Larry Walker24 said:I know this girl who graduated with a perfect 4.0 in theoretical math and she’s teaching at a local high school now; she’s bored out of her mind because the problems she has to give them are just "laughable and way too easy" for her.
And I’ve heard stories about how some professors in the math education department basically treat students like garbage, failing people left and right just because they feel like it. Honestly, the faculty in the professional training courses aren't any more chill or reasonable either.
Well, I guess we're moving into the realm of nursery tales now, aren't we?🙄 If you look at it from that perspective, there probably isn't a single teacher out there who doesn't find their own subject matter to be "laughable and incredibly easy" at some point. I mean, you have to actually know how to function in a classroom, and I doubt any teacher finds it to be a true mental marathon to teach a kid how to count to ten or write a capital letter I. Is it really "laughable and easy" for you to explain that H stands for hydrogen and O stands for oxygen, or whatever else comes up in class? 🥱 The people who are strictly looking for constant challenges, more complexity, and the chance to constantly discover new horizons... they usually don't end up working in the American public school system.
Yeah, you’re definitely talking nonsense here. Just because some ITevac thinks they're basically a god in their line of work doesn't mean they're some sort of enlightened being in a foreign country, especially if they can't even recognize a product label at the grocery store or if they have to rely on Google Translate just to understand a medical diagnosis—all that hard-earned money from those massive salaries you keep mentioning doesn't seem to buy much common sense in those moments. In those specific situations, I guess they're pretty much on the same level as a local old lady who barely finished grade school, and honestly, no amount of shredding C# code or raking in huge paychecks is going to change that reality. But hey, feel free to keep trying to prove your little theories if it makes you feel better, though I don't see how it actually changes anything.🤷
Larry Walker24 said:Theoretical math is handled over at a heavy-duty research university like Johns Hopkins, and once you survive that, everything else feels like a breeze compared to what he's dealing with.
I suppose one might wonder, though, whether just because someone finds a particular subject incredibly easy, they actually possess the capacity to break those complex concepts down and pass them on to students in a way that's actually coherent or effective?
If you master C# or Go—or anything else from that specific programming family—you won't even need to worry about the local language to land a high-paying gig over there.😁
I suppose if programming is the only career that actually matters in this world, then sure—why wouldn't a programmer working abroad need to know C# or Go on a daily basis? I guess we should just assume that plumbers, waiters, retail clerks, hairstylists, nurses, doctors, teachers, journalists, and lawyers also absolutely require mastery of C# or Go to do their jobs... just keep that list going. It’s funny how everyone suddenly needs to be a coder just to function. I mean, a foreign language? Good grief. 🙂
You're talking nonsense, and I think you realize that.☕
Honestly, any language besides English would be fine at this point. I mean, English is basically a given these days; most kids around here end up being more fluent in English than their own native tongue anyway. But look... I suppose you should actually learn another language properly, just because it makes sense. You know, for the sake of actual knowledge, for LIFE 😬, not just to chase some damn grade on a report card.
So, I guess all sorts of combinations are possible here, which is honestly pretty great.👍 It would be just ideal if students and their parents actually realized how vital foreign languages are across every single field, and just for life in general, you know? It would be nice to see fewer people spending eight years grinding away at a language only to end up just faking their grades—like they've somehow outsmarted the system by picking the exact same beginner language everyone else is taking.🤦🤦 They haven't outsmarted anyone; they're really just making fools of themselves. I mean, imagine the absolute chaos if you could just choose to focus on math from the very beginning of high school. You wouldn't even make it past basic fractions before graduation.🙂 I truly can't wrap my head around that kind of backward way of thinking. I really can't.🤷
Susan James said:The debate about choosing a second language in high school always pops up. Let me clarify: Every high school requires two foreign languages. Period. The only exceptions are the specialized tracks, like the ones focused heavily on math (with 6 or 7 hours a week in the final two years) or the advanced computer science and math programs. Only Conor McGregor and Others follow those specific tracks; everyone else follows the standard curriculum with two languages. I think Toledo might only require one language because they offer intensive chemistry and biology tracks, plus some other subjects you won't find at other schools, though I'd have to double-check.
English is almost always the first foreign language (honestly, I’d love for someone to point out a high school where any other language is the primary one, since that's what carries the most credit hours). Even kids who studied English as their second language in middle school end up picking it as their first choice in high school (maybe there are a couple of outliers like Lincoln High or Westside that offer French or German lectures).
The second language depends entirely on what the school offers, and whether it’s introductory or advanced level really just comes down to what students select during enrollment—basically, which type of student applies and gets accepted. As far as I know, you still can't force someone to sign up for an advanced language course, even if they have proficiency listed on their transcript.
@frupy, is a school allowed to form an advanced language class if only 8 or 17 candidates meet the requirements, while distributing the rest of the students into other classes?
At a typical large American high school, besides English, the main focus might be German or French, and they often run bilingual programs where instruction happens in English, German, or French during specific grades. In another school, it might be German or French too, with bilingual tracks for those two; I’m not entirely certain, though, but I suspect English isn't necessarily the first choice for everyone there. That used to be the case, at least, but I don't know if English has since pushed its way to the front.
