Posts by urbantinker8

Michelle Nelson4 said:After spending two and a half years navigating the American school system, I can personally vouch for every single word said here. Their goal seems to be producing a flock of average, obedient students where no one stands out. They have zero interest in dealing with anyone on an individual basis beyond the bare minimum (like if a student is struggling with the material); they much prefer managing the group as a whole. All problems are ultimately shifted onto the children and the parents. They always wash their hands of any responsibility or extra effort, especially when it involves taking initiative (and I'm primarily talking about the "developmental" aspect, though the academic side isn't much better either). Ultimately, everything boils down to making sure your child comes out of the American school system with as little damage as possible.

Well, having dealt with the American school system for fifteen years now, I think I might have to disagree, because I honestly feel you guys are missing the mark entirely.

casualowl33 said:Saying there was no other way...

Personally, I find it pretty annoying, and I know the students do too, but since we're such a specialized high school, I imagine putting the master schedule together is a total nightmare...

Think about it—a vocational high school with a massive amount of different tracks and split programs, located in a smaller town where kids already have these long commutes... you can't exactly force an extra zero period on them first thing in the morning or late at night, right?
And if you happen to be dealing with limited classroom space on top of everything else, trying to organize a master schedule feels like a nearly impossible mission.😁

casualowl33 said:At my school, we have this one student who actually gets a bit of a break while the rest of his class is stuck in religious studies, since he’s the only one scheduled for ethics during that period... It honestly couldn't have been timed any better, giving him that extra space in his schedule to really focus on his coursework...

That's quite a thing.
I don't think I've ever heard of a situation like that before, honestly.

Larry Walker24 said:Same here. My group was basically the last generation stuck with that "religion or bust" choice.

Personally, I chose "nothing"—which mostly just meant grabbing coffee and a smoke at the local diner instead.

Same here, I guess.🙂

nimblelynx7 said:I graduated back in 2004, and for as long as I can remember, the schedule was always a mess.

It wasn't just the first or last period. We had Ethics classes lumped together with three other sections because there were only 15 of us total.

Fair enough.
but we’re looking at 2018 now.
I suppose we have to assume things have shifted quite a bit in the intervening years.

nimblelynx7 said:Religious studies and ethics don't necessarily have to be taught simultaneously; for some people, they’re two completely different things.

It doesn't actually state anywhere that they have to overlap, though in practice, they almost always do.
In any case, even if they aren't happening simultaneously, it just means classes end up being scheduled during zero period, first period, or the very last period of the day; there aren't really any gaps created just because one half of the class is taking ethics while the other takes religious studies.
So, either they are held during the same block, or else the rest of the students are either coming in early for zero period or leaving school early.

By the way, I think more than twenty years ago, I attended a high school where ethics wasn't mandatory. It was basically either religious studies or nothing at all, I suppose.🎉

Susan James said:I wouldn't say that applies to everyone.
We've seen examples of this locally, and I know from working at IBM where the kids end up during that time. Sometimes they're with a teacher, sometimes with a librarian, and sometimes they're just left to their own devices. It’s two 45-minute blocks.
And no, they aren't necessarily having fun.
I really don't think this should be happening in elementary school. Kids shouldn't have to deal with those kinds of experiences right at the start of their schooling.

My daughter, on the other hand, loves it.
She actually prefers being in the study hall, especially during the last period rather than the first. She gets a kick out of when the kids attending religious ed tell her, "Man, you're lucky!" (since they usually head out after the fourth period), or she loves finally getting through her reading assignment in one go without having to borrow a book from someone else.
(There’s more to it that she tells me, but I don't feel like typing it all out right now)

I sat down with my daughter to walk her through what the schedule would look like. Knowing exactly where she'd be during that time, combined with the fact that she knows at least one other kid who isn't attending the religious classes, made the conversation much easier.
Because, let's be real, I do care. 🤷
I believe that just as we prepare our children for the responsibilities of school in general, we also need to prepare them for these two hours.

Look, let's not make this a whole thing.☕

What kind of "experience" are we even talking about here? If a kid is just hanging out at school for two forty-five-minute sessions a week, I don't see the issue. I guess you might be overthinking it, if you ask me.🙄

And, if I step back from my own situation for a second and just look at the kids in my neighborhood... well, most of them would probably jump at an opportunity like that.

