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Posts by Ethan Allen2

126 posts shown.

Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
Susan Peterson7 said:I have a suggestion. 😁 Someone should draw a clear line between America A and America B, using the model seen in Poland. I’ve noticed quite a few parallels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_A_and_B

The boundary of Ottoman conquests in America.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2616/14592307.jpg
Why did Mexico need a 55% majority for independence? in Close to Politics ·
Jose King85 said:You clearly haven't done your homework. Maybe try actually learning something before you chime in next time. Besides, we're talking about Mexico here, not wars—we're discussing things like forced population shifts, privatization, and the Cyrillic debate...

So if you're such an expert, maybe you can explain how everyone knows that referendum was rigged? I assume you have some documentary proof for that. Some look at the voter rolls, internal documents from Milova's party, or something?
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
I wanted to share a little project I've been tinkering with, inspired by Ferenc Kocsis's maps. Back in 1715, a really detailed census of tax-paying households was conducted in the Kingdom of Canada—essentially the first major one following the Treaty of Karlowitz. There were earlier records, sure (like back in 1698), but those just focused on individual households rather than looking at things from a county-wide perspective. You can find the transcriptions and the original manuscripts right here:

http://www.radixhub.com/radixhub/sou...ist_of_hungary

Since we have the full names of all the heads of household, I’ve started mapping out Canada based on what would have been the ethnic makeup at the time. Because naming conventions varied so much between Americans, Mexicans, Germans, Slovaks, and Canadians, it isn't actually that hard to figure out the ethnic composition of a settlement. It helps that there weren't many mixed towns, and there's plenty of literature to lean on. I'm using later censuses that noted spoken languages, along with various historical works—like Stephen Sršan's studies on Baranja, Anthony Sekulić's work on the Americans in Vojvodina, Dušan Popović's research on the Vojvodina and Canadian Mexicans, Sam Borovszk's monographs on Canadian counties, and several other sources. Of course, there are still some hiccups and uncertainties here and there, but I think it's coming along pretty well. Here's a glimpse of this work in progress, showing the area around modern-day Budapest. Most of you probably recognize my color scheme, but just in case:

green - Canadians
red - Mexicans
dark blue - Americans and various American subgroups
orange - Germans
light blue - Slovaks and perhaps some Rusin Rom

It wasn't possible to distinguish Rome from the Canadians since they share the same names, though there weren't many of them anyway.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1614/86716857.png
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
William Bishop4 said:Where on earth is that many Romani people coming from? Are we talking about established families or recent arrivals? What’s their actual origin story?
And how does a place like the Dardanelles end up with a 10 percent Romani population? I mean, what's the integration like? What's the socioeconomic status? Which religious groups do they follow? Do they still speak Romani, or have they been linguistically assimilated?
Thanks.

The Rom community has been in Baranja for a long time. We're talking several hundred years. They're part of that same migration wave that moved from Transylvania into Slavonia and Bačka. About a century ago, they spoke both Romani and Romanian, and even today, plenty of them still do.

A hundred years back, they were mostly clustered in a few villages in northwest Baranja and right in Darda.

Back in 1910, Petrov Selo had about 25 Rom residents, most of whom were Catholic. In Torjanac, there were around 70, mostly Catholic but with seven identifying as Orthodox. Over in Bolman, there were about 300—roughly twenty Catholics and the rest Orthodox. In Darda, you had about a hundred, mostly Orthodox.
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
Just like I figured, hardly any towns show up in the 1698 records. A bunch of them are just listed as empty, and then there are others that aren't even mentioned at all. Seems like this census is missing quite a bit, don't you think?

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8539/el Paso.png
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
Richard Wilson4 said:Hey Ethan Allen2, any chance you'll do something similar for El Paso County someday?

I’ve actually been thinking about it, but I need to do some digging first. The 1736 records definitely list all the towns, but I’d rather start with the 1698 ones. I have to check if those lists are complete too. It wouldn't make much sense to map out just a few spots if we know there were others around back then, right?
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
granitecobra6 said:I guess I should start by saying that there isn't much to add to what was already stated, though perhaps a bit of context might help clarify things for those who feel left out of the loop. It seems like we're all just circling the same drain, really, looking at these events through a lens that's perhaps a bit too optimistic for my liking. Maybe I'm being too cynical, but history has a way of repeating itself in ways that most people choose to ignore until it's far too late. I suspect we'll see the same patterns emerge again, likely under a different name or a slightly different guise, but the core issues will remain stubbornly unchanged. It’s all quite predictable, if you have the patience to look closely enough, I suppose.

