Posts by urbantinker8

driftinggull83 said:😠 I already know his two little friends are planning on taking religion class. At what stage of the school enrollment process do we actually decide on that subject? And how am I supposed to find out how many kids are signing up or opting out? My husband is dead set on our child skipping it, and I’m the parent you guys were just talking about (so please, don't start with me)
good grief 🕺

You make the decision regarding religious education right when you're enrolling them in school.
And it isn't really something you choose based on trying to avoid drama, or whether their little buddies are signing up or not; I mean, it's usually more about personal conviction, for goodness sake.

Peter Doyle2 said:Look, urbantinker8, you have a kid. One day—today or tomorrow—they could face this exact same situation. They could end up with a teacher just like this one, screaming those same things in class, and you’ll be sick to your stomach because everyone else will just shrug and say, "not my problem." Then they’ll start sending your child messages about how they’re going to get them in serious trouble. Are you really just going to sit there and let that happen?
Since you work in a school, I'd assume you'd realize more than anyone just how broken this whole system is. How can you still be so unbothered by it?

Matthew Young35, I didn't say you should go out and start shouting in Times Square. I was just asking—is there really no USA institution, for instance, where this could be reported? Is there truly no other way besides "shouting"?

I mean, at some point, something has to give. Something has to break or change. It’s certainly not going to happen just by watching from the sidelines. Who knows? Maybe your letter to a USA institution might actually be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

The state is a mess, though I suppose our education system is actually a bit of a dream compared to some other systems out there, at least from an insider's perspective. 😉
If some jerk starts saying stuff like that in my kid's classroom, I guess I’d start a full-blown revolt and fight until everything was finally sorted out. I wouldn't just be the last one standing there quietly letting someone try to shut me up.
I’d try to resolve it using every legal avenue available, and honestly, I'd be perfectly willing to move my kid to a different school if I couldn't get things cleaned up properly.
But as for me supporting these half-hearted protests from people who aren't even sure if they'd actually speak up or just stay quiet... no way, Jose.
Looking at the specifics: they chose the religion elective themselves. They realized very quickly what kind of teacher they were dealing with. They had the option to pull their kid from the course entirely, and they could have supported the outcry that started.
Instead, now they're signing petitions to get that same jerk back in the classroom. 🤦

I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to support here.

I guess you reap what you sow. 🤷

Peter Doyle2 said:So, you live in a country where a kid gets arrested just because he was heckling some "Republican crooks" down at the pier or wherever.
And then you’ve got this guy in a public school openly spewing hate speech—and I mean real hate speech—and everyone’s just kind of like, "Well, we knew the wolves would eventually eat the sheep," right? Seriously?
Is there really no way to actually stop this kind of thing? There aren't any USA institutions to turn to, nothing, since it’s pretty obvious that American law enforcement and agencies either can't or simply won't do anything about it.
Does nobody actually feel the urge to step up? Everyone seems so quick to shrug their shoulders with that "Oh, it’s not my kid / not my school / not my problem" attitude, even though you all know this could happen anywhere, anytime.

(Just to be clear, I don't live in the States and my kid will never attend an American school, so please don't go accusing me of not doing enough. I did. I moved away from there, which is probably why things like this seem even more unbelievable to me from this distance).

We all know your story, and I completely support your decision; I get that moving was the best thing for you, especially since things like this used to drive you absolutely crazy. I'm glad you managed to make your dream a reality.👍

However, if you'll permit me, I really couldn't care less about the daily political nonsense and all those various outbursts.
I know karma might come knocking for me tomorrow, but honestly, I'm not even thinking about it.
In my life, it's just not an option to let myself get worked up over idiots, whether they're nearby or halfway across the country.
I'm living a perfectly fine life, and the thought of spending my time visiting courthouses or organizing protests doesn't even cross my mind.
I prefer to spend my energy and my time on much more interesting things in life.

rowdypanther12 said:It seems like you aren't bothered by much; you probably live under the impression that nothing actually impacts you or your life.
Personally, it gets to me—what I find hardest is seeing how this kind of mindset is passed down to children.
To me, the people who stay silent are always more disgusting than the actual abusers.

