Posts by urbantinker8

So, you're telling me just one single school in the whole of Chicago is actually going to implement this nonsense?!🤣
Unbelievable.
(I don't really take these private elementary schools seriously, though; they always feel like these somewhat spooky places with incredibly strange sets of rules)
I actually have a friend attending Lincoln Elementary, so I might reach out to her and see how on earth they managed to talk them into this idea🙂

Carl Bishop2 said:I mean, look—it’s not necessarily "wrong," but it definitely feels off when everyone is supposed to be at a level 5, yet some people are coasting at a 5 while others are barely hitting a 3. It’s just an inconsistent setup, you know?

I suppose that's more of an issue with the local elementary schools rather than the high schools.

Betty Wood54 said:I suppose one might wonder... what's stopping people from just choosing a general education track first, and then moving on to university or vocational programs later on?

I guess nothing is wrong with that, really. Though, you know, there are plenty of solid vocational programs out there that still allow you to transition into a four-year college later on.

mellowskipper said:Of course they don't have to. But if the entry requirements for prep school are limited strictly to students with a 76+ score, then fine—let it be that way in Syracuse, Columbus, or even Santa Monica... instead of just being some thing that happens in Washington, D.C.
Or maybe, I guess, the actual problem lies elsewhere altogether...

Not every high school actually has a 76-point cutoff; I think that might just be adding a bit of unnecessary drama to this whole discussion.
If my memory serves me right, over the last few years, for instance, a school like Lincoln High had a threshold below 70, but now it's become incredibly popular because of its new building and location.
As for Sioux Falls or Columbus, I honestly haven't a clue, and I don't really follow what their specific requirements are.

I guess you have to wonder, does everyone really need to go to a prep school?

hiddenseal14 said:It's an island campus. They deal with unique working conditions.

The problem is that you people are looking at this entirely through a metropolitan lens! For kids living in rural areas, a school isn't just a building—it's their sole gateway to education, their primary hub for culture, and their only real chance at social interaction. For them, this is absolutely vital. One of the fundamental goals of the Department of Education is to bridge the massive gap between urban academic standards and those found in our rural heartlands, and programs like this are essential to achieving that.

Well, that logic is just completely broken, isn't it? 🙂🙂🙂
So, what, we should just screw over the other 90% of American kids just to accommodate that 10% living in remote areas?🙏
I don't even know what else I'm going to read in here today.🤦

Predictable. Those poor kids.
Honestly, if there is any way at all to get them moved back into standard public schools and away from this constant, all-day nonsense, you should just do it.
I suppose we’re eventually going to have to hold these older generations accountable for their lack of common sense, though I'm not sure how that will play out.🙂

rowdypanther12 said:Ugh, honestly, ABC News is driving me absolutely insane right now 😂
. I mean, do these journalists actually know anything at all? Where is that female reporter from PBS who usually covers education? Has she ever even interviewed this idiot? And why does he keep obsessing over elementary school when this applies to every single grade level?!

I suppose it’s just because that old fossil keeps lying through his teeth just to keep the public distracted.
He—and I really want to emphasize *him* here—claims that their primary focus was always on the kids.🙂
No, you idiot, you never cared about the children; you only ever cared about sucking up to your political donors.🤮
And then there's this part where he suggests teachers will be working an extra eighteen minutes a day.🙂🙂
It's honestly just ridiculous. I don't think I could even look myself in the mirror if I were in his shoes.
She should probably just go back to being a veterinarian, because she clearly doesn't have a clue about anything else.
🤮

rowdypanther12, we’re really getting down into the weeds here, and honestly, listening to those "arguments" you keep bringing up feels a bit like watching a Fox News segment.
just to be clear, personally, when it comes to my job (so thanks for that little jab you mentioned), CN doesn't really affect me at all.
but, on a personal level? yeah, it concerns me immensely.
I’ve gone through the proposals, and I have to say, I was actually pretty horrified by all the gaps—it’s full of missed opportunities where things could have been genuinely positive. It led me to conclude that this whole thing should probably just stay as an abstract idea, or maybe just a niche option for parents who, for some inexplicable reason, are desperate for it (though I can’t quite wrap my head around what kind of parent would actually want this for their 14-year-old).
I don't think I could ever accept this version of a "new era" because it seems to have absolutely nothing to do with common sense. And since this plan lacks any real logic or reason, you can list those "pro arguments" of yours a hundred times for all I care.
I suppose anyone who looks at this and sees a step forward for our school system is either a career politician or... well, rowdypanther12.😳

Jason Morgan said:I think you’re giving the folks over at the Department of Education far too much credit. Nobody there is actually engaging in any meaningful, long-term strategic thinking—which explains why we see this same brand of chaotic mismanagement every few years. If they would just bother to reach out to the actual experts who work directly with children on the ground, things might improve, but even that seems like too much effort for them.

