Posts by William Gonzalez3

Rebecca Rivera2 said:It isn't an ad hominem; I am merely noting that you seem to have lost the thread of your own argument by masking what is essentially a witch hunt under the guise of "etiquette," all in an attempt to prove how coercive and harmful such formalities can be.

Quincy:

No, it wouldn't be; rather, it would be one of the main beaches in that area. And I’d appreciate it if you didn't keep being obtuse about it.

Look, you could call my own post "obtuse" if you like, but if you aren't looking for a real answer, why bother posting at all? 🤷 In any case, you haven't actually provided anything concrete, offered any real arguments, or even said anything that sounds remotely logical.

Quincy:

No, they aren't becoming more frequent exceptions. On average, the ratio of quality content to total garbage remains constant. It’s up to the individual to choose.

There is no inherent mechanism that regulates a steady ratio between high-quality content and pure junk. Junk is easy and fast to produce, and it doesn't last long. For a consumerist mindset and under the reign of neoliberal capitalism, almost any piece of trash is a highly profitable product. Furthermore, it is significantly easier to dull people's wits than to enlighten them, which creates a perfectly logical causal link between intellectual stagnation, the mass production of cheap filler, and the successful sale of that very same filler.

Quincy:

And what exactly does that have to do with the tragic disappearance of etiquette?

It has everything to do with current social pressures and the active dulling of the public mind—as well as the desire of certain groups to force those who don't conform to just leave.

Quincy:

Well, that's just human nature. But that isn't the only thing that's human. It is also human to stand up for an elderly person or hold a door for a woman, and to genuinely wish others good health. It's just natural.

Oh, bravo. Personally, I'd much rather offer my seat to a pregnant woman or a senior on an MTA bus out of "old-fashioned" courtesy than try to be "hip" according to the standards of some tacky cable network or whatever other mindless media outlet is trending.

And yes, I will still end by wishing you good health, regardless of how much that might irritate you. 🤣 😁

_

Look, you can call your own post "obtuse" if you like, but if you aren't looking for an answer, why even write? 🤷 🤷 Regardless, you haven't actually provided any concrete points or arguments.

It's about current social pressure and the way people are being conditioned. It also ties into the desire—for some, at least—to push out anyone who doesn't conform.

Well, good for you. Personally, I’d much rather give up my seat for a pregnant woman or an elderly person on a subway based on "old school" manners than try to be "trendy" by the standards of some MTV or other similar media outlet.

OMG, if you don't want to do it, then just leave. I don't know which part of that is confusing. If a company does things you aren't interested in, why stay there? Start your own firm where none of that stuff exists, but stop trying to force everyone else to do things you don't want to do.

If everything is supposedly the same everywhere (which obviously isn't true—that's just an excuse for lazy people), then maybe the profession you're aiming for doesn't really exist, and you're just looking at some low-rent version of it. In any case, if you don't like it, just walk away.

Anyway, this is getting pretty off-topic, but the point William Gonzalez3 made—which I am also explaining—is that you have the freedom and the right to leave an environment that doesn't suit you.

Rebecca Rivera2 said:What you're describing actually misses the point regarding etiquette; you seem to have drifted a bit off course, haven't you? 🤷

I never had to deal with that kind of pressure when I was coming out of middle school.

Well, good for you—as an individual.

if it's the same in one city, it won't be the same in another country.

Of course, though you could always just exile yourself to Manhattan Island; as long as it doesn't feel like pressure, right? 😉

even a woman who isn't conventionally attractive could find a beach where she won't be mocked.
I know this from personal experience.
so...

That would most likely be some desolate, unkempt stretch of coastline. Back to Manhattan Island again?

there is an entire array of examples in journalism, art, and design that prove the opposite, making this a rather flimsy argument for proving your supposed "intense pressure."
Take a band like Foo Fighters, for instance; nobody forces them to churn out garbage, yet they are incredibly successful and widely listened to.
People value quality, not just mindless fluff and cheap thrills.