I'm not sure why you'd assume I hadn't prepared my kid for every possible scenario. We talked through everything well in advance, to the point where, by the end of it, neither of us really cared who was going with whom or why people were opting out. When I talk to him, I don't feel the need to bring up which classmates will be there or which ones won't.
In the end, he was actually a little bummed that he wouldn't have both of those hours free every week. It didn't matter much to him whether he was alone or with someone else.

rowdypanther12 said:I’m honestly not worried about what might happen to my kid on the playground. Not at all.
But I still won't accept them sitting outside the door like a dog, and they certainly aren't going to sit there listening to religious studies through the cracks.
The school needs to figure out a proper place for my child to be during that time.🙂

Thankfully, we have a great teacher and a sensible school, so they’re either out on the playground under supervision, in an empty classroom, or in the library.

From what I’ve seen, kids who don't participate in religious studies seem to have a perfectly fine time during that free period—I wouldn't say they're necessarily having the time of their lives, but they enjoy themselves enough, whether they're hanging out in the hallway, a different classroom, the library, or out on the yard.
I guess the only slightly tricky part of the whole situation is the supervision aspect, though even that isn't much of an issue for me, so I don't really spend much time overthinking it.

Susan James said:And you'd feel the exact same way if they scheduled it during the 2nd or 3rd period.🤔

This thread has 167 pages and has been around since 2005. People keep posting about the issue of non-religious kids being stuck in after-school programs during religion class because of how it's slotted into the weekly schedule.
Parents make their decisions based on that timing, which feels like a subtle way of forcing them to enroll their children in religion classes despite their own beliefs—simply because they care about who and how their kids will spend those two 45-minute blocks every week.

Okay, you might have luck avoiding this stress because you actually follow the recommendations from organizations like the ACLU regarding scheduling it during the first or last periods. Though, honestly, if they're in after-school care, that last period doesn't really matter unless it's the 5th period and they get picked up from the program—kind of like how some kids get picked up right after math tutoring.

But for the vast majority of people, it's not that simple. You have to wonder if the scheduling is this consistent across all grades in your child's school:

First off, mathematically, it’s impossible for everyone to have it during the first period, since there are only five first periods in a week—or ten if the school runs on a split shift.
Second, they try to ensure the religion teachers don't end up with massive gaps in their schedules.
Third, those last periods don't make much sense for kids in after-school programs, or for 4th graders with foreign language or older students with computer science or classics, because the kids end up just waiting around, and religion class takes priority.

When you crunch all those numbers, you realize that sometimes certain classes have religion during the 2nd or 3rd period, and even when it is the 4th period, they still have a 5th period—like an elective such as German 🥳
(or they don't at all).

It’s completely normal for parents to ask how many kids are attending or not, because that determines whether they can successfully lobby for it to be the 1st period (though even that isn't a guarantee, since some parents won't have it work for their schedule if it shifts to the 2nd period), or if they can get a coherent, organized morning block if there are 7, 8, or 12 kids.

Regarding the topic of the nun who was questioning today whether other teachers would be treated the same way her colleague was... of course they wouldn't.
In any other case, he would have been processed immediately on November 29th (the day he started talking nonsense) with an extraordinary termination. Instead, the school tried to cover up the report for a whole month, and then, after nobody reacted, someone leaked the footage to the media, effectively ruining Christmas. 🥳

If what the journalists are reporting is true, this is absolutely terrible.From his education level to his overall attitude toward his work at the school (especially since he was also a homeroom teacher).

fair point.
i guess it’s kind of like how I don't really get worn out by a forty-five minute stretch, so i suppose i wouldn't really be feeling any different if it were ninety minutes either.

Raymond Jones8 said:Look, one of the main reasons we picked this specific school was because they have this policy where religion class is either the very first period or the very last one through fourth grade. And honestly, based on what we’ve seen over these past two years, that’s actually how it plays out. If the kids are on the afternoon shift, it’s the first thing they do; if they're there in the morning, it's the last thing on the schedule.
Plus, you have to consider that maybe a third of the kids don't even sign up for it. Since the classes are already pretty small—we're talking under 20 students per room—they just end up merging two different grades together for that one hour.

