774 posts shown.
wanderingbadger44, well, it’s the same old story, I suppose—right in the thick of it, as usual.👍🙏
I think you might be a bit old-school, if you don't mind me saying, and maybe those modern teaching methods have just left you in the dust. It feels like you aren't quite catching on to how cool and progressive this new generation actually is.🙂
Looking back on it now, I find myself in total agreement, even if I’m feeling a bit despondent about the whole thing.😁
SummerNight said:
I can't see anything here, and I suppose there isn't any way to zoom in.
brightheron64 said:That is precisely the point, and honestly, that is exactly why...
I remember seeing someone else on here comparing literature to the hard sciences—math, physics, chemistry... those essential disciplines where you really need at least a foundational grasp if you ever hope to make anything of yourself in this world...
What is the true purpose of assigned reading, anyway? Is it meant to be an exercise in admiring the written word, a way to sharpen our ability to express ourselves, or perhaps a spark to ignite critical thinking and creativity...? I just can't wrap my head around why we’re forced to sit through deep analyses of a selected work or answer questions like, "what part of this story resonated with you most," when the story itself feels completely hollow and uninspiring...
Just to clear anything up—my kids only tackle those school reading lists because they have to, but outside of their required assignments, they actually end up devouring at least three times as many books as what's on that mandatory syllabus... I make a point of encouraging them to read constantly, though I never try to force specific titles or themes on them. Sometimes... Courier of Loda Today... White Deer...Oh, please... honestly...
Who exactly is the one calling the shots on the reading list? It’s always some high-level committee of experts, academics, and self-proclaimed "intellectual gurus"... people who decide what we’re required to read based solely on their own subjective views and personal standards... I mean, really, if I choose not to pick up whatever specific title Slobodan Prosperov Novak has hand-selected for us, am I suddenly just some uneducated kid with no sense of literature...?
There’s just something about this whole situation that keeps pulling me back to a certain movie... it feels almost too familiar, like I've seen this exact scene play out on a silver screen before... The Society of the Dead Poet... It’s right there at the end of the ballad, where Robin Williams suddenly shifts gears and starts playing this incredibly stiff, uptight character who tries to explain to his students how one actually "measures" poetry... It feels just like those old school assignments we used to get in American English class, you know? Like being handed a prompt for a creative essay and told to write something about a "Stormy Autumn Day"...
Has it ever crossed anyone's mind to actually run a survey among high schoolers—maybe a questionnaire asking which books truly captured their imaginations back in elementary school—and then use that data to build a curated reading list? Imagine if we crafted a selection of titles that would genuinely hook the majority, while subtly weaving in those essential literary classics that everyone considers part of the canon... If we did that, you probably wouldn't see librarians constantly dealing with awkward moments like, "Oh, do you have *Judith* in stock for English class?" Instead, we'd avoid all that collective frustration when we look at how disinterested or poorly expressed our youth can seem lately...
Look, for heaven's sake, don't go forcing them to pick up a book; instead, you have to find a way to actually ignite that spark within them...
It feels like a fundamentally flawed premise to me.☕
regardless of whether I found a book fascinating, easy, way too difficult, or just incredibly dull:
in my day-to-day existence, I don't really need anything from math, physics, or chemistry beyond basic addition, multiplication tables, and the occasional percentage. When I think about it, ever since I finished high school, I haven't actually needed any other part of those exact sciences for anything at all.🤔
Literature, on the other hand, is something I find useful both in my career and just in terms of general communication skills within our culture.
I wouldn't go so far as to say I "haven't accomplished anything in life" because of it.😉
Quincy:
| Who is actually responsible for picking the reading list? Some committee of experts, academics, or some sort of elite "think tank" group... people who, by their own personal standards and metrics, decide what everyone else is required to read? |
And who exactly should be making those choices instead?
Parents?🍿
It feels like just this same uneducated crowd of losers constantly railing against the classics, mostly because those books have been a thorn in their side since they were stuck in some elementary school classroom.☕
ok.