As for your other question: yeah, that's doable. They can just split the group into beginner and advanced tracks, where at the exact same period, one group handles the basics while the other moves on to the advanced stuff. It seems pretty straightforward and actually quite efficient.👍
I’m not trying to single anyone out here, because frankly, I don't know you all personally, nor is it really my business what you choose to do regarding how you teach your kids a second language. I suppose I'm just offering my own perspective, which is really just based on having spent quite a few years observing how these things tend to play out. I’m mostly thinking about the average student attending an American prep school, rather than children with learning disabilities or special needs, for whom even a single foreign language might feel like a bit much to juggle. In my view, being proficient in at least two foreign languages should probably be considered the bare minimum for anyone aiming for a high level of education, especially since most people head off to some kind of college or university after they finish high school anyway.
Despite all those advantages people list, I suppose for most, the biggest motivator is still just avoiding being graded on foreign languages in school. but whatever. Like I said before—it’s not that I have anything against them, really. It just seems incredibly silly to me to have an eight-year-old paying for German classes as part of their school curriculum, only to then have to support them or, even worse, push them to start learning it all over again from scratch once they hit high school. Because clearly, actual knowledge and meaningful progress don't matter at all; it’s much more important to just chase a perfect GPA, right?😵😵😵 If that isn't just plain foolish, then I honestly don't know what is.
Susan James said:Why do you think everyone is so fixated on grades? It's not because I'm one of those people, but I truly believe that a parent who genuinely cares about their child's learning will choose a specialized language academy over just picking an elective at a local public school. From schools lowering standards just to prevent kids from dropping out (which people have been openly discussing here), to the issues with afternoon shifts, or how everything was exclusively online during the pandemic (which was questionable at best)... plus, if we already know the vibe of a classroom—like if certain students' behavior slows down the whole lesson—it makes more sense to look for a different group or a different school elsewhere if possible, even if it means paying extra... kind of like how we pay for private healthcare services. 🤷 (The idea that a school should provide everything is nice in theory, but it's just hard to pull off in reality)
If that weren't the case, why would private tutoring and language courses even exist? And then there's this bizarre situation: a kid who actually knows and loves a language, and wants to study it in High School, can't take advanced classes if it's not officially on their transcript—they're forced into beginner levels instead. Meanwhile, the kids who *do* have it on their transcripts are expected to jump straight into advanced levels regardless of their actual skill level when they get to High School.
And if a certain generation of kids enters with just enough points to scrape by, but didn't study the language in Middle School, preventing an advanced class from forming, the solution seems to be shoving them into a different language class 😕 just so they don't sit there bored in class, or letting them waste a whole year staring at the clock because they got stuck in a generation that had to start from scratch.
Yeah, everyone is fixated on grades; you don't even need to try to convince me otherwise since I've spent far too long working within the American education system.☕ Sure, they could learn a language outside of school, why not? (though, I guess, that's often motivated by trying to escape the grading system too—why not just use that free seventh period at your own school instead of paying to go somewhere else late at night?) 🤔) But fine, I support it, because any bit of foreign language knowledge is a great bonus in life. 😍 And by the way, schools actually do offer placement exams for anyone who wants to take advanced tracks but doesn't have the language on their previous record, but those students are so rare that it’s almost like nobody even knows those tests exist. 😉 Because, well, I guess it's all just about "coasting to an A." 😵
stormymarlin22 said:Same thing happened with my kid in elementary school. I heard about it ahead of time, so I just told them not to even bother signing up for the class. It’s not surprising that kids pick beginner German in high school when they already know they learned basically nothing in middle school. From what I can tell—and I only know a few examples—most US high schools won't let advanced students take the beginner track if there's another option available. If a school offers two electives but one is blocked off, it doesn't really feel like much of an elective choice, I guess.
Look, is it really that difficult to grasp that a second language in high school isn't actually an elective?🙂 Maybe try understanding the distinction between mandatory, elective, and optional courses... before you start bashing schools that aren't actually giving these poor kids a "choice" to begin with? 🙄
I’m honestly not sure if there’s an official federal registry or some kind of database listing schools where the primary language isn't English. But those institutions definitely exist, and I really hope we see more of them popping up in the future. It’s a bit unfortunate that we seem to be starting from such different premises here. It feels like everyone else (both in this thread and in the real world, I suppose) is hyper-focused on nothing but GPA and taking the path of least resistance, whereas what I’m actually talking about is the mastery of two distinct languages. In my opinion, being truly bilingual is infinitely more vital for the average person navigating today's world than being able to solve linear equations, understanding limits, redox reactions, or vectors—not to mention memorizing the dates of every major battle in history, recognizing Bach fugues, or knowing how to perform a fantastic leap from a standstill. To be honest, I couldn't care less about a grade on a transcript. I'm talking about actual knowledge. But then again, I am fully aware of the era we're living in, so I realize that this whole perspective of mine probably isn't anything groundbreaking to you all.