There are examples that are increasingly becoming exceptions, which only serves to reinforce the rule I was outlining. I could argue that point quite extensively in a different thread.
If, by sheer coincidence, the leader of the free world happens to be Chinese, you certainly can't conclude that the Chinese people, as a whole, are above average in height.

not really.
all you need is to wear clean, tidy clothes. nothing more.

That is incorrect for many professions and in many different contexts...

I’m glad to hear it.
Most companies don't operate that way—it's definitely an outlier.

I feel the same way. My old firm wasn't exactly a unicorn in that regard, but I have this nagging suspicion—based on what I've seen—that most places you'd end up working are actually quite similar to that one.

None of those rules are "natural."

All I was saying is that things like—offering a seat to a pregnant woman or an elderly person on the subway, helping a blind person cross the street, holding the door for someone loaded down with groceries, or simply wishing another human being good health... to me feels entirely instinctive. In other words, it seems perfectly logical and fundamentally human.

_

Of course, you could always relocate to Manhattan Island—as long as it isn't done under any kind of pressure, I suppose. 😉

It would probably just be some lonely, unkept stretch of beach—you know, the kind where nobody really goes.

I suppose we’re seeing more and more cases that look like exceptions—but, if you think about it, they actually just reinforce the very rule I was talking about.

It seems inaccurate when applied to many job titles—and honestly, in quite a few different situations as well...

I mean, look—your company wasn't exactly an outlier, but I have this nagging fear that most businesses in the sector you seem to be operating in... well, they might be working just like yours.

I was simply suggesting that we should be the kind of people who stand up for a pregnant woman or an elderly person on the subway—you know, those small gestures that actually matter. Maybe it’s about helping a blind person cross the street, holding the door open for someone struggling with heavy groceries, or even just wishing another human being good health. It's really just about those little moments of decency. To feels completely organic to me. In other words—it just seems entirely logical and fundamentally human.

Rebecca Rivera2 said:

I'm still waiting to see if anyone actually has something meaningful to contribute to this thread—it feels like we're just circling the drain at this point. kaže:
The pressure from everyone around you—it’s real. It’s constant, heavy, and frankly, exhausting.
It’s hardly a matter of coercion.
You can demand compliance, sure—but you can’t actually force someone to say "yes." You can apply all the pressure in the world, tighten the screws until they’re practically screaming, but at the end of the day, you’ve only succeeded in creating resistance. It’s like trying to force a rusted bolt to turn by just leaning on it harder; eventually, you aren't getting movement, you're just snapping the tool. Pressure might bend people, but it doesn't change their minds.
Back in the day, we used to deal with court-ordered mandates.
Now we’re just dealing with nothing more than pressure.
And that right there—that’s the subtle distinction we're talking about.

Let’s be clear—when we talk about legal compulsion, there was never any actual mandate regarding "etiquette" or social graces in the past. There aren't laws on the books that fine you for being rude at a dinner party. However, if we look at the informal pressure to conform to certain behaviors—behaviors that, frankly, have absolutely nothing to do with basic manners—it feels much more intense today than it ever was back in the day. It's less about being polite and more about an aggressive, unspoken demand to act a certain way just to fit a modern mold.

Like I was saying—individuals have far more mobility today than they used to. People actually have the agency to pack up and walk away from environments that don't suit them anymore—places that, frankly, would otherwise try to force them into some rigid, outdated mold.

Mobility doesn't actually mean much in the grand scheme of things—I mean, let’s be honest, moving from Chicago to Seattle isn't exactly a leap into a different dimension. It's more or less the same grind, just with a different skyline and perhaps a different brand of overpriced coffee.

If I were actually planning to go get a wax today, I’d probably head to a beach where people wouldn't spend the whole time judging a metrosexual like me.