I can't help but wonder where this kind of mindless bickering is actually headed—especially considering what nimblelynx7 is saying here. I suppose I should probably mention Francesca, though I’m not entirely sure if she’ll mind me bringing her up like this, or if it’s even particularly relevant to the point I was trying to make, which I might have lost track of somewhere along the way. It feels like one of those things that stays on the periphery of the conversation, just hovering there, sort of quietly, while everyone else is focused on the main event. Maybe she’ll weigh in later, or maybe she won't, and I guess that’s fine too, really. It doesn't seem worth making a whole thing out of it, unless, of course, there's some deeper connection I'm just not seeing yet.:
I mean, I guess some people find math to be just mind-numbingly tedious—like, truly soul-crushing levels of boredom—and if I’m being totally honest, there’s a fair amount of nonsense packed into the standard American school curriculum that you’re probably never, ever going to actually use in your day-to-day life.
Physics? Honestly, where do you even begin with that kind of boredom... I don't know, maybe it’s just me, but there’s something about it that feels like an endless stretch of nothingness.
Chemistry? I mean, what’s really the point of it all, I guess? I find myself wondering about that quite often, staring at textbooks and thinking about where all this actually leads. It feels like such a massive, sprawling subject, and sometimes it just seems a bit aimless, if you know what I mean. Maybe there's a purpose to the endless formulas and the constant memorization, but honestly, I'm still trying to wrap my head around why we bother with it so intensely. Just a thought, I suppose.
Physical stuff... I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it all feels a bit much sometimes. Just seems a little overdone, I guess.
Biology—it’s one of those subjects that feels like it should be straightforward, you know? I mean, on the surface, it’s just the study of life, which sounds almost too simple to be true, but once you actually start digging into the cellular mechanics or the way ecosystems in places like the Pacific Northwest interact, things get incredibly complicated, very quickly. I guess there’s something sort of meditative about the sheer scale of it all, though I find myself getting lost in the weeds quite often. One minute you're looking at basic Mendelian genetics, and the next, you're spiraling down a rabbit hole regarding molecular biology or the nuances of evolutionary theory, and suddenly an hour has passed without me realizing it. It’s a bit overwhelming at times, I suppose, especially when you consider how much we still don't actually understand about the fundamental building blocks of existence. Maybe that's why people find it so fascinating, or maybe it's just the endless complexity that keeps us coming back to it. 🥱
I was thinking about geography earlier—specifically how much it dictates everything—and I started wondering about the GDP of Butan. It’s one of those things that seems straightforward until you really start digging into the data, I guess. Maybe it's just me, but looking at how different economies scale compared to their physical landscape always feels like such a massive, complex puzzle. 🙂
History—honestly, I wonder who actually cares about exactly when something went down... I mean, does the specific date really change the essence of what happened? Maybe not, I guess. It feels like we spend so much energy obsessing over timelines and precise years, almost as if getting the calendar right somehow makes the past more real or meaningful, though I’m not entirely sure that’s true. Sometimes it feels like we're just shuffling numbers around without actually touching the soul of the story itself, which is a bit strange when you think about it.
And so... I suppose we just keep going. One step after another, I guess.
If I actually had a say in what the kids were studying, I guess they wouldn't pick anything besides computer science. Though, even then, I suspect they’d only really be interested if the curriculum focused on building social media platforms or developing video games. Anything else—well, honestly, it just seems pretty boring to me.
So, I guess those are the latest trends floating around—the idea that students should just pick and choose what they feel like doing, and if they aren't feeling a particular task, they simply shouldn't have to do it, entirely free from any kind of consequences or penalties.
It’s like some weird blend of Waldorf, Montessori, and Summerhill... basically just anarchy wrapped up in an educational package.🙂
rowdypanther12 said:I actually had some of my best discussions with teachers when I ended up hating the book we were assigned reading
I mean, obviously.
It always seems to work out that way, I guess.🙂
silenttinker89 said:Yeah, right... Apparently, reading in your own language is for losers—only "cool" people speak English only.🧐
I suppose that’s just how it goes, I guess.
I suppose we could talk about what it actually means when we're raising kids in America.🙂
silenttinker89 said:Why?
I suppose it's just because there seems to be this sudden trend lately where everyone feels the need to tear apart the classics.😉
Whether the book was actually interesting or just a total snooze-fest doesn't really matter—if the assignment was to read it, then you were supposed to read it.
I mean, if the teacher asked her any questions about the plot or whatever, she should have had some answers ready.
If she didn't, well, she didn't. She got a C-minus, so what? It isn't the end of the world.
You just move on with your life.
Getting an A in English class has absolutely nothing to do with failing a reading assignment.