That’s pretty much it.
The kids aren't even on their radar, I guess. It’s like they couldn't care less what happens to the students, since it seems like no Secretary of Education has ever truly given a damn about them. 🙂
All they seem to care about is sucking up to political heavyweights, self-promotion, and making sure the money trail stays blurry.
Kids? Please. They aren't even thinking about that.🤦

Carl Bishop2 said:You brought students with special needs into this conversation, even though my primary point was about how computers can benefit students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds and immigrant children (to help them better learn the language and integrate more smoothly into society). So, I hadn't mentioned kids with learning disabilities until now.
And then Africa decided to call me out over things she just imagined—forgive me for responding to posts where I'm being questioned or singled out.

But seriously, we can get back to the computers now.
I don't have a firm opinion on how much teaching staff is needed in the A2 section because I just don't know enough about the specifics.
What do you think? How many specialists or teachers should be in a classroom of 25 students—where, say, four of them require accommodations, like in a 5th-grade A2 setting?

Well, I brought up students with disabilities because they exist in every single classroom, and I noticed that fuchsic didn't even bother to account for them in his projections.
In my view, there isn't any number of teachers that would allow someone to effectively teach an A2 course in a standard classroom containing 15 average students, 3 or 4 advanced ones, and maybe 5 or 6 who are struggling. There just isn't.
That seems to be what we've been talking about this whole time.

rowdypanther12 said:I’m just sitting here reading and watching everything you have to say, right down to the last word. 😂

🤣
well, yeah, they definitely exist,😁
mine is one of those kids who just completely transforms whenever the holidays roll around,🤦
but I am pretty much certain she won't be acting like that until at least eighth grade, I suppose.😂

Carl Bishop2 said:I don't think the blame lies with the parents at all; the math simply doesn't add up. When you have one teacher overseeing 25 kids—or one preschool educator handling a group of 25 toddlers—you're looking at a structural deficit. That's a systemic failure, not a parenting one.

It isn't really the teachers' fault either.
When there's any kind of "non-compliance" with IMF guidelines, they always seem to be the first—and honestly, the only—ones getting targeted.
Even if we somehow had three teachers in a single classroom, which, let's face it, is never going to happen in our current system, it's just impossible for the whole structure to constantly bend itself to accommodate every single individual. Some students simply won't fit in, and they probably never will, no matter how much effort the faculty puts in.
And, if I may steer us back to the actual topic (I'm not quite sure why you keep trying to dodge it, by the way? 🤔)—what kind of strategy are you thinking of that would actually help students with special needs? And just how many teachers or specialists do you think would need to be crammed into a single classroom in this part of the country every day just so they could provide that level of personalized attention every child deserves, whether they are performing at an average level, or perhaps slightly below or above it ?

Well, look, I suppose there are people like that out there, though they certainly aren't the majority, if that makes any sense.
You have those kids who are basically wired to need constant social interaction; they can't stand being on their own, and they don't mind all the typical high school drama or moving from group to group. They aren't necessarily struggling with the actual coursework, but I guess they still find it helpful to have someone checking in on them occasionally or helping them structure their homework assignments.
And honestly, if their parents are working those grueling nine-to-five shifts just to make ends meet, but they still want to ensure their kid is supervised and eating three decent meals a day—then maybe a center like this is actually a pretty solid choice for families in that situation...
.....
.....especially during those first two or three years of schooling.☕