I wouldn't say I'm living in an illusion, because, through a messy web of circumstances, I happen to find myself right at the center of most parent-child dynamics, so I see exactly how things play out—it's not like I'm blind, deaf, or slow to catch on.
It’s just that, a long time ago, I stopped believing that I could single-handedly sway the masses or shift the collective consciousness of the country. I'm not Don Quixote, and I don't particularly care to be.
As for my own life, large-scale social trends affect me only as much as they absolutely have to, or perhaps just as much as I decide to let them.
And honestly, I'm doing alright with that.
I have nothing but contempt for the abusers, but I feel a certain pity for those who just stay quiet and endure it.
I don't feel any particular urge to change either group, I suppose; everyone eventually chooses their own path.

I don't really give them a second thought, to be honest.

I suppose I'm not entirely sure what you're hoping to get out of people who are basically:
a) deeply devout types who follow every word from the pulpit and the clergy without question,
b) folks who aren't even religious, but just prefer to go with the flow and follow whatever the crowd is doing,

they aren't exactly going to start a revolution against their spiritual leaders, now are they? goodness knows.
in a situation like this, they’ll likely just stay quiet, almost as if they were being held under a spell.

I don't see much point in complaining about people like that; if anything, I kind of miss the simplicity of it.
And I generally try not to pay any mind to their opinions unless they actually end up affecting me personally. I mean, you can't really change the way someone is wired, no matter how hard you try, I guess.

rowdypanther12 said:Yeah, how does the saying go? First they came for the walls... I didn't get involved since I'm not Jewish...

what's your actual point here?

I suppose everyone really just needs to make their own choice for themselves, without constantly looking over their shoulder at what the neighbors might think.
If people spent less energy worrying about what Mom, the mother-in-law, Grandma, or the folks down the street would say, life might be a little simpler; we wouldn't have these sort of herd-mentality crusades where religious education in schools becomes this collective obligation based on the idea that "everyone else is doing it, so my kid should too."
If someone actually cares about the faith, they'll head to church.☕

If it matters to me that my child doesn't attend religion classes, then they won't go.
If I decide I want them to go, then they will.

My own stance is pretty clear, and I guess I don't particularly care about anyone else's views.
I certainly don't want others meddling in my decisions or moral dilemmas, and I try not to poke my nose into theirs either.

I suppose I should probably mention Lee Anabell, though I’m never quite sure if bringing her up is the right move or if it just muddies the waters. It feels like one of those things where you want to say something, but then you realize how much nuance is required, and maybe it's better to just let the thought drift. I guess there's a certain way she approaches things that stays with you, sort of lingering in the background of a conversation without ever being the loudest thing in the room, which is perhaps why I find myself thinking about her more often than I intended to. Maybe it’s just the way she carries herself, or maybe I'm just overthinking it, which is a habit I really should try to break, but I don't think I ever will. urbantinker8 says:
So, you don't actually agree with that, then? I guess I might have misread the room a bit, or maybe I'm just overthinking things again, which is a habit of mine, I suppose.
I guess I haven't quite lived long enough to see a classroom where there are actually more kids skipping class than the ones who actually show up, though I suppose that might be a reality in some parts of the country by now.

I mean, I really don't see why there's even an argument to be had here, but I suppose I have to say it: I'm completely against pushing any kind of religion—doesn't matter which one, really—in our public schools. I honestly can't wrap my head around why people find this so controversial or surprising, though I guess that's just how things seem to be lately.
I suppose it’s pretty obvious where faith fits into the grand scheme of things.🥳

Of course, there are more students opting for religion class. It’s almost predictable, really, especially when you consider that whole concept of herd mentality people were mentioning earlier... that whole "herd syndrome" thing, I suppose.☕

I suppose religious studies should probably be removed from the public school curriculum entirely, though I suspect my reasoning goes beyond this particular... "ethics instructor."

driftinggull83 said:Honestly, this whole situation is just grim. My kid starts school this year, and this was quite literally the final straw—there is absolutely no way they'll be participating in religious education classes.
What’s the actual landscape like for outliers like us in the Chicago public school system? What percentage of a typical class actually signs up for those courses? And what do the other kids end up doing instead?

