Posts by urbantinker8

Paul Scott7 said:Sure, I agree that homework is ultimately the child's responsibility. But as a parent of a first grader, it’s my job to look over their shoulder—at least during this initial stage—and provide some basic guidance on whether they're actually on the right track. Eventually, you have to step back and let them manage their own schoolwork.
I honestly have no idea where you all got the impression from my posts that I’m suggesting parents should constantly hover over their kids.
And frankly, the whole system seems flawed. It makes zero sense to leave textbooks at school when the kid is expected to study from them. If the books stay at the classroom, what exactly are they supposed to be studying?

I find the whole policy of leaving books at school a bit ridiculous myself.🤷
It's not even really because the kid won't be able to "study" at home—because, let's be real, there isn't much heavy lifting to do in first grade 😁, rather it's because parents end up having absolutely no clue what's actually happening in the classroom (and I know for a lot of people, that's probably preferred 😛).

Man, this whole black-and-white debate on these forums is just so exhausting...🙂

So, here’s my take on the homework situation...

I mean, I don't think it would be remotely normal if a parent sat down and did every single assignment with their kid, or—even worse—just did the work for them. It doesn't really matter if we're talking about a first grader or a high schooler.

At the same time, though, I guess it also isn't exactly normal to have absolutely no clue what your child is actually working on or learning during the school day.

It’s all about finding that middle ground, people. Just a little balance.☕

Whether a kid is in an after-school program or not, there's nothing wrong with checking over a first grader's homework, asking if they actually understood the material, maybe having a quick chat about it if things seem fuzzy, or stepping in a bit if you think it might give them some confidence or help them build better study habits.
As time goes on, I suppose you should gradually step back, reducing how much you help with the actual writing and checking, until the kid is fully capable of handling it all on their own.

We shouldn't turn every little assignment into some massive academic crisis.😉

And honestly, it makes me a little sad to hear that the main reason someone uses after-school care is just so their kid can get their homework finished while at the center.😢
After-school programs exist so a seven-year-old isn't just left to fend for themselves for half the day while their parents are at work.

edit: sorry, nosorog, I think we were typing at the exact same time, so could you please move these posts over to that other thread?

That sounds like a solid plan.👍

I mean, it’s not really something I need to worry about right this second, but I suppose I’ll end up asking some friends how things actually work at their kids' schools.
It probably varies quite a bit from one school district to another, too.

For us, the main reason we'd consider it is just that every other week I’d find myself sitting home alone until somewhere around 4:30 or 5:00 PM, and I guess that feels like a bit much for a first grader to handle on their own...😢
On those alternating weeks, though, I could easily swing by and pick them up before or after dinner, so they could just tackle their homework at home.

Just various thoughts.
But I don't know, it doesn't seem entirely logical to me. How on earth are you supposed to stretch out a structured "curriculum" until 3:00 PM every day?🙂
From what I've gathered, nobody really found it exhausting: just maybe three or four hours of classes, then a break for lunch, followed by a bit more work—you know, homework and stuff—and then some lighter, more engaging activities in the afternoon.

It seems somewhat unlikely that they managed to rearrange everything like that, wouldn't you say?🤷

But hold on a second...
Back when I was working in an elementary school—this was probably over a decade ago, if I recall correctly—it used to function just like this: they’d have classes running until about noon, then lunch would be served, followed by homework sessions and various other after-school activities.

And honestly, I think it would be perfectly fine if parents had the option to pick up their kids a little early (or right after lunch) depending on what works for them.🤷

I actually have a few friends who work in after-school programs, so I suppose I'll reach out and see if something like that is even feasible, though I can't quite believe I never thought of it myself before now.😵

rowdypanther12 said:If I remember correctly, they won't be home by midnight, but they should be back around 2 or 3.

It’s just kind of a hassle, I guess.
If school lets out for both him and me around 11:30 or maybe even a bit earlier, I can't really just swing by and grab him on my way, since I'd have to head straight home first, and then I'm just stuck waiting around for two or three, maybe even four hours before I can actually go pick him up.🙄

I was wondering if it’s actually possible to work something out with the school so that my kid can head home a little earlier from after-school care?🤔

It hasn't really become a pressing issue for us just yet, so I haven't bothered asking anyone...