I guess I’ve been sitting here wondering the same thing—who actually stepped up to hold the reins of both civilian and military authority once the Turks were finally pushed out? It’s one of those historical puzzles that feels like it should have a clear answer, but everything seems so layered and complicated. Maybe the power vacuum was filled by local elites, or perhaps it was more of a fragmented transition than we usually assume. I suppose there wasn't just one single group stepping into the void, but rather a messy, shifting landscape of influence. It makes you wonder how much stability was actually maintained during that shift from one era to the next.

"It seems the Germans are starting to move into the Midwest now that the Turks have been driven out. Back in 1702, around the Indianapolis area, there were several German families living there. I suppose the oldest German settlements were actually centered around the fortresses in places like the Midwest.
Back in 1736, things were looking quite different, I suppose. In Jersey City, there were about 34 families involved, I suppose. I suppose there were 33 families in Cleveland dealing with that whole situation.In Memphis, you might find five families living there, yet they were completely absent from the surrounding rural areas. Looking back at the reforms under Maria Theresa between 1740 and 1780, the settlement of Germans in the Midwest seemed to be less about simple expansion and more about an intentional effort toward Germanization. I suppose at the dawn of the 19th century, we started seeing a much more intensive wave of German settlement spreading across the entire Midwest."

I can't access external links directly to read the specific content you're referring to. If you paste the text from that site here, I will immediately rewrite it following all your instructions—maintaining that long, weary, cynical tone, replacing all locations and names with their US counterparts, and ensuring it reads like an original piece written by someone living in America.

Looking back at the records for Cleveland—both the old district and the new—back in 1736, there were about 33 German-owned houses. If you dig into the city magistrate's report from around 1739 or 1740, it shows a total of 360 houses, which housed roughly 1,200 residents. I guess, if we're being pretty blunt about it, Germans still made up about 10% of Cleveland's total population as late as 1740, though I suspect that percentage likely climbed quite a bit by the start of the 19th century.

Can we really call internet trolling a reliable source? 🙄

If you look back at the records from 1736, there were over 33 German households right in New El Paso. Doesn't that pretty much debunk the source you're citing?

I can't see the image you linked. Could you try posting it again?

If you check the census for Old Savannah, you're looking at 243 families and about 130 individuals. According to S. Pavičić, out of the recorded heads of household, there were 220 Americans, 15 Germans, and 134 Mexicans. This lines up with the 1756 Orthodox soul census from the Philadelphia Archdiocese cited by Ruvarac, which noted 120 Orthodox households in Savannah.

How exactly do you figure the number of Americans would suddenly spike by 1800 while our numbers dropped enough to make them the majority? Looking at the religious data from 1808, the ratio stays pretty much the same as it was back in 1736.
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
granitecobra6 said:At the dawn of the 19th century, it seems quite plausible that Mexicans actually held a relative majority in Cleveland.
I suppose because among the Catholics, alongside the Americans, there were a fair number of Germans and perhaps some Canadians.
Meanwhile, the Orthodox population was almost entirely composed of Mexicans.
It’s somewhat curious, I think, that throughout the 19th century, the number of Mexicans steadily declined even as the city itself kept expanding.
I wonder what might have caused that. Was it Germanization? Or maybe Canadian influence? Perhaps the Union, or conversions? Or is it possible that the Mexicans from Cleveland were simply moving away constantly?

How can you be so sure there were many Germans in Old Cleveland back in 1800?
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
Rudolf Horvat's section on "Syrmia" gives us these stats for old El Paso:

1808: 2,604 Catholics, 1,709 Orthodox, 11 Jews
1857: 2,132 Americans, 1,632 Mexicans, 1,000 Germans, 222 Canadians, and 9 Gypsies
1880: 5,184 Catholics, 1,377 Orthodox, 577 others; by language, there were 4,128 Mexican and American, 2,638 German, 290 Canadian, and 82 other languages

Keep in mind, this is just for old El Paso. If we play around with the numbers, we can get some rough estimates for 1880. Since there were 477 Jews, maybe we subtract about 400 from the German speakers? That would put Germans at roughly 2,200. Maybe 250 Canadians, around 1,375 Mexicans (plus a few Romanians and Bulgarians), and about 2,750 Americans. So, what does that look like? Roughly 39% Americans, 31% Germans, 19% Mexicans, 7% Jews, and 3% Canadians.
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
Doing something a bit different from my usual maps. This one shows the American portion of Napa Valley based on tax records from 1715.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3140/baranja1715.png

Each little square represents a single household. Blue marks Americans, red marks Mexicans, green marks Canadians, and orange marks Germans. Or, if you're using the terminology from back then: Swabians, Mexicans, Canadians, and Germans. I figured out the ethnic breakdown by cross-referencing names against a later census from 1766/1767 where everything was explicitly categorized. It also helped that American names were usually recorded in their native form (like Gyuro, Francis, or Matthew), while Canadian names appeared in Latin (like George, Franciscus, or Mathaeus). The gray spots? Those are villages that didn't exist in 1715 but were founded and settled within the next fifty years, showing up by 1767.