Nancy Kelly31 said:That is certainly an option. A student isn't officially enrolled, but the parents sign a waiver agreeing that the child will participate as a "guest student," which allows them to listen to the lessons whenever they wish, either periodically or consistently... In that scenario, they aren't required to have textbooks, they won't take any tests, and they won't be questioned or graded—they simply sit in and listen. A guest student...
I should also mention that this is actually quite common in American schools...
I’ve worked in plenty of different schools over the years, and I honestly can’t say I’ve ever heard of this being a "common practice."😕
I mean, sure, you might have some kids sitting in on a class when they aren't officially enrolled in that specific subject, but the idea that someone would show up to every single period without being on the roster—not having any supplies, not taking tests, and just sitting there without participating—well, I haven't really encountered that at all, I guess.🤷
as per usual, this is going to be a three-part saga🥱🥱
the premise here is just... well, it's silly. honestly, it’s so nonsensical that I don't even feel like getting into it anymore.
your argument, if you can even call it that, follows that same tired old script where "the whole system is broken, good teachers are a dying breed, and parents and kids are just collateral damage in the middle of it all," so I suppose I don't really have much left to add beyond what I've already said a thousand times before.
I guess I'm just over it.👋
wanderingbadger44 said:To be honest, I really don't get why everyone is getting so worked up about this.
The whole point of the story is that American teachers are actually incredible. In our schools, more than 80% of elementary students are finishing their grades with top marks, and that’s really a testament to the hard work of the educators. 🥳
and that point you made, too.🤣🤣
thank god and all the saints above that I managed to escape elementary school on time🙏
Jacob Lopez2 said:So what exactly is the issue here? You are doing things the right way, but that certainly doesn't mean the rest of the American education system is functioning correctly. Why on earth do you feel personally attacked when people critique the system? True progress requires self-reflection if we ever want to see actual improvement. While things might be better than they used to be, don't for one second assume we have reached some kind of peak performance.
We need constructive dialogue instead of this immediate, knee-jerk defensiveness.
Maybe it's just because I've heard so much complaining about how broken the system is—even though, I suppose, I'm part of that very same system myself.
Actually, I think the system is pretty decent when you consider what modern parents and their kids really deserve.
If there's one thing that needs fixing, it's probably just the funding for school supplies and facilities; otherwise, everything seems to run quite smoothly.
Of course, you'll always run into some bad teachers here and there, but I feel like it's a real shame that people tend to focus solely on them and lump them in with the entire educational structure.
And honestly, the recent curriculum changes feel like they were mostly just for show for the parents, though I suspect the people who should actually be aware of that aren't really paying attention.
Like I said before, this whole argument is just nonsense.
And honestly, the text says exactly what you’re claiming it doesn’t.
I work with my students on an individual basis—believe it or not—so it really gets under my skin when people start rambling about "obedient herds" and all that other typical nonsense.
I wasn't talking about problematic kids at all, but rather those quiet, unmotivated, or untalented types who struggle so much that they barely scrape by with a D, despite both our best efforts. And if a parent ever actually had the nerve to come to me claiming that their kid's failing grade was somehow my personal failure, I think I'd handle them pretty bluntly.
Luckily, most don't show up, probably because they're realistic about their child's abilities, though that doesn't stop them from trying to throw shade through the homeroom teacher to imply I should be doing things differently.🙄
Besides, adult education and professional development have absolutely nothing to do with teaching children; the level of intellectual and emotional maturity is different, the motivation is entirely different, and you aren't dealing with a grown adult with dyslexia or ADHD who needs a customized curriculum, nor are you dealing with someone who already has a specific career background. Plus, you aren't managing classes of thirty kids, and you don't have parents hovering over everything.🤣
So, I wouldn't compare the two under any circumstances.
(I've worked with adults myself, but there's really no connection to schooling, I suppose.)
urbantinker8: I was thinking about that point made by Quincy, and I suppose there’s some merit to it, though it feels like we might be oversimplifying things just a little bit, if that makes sense. It’s funny how these discussions tend to drift toward the obvious, but then you realize the nuances are actually where all the messy parts live. I guess I’m just wondering if we aren't overlooking the broader context of how these systems interact with everyday life here in the States. Maybe it isn't as black and white as it seems at first glance, and perhaps we should probably sit with the uncertainty for a moment before jumping to any final conclusions. It’s a lot to process, I suppose.
Jacob Lopez2 said:I don't have amnesia. In both my elementary and middle school years, these issues were rare exceptions, and the only student I ever saw struggling significantly with learning was someone who required a specialized individual education plan.