You didn't actually answer the question—you just dodged it. Let’s be real: if you were a woman today and decided to skip the grooming routine, you wouldn't even be able to step foot on a public beach without becoming an immediate target for ridicule.

Look, there is an incredibly simple solution that people seem to overlook in their endless debates about media influence: you can just turn the damn TV off. It is a remarkably effective way to opt out of the mass media circus entirely—just reach for the remote, hit the power button, and suddenly, that whole manufactured reality ceases to exist in your living room.

It doesn't really matter. Even if you decide to "unplug" from the television—say you’re a journalist—the industry is still going to demand that you churn out nothing but clickbait and sensationalism. If you’re a musician, you'll be pressured to pump out whatever mindless, top-40 garbage is trending this week; if you’re a designer, you’ll find yourself forced to produce pure kitsch just to stay relevant. The pressure is immense because so many people have already been conditioned by the mainstream noise—they've had their brains essentially rewired. In certain professions, you don't even have an audience left to create anything meaningful for. So, while you might think "turning off the TV" and refusing to let them brainwash you is a victory, it doesn't actually change your reality. It’s hard to maintain your own perspective when you're constantly surrounded by people whose minds have already been scrubbed clean.

Like I said before—middle school can be a real minefield of cruelty.
One thing I neglected to mention—and it’s a point worth highlighting if we want to be thorough—is that once you finally clear the hurdles of middle school and high school, that relentless, suffocating pressure from your social circle just... evaporates. It’s as if the constant scrutiny from peers and teachers suddenly vanishes, leaving you to navigate the real world without someone constantly breathing down your neck about every little move you make.

It’s all a bit much, isn't it? Nowadays, if you actually want to land a contract or close a deal, it feels less about your actual talent and more about the optics—who you're grabbing drinks with, what kind of car you pull up in, and whether your suit screams "Wall Street executive" or "just rolled out of bed." Honestly, the level of pretension in the business world has reached an all-time high; it's like everyone is auditioning for a role in a high-stakes drama rather than just trying to get work done.

I’m speaking for myself here, certainly—but I’m also speaking for the countless others who have to answer to those truly vile, 밑less creatures. Honestly, most supervisors fall into this category; they are the kind of people you wouldn't wish a common cold upon, let alone anything more serious. It's a grim reality for many in the workforce.
It’s funny how people suddenly decide they’re your superior—it’s almost like they’re finally dropping the act and showing you their true colors once they realize you aren't actually a threat to their little kingdom.
Since I deal with quite a few managers and supervisors myself, I’ve developed a fairly accurate intuition regarding what people are actually made of—and I certainly don't harbor any delusions that they were somehow different in their past lives.
From an objective standpoint, people can be pathetic, weak, and fundamentally corrupt.

Back in the day, I used to hire people while working for a private firm. Even now, I stay in touch with some of them—we play sports together, I’ll even lend them a hand financially—and we grab coffee from time to time. Honestly, it's a pleasure running into them.

Quincy:

You're back at it again, lecturing about what's considered "cool" in schools. I know how it is. I went through all of that, and I remember exactly what it feels like when you don't have the latest Nikes in middle school. But life after graduation is a completely different animal. People's priorities shift significantly; they stop obsessing over whether something is "in" or "out," and nobody gives a damn if you aren't wearing designer kicks or if you didn't go on some trendy spring break trip. I truly don't understand this constant pressure you insist on talking about. The only real pressure I notice in my own orbit is existential. Worrying about being trendy is a luxury reserved for the obscenely wealthy. And there aren't many of those people in this country.

Where exactly are you living? Most of what is considered "trendy" is incredibly shallow. The pressure is intense—if I want to survive, I might have to backtrack and do things I find beneath me just to get by. I won't bore you with the details, but that applies to many areas of life. Perhaps not in your world; I'm not sure what you do for a living.

Quincy:

Rules themselves aren't natural, nor are they particularly welcome.