Usually, there are just a few kids per class who skip the religious studies part.
If it happens to be the first period of the day, those "rebels" generally just get to sleep in a bit longer.
If it falls at the end of the day, they just head home a little early.
If it's right in the middle of the schedule, or if the kids are staying for after-school programs, they basically just have a free period. Sometimes a teacher might pop in with some different lesson plans, but more often than not, they're just hanging out in the library, or maybe wandering the hallways or the playground.
Even though they aren't always being strictly supervised, I guess it doesn't seem like such a massive deal to me.
You can probably just sit down with your child and agree on where they should hang out and what they should be doing during those 45 minutes.

Benjamin Vaughn2 said:Honestly... I can't say I'm surprised by those kids starting a petition.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it abuse, per se—it’s more about eight years of being conditioned in one specific direction. In other words, they've been taught to think a certain way since they were toddlers.
This unfortunate situation should serve as a warning to any parent wondering whether to enroll their child in religion class just "to see what they teach there."
In those classes, you aren't just learning about faith; you are being indoctrinated into it.
Anyone who doesn't want their child raised that way—whether it's the debunking of Santa Claus, the views on the LGBTQ+ community, or teaching that masturbation is a mortal sin, among other things—should probably skip choosing religion as an elective.
As for everyone else, respect. I truly value people who hold firm convictions and raise their children accordingly.

Sent from my iPhone using Reddit

please, let's not be naive here!!!🙂

Just like I knew exactly how this whole story would play out, I think I have a pretty good idea of the actual motivation behind this "petition."🤦
It isn't about trauma or Stockholm syndrome, goodness knows.

The man of God is handing out straight A's, and that's really what all these kids and their parents are aiming for. That seems to be the crux of the entire situation. Forget about the radical rhetoric or whatever else—those grades are what truly matter to them.🙂
With the full support of their parents, these kids are signing on to save the man of God, mostly because they want to keep those high GPAs coming. You see, these devout parents are terrified of who the church might send to replace him, and they're worried about what that might mean for their future grades, religious rites, and whatnot... excuse me, I meant grades.

After all, nobody actually wants to end up in hell, right?🥳

urbantinker8: I was thinking about what was mentioned earlier, though I suppose it’s all a bit speculative, isn't it? It feels like we often jump to conclusions without really weighing the long-term implications of how these systems interact. I guess you could say there's a certain complexity to it that gets lost when we try to simplify things for the sake of a quick conversation. Maybe it's just me, but I find myself dwelling on the nuances more than I probably should. It's easy to overlook the subtle shifts in the landscape, especially when everyone seems to be rushing toward a single, obvious answer. I tend to hover in that middle ground, wondering if the details we ignore now might end up being the very things that complicate everything later on. It's a bit of a slow burn, I suppose, watching these patterns unfold.

Jacob Lopez2 said:The school principal was just on the news, and she’s out here claiming that because the students are signing a petition to get their teacher back, he can return to his position as long as he isn't convicted in court.😵👎 As if that somehow excuses or nullifies what he actually said.