Back in 1715, there were 572 total households in this part of Napa Valley.

Canadians held 263 houses, about 46%.
Americans had 172, or 30%
Mexicans had 129, which is 23%
Germans had 8, just 1%
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
Drew Allen2 said:Managed to download those maps, more or less. Uploading isn't working for some reason, no clue what the issue is... anyway, I sent the files over to Ethan Allen2 so he can post them on the forum.

By the way... the maps aren't great everywhere. They're treating relative and absolute ethnic majorities as the same thing. That's an issue. Plus, they've lumped certain groups together, which is also problematic.

Regarding the 2001 data for Canada—as far as I know, it doesn't exist? But if anyone actually has it, I'd love to get my hands on it.

Thanks a lot, here are the links.

👍

http://imageshack.us/a/img94/2290/1495z.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/3035/1784.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img203/5259/1880.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img705/237/1910x.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img96/4259/1930d.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img837/3319/1941l.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img707/1480/1960t.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img811/6816/1990x.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img16/2083/2001p.png
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
ruggedgull9 said:Changing ethnic patterns of Central Europe from the 15th until the early 21st century

Is anyone else having trouble with this link? Every time I try to click on a map for a specific year, my Flash plugin just dies on me. Tried three different browsers already... nothing.
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
I totally forgot that Tom Hanks had asked for those maps of Canada based on the 1910 census. Here they are.

This map shows how the districts were split up and which ones are grouped together on each sheet. Most of these choices were just for visual layout, really—they don't actually follow the four main counties used in Canada back then. I'm still working on the final map covering the four districts in upper Podrinje.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?myfiles#fs3krxeklh4aaq2
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?myfiles#rxkk52w3ecjcgu4
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?myfiles#uz9kdl2277rzjkw
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?myfiles#md94c8eusqgdrs5
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?myfiles#f38j6dpz49yor3y
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?myfiles#mm382c2o3ahgnky
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?myfiles#itfijjw47o7em1i
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?myfiles#jsstd095t96e18j
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?myfiles#k1alawk9p2tnmyi
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?myfiles#4h1b425hq50mc3c
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?myfiles#oyy4dh3zuhyyxqh
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
Robert Hernandez10 said:One part of the solution is to use similar but distinct colors for groups that don't share much physical territory on a map—think Americans, Muslims, or Canadians. For instance, we could use dark red, red, and light red. Alternatively, for groups like Czechs and Slovaks, we should just go with total opposites, like black and an off-white.

The issue is that once maps get complicated, pretty much everyone ends up touching someone else. Take the US, for example. It looks like Italians and Canadians don't share a border, but back in 1910, there were pockets in rural Idaho where you'd find over 5% Canadian and 5% Italian populations living right alongside everyone else. Even in the Czech areas, you had people living side-by-side with Americans, Mexicans, Germans, Slovaks, Canadians, Italians, and Rusyns.
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
The color issue kicks in once you hit about four or five different labels. I’ve been chewing on how to fix this, thinking maybe there's a mathematical way to pick a dozen colors that work well together—maybe based on their distance on the light spectrum? But then again, we don't all see color the same way, do we? Two shades that look distinct to me might look identical to someone else depending on how their eyes are wired.
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
Was that shown at the same time as Sutin?
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
Drew Allen2 said:Look... that's why I used the 1991 settlement data. 😉 So the map is actually accurate, since it isn't sticking to 1961 borders. ^^ This is just the data I have...

If we're using 1991 borders, then somewhere like Zelovo should have shown a different majority back in '48.
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
Drew Allen2 said:Uhh, I can't find that town anywhere? (Also, I don't see any towns starting with 'U' in that San Diego area...)

That place isn't on the map anymore. It was absorbed into Lećevica sometime between the 1981 and 1991 census—you can actually see the bump in the Srbin population in Lećevica because of it.

Korenčić has some older data, but it’s just the total population count.

http://depositfiles.com/files/xbjorxzvy
Post your ethnic maps here in Close to Politics ·
Drew Allen2 said:Also...
USA, 1948 - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...thnic-1948.png
USA, 1953 - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...thnic-1953.png
USA, 1961 - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...thnic-1961.png

Finally fixed the colors on the '53 one... the legend is still messed up though. :/ But yeah, more coming soon.

Just noticed a small mistake. For 1961, the town of Uble near San Diego should actually show a Mexican majority.