

I honestly think the biggest mess we deal with is just people failing to distinguish between an ABSOLUTE GOD and a RELATIVE GOD.
The God you read about in the Bible is definitely a RELATIVE GOD—the one who brought life to this earth—but he isn't the ABSOLUTE GOD. You know, the creator of the entire universe and all of reality? In my view, He’s the Father of that RELATIVE god... okay, now things actually start making sense.

Angela Martin20 said:I honestly think the biggest mess we deal with is just people failing to distinguish between an ABSOLUTE GOD and a RELATIVE GOD.
The God you read about in the Bible is definitely a RELATIVE GOD—the one who brought life to this earth—but he isn't the ABSOLUTE GOD. You know, the creator of the entire universe and all of reality? In my view, He’s the Father of that RELATIVE god... okay, now things actually start making sense.

There is one thing we simply cannot overlook here: we are the ones who essentially invented the concept of God and assigned Him specific characteristics.

And let’s not forget—there’s really only one Truth 😉
We can’t even wrap our heads around an absolute God, you know? That kind of power that actually designed the entire universe... but "relative" truth? Well, that could be anything. Maybe it’s exactly how the Bible describes it, or maybe we're just looking at the leader of some superior race that planted life here in the first place. I mean, we probably just call it 'God' because we're so awestruck by whatever force actually built this whole thing. 🙂

Angela Martin20 said:I feel like a complete idiot right now, but whatever
from what I gather, Jesus was accused of all sorts of things, but I'm really stuck on the part where he redeemed our sins through his death... like, why? How exactly does his passing lead to our salvation?

In the Old Testament, you've got salvation from sin and pleasing God through the sacrifice of pure creatures—like a lamb or whatever 🙂—but in the New Testament, those sacrifices aren't needed anymore because Jesus stepped up and took that burden on Himself. The whole point of His suffering and death was to show just how much humans matter and how much God loves us, by sacrificing the most innocent being imaginable—His own son. Through His sacrifice, Jesus gives people a fresh start...

First off, hello. I’d say we’re dealing with adults here, though I find myself wondering where exactly these people have been living all this time—where they went to school, or if they’ve ever actually sat down to contemplate the nature of existence at all. It seems everyone here takes everything so incredibly literally, whereas all those sacred texts were written using allegory; you really need to exercise a bit of imagination and, frankly, quite a lot of wisdom to process what’s written on those pages. It’s a mistake to jump into an argument when your understanding of life is so fundamentally grounded in the mundane. Before anything else, one has to consider WHO was actually writing and transmitting this TRUTH. After all, aren't we all witnesses to the fact that people write everything from simple short stories to doctoral dissertations that might not have any bearing on actual reality? If someone wants to understand life and debate its meaning, they should perhaps start by reading George Orwell’s *Animal Farm*; once they grasp what the author was trying to convey there, they won't find it such a monumental task to decipher the so-called Holy Scripture. The question of who decided which writings would be deemed Holy and which would not is absolutely paramount. To simply accept something as truth just because it was imposed upon us by tyrants and butchers—well, you have to admit, that’s pretty foolish (though I suppose some folks here feel right at home with that approach, likely doing the exact same thing today under the guise of FAITH). First, we are presented with the TEN COMMANDMENTS that God gave to Moses, yet somehow, look at that, "Thou shalt not kill" doesn't show up until the fifth spot, does it? Perhaps someone swapped the tablets, or maybe we just haven't considered which side one is supposed to start reading from (since some read left to right and others right to left). There is so much more to be said about what is written in the words of the PROPHET. In the Quran, it says that if you harm one person, you have harmed God. For anyone with half a brain, that’s plenty; yet later it suggests stoning a man. I’d love to know if the enlightened Muhammad actually said something that contradicts his own initial teaching. I find it hard to believe; he was truly an enlightened man. It would be reasonable to be able to accept what you think is right while rejecting the chaff from the wheat, but is it truly rational to believe everything handed down to you by someone who doesn't even possess a peaceful conscience? I’m thinking specifically of Paul, who was a persecutor before he wasn't, and who largely drives the modern interpretation of the Bible. It would be lovely if thinking people applied a little critical thought to their own beliefs first; I’m not saying anyone shouldn't believe, because a believer believes, and others believe too.

Jesus, or Isa, or even Yehua—though I’m no Hebrew scholar, and while Yehua sounds remarkably close to Yahweh, it might just be a coincidence—it feels more like he lived his life as a sort of living demonstration, much like a masterclass in how one ought to exist if they truly intend to sit at the right hand of God. He started by learning from those wiser than himself; back then, those were the Nazarenes, where he essentially completed his foundational education by choice. Even as a child, there was this sense of enlightenment about him, which isn't exactly a rare phenomenon these days if you look at the concept of indigo children. Later, he spent time trading wisdom until he reached maturity, eventually setting out to fulfill his mission to save humanity, especially since people during that era were utterly devoid of empathy—just imagine, leaders like Herod were ordering the slaughter of infants as if it were nothing. He could have bypassed all that struggle entirely, but he genuinely loved people because we are all part of one single being, a truth he understood deeply. So, how did Jesus, Isa, or Yehua actually save mankind? He didn't hurt a soul, he never raised a hand against anyone, he harbored no ill will, avoided ugly words, helped everyone he met, and even befriended his enemies until they became friends; in that sense, he lived a life without true enemies. Jesus was indeed God, though the real question lies in what we actually mean when we use that noun, and what that word fundamentally signifies. I’m convinced that 99.9 percent of people don't even grasp the weight of that word in any language, regardless of how they address the divine; after all, can anyone really tell someone else that their specific name for God is "incorrect"? It's just a noun, much like the name of any Prophet, no matter what they were called. And how do we perceive these Prophets? Take Jesus, whose name isn't always honored; he is often depicted looking like a Nordic man, despite the reality of who was living in Palestine at the time. Most people there had dark skin, perhaps just a shade lighter than someone from Central Africa, which is why white travelers would head to Egypt to seek refuge, a place where people have remained quite dark both then and now. What matters is the teaching of Jesus—the example itself—while everything else is just empty chatter, much like the teachings of other Prophets. People need to learn how to distinguish the core doctrine from the various additions that have been tacked on over the centuries; paper can withstand any lie, and since the Prophets themselves didn't write anything down, we must remember that the vibration of spoken words carries immense power and weight. Think on that.