The thing is, my work schedule is all over the place with different shifts, so when I'm on mornings, I can easily swing by and pick him up around 1:00 or 2:00, or he just walks home himself once school lets out around 11:30 and waits for me to get back.🤷

But looking ahead, it seems like we'll probably need to utilize the after-school program about every other week.🤷

hiddendriver34 said:Personally, I’d just look at this and say: Monday (since today is Tuesday, right?). 🤣

Exactly, the question itself is just too vague.
I'm not an educator, and I don't really teach elementary school students anymore, but if I were designing a test, I think I'd probably phrase it something like this:

The missing artistic term:

________ — today — tomorrow

Or something along those lines, anyway.
Then there wouldn't really be any dilemma about what you're supposed to write down.😁

Lawrence Torres56 said:Well, I'm not so sure about that. Look, I’m no expert parent, but I can see exactly where my kid is struggling long before any teacher even notices... and honestly, it’s pretty obvious to anyone watching if they actually bother to look.
Maybe I'm off base here, but I really feel like we, as parents, can spot a problem way before the school does, and by the time a teacher finally flags it, so much precious time has already slipped through our fingers. I mean, a week might not sound like much, but just try dealing with a week's worth of missed homework after your kid has been home sick with the flu, and you'll realize exactly what I'm talking about...

I know exactly what you mean.

You even mentioned yourself that parents tend to see where a child is falling behind long before the teacher does.

If they actually care to look..😁

The types of people who act like starting school is just a matter of "well, they're someone else's responsibility now" and claim that their "job as a parent was finished long ago"🙄, they certainly aren't going to go out of their way to consistently monitor how their child is doing alongside the teacher.
They won't.
Instead, they'll just show up at the school at the very end of the semester to start making a scene about it.☕

Justin Allen81 said:From what I understand, parents are required to show up for parent-teacher conferences, plus at least twice per semester for progress updates. Our teacher made it clear right out of the gate—this isn't optional. If you don't show up to check on your kid, they'll call Child Protective Services to do a wellness check. And honestly, from what I can see, parents actually show up.

So, if you’ve managed to attend, say, two conferences per semester and at least two check-ins (whether you want to or not), how on earth can you claim you haven't had concrete feedback for nine months?

Nah.
I suppose it’s just one of those things where, legally speaking, a parent is pretty much required to show up. It feels like one of those mandatory obligations you just can't really wiggle out of, I guess, depending on the specific situation or whatever school board meeting is being called. There isn't much room for debate there, really. I suppose I should probably mention that I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit lately, though I can't say for certain if it actually matters in the grand scheme of things. It feels like one of those situations where you look at something once and think you understand the rhythm of it, only to realize later that you might have missed a subtle beat or two, which makes me wonder if I should perhaps take a second look just to be safe. Maybe it's just my way of overthinking, I guess, but there's a certain quiet necessity in double-checking things when the first glance doesn't feel entirely complete. Halfway through the semester. That’s where we are. Period.
It doesn't really matter whether they show up for the briefings or the formal meetings, I suppose.
I guess, if you ask me, that doesn't really qualify as systematic monitoring, which means you aren't actually getting any kind of continuous feedback loop out of it, either.
And then, I guess, after a parent finally makes the effort to show up at the school four times during the ninth month just to get some clarity, they end up staring at a mountain of descriptive feedback and qualitative comments, only to realize they can’t actually see the forest for the trees.

Lawrence Torres56 said:Honestly, I feel like you're totally mixing up two different things here... if you're actually "on top of" what your kid is doing as a parent, then you don't even need formal feedback, right? But if you aren't, then showing up at the school every single week isn't going to magically fix anything either... unless you're just trying to suck up to the teachers under the guise of being some "perfect parent" when, in reality, you couldn't care less about what's actually happening.

Anyway, from what I can tell—at least looking at my daughter's class—the only parents who seem to be hovering every week are the ones whose kids are actually struggling, mostly because they're just looking for excuses to justify the behavior. There isn't really this big push to actually work on solving the underlying issues...

@Justin Allen81, they told us that we're required to have a meeting once a year, which is just... yeah, I honestly have no clue what the point of that is. Like, what's the goal? In case a kid is falling behind, does the school counselor just swoop in and take over their education, or do they just lecture the parents with some threat so they can make a quick buck while everyone continues to just baby the kid?