Carl Bishop2 said:urbantinker8, I haven't actually had a chance to dig into that document yet—trying to open it on my phone is a total nightmare, and since I'm working on my desktop right now, I don't really touch the computer during my downtime. My point was simply that I’m interested in seeing the bigger picture and hearing what everyone else has gone through; if you all just want to vent about this reform, feel free—the floor is yours. Just to be clear, I’m not out here defending this reform or Fuchsov’s vision.
It’s honestly tough to reply to every single person without turning this into one giant wall of quotes, so I'll try to keep it brief:
Persephone and whoever else—if you aren't running actual surveys at your school, you don't really have a pulse on what's actually happening on the ground. I definitely agree that the lack of disciplinary consequences is a massive issue. We aren't teaching kids how to take responsibility for their own actions.
jadetinker85, if people are coming to you to confide that they're planning fights at school, then clearly you're doing something right. 👍
Monstera, I’ve been reading your posts for years regarding how to handle kids with special needs. It seems like your advice is always some version of "they shouldn't go to preschool so they can play in the park" or "they shouldn't stay in after-school care." As a parent of a child with neurodivergent needs, I have to say that your stance can actually be quite harmful to those kids—especially since you present yourself as an expert, which leads people to believe your perspective is grounded in professional insight. Kids with disabilities are far too diverse a group for a "one size fits all" solution. What works for one child won't work for another; for some, going home early from school might be best, while for others, staying longer might be the better option. The reality is that our institutions struggle to adapt to individual needs, which I get, but please stop trying to sell parents the idea that these rigid structures are being implemented for the "well-being" of the child.

The real issue, I think, is that you—much like other parents of children with special needs—don't seem to grasp the fact that institutions simply cannot cater to every single child, precisely because every diagnosis is so unique. You have one teacher for twenty-five students. So, by all means, go ahead and crucify her if she fails to perfectly follow individualized instruction guidelines for every single one of the five or six kids in her class (and honestly, the average in a typical American public school is likely even higher than what I see in my local community college).
There is just this constant insistence on individual rights, which seems to be the beginning and end of every argument, while nobody really cares about the actual conditions within the classroom or the school itself.
And, if I may wander slightly off-topic: in what world could a centralized concept like this ever be a good solution when you consider how incredibly diverse these kids are, including all the different types of disorders you mentioned? Actually, thinking about the specific students I currently teach or have taught in the past—for even one single child with a diagnosis, a concept like this wouldn't even be on the table. What I mentioned earlier—the idea of implementing actual instruction through specialized teams working in pairs, small groups, or even 1:1 settings—that might actually make sense, but anything else is just nonsense.
So, naturally, we're all tearing this idea apart. Anyone who has any real-world experience working with children is going to be critical of this plan.
It would probably be a good idea to actually look over that document, especially if there's even a slight chance your own child could be affected by it.

Bryan Wells11 said:

I don't know what you're trying to say here. It’s just one word. If you have an actual point to make, then make it. Otherwise, why even post? kaže:
Just because "someone" benefits from a mountain of extra credit every single day, and just because "someone" can't seem to finish an assignment without help, doesn't mean "everyone" should be forced to deal with endless supplemental work and constant supervision. And that's how it goes for eight years. Eight YEARS!!!
Exactly—residency permits are there for those who actually want them or are required to have them. But let’s be real: not everyone wants one, and certainly not everyone needs one. And they definitely don't need to be stuck dealing with that for 8 YEARS!!!
Look, this isn't even personal. I’m not attacking you directly, but your posts are just way too overly empathetic toward a minority dealing with school struggles. It makes it seem like the majority is expected to constantly bend over backward just so that small group can fit in at any cost. Maybe it's just my take, but it feels like average or even high-achieving kids are being penalized—like they have teachers breathing down their necks for eight hours a day just to finish assignments they could easily do in their sleep.
If this actually happens, we’re going to end up raising and educating entire generations of completely helpless, incompetent losers. I guess it's inevitable at this rate.
They might as well just invent some sort of full-day care model for kids requiring individualized accommodations—assuming their diagnoses, like ADHD, don't strictly prohibit it. But if they go that route, those programs should be run by actual professionals—pedagogues, psychologists, special educators, and speech therapists—working in small groups or one-on-one. Anything else is pointless.
It’s honestly ridiculous to screw over an entire class for eight years just because of some scheduling nonsense. We're stuck with this eight-hour "workday" when the reality is a total mess: Ivan doesn't even have a proper desk, Stefan can't wrap his head around math, and Bara is struggling with dyslexia. It's just poorly managed.🙄