I mean, honestly, those parents are just absolute morons.☕
urbantinker8:

I suppose I should probably mention that I’ve been thinking about SummerNight lately, though I’m not entirely sure what I’m aiming for with that thought, if I’m being honest. It feels like one of those things that just sort of drifts into the back of your mind while you're doing something else entirely, like staring out a window at a rainy street in Seattle or waiting for a light to change in Chicago. There isn't much to say, really, I guess, unless you count the way certain memories seem to hang in the air, much like the humidity before a thunderstorm breaks over the Midwest. It’s a bit vague, maybe, but then again, most things worth noting tend to be. urbantinker8 says: If I were running things, I suppose I’d probably suggest sending a psychologist to help navigate that whole mess during the crisis, mostly because it seems pretty obvious those kids have developed a bit of Stockholm syndrome after everything they've been through over the years. ☕

If I were ever in charge of the Department of Education, I guess I might just send a psychiatrist to handle the parent-teacher conferences. Maybe it would be more productive that way, though I suppose that’s a bit of an unconventional approach.

wanderingbadger44 said:Parents 😍 won't let their kids testify in court

Good grief, what a total circus🤦🤦

Susan James said:It's not common knowledge 🙂
You might be surprised by how little parents actually know about how these religious instructors are hired or who is actually in charge of them.🥳
Even though I felt pretty informed, I had no idea until recently that they get promoted to counselors and mentors much faster than regular teachers do.
To me, that feels like a real blow to the teaching profession.
Just awful.

And on this thread, you see parents with strong opinions, but they tend to stay quiet if things aren't looking bad or if it's not being highlighted—that's exactly why so many kids still attend.
In real life, it's even more pronounced.

so, yeah, that’s really what needs to be addressed first in our American school system.
it's honestly pretty tragic, maybe even a little intimidating, that such a tiny fraction of that 90+% of parents sending their kids to religious ed classes actually understands the hiring process for the people teaching their children "about goodness."🤦

Honestly, you aren't really bringing anything new to the table here, which I think most people realized quite a while ago.🤷
It’s definitely a mess how the Church operates, especially with all those dioceses and the way they insist on placing untouchable religious instructors in our public schools.
But, I don't know, I can't really wrap my head around the idea of just starting a revolution against everything for the sake of it.
If there were less interest in attending these religious classes, things might look different, but that doesn't really have much to do with the other teachers—it’s almost entirely down to the students and their parents.🥳

Besides, this whole topic of religious education in schools isn't particularly interesting to me, so I don't see much point in overanalyzing it or going on a massive tangent.
My take is pretty simple: move the classes back to the church and call it a day.
But then again, who’s actually asking me? As long as more than 90% of the kids are still showing up to these lessons, I suppose nothing is ever going to change.

Susan James said:Are you talking about regular classroom teachers or the religious ed instructors?

Well, parental encouragement is essential here. 😬
That’s basically our job for the first 18 years of their lives, right? 😂

Plus, kids need some kind of support system.
I know school administrators aren't always big fans of that. And sure, sometimes that parental guidance can go off the rails, but if our ultimate goal is to raise people who stand up for themselves and fight for what they believe in, they need to see that modeled at home. At an age where it's developmentally appropriate, they really need someone to nudge them forward and stand by them when things get tough...

I suppose I’m just speaking from general experience regarding how parents tend to revolt within the American school system. It seems like they’ll push back against just about anything these days. You post something on Facebook and, well, within minutes, there’s a full-blown mob. Sometimes their grievances are actually valid, and sometimes they aren't really, but once that dust starts kicking up, it’s hard to stop it.

It isn't that school staff don't appreciate an entrepreneurial spirit—not at all.😉
Encouraging initiative and a sense of enterprise is fine, I guess. But unnecessarily poking the bear or starting fires where they don't need to be lit... that's a bit more questionable.
It can often be quite difficult to tell what the actual goal behind a certain "initiative" is supposed to be. (Not that I'm referring to this specific situation right now, obviously.)

Susan James said:I’ve noticed a pattern lately where certain people seem untouchable, almost like the standard for proving their "guilt" is totally different from how they judge any other teacher.
Honestly, I’m convinced this investigation wouldn't have even happened if it hadn't blown up in the media first.