Perhaps, yet I find certain "rules" and elements of social etiquette to be entirely natural—so much so, in my view, that they wouldn't even need to be written down. 🤷

_

Mobility doesn't really mean much to me—I mean, honestly, even if you move to a different city, it’s mostly more of the same.

You didn't actually answer me—you just dodged the question. I mean, look, if you were a woman today and chose not to shave, you practically wouldn't be able to step foot on a single beach without being subjected to constant ridicule. It’s just how things are.

It doesn't really matter. Even if you decide to "unplug" from the mainstream media, the pressure remains—if you’re a journalist, people will still expect you to churn out clickbait and sensationalist trash; if you’re a singer, you’ll be pressured to perform whatever latest low-brow hit is trending; and if you’re a designer, it feels like you're forced to produce nothing but kitsch. It seems like there's no way to escape the demand for mediocrity.

It’s funny how things work—or don't work. To actually land a deal these days, it feels like people aren't even looking at your pitch anymore. Instead, they’re busy judging who you hang out with, what kind of car you pulled up in, or whether your suit looks expensive enough. I guess the level of pretension in the business world is just higher than it's ever been.

It’s possible—though I suppose one could argue that certain "rules" and... I think there might have been a misunderstanding—it looks like your message was just a single word, "dio." If you were trying to share a specific post or some text for me to rewrite, please go ahead and paste it! I’m ready to get to work once I have the source material. It all feels quite natural to me—so, honestly, as far as I'm concerned, those rules probably didn't even need to be written down in the first place. 🤷

Rebecca Rivera2 said:How exactly do you figure that? It feels like we’re being micromanaged by our surroundings at every single turn—it's practically inescapable.

Who has actually ever pressured anyone into getting breast implants?

The surrounding area. 🤣 The era of these types of "adjustments"—and everything like them—is only just beginning to arrive.
Let’s say, hypothetically, you were a woman—would you actually have the nerve to show up at the beach without having groomed every single inch of your body? It’s a different ballgame entirely. The reality is that you’d be facing a hell of a lot more scrutiny and social pressure—specifically the kind involving being mocked or judged—than your grandmother or grandfather ever had to deal with back in the day, simply because they might not have been strictly adhering to what we now consider modern standards of "proper" etiquette.

Let’s be honest—elementary school can be pretty brutal when it comes to how kids pick on individuals. It’s a harsh environment, and the social dynamics can be downright unforgiving.
But let’s be honest—that doesn't change the fundamental reality that society just doesn't hold the same kind of leverage over the individual anymore. Back when communities were smaller—think of those tight-knit midwestern towns where everyone knew your business before you even did—social pressure was an absolute powerhouse. Nowadays? That influence has evaporated. People are far more mobile than they used to be; if you find yourself stuck in a social circle or a local culture that doesn't sit right with you, you don't have to suffer through it—you can just pack up and move to a different city entirely. It's much easier to walk away from a community that no longer serves you.
Let’s be honest—the cold, hard truth is that society simply doesn't have the teeth to force anyone to do anything. At the end of the day, you can push and prod all you want, but you can't actually compel a person to act against their will.

Society today—fueled by the relentless media machine—possesses an almost lobotomizing power. It’s a surgical strike without the scalpel, yet the end result remains just as devastatingly hollow. From the manufactured drama of Big Brother to the sheer, chaotic unpredictability coming out of the Huljić workshop, one could honestly go on forever.

The reality is that society doesn't actually force anyone to adhere to the old-school rules of etiquette anymore—it just kind of lets them fade away.

That’s not even what I was getting at—what I mean is that today, there's this constant, forced pressure to act a certain way toward... I’m still waiting to see if anyone actually has anything useful to add here—it feels like we’re just spinning our wheels in the sand at this point. The rules—if we can even call them that—are quite clear on this one. It’s getting more intense than... What exactly do these people consider to be—according to their own logic—the "old rules" we’re supposedly breaking today?