Exactly.
It feels like people have been playing the victim since their school days. Honestly, just hand over your pathetic little diagnoses and your endless list of grievances so these people with messiah complexes can pretend they’re performing some grand act of social good. It's exhausting—there is just so much empty, hollow sentimentality out there, from high-ranking government officials all the way down the ladder.
The reality is a total mess that doesn't serve anyone. There are students with diagnoses who belong in specialized classrooms or integrated programs with dedicated aides—that’s the only way this works, and frankly, it's the only fair approach for them, the other students, and the teachers alike. I guess my view is that kids with specific needs should be working with educational therapists and specialists who actually know how to help them master the curriculum based on their individual abilities. Professional support isn't optional; it's necessary.
That’s only one side of the story. We also have kids who struggle academically, so parents take them for evaluations just to get a piece of paper—and those papers can be used to justify just about anything. You end up with students where it's impossible to invest even the slightest bit of mental effort into modifying criteria, offering extra credit, or providing more time, because if you did, they'd just use those accommodations to pad their grades. Now, we're looking at a situation where all the kids are stuck sitting in summer school with them, endlessly repeating material they couldn't grasp in the first place.
Furthermore, you end up dealing with kids who have legitimate issues, yet their parents act completely oblivious and refuse any kind of intervention. So, you’re left struggling with these various disorders without even knowing where to begin.
Then you have the kids with behavioral disorders. In my opinion, they’re the toughest group to deal with—often dangerous to themselves and everyone around them. You practically can't do anything with them; they sabotage the entire learning process and cause daily disruptions, yet they just cycle through the school system without any meaningful change or improvement in their behavior. It honestly gives me the chills to think that, under this massive new plan, all children will be forced to spend twice as much time locked in rooms with them. Some kids are already desperate to just get home the second they finish class if there's someone like that in the room—or even just a typical bully without a diagnosis. Now, imagine having to eat lunch with them and then deal with that chaos all afternoon. It’s horrific. What a wonderful way to enrich the educational experience.
The most neglected group out there is actually well-behaved, polite, average, or even high-achieving kids. It sounds harsh, I guess, but that’s just how it is. We are constantly obsessed with some kind of collective rehabilitation and forced equity. It’s a grim reality.

🙏🙏🙏
there isn't much else to say.

Carl Bishop2, it’s actually quite sad that you’re here, ready to lecture for a dozen posts about something you don't even truly care about, and you haven't even grasped the core of the argument🙄
it’s classic forum behavior, I guess.🙂
And then you twist the argument again to explain why people are complaining: imagine, maybe disgruntled teachers aren't just looking out for their own wallets or how much more money they can squeeze out of a salary increase, but are (unlike many parents) actually aware that mainstreaming for children is an extremely bad idea.😲
Look, I personally have nothing to do with mainstreaming in a professional or financial sense, but I wouldn't want a single one of my own children to catch that nonsense, and I’ll fight against that kind of confinement however I can.

Carl Bishop2 said:The point I was making is simply that full-day schooling isn't bad for everyone; some students can actually benefit quite a bit from it.
As for the rest of your comment, I’d really appreciate it if we didn't turn this discussion into a personal attack.

Actually, why not? I'm all for it. That's basically how after-school programs work anyway—it's optional for those who want it (or whose parents want it for them).

We didn't really have that happening here. I used to help out a few friends from different schools, but my memory is pretty fuzzy on the details—except for one girl where it wasn't even clear what the issue was; she probably just needed to focus better.

Just because "someone" finds it helpful to have a mountain of extra worksheets every single day, or because "someone" struggles to finish their homework without help, doesn't mean that "everyone" should be forced to deal with endless supplemental work and supervised study sessions every afternoon. And we're talking about doing this for 8 years. 8 YEARS!!!
Exactly—after-school care is for those who "want to" or "have to," but it’s certainly not something everyone "wants" or "needs." Especially not for 8 LONG YEARS!!!
And look, I'm not trying to make this personal here. I’m not attacking you specifically, but rather your posts, which seem so intensely empathetic toward a small minority of students struggling in school that it feels like the majority is being forced to constantly adjust just so that tiny group can be accommodated at any cost—even if it means average or high-achieving kids having teachers breathing down their necks for 8 HOURS every day while they struggle through homework they could easily handle on their own.
If this actually becomes the standard, I honestly fear we’ll end up raising generations of completely dependent, incapable individuals.
It would probably be better if they just designed a specific full-day program for those children requiring individualized plans and accommodations—assuming it doesn't conflict with things like ADHD or similar diagnoses—but then let specialists like pedagogues, psychologists, therapists, or speech pathologists take over, working with them in small groups or one-on-one.
Instead of messing with an entire classroom for 8 years by forcing an eight-hour "workday" on them just because one kid lacks a desk, another doesn't grasp math, and another has dyslexia.🙄

Carl Bishop2 said:The whole all-day school model mostly benefits students who don't have anyone at home to help them with homework—or those who might not even have a quiet desk to work at. Kids of teachers usually have all that support waiting for them at home.