Allow me to state that my own experience has been quite different.
And who exactly was talking about a teacher's failure? If a parent hasn't even mastered basic geography themselves, why on earth should they be expected to teach their child anything at all? That is precisely the point.
So, there’s this rumor going around that the professor is actually the one to blame for the failing grades. I guess it’s just one of those things people are whispering about, though I'm not entirely sure how much truth is behind it. Maybe he is, or maybe it's just the usual talk.
Well, I guess even Salih is saying the same thing now, and since you actually signed off on it, you might as well own it.🤷
Even if your experience was a bit different from mine, I suppose you have to wonder whether the professors were actually the ones at fault for those sporadic failing grades. Maybe they weren't intentionally being difficult, but I guess there's always that possibility that the instruction just wasn't hitting the mark for everyone.
I’m not exactly saying their parents are the ones to blame here, though I suppose there's always that element to consider, but I do feel like any average kid should probably realize that sometimes you just have to put in the work and grind it out to get the grade you're aiming for. It shouldn't really matter if the professor is one of those captivating lecturers or just someone incredibly dry, or if the subject itself feels like a breeze or an absolute uphill battle; you just kind of have to sit there, stay focused, and earn that GPA.
I guess you could say the curriculum is pretty much tailored to hit that middle ground, though I suppose whether that’s actually a good thing or not is a bit of a toss-up. It seems designed to cater to the average student, maybe even a little too closely, if you ask me.
rowdypanther12 said:Man, I honestly can’t for the life of me remember a single classmate who ever failed a grade twice—not even one where the geography teacher had to ask them basic questions about the cardinal directions just to let them pass.
It took him way too long to figure out which way was north or east.
I was just a kid back then, but if there had been some kind of underlying issue, I think I would have noticed.
He just wasn't really feeling school, though he was never loud or disrespectful about it.
so, yeah, clearly not everyone suffers from memory loss.😁
either that teacher was just such a dull person that she couldn't manage to teach a poor student the compass points, despite the fact that he was trying really, really hard to memorize them, or maybe she was just... uninspiring. it's possible.🤦
there are plenty of quiet students out there who don't have any documented disabilities and aren't causing any trouble at all, but they're just disinterested or perhaps just totally lacking a knack for certain subjects.
with enough extra effort—from both the kids and the teachers—they usually scrape by with a passing grade, but saying that's the teacher's failure is, in my opinion, absolutely and definitely not true.
let's not talk nonsense.☕
Jacob Lopez2 said:In this story, the boy is quiet, obedient, and well-behaved, so his failing grades have nothing to do with his conduct.
And if certain students are constantly disruptive, then yes, I believe that does involve the teacher, provided the child doesn't have some other underlying diagnosis—in which case specialists and parents need to step in (school psychologists and counselors aren't just there to check boxes, after all). I remember quite clearly that even the "troublemakers" could manage a passing grade if they had a teacher who knew how to present the material in an engaging and understandable way. Failing grades are extreme outliers, especially in elementary school.
Calling it a "story" is kind of silly.
Are failing grades really just
outliers?😕
Do you honestly think the support staff doesn't get involved in these situations?
And do you really believe parents always cooperate with the school?
Do you seriously think just being "engaging" is enough to ensure a child gets at least a C?
Is it your belief that
every single teacher and
every bit of curriculum
always has to be
every student's favorite thing to stay afloat?
Jacob Lopez2 said:There isn't a single mention of anyone getting an A; all you hear about are the Fs and Ds, which represent total ignorance—an ignorance largely driven by incompetent instructors, because you could pass with a D just by sitting in class and listening. Those of us who actually went through the American school system know exactly how this works, so...
I mean, obviously everyone who finished school has some level of experience; it would be pretty weird if they didn't.
but it seems like a lot of people have developed a bit of selective amnesia along with that experience.
thank goodness that
every single student is perpetually attentive during class, shows up religiously, always finishes their homework, and possesses endless talent for every subject, so any
given "failure" like an F or a D is exclusively and solely the fault of the teachers:clap:
good grief, what a silly little joke this is, this supposed "anecdote" or whatever you want to call it.😵🤦
Jacob Lopez2 said:I agree with Sarah
😉
...since everyone is supposedly able (and actually required) to pull a five out of five on every subject, provided the professors are "good" enough, right?
Just a bunch of nonsense, I guess.🤦