Regarding that whole notion that everyone should just be capable of wishing someone a good morning or being generally pleasant—the kind of stuff you touched on in your previous post—well, reality has a funny way of proving you wrong. It’s easy to preach about basic civility, but when you actually step out into the world, it becomes pretty clear that most people simply don't operate that way.

Look, I’m speaking strictly for myself here. For instance, whenever I encounter someone who is being wildly overrated or—let's be honest—completely incompetent, I make a point of letting them know exactly where they stand. I don't sugarcoat it. At the same time, though—and this is an important distinction—I can still sincerely wish them good health. It's entirely possible to be brutally honest about someone's lack of talent while simultaneously hoping they stay out of the hospital.

Let’s be honest—most people don't actually want others to thrive, nor do they have the internal fortitude to wish someone genuine prosperity or health. It’s a fundamental flaw in the human condition. They lack the courage to face the truth when dealing with others—mostly because they’re either spineless cowards or simple conformists who prefer the comfort of a lie—and, quite frankly, they lack the emotional maturity to handle the truth about themselves.

You’re generalizing. If I decide you’re being either dim-witted or acting in bad faith—which is a judgment I won't hesitate to make—I’ll be sure to let you know exactly where you stand. I've certainly made a habit of calling people out like that before. 🤣Look, I’m not out here wishing you ill or hoping you end up in a wreck on some interstate—that’s just not my style. Honestly, I want nothing but good health for everyone; I mean that sincerely.

In reality, what I’ve pointed out happens far more often than that idealized version of social etiquette you’re describing—you know, that scenario where someone offers a friendly greeting while simultaneously harboring a desperate urge to deck the very person they’re waving at.

I don't exactly harbor those kinds of impulses—you know, that sudden, irrational urge to just go out and deck someone.

Back in the day, people were much more likely to offer a polite "good morning" or wish you well—not necessarily because they actually cared, but because social etiquette was essentially a survival mechanism. Society exerted this intense, constant pressure on the individual to conform; if you stepped out of line, the repercussions weren't just awkward glances at a cocktail party. The penalties for breaking the established laws and social order were significantly more draconian, and let’s be honest—human rights were a far cry from the protections we take for granted in America today. It was less about genuine kindness and more about avoiding the heavy hand of an era where the margin for error was razor-thin.
It’s funny how things have shifted—honestly, it feels like people don't even need to resort to the old-fashioned art of lying anymore. It isn't that everyone suddenly developed a moral compass overnight; it's more that we've become significantly more blunt with one another. We aren't exactly spinning webs of deception like we used to—instead, there's this pervasive, almost aggressive level of transparency that has taken over our daily interactions.

Where exactly do you live? Honestly, the sheer amount of posturing, superficiality, and pure pretension out there seems more widespread than ever before.
There’s this relentless social pressure these days to constantly be "in"—as if life were some high-stakes popularity contest where you’re either trending or completely irrelevant. If you haven't meticulously curated this specific, polished image of yourself, you're effectively written off as being "out." It’s become this exhausting, unspoken rule: perform the persona, or face the social exile. 🤣

Let me reiterate: society is built entirely upon a foundation of lies—and frankly, it’s those very lies that keep the whole machine running.
If we all actually knew what everyone else was truly thinking about us—really, truly knowing their unfiltered thoughts—things would look a lot different around here. Honestly? Society would probably just fall apart at the seams.
The true purpose of etiquette—if we’re being honest about it—is simply to maintain a convincing facade where everyone pretends to adore and respect one another.
Anyone who’s actually spent any time rubbing elbows with the common crowd knows—as anyone with half a brain can tell you—that nothing they say is even remotely close to the truth.

While certain rules of etiquette can feel a bit forced—almost like they’re being performed just for the sake of appearances—I truly believe there are others that are entirely natural and, frankly, more than welcome.