But looking at the official master schedule here, it says religion is scheduled for two periods a week, yet everyone in this thread keeps saying it's just one hour.🤔

I guess I should clarify that I'm referring to just one hour per week because, in my kid's class, that lesson is always either the opening period or the closing one.
When it's the first period, the kid just isn't at school yet, so I don't really have to stress about managing the classroom bully or that one kid who won't stop cracking jokes.
If it's the last period, the "issue" is mostly just that they have after-school care, so they have to stay on campus. If they didn't have after-school care, I suppose that hour wouldn't even be an issue.😉

Sarah Hall53 said:

I don't really know where to start with this one—it’s kind of a mess in my head—but I just felt like I had to get it out there. It’s funny how some things just hit you out of nowhere, right? Like, you’re just going about your day, maybe grabbing a coffee at Starbucks or something, and suddenly you're thinking about these deep, complicated stuff that you probably shouldn't be worrying about at 10:00 AM. Anyway... it's all just a bit much sometimes. Just a bit much. kaže:
I guess I should probably start by saying... well, I don't really know where to begin, honestly—it’s one of those things that feels a bit overwhelming when you actually sit down to type it out—but I figured I’d just jump in and try to share what's on my mind. It’s kind of funny, actually, how these things work—how you just sort of find yourself staring at a blinking cursor for ten minutes before realizing you have something to say—anyway, here goes nothing. I mean, honestly... isn't this just a massive overreaction? It feels like everyone is just totally blowing things way out of proportion—it’s actually kind of wild if you think about it.
I mean, honestly—stuff like that probably only happens during the Dark Ages... or maybe just when everyone’s gone back to believing in alchemy and magic instead of actual science.🙄 That’s exactly why it matters so much—you really need to know the specifics. Like, how many kids from class A, B, or C are actually heading off to religion class at any given moment? And you have to account for where everyone is—like if the librarian is tied up, or what the teacher is actually working on right then. It gets so messy. Plus, there's the whole issue of why certain kids aren't getting extra help or tutoring sessions—or why some *are* getting them at that exact time, which honestly feels like it’s just picking favorites and leaving the rest of the class in the dust. It’s all about those little details that make everything feel unfair.🤦
Hey, everyone—just take a breath and relax for a second. Seriously.☕

I mean, honestly—aside from when they’re off at religious studies or whatever—there aren't many times where you see little kids just wandering the hallways for forty-five minutes straight without a single adult keeping an eye on them. It’s one of those things that really sticks in my mind... just sitting there in the hall, totally unsupervised.

well, look, I don't know about all that, honestly.
my kid basically treats after-school care like his own private playground, and every single time I show up to pick him up, the teacher seems to have absolutely no clue where he actually wandered off to.🤣
plus, you have some first graders—and honestly, most of the second graders—walking to school all by themselves, so I guess they can handle being unsupervised if they have to.
and finally—and I really, truly mean this—I think there are plenty of places in the world far more dangerous than a school hallway, so I don't really see the point in making such a huge deal out of those 45 minutes.

Susan James said:Well, that's just your kid; not everyone is built that way.
There are children who have been raised to follow the crowd, kids who are shy, or those who, frankly, don't need to practice "life skills" by sitting alone in a hallway for two hours a week at the start of middle school.
Independence is learned in other ways, too.

To me, it feels completely normal (actually, it's pretty responsible) for a parent to check if their child will have a free period. You want to be able to prepare them accordingly.
Simply telling my daughter, "You know there's a class you can choose not to take, and we decided you won't go," just wasn't enough for her.
I explained why we didn't pick it, what actually happens during that time, and all the activities available during that period (based on what I heard from parents of older kids and the guidance counselors during enrollment).

But people try to think ahead. It's better to prevent something than to deal with the fallout later.
And the issue isn't just the class bully; it's that seven-year-old who ends up alone in the hallway (because they "accidentally" missed science class), wanders around the school, and then suddenly becomes an interesting target for the younger kids for whatever reason.
They could be questioned, teased for their lunch money, or pressured into all sorts of things...