I mean, I’m not quite sure how anyone could claim those two things aren't connected, if that makes sense... I guess it feels like we're being told they're completely separate entities, which just seems a bit off to me, honestly.
I mean, I guess you could argue that you don't strictly need feedback from a teacher, but honestly, wouldn't it be kind of strange if you didn't? It’s just one of those things where having an outside perspective—especially someone who actually knows what they're talking about—really helps you figure out if you're actually getting anywhere or just spinning your wheels in the sand. Maybe it's not essential for every single little thing, but most of the time, I think having that guidance makes a world of difference.🤔
It seems like everyone has such a wildly different take on what "helping" a kid with their schoolwork actually looks like—it’s kind of interesting, I guess. You have one parent who is practically sitting shoulder-to-shoulder with their child through every single assignment, maybe even stepping in to finish things for them just to get it done, while then you have someone else who refuses to touch a textbook because they firmly believe that if the kid doesn't struggle through it alone, they aren't actually learning anything at all. Both sides seem to have their own logic, I suppose.

In both scenarios, I suppose you’re really going to need some honest feedback from your teacher.🤷

wanderingbadger44 said:Everything said here is spot on.

To be honest, I don't really understand why there's such intense pushback against moving away from traditional grading.

If you look at how things have been handled over the last couple of years since we stopped doing final cumulative grades, it's actually made our workload lighter. We already have to provide descriptive progress tracking for every student regardless.

The reality is that kids end up studying less, though I suppose that's not everyone's concern, and they mostly just play dumb or bury their heads in the sand, yet somehow everyone manages to pass in the end.

Well, I guess you pretty much answered your own question there:

wanderingbadger44 said:Everything said here is spot on.

To be honest, I don't really understand why there's such intense pushback against moving away from traditional grading.

If you look at how things have been handled over the last couple of years since we stopped doing final cumulative grades, it's actually made our workload lighter. We already have to provide descriptive progress tracking for every student regardless.

The reality is that kids end up studying less, though I suppose that's not everyone's concern, and they mostly just play dumb or bury their heads in the sand, yet somehow everyone manages to pass in the end.

🙂

I suppose I should probably add one more thing to this whole mess: parents basically go through about nine months without receiving any actual, concrete feedback at all, and then, once you hit that fifth month, everything just completely falls apart and turns into a total disaster.

Lawrence Torres56 said:Yeah, but you're totally overlooking the biggest piece of the puzzle here: over there, the entire school system and the curriculum are actually built to support that kind of approach, unlike our setup which is just completely out of sync... I'm gonna drift a little off-topic here, so my bad to the mods, but I just need to clarify this point...
The way things work here... the system basically screws over any student finishing vocational school if they actually want to keep specializing in their field later on, because there’s just no path forward....
Take this, for example... kids who finish vocational medical programs have to go through another five years of training... they're doing school in the morning and clinicals in the afternoon, or vice versa... meanwhile, the general high schoolers just do their five or six years of standard classes and call it a day. When it comes time to apply for medical school, those vocational kids don't stand a chance because the specialized subjects they spent years studying aren't even factored into the admissions points, since they only had core general classes for the first two years....
So, what's the end result of this mess? We end up losing the kids who were actually well-prepared for their specific trades, while our system wastes everyone's time by forcing general high schoolers to sit through the exact same stuff those vocational kids already mastered years ago... what a joke, right?

I don't know, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that.🙂
I mean, we could have four-year vocational students sitting for the SATs, so theoretically, they have the exact same shot at getting into their preferred college as any student coming out of a standard high school.
I say "theoretically," though, because the schedule in vocational schools is definitely more compressed; it’s not quite the same experience when you're only sitting through math twice a week instead of four times, and besides, kids change their minds constantly—so that kid who specialized in business might suddenly decide they want to study medicine, and then they find themselves lacking the foundational knowledge in several areas simply because they never even took those classes...

But then again, it isn't particularly strange or unusual to see someone from a medical vocational track enroll in med school, or an economics student going into business. It happens all the time, really.

Andrew Doyle said:Concentration? It’s just one of those days where they lose their focus, mix up the basic steps, and fail to think through what they're doing. They end up overcomplicating things even when they clearly grasp the concept—they just stumble over the trivialities. Honestly, I deal with this at my own house. I've already reached an agreement with his teacher to have him meet with the school counselor periodically to work specifically on his focus. I'm confident we'll get this sorted out eventually. 🙂

I highly doubt it. Many much more advanced nations than ours—nations whose students consistently outperform ours on standardized testing—don't even use traditional grading systems in the lower elementary grades.