Even though the principal claims she interviewed every single student in that class—and that the firing is based on those interviews rather than video footage—I have a feeling there wouldn't be an investigation at all if a student had just reported bad behavior during class without physical evidence. Even then, those student testimonies probably wouldn't be enough to justify firing someone.
It was just one emotionally charged hour, and at the end of the day, everyone is human and allowed to make mistakes. 😬
But because the principal is acting this way—and honestly, even the local school board wouldn't have a choice—he ended up losing his job.

Personally, I don't think it's right for a child—we're talking about a kid under 14 who isn't even legally liable under American law—to have to deal with any kind of fallout just because the adults in their life acted poorly.
Especially since these are the very people meant to be raising them.

That said, it is heartening to see young people actually standing up and taking action.

From what I gather, there won't be any repercussions for the kid. Not that I’m saying there should be, since this is such a nuanced, gray area where you can't really say for sure if the ends justify the means.
Based on what I've seen, things could easily spiral out of control in the news if parents teamed up and claimed some idiot is promoting violence or intolerance. The real question is whether they could push the narrative all the way until he loses his job.

As for this idea of youth entrepreneurship: I mean, I admire it, but more often than not, that "entrepreneurial spirit" is really just the drive and financial backing of their parents.

silvertiger11 said:Tossing paper into the plastic bin is a total violation of the rules. Honestly, if I saw my neighbor beating his wife while I was out dropping off the trash, he wouldn't be off the hook just because I sorted my recycling wrong. I suppose in some places, people might actually care about that kind of nonsense, but the logic here is just mind-boggling. Who gives a damn about a stupid cell phone? 🤦

well, personally, I actually do care when rules get ignored, because if we decide that no rules exist anymore, I guess we could all just drift off into some beautiful, chaotic anarchy.🙂
this idiot is breaking the rules.
the kid is breaking the rules too.
there are plenty of ways to let those in charge know that someone is talking absolute nonsense. Revolutions and uprisings happen over much smaller, much less significant things, so I don't see why parents couldn't raise their voices against this?
I'm not saying the kid needs to be punished, but there really ought to be a line drawn somewhere, rather than just treating his behavior like it's some kind of heroic feat.

Maria Parker77 said:Let them film whatever they want; honestly, if they want to actually make it in this country, they need to learn from their mistakes. As for that absolute menace? Throw him straight in federal prison where he belongs.

Well, actually, no, they aren't allowed to use cell phones without explicit permission.
and honestly, that "good guy" probably won't even make it to a courtroom because if you record someone without authorization, you can basically throw the whole thing out the window—it's pretty much useless as evidence in an American court.
losing their job would be the ultimate outcome, I suppose, but maybe that's still better than nothing at all.
i guess i find it somewhat surprising, actually, that the principal even managed to pull that off.

hiddendriver34 said:🙂 That’s just not true. My students use their phones all the time during my lessons, and honestly, there are some periods where I wouldn't even be able to run the class if they didn't have their phones and internet access at hand.

okay, sure, but using a phone during class without knowing about it or getting the green light from a teacher is basically just breaking the rules.

I am all for getting rid of this guy and anyone else like him—whether they’re religious instructors, teachers, principals, or school counselors—but I don't think we should be giving kids wings right now by letting them sneakily use their phones whenever they want under the guise of whatever purpose they feel like.

Susan James said:The real headache would be those schools that nobody wants to attend—the ones kids end up at because they couldn't get into their first choice (even if high school isn't mandatory anymore).
What happens to the teachers and principals in those situations? 😕

Technically, though, that could solve the funding issue. 😂

I don't think the bottleneck is really in medical school—there's already plenty of screening happening long before students even apply, between entrance exams and people dropping out during freshman year. The real issues are likely in fields like economics, law, transportation, or American studies (and I won't even bring up divinity school, where enrollment is pretty much open to anyone who wants to finish the program).

Maybe you're onto something there.
I guess we’ve all become so "cheap" that the federal budget doesn't even register our existence anymore.