That's why parents care so much about where their child is during religious studies and whether they'll be by themselves.
It's not like the library is open in every school, and not all teachers want to supervise the kids in religious studies, especially since it's often not part of their paid contract.

to me>, this whole thing feels like a massive exaggeration.
I mean, it seems like stuff like this would only really happen during religious studies class🙄 so it becomes incredibly important to track exactly how many kids from group A, B, or C are attending, which teacher happens to be working in the library at that exact moment, and why there isn't a makeup session—or why there *is* a makeup session at that specific time, which might end up discriminating against the rest of the class, and so on and so forth.🤦
just relax, everyone.☕

Susan James said:Well, that's just your kid; not everyone is built that way.
There are children who have been raised to follow the crowd, kids who are shy, or those who, frankly, don't need to practice "life skills" by sitting alone in a hallway for two hours a week at the start of middle school.
Independence is learned in other ways, too.

To me, it feels completely normal (actually, it's pretty responsible) for a parent to check if their child will have a free period. You want to be able to prepare them accordingly.
Simply telling my daughter, "You know there's a class you can choose not to take, and we decided you won't go," just wasn't enough for her.
I explained why we didn't pick it, what actually happens during that time, and all the activities available during that period (based on what I heard from parents of older kids and the guidance counselors during enrollment).

But people try to think ahead. It's better to prevent something than to deal with the fallout later.
And the issue isn't just the class bully; it's that seven-year-old who ends up alone in the hallway (because they "accidentally" missed science class), wanders around the school, and then suddenly becomes an interesting target for the younger kids for whatever reason.
They could be questioned, teased for their lunch money, or pressured into all sorts of things...

That's why parents care so much about where their child is during religious studies and whether they'll be by themselves.
It's not like the library is open in every school, and not all teachers want to supervise the kids in religious studies, especially since it's often not part of their paid contract.

well, thank goodness, I suppose; I'm talking about my own child, not anyone else's.
I'm speaking for myself here, not on behalf of someone else.

that’s why I keep saying that I really don't care who was where at any given moment.
He always tells me where he's been, and I don't feel the need to grill him every single time about who he was with, or exactly who said or did what during a specific timeframe.

for both me and my child, that's more than enough, I think.

Jacob Lopez2 said:Frankly, I don't see why we should care what a kid is doing when they aren't in religious studies; what does that have to do with attending the class in the first place? If a bully corners my child in the hallway and I find out there's an issue, of course we’re going to step in and take action, but that certainly doesn't mean my child should be forced into religious education because of it. The logic behind linking those two things is completely nonsensical to me.

You have to address a classroom bully regardless of whether that kid attends religion class or not, and it shouldn't matter if my own child goes to those classes either.
I don't really see the point in keeping tabs on who shows up, who stays away, or who's off causing trouble while the religion class is actually happening, I suppose.

Sarah Hall53 said:I mean, look—take a scenario where your kid is in religion class, right? But the school bully isn't there; they just hang out in the library while the librarian is busy doing her own thing, or they're just loitering in the hallway... I honestly think that’s the kind of stuff you’d actually care about. Or what about that one kid who’s always looking for trouble? If it’s just two or three of them together, there's always that nagging worry that they might pull your kid into whatever mess they're planning. Suddenly, wouldn't you want to know about that too?

well, whether you believe me or not—I don't really think so.
The class bully is pretty much always around, whether it's during recess, during class, at lunch, or during after-school programs.
And when they're outside during those after-school hours (which lasts about an hour, sometimes longer), the teachers aren't constantly watching every single student. So, it's basically the same situation as the religious ed class.
I talk to my son quite a bit about how to handle people like that; he's got pretty strong social skills and knows how to hold his own, so he's not particularly easy to sway... so, crazy as it sounds, I'm not overly worried about potential dangerous situations.

rowdypanther12 said:I honestly don't know, chatting with a nutritionist is just part of my routine, much like how we used to discuss religious studies back in school—you know, catching up on sports, seeing who’s walking to class alone, or who's sitting with whom...
Those kinds of things come up in our daily conversations all the time, so of course I'm curious.

and I'm interested in stuff like who he sits with, what they covered in class, or if he picked up any new skills in PE...
but I really couldn't care less about exactly who he was chatting with or what the topic was last Thursday at 11:48 AM.
or on Tuesday during the big lunch break.
whatever.

rowdypanther12 said:I can't help but wonder who my kid is hanging out with during religious studies class.
My decision to enroll them isn't based on their social circle, obviously, but I'm still curious.
And honestly, I'm just glad they aren't going alone; having a few friends there makes it much better.