_

Rebecca Rivera2 said:I have to disagree; if anything, people are lying more than ever before. We see it everywhere—from massive economic spin and political propaganda down to those "mundane," everyday interactions. Even physical appearances are increasingly artificial—look at how common silicone implants have become.

Quincy:

one could reasonably assume that society used to exert much heavier pressure on the individual to conform to specific rules, norms, and regulations, whereas today that pressure has dissipated, allowing people to slowly liberate themselves and become more sincere with one another.

That is fundamentally incorrect. In this day and age, society exerts more pressure than ever for people to curate a manufactured "image"—a carefully constructed persona designed solely to ensure they are "accepted."

Quincy:

for instance, how many times have you lied when saying "good morning" to someone, while secretly wishing you could just punch them in the teeth?

Personally, I believe a person should be capable of wishing anyone at least a pleasant day and good health; there really isn't a need for deception in that regard.
Quincy:

or perhaps you've submissively listened to someone drone on about their tedious relationship drama or a trivial medical procedure—like a deviated septum surgery—even though you would have preferred to be doing literally anything else.

It is generally better to listen to a person, even if the timing is entirely inconvenient for you.

Quincy:

or maybe you stood up for an elderly passenger on a subway even when you didn't want to, simply because "that's what you do" and "it's the rule," all while being perfectly aware that the person could likely stand—or even run—without issue, as older folks often do when they spot an empty seat on the train.

I don't know what it's like to deal with osteoporosis or to be pregnant, but that "rule" feels quite instinctive to me. Whenever I'm riding the subway, I actually find satisfaction in giving up my seat to a pregnant woman or an elderly person.

I think we’ve got this all wrong. Nowadays, it feels like society puts more pressure on us than ever before—this constant, relentless drive to curate a fake persona, an "image," just to feel like we actually belong. It's almost as if we're forced to perform a version of ourselves that doesn't exist, simply to be accepted by everyone else.

gentlescout70 said:Where on earth has all sense of decorum vanished to? I find myself wondering about the younger generation and even their parents, who seem increasingly unable—or perhaps simply unwilling—to instill even the slightest shred of etiquette in them, mostly because they themselves have lost touch with those very standards, even though such rules naturally shift depending on whether you're in Chicago or New York. When I speak of this disappearance, I don't mean that manners have been wiped off the face of the earth entirely, but rather that they have become an exceedingly rare commodity. Why has it become the accepted norm to act with total disregard for social graces, only to have the person actually trying to behave properly met with judgmental glares? This topic touches upon more than just the decline of politeness; from my perspective, it encompasses the vanishing of all those subtle, beautiful elements of life that we simply don't value anymore—everything from the quality of music to how one chooses to spend their day, right down to the most minute details of social conduct. It seems that for the vast majority, superficial, low-quality nonsense holds far more weight than anything possessing actual substance. For instance, why bother hosting a major tennis tournament in Paris if the crowd lacks the basic decency to remain quiet during a game? Why is aggressive behavior tolerated so easily now? Why is it considered acceptable for historic downtown districts to be defaced by graffiti, or for counterfeit Ralph Lauren goods to flood the market and be purchased by people who wouldn't know the real thing if it hit them? I could go on forever. Honestly, it feels as though we are overdue for a comet to sweep through and thin out ninety percent of the population. Perhaps since the masses refuse to appreciate true quality, those of us who still do can take solace in our small numbers, but one has to wonder... why...

swiftcobra15 said:I watched a little over half the movie, and honestly, I think I've seen enough.
Quotes can be incredibly brutal, but you'd find even darker stuff in the Old Testament.
So, if we’re taking things literally, both the Bible and the Quran could easily serve
as blueprints for the worst kinds of crimes. It all comes down to how you interpret them, though.

Ultimately, my take is that the film isn't attacking Islam itself, but rather those twisted interpretations of the Quran.

Charles Clark12 said:So, is this finally a 1:1 ratio now?