It seems Red Bull would prefer Mark Webber to back off simply because his engine might be at risk if he keeps pushing. Of course, if he ends up pulling out of the race for that reason, everyone will point the finger at the team rather than blaming General Motors.
Pato, I honestly believe that both Webber and Vettel are praying to God that if they don't clinch the title, it at least goes to Fernando Alonso. It’s a lot like how I suspect Hamilton would have preferred Kim's championship over his own teammate's success. Besides, I’m not convinced Red Bull would ever go as far as asking Vettel to step aside for Webber. They are building their entire foundation around him, and losing him would be a massive risk. They'd likely hand over the title before they let Vettel walk. Now, if the situation were reversed... 🤣
So, Fernando Alonso is currently sitting 8 points ahead of Mark Webber, who in turn holds a 7-point lead over Sebastian Vettel. To put it bluntly, Webber’s fate is no longer in his own hands; if Fernando Alonso manages to secure second place, the championship is essentially decided regardless.
Now, let's run through a scenario: suppose in the next race, Vettel takes first, Webber comes in second, and Fernando Alonso finishes third. This isn't just a fantasy; it's actually quite plausible, and if it happens, Fernando Alonso clinches the title. However, if Vettel—who can't realistically snatch the crown unless he finishes at least five spots ahead of Fernando Alonso—fails to overtake Webber, then Webber would be the champion. That seems highly unlikely to happen, at least not as long as Red Bull clings to their mantra of refusing to issue team orders. Furthermore, in that specific scenario, Fernando Alonso becomes the champion precisely because of team orders; had he been 7 points behind (assuming Felipe Massa hadn't let him through back in Germany), he wouldn't be in this position. In such a messy hypothetical, Red Bull loses the title by playing fair against those who aren't. Otherwise, both sides are equally ruthless—though I find it hard to believe, given that Vettel would likely rather set his own hair on fire with a desk lamp than see Webber lose the title (and vice versa, should the roles be reversed).
Another equally realistic possibility is one where Webber finishes first, followed by Vettel, then Fernando Alonso. In this setup, Webber secures the championship. But would Vettel really be foolish enough to "slip up" and let Fernando Alonso pass just to screw over Webber? I wouldn't bet on it. Then again, it's not entirely impossible that Webber might let Fernando Alonso past just to spite Vettel, though given the point gap, the math makes that much less probable (we'd need Vettel to finish first, Webber fourth, and Fernando Alonso fifth).
Looking at this through a purely Machiavellian lens, Red Bull should have prioritized putting Webber ahead of Vettel today. Doing so would effectively neutralize the advantage Ferrari gained when Massa played nice in Germany, thereby maximizing their collective shot at the title. In that case, Webber would simply need to stay ahead of Fernando Alonso, leaving Vettel with the same slim chances he has now—only if Fernando Alonso finishes significantly far back or fails to score at all.
From a sporting integrity standpoint, everyone deserves an even playing field. Something needs to be done about these team order dynamics, because right now, the side playing more honestly is being handed a massive disadvantage.
Regarding the speculation that little Hulk should replace Webber at Red Bull: why on earth would they? Much like Fernando Alonso, Vettel clearly has zero patience for internal competition, and Christian Horner has already signaled that the team is being built around him. If Webber were to leave (perhaps moving to Ferrari instead of a disastrous stint like Massa's, or joining Robert Kubica at Renault), I'd expect Red Bull to promote either Felipe Buemi or Jaime Alguersuari to the main seat. They don't exactly need to go out and hunt for a rookie fast enough to get under Vettel's skin.
Unfortunately, I missed the Third Round, but I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw Hulkenberg sitting in P1. A massive win for the kid and a huge statement from Williams Racing! 🙏 🙏 🙏
I don't have a stream running right now. 😢 But from what I can see, it looks like rain; they’re running about 10 seconds slower than they were yesterday.
stormybadger8 said:I’m still pulling for Alonso, personally.🤣
To me, that whole situation just felt incredibly transparent and cheap.👎
I spent years backing Alonso back when he was the backbone of Renault. Even after his move to McLaren, I found myself rooting for him during that 2007 season—it’s almost like it became second nature to me. But watching him resort to such blatant complaining once it became clear that Hamilton was simply too fast and too good? That completely soured the experience for me.