I suppose I'm wondering what the actual point of your post is here?
I mean, are we really suggesting that because there might be three kids in a class without a desk, or four students whose parents can't quite grasp the curriculum, we should force tens of thousands of other kids into this seemingly pointless eight-hour daily grind in schools?
Your sense of altruism and concern for those in need occasionally seems to go a bit overboard, almost stepping on the rights of the majority, who aren't exactly needy in any way, I guess.
Then again, maybe that's just how modern social sensitivity works—it goes to these extremes where everyone starts fussing over one specific kid, and meanwhile, the other twenty-five kids in the classroom just have to suffer through it. If one kid can't manage his homework alone, then by that logic, the other twenty-five who are perfectly capable should just sit there until 4:00 PM so he doesn't feel left out or slighted, I suppose.🙄

jadetinker85 said:Look, I don't know about Denmark, but Finland doesn't do the whole all-day school thing. They have two teachers per classroom. That means when it comes to prep work or grading tests, there's always someone to split the load. Plus, one teacher can actually walk around and help students who need extra clarity during a lesson. It’s the polar opposite of this amateur setup we have.

The American Psychological Association noted in recent comments that research shows no actual correlation between full-day schooling and academic success.

Honestly, you know what? I’ve reached a point where I’m just so sick of these comparisons that don't even make sense anymore; I barely even look at them or try to track which country uses which model.
And as for actual educational success... do you really think anyone working in that Department of Education ever gave a second thought to it? They don't seem to care about the kids or any kind of meaningful progress. For them, the only thing that matters is self-promotion and protecting their own interests, regardless of which political party is in power. They’re all cut from the same cloth, and I don't think anyone has actually been competent enough to hold a cabinet position yet. I mean, I can't even remember the last Secretary who had more than a few years of experience teaching in a classroom, and I'm talking real classroom teaching, not just lecturing at some university or research institute in a school setting.
Maybe if you count someone from decades ago?🤔
Most of them have absolutely no connection to the departments they run.
I feel like I could probably run the Department of Transportation myself, since I spend my life on subways, buses, driving, and occasionally taking trains or planes...🙂🥳

we really shouldn't be letting the conversation drift away from the actual core issue here.
setting aside the fact that that old slippery politician is shamelessly lying and throwing around fake percentages—not to mention how teachers are going to see their workloads skyrocket just to earn a measly extra twenty bucks a week (which, honestly, means they'll still be making barely anything more than the local sanitation workers)🎉🎉—the point is, we don't want (well, any sane person wouldn't want) kids spending their entire lives trapped inside a classroom!!!
to be perfectly blunt, I’m kind of over all this obsession with Denmark and Finland; sure, they might have a "perfect" educational model, but they also deal with massive youth suicide rates that sit right at the top of the global averages. I mean, why aren't we holding them up as some flawless gold standard if that's the case? (and if people claim those rates have nothing to do with the school system... yeah, right, as if that isn't directly linked to the lack of sunlight. maybe we should just lock the kids in school from dawn until dusk then, since that seems to be the trend)😬😳😛)

Bryan Wells11 said:This senile retiree is just rambling on. I guess it doesn't matter to him since it isn't his job and he isn't the one dealing with the fallout for his kids' future. It’s honestly disgraceful.
I caught him on some radio program, and he kept condescendingly repeating how "certain individuals clearly failed to grasp" things, or how he was going to "explain it to THOSE INDIVIDUALS who dared to oppose" him. Does he—just like any self-important President—actually think there's some internal group of saboteurs working against this supposedly "benevolent" party that's trying to force through these "life-saving" reforms that would basically lock teachers and kids away in stables? These "certain individuals" he's talking about are actually thousands of teachers, professors, and parents who are absolutely disgusted by the massive bureaucratic nonsense the Republican party is trying to shove down our throats overnight.

but it's funny how those slimy characters always use every interview to drone on about how wages will rise or how nobody will lose their jobs, blah blah blah, just to distract everyone from what matters and shift the public's anger toward protesters for the umpteenth time:
man, look, we aren't even talking about our crappy, miserable, bottom-of-the-barrel wages here. This is about the fact that it's just not normal to keep kids stuck inside an institution for hours every single day, and to do it for gooooood years on end. It's about the fact that kids NEED to have a life outside of school. Anyone with even a shred of pedagogical understanding knows that. But he doesn't know the first thing about education; he's more of an expert on poultry pathology and cattle gynecology.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.

It’s just the same old story, I suppose.