I suppose kids might want to gamify their schoolwork, but they’re just children, after all, so I guess they tend to care more about the grade on the paper than actually absorbing the material. though parents probably ought to be a bit more discerning about that approach.☕
thankfully, various educational seminars have been highlighting this specific issue where students struggle to truly grasp a second language even after five years of study, and I'm hopeful that some sort of standard will be implemented soon to address it.🎉
Of course, you'll find elementary schools offering French as an elective, just like they do with German or Spanish. But when we're talking about high school foreign language tracks, there's this tendency where a bunch of students—mostly just because they want an easy A on their transcript🤦🤦🤦—try to sign up for a language they've already been studying for five years straight.🙂 Thankfully, more and more school districts aren't allowing that anymore, though I suppose it really ought to be officially banned in the district regulations once and for all.☕
Adam Diaz67 said:Look, it's an elective language course. If the only options were beginner German or beginner French, how hard is it to just ask if they'd rather take the easy French route—where they'll be bored but guaranteed an A—or go with German? It's not a waste of time; it’s an easy way to boost your GPA. That's how they handled it at my high school; they didn't have enough students for a full beginner German class, so they just asked the few kids who were interested and gave them the choice of an extra elective or an info credit instead. If it's labeled as an elective, we should let the kids actually have a choice.
Which specific school are you even referring to? A lot of American high schools require two mandatory foreign languages. (And thanks a lot for that, because without foreign languages, we're all just totally unremarkable peasants, right?) So, it isn't really an elective. And, I mean, schools are slowly starting to realize this, so if you already studied a second language in middle school, maybe you should stick with it, rather than just picking something easy at the start just to secure a guaranteed A. That's probably one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard.
rowdypanther12 said:Okay, let me give you an example using my daughter. Are you saying she isn't "prep school material" just because she couldn't maintain an A in German without extra help? Keep in mind, neither my husband nor I know a single word of German, so we can't help her at all. She was one of the few kids in her class actually taking the language, with absolutely no support at home. So, how is it that she’s suddenly able to pull an A without any tutoring now? She's totally caught up, and she's doing it all solely through her schoolwork.
I guess it might be that this professor is actually being pretty lenient right now—you know, easygoing, not asking for much, and handing out high grades like candy—but maybe you just can't really tell if that's the case because you haven't quite wrapped your head around the subject matter yet.🤷 I’m not saying that’s definitely how it is, but then again, you were the one pointing out that there's a bit of everything going on, so I suppose it isn't all just black and white. I suppose it’s worth noting that having tutoring sessions isn't necessarily a sign that the professor is failing at their job, nor does landing an A without any extra help automatically mean the instructor is a genius or that the student has somehow achieved total mastery over the material. It’s probably more complicated than that, I guess.
Susan James said:But honestly, sometimes it’s actually faster to take a train to another city than it is to ride the Metro around New York City.
I suppose that’s true, though... it isn't exactly a common or realistic scenario where kids from New York City would enroll in a school out in Ivanic. The opposite is obviously the case, of course, since the options in the city are so much more extensive. But then again, you have those kids from Ivanic a) who don't really make a fuss about the commute, I guess, because they realize that if they want to attend a school that doesn't exist in Ivanic, they just have to deal with it. b) or they just find a dorm in NYC if the travel starts feeling like too much of a hassle.
Carl Bishop2 said:My point was actually about work—since you mentioned you didn't quite get why someone would choose a lower-paying job just because it's closer to home. It takes me about 40 minutes to drive to Ivanic right now, assuming traffic isn't a nightmare. But to actually work there, I'd need to buy a car, and for that to make sense, the job would have to be incredibly, seriously good and highly paid. Commuting just wears me down—and I don't mean it's an inconvenience of time, I mean it affects my actual quality of life. That's the kind of comfort I want to afford myself if I can. If not, well, that's just how it goes.
But my point was really more about commuting within a single city all along, so that specific town of Ivanic doesn't really change the context much. I once mentioned knowing a woman from the Upper East Side who felt her commute was way too far—even though she had her own car!—and she ended up quitting solely because of that distance. I know her well enough to know that was her only reason, and honestly, I told her straight up that it seemed a bit extreme to me.
Susan James said:I feel like location only really comes into play when families are choosing between high schools. Maybe if a parent is pushing for an academic track but the kid is leaning toward vocational school, they’ll use the commute as a subtle way to nudge them toward the academic option. 😬It's all about convenience in those specific scenarios.
Yeah, I suppose that’s how it goes. It seems like they always try to spin it that way, you know? They’ll give you this whole elaborate explanation about how much better it is to attend a local high school just because you get to sleep in a little longer. But then, if you decide to go to one of those specialized vocational schools that’s practically halfway across the country, suddenly the narrative shifts. They make it sound like you're destined to wake up before the sun even comes up, only to spend hours commuting on some stinky, overcrowded city bus. I guess it’s all part of the same old logic, really.🙂
Anthony Ward6 said:I suppose location is the biggest priority for kids and parents who don't really care about the actual curriculum, though I doubt you'll often see a parent forcing a kid into a local cosmetology program just because it's close by instead of choosing a medical academy on the other side of town.