I can still admit, objectively speaking, that he’s likely the most complete driver on the grid right now, but on a personal level, I just can't bring myself to respect him.
That comment was meant to be tongue-in-cheek; I thought I made it clear I didn't actually believe only TBF and Helmut Marko are sticking up for Vettel. My point was simply that you all are in a massive majority regarding that collision.
But whatever, we can agree to disagree. 👍
Anyway, let's see how the remaining four drivers you think still have a shot at the title would rank. (Sadly, Button is out of the running).
Here is my list: 1. Webber 2. Hamilton 2. Alonso 4. Vettel
It’s a bit ironic, considering before I ever joined this forum, Vettel was one of my personal favorites.
stormybadger8 said:Joshua Newman2, stop trolling me—even though I never do it myself. I might actually start reporting your posts if you keep this up.🙄
When I use the word referee, you know exactly what I mean. Don't twist my words.☕
If you honestly believe Webber is as innocent as a saint in that situation, say it loud and clear. Personally, I think he isn't, and the blame for that incident is shared. The only difference is that Vettel lost his cool with all that gesturing after the crash, while Webber managed to come out looking like the victim in the eyes of the public.☕
I read it somewhere else too, but I can't quite remember where.🤷
I deleted that part of the post once I realized I used the word "referee." And I'll admit, that’s quite a pivot from your previously unshakable position. 🙏
Now, a fair deal would be this: I'll stop the trolling if you stop talking nonsense. At Red Bull, they'd just as soon have Webber's car break down more often rather than less, just like Vettel's. If I had the power to swap out parts destined to fail, I'd swap them just like they did with that wing. Therefore, the fact that Webber's car breaks down less frequently is pure coincidence, not evidence of equal treatment.
As for whether they need to replace a driver who publicly trashes the team? Absolutely. But if it's true that they're keeping him in check compared to Vettel, then it's simply the truth.
stormybadger8 said:It feels nearly impossible, but there are whispers circulating that Horner has completely lost his cool. The rumor is he's already planning to show Webber the door regardless of whether he clinches the title or not—and he might just pull the trigger right after the Abu Dhabi finale.
That’s a pretty heavy piece of intel. Do you have a link to back that up?
How does a driver manage to consistently fall behind like this season after season? 🤷 I’ve exhausted all my sympathy for him based on his background, and now I’m genuinely hoping General Motors brings in someone else to fill the seat alongside Kubica: maybe Heifeld, Sutil, Grosjean, or even Huckelberg...
The Red Bull circus shows no signs of slowing down: Webber claims the entire squad is emotionally invested in Vettel, Vettel is pushing back, and Horner is desperately hoping the press misquoted Webber. 🤣 😂 😁
Here’s how I see it playing out: I expect the driver's union meeting (the GPDA, if we're using their terminology) to result in a formal demand to classify Grand Prix drivers as high-risk professionals eligible for specialized pension credits—putting them on the same level as soldiers, police officers, miners, or even ballet dancers. Given that Alonso and Webber serve as the former and current heads of the union, they should wield enough political capital to actually make this stick. 🤣
As for the race itself, I'm anticipating a fair amount of overtaking, some unpredictable rain, and the inevitable radio complaints from Rubinh and Mass. I just hope the championship title is decided during the season finale rather than being settled in Brazil. 🙏
Massa managed to dodge a penalty this time. I haven't quite wrapped my head around the official reasoning yet, but Liuzzi mentioned it looked like he completely lost control of the car. It was either a mechanical failure or someone essentially launched him off the track. 🤷
Sebastian Vettel takes the wins in Korea, Brazil, and Abu Dhabi.😳
Fernando Alonso would end up with two third-place finishes and one retirement.
Mark Webber grabs three second-place spots.
Lewis Hamilton would be messing around with his buttons in Brazil, missing his pit entry in Korea, and then desperately trying to overtake Timo Glock at the end of the race in Abu Dhabi.
Jenson Button would settle for third.
Felipe Massa would probably lose his seat before we even hit Brazil.😳
While that’s technically possible, realistically, we should only expect maybe one or two points. 🤣
It’s not that Vettel is an idiot; he wasn't even unlikable until we saw him lose his cool and start acting like a spoiled brat who just had their favorite toy snatched away.👍
Hamilton is on a serious losing streak lately... if it doesn't rain tomorrow (or if some other chaos doesn't unfold), McLaren might as well pack it in for the season.