I’m just not some Big Brother type who feels the need to monitor exactly which kids they're socializing with during those specific forty-five minutes once a week.🤷
I don't really look at things through that lens, I guess.
I already know their general circle of friends, so it doesn't feel particularly vital to me to track who they're with every Thursday between 11:30 and noon.

It’s one thing to talk about where kids might be hanging out at that particular hour, but it's an entirely different matter to worry about how many there actually are.
To be honest, I don't see why anyone would care about the second part; I mean, what am I supposed to do with that kind of information?
Whether there are three of them or seven, it doesn't really make much of a difference to me, I guess. 🤷

rowdyjackal56 said:Let’s be honest, children aren't exactly motivated by deep theological convictions when it comes to attending religious education classes—I mean, unless you count that one hyper-aware six-year-old who probably understands existentialism better than most adults—but rather they simply follow the lead of their parents or drift toward whatever their buddies are doing.
I can already see my little guy wanting to sign up just because his best friend is going, but we are firmly positioned to steer him in a different direction. We have already made the decision that he won't be participating, and interestingly enough, when other parents asked if he was attending, they seemed almost visibly relieved when we said no; currently, there are four families I know who are opting out, which essentially constitutes an entire cohort. However, someone has to be the catalyst; a critical mass has to be established, otherwise, we are just spinning our wheels without any real progress.
Because I recognize the potential for building a significant movement within this school district, he will be attending the local sessions here rather than waiting until we relocate before the new school year kicks off. It is quite simple: an individual acting in isolation can certainly speak up or take a stand, but the odds are heavily stacked against them. It is through organized collective action that actual miracles happen, so let's see how this unfolds.

I mean, obviously kids aren't doing it based on their own beliefs.
But then again, I suppose most parents aren't pushing it because of a sudden spiritual awakening either; it’s usually more about just following the social flow, like if the neighbor's kid is doing it.

I honestly haven't the slightest clue how many kids in my little one's class attend religious studies or skip it, mostly because I just don't really care to find out. If anyone even brought it up during a PTA meeting, I don't think I even registered it.

Susan James said:The only way to really know is if you happen to know someone who isn't taking it. Then, if they ask you to pick a teacher or a buddy, you can just request to be in the same group as that friend—that way you’re pretty sure there will be at least two of them. That’s actually what I did, though it turned out there were way more kids skipping it in the other parallel class anyway. 😂

Birthday parties (which I've never been a huge fan of) are actually a great way to gather intel.
Public schools tend to be pretty protective of their data regarding who opts out, and sometimes they even give you a vague answer like, "Oh, everyone who signed up is attending."

From my own experience, it is much easier to sign them up later than it is to withdraw them once they're already enrolled (since you usually have to wait until the end of the school year to opt out).

Does it really matter that much to you guys, who is going and who isn't, or how many people are in this group versus that one..? 😲
I mean, that explains a lot about people, I suppose, but I still find it a bit hard to wrap my head around. 🤔

When I was doing the whole enrollment process, I felt like I could have asked about absolutely anything, especially since I had two inside connections I could lean on to get the real scoop on teachers, religious studies classes, room assignments, all that stuff.
It wasn't that I didn't ask anything, it's more that I didn't want to push too hard to make sure he ended up with his old preschool buddies.
As it turned out, he was actually the only one from his little preschool group in his entire class; the rest of the kids were spread out among the other classrooms.
And honestly, I don't regret it one bit. He's made both old and new friends now and seems perfectly happy. It couldn't have worked out better, and I'm actually quite glad I didn't try to rig things in his favor. 🙏