That’s kind of why I decided to write today on this forum.
I guess we are still lightyears away from those "super advanced countries"—in just about every sense, but especially when you consider the general mindset.😉

Susan James said:

I remember one evening back when I was living in Seattle, just sitting on my porch as the sun started to dip behind the mountains. There’s something about that transition from dusk to total darkness that always feels like a reset button for me. It’s quiet, it’s still, and it gives you a second to actually breathe after a long day of running around. Does anyone else find that specific time of night particularly peaceful, or am I just a sucker for a good sunset? kaže:
It all sounds wonderful and beautiful in theory, but if you don’t have a first grader yet, I think you might hit a bit of a reality check once they actually start school. You quickly realize how much is expected of you as a parent just to keep up with everything your child needs for their classes and daily school life. It can be quite a whirlwind!
I think it all really comes down to what you and your child actually expect from school. It makes me wonder—what are your expectations when it comes to grades? Do you even have any specific goals in mind? For instance, would you be happy with just a passing average if it meant you didn't have to spend every evening at the kitchen table helping them tackle homework? Personally, I’m not obsessed with straight A's. They aren't a priority for me, and honestly, given my child's personality, I know exactly what kind of challenges we’re going to face once they start their school years. That being said, I'm definitely not planning on sitting on the sidelines. If things get tough, I’ll be right there working alongside them to help them grasp the material. My goal isn't just to chase high marks; I just want to make sure they actually understand what they're learning so they feel confident and capable.

I’m honestly not stressing about my grades this time around. I've realized that focusing on the actual learning is way more important than just chasing a specific number on a transcript.
Honestly, I don't really feel the need to bring it up. Whether I'm grabbing coffee with friends, hanging out on the forums, or just sitting at my desk at work, I don't feel any pressure to brag about it. It’s just not something I feel the need to broadcast.
I really want to get to a place where I’m genuinely proud of what she achieves on her own terms, rather than just measuring her success against my own expectations. To be honest, I think part of my struggle is that I don't even have a clear vision of what I actually want for her myself. It's a bit of a learning process for me!
At the end of the day, my biggest priority is just seeing her healthy, happy, and genuinely content. I want her to actually look forward to heading off to school every morning. It doesn't have to be this huge, over-the-top excitement, but I definitely don't want her waking up with that knot in her stomach because she's dreading a big exam, a certain teacher, or some drama with her classmates.
I really believe people need a genuine look at what they actually know versus where they’re still struggling. It should be about fair, honest feedback—something like, "You’ve totally mastered this concept, but you still need to practice this specific skill or dive deeper into this topic." We need to move away from those vague, unhelpful comments like "you just need to try harder for an A" or giving someone a passing grade just to boost their morale or acknowledge their effort. Real progress comes from knowing exactly where you stand.
Honestly, I feel like this falls more on the teachers than the parents. Of course we notice things about our kids—that’s just part of being a parent. We see if they're reading faster, if their handwriting is getting a bit messy, or if they're still relying on their fingers for basic addition. Those are everyday observations you make at home regardless of school. But when it comes to actually mastering the curriculum and keeping up with what’s being taught in the classroom? In my book, that responsibility lies squarely with the teacher.

I’ve been thinking about how much I love those quiet moments right as the sun dips below the horizon. There's something so peaceful about that transition from a busy day to a calm evening. It always reminds me of those summer nights growing up in the suburbs, just sitting on the porch watching the fireflies start to come out. It’s such a great time to just decompress and reset for tomorrow. kaže:
I feel like kids today are missing out on those hands-on experiences that used to be such a staple when we were heading off to school. I remember back in my day, we weren't just staring at screens; we actually got to engage with the world in ways that felt much more tangible. It’s a bit of a bummer to see that practical, real-world connection fading away.

You know, when kids start school, they hit this massive hurdle where you realize just how much every single child differs from the next. Whether it’s social skills, emotional maturity, or how they handle academics, those individual gaps are huge. It’s one of those things that becomes incredibly obvious once they step into a classroom for the first time.
And honestly, what some people seem to miss is that this responsibility falls squarely on the parents, not the kids. Of course, it feels a bit naive to expect a parent to suddenly step up and take charge overnight if they haven't been doing so already—unless there’s a direct intervention. Ideally, you'd want the school to work alongside both the parent and the child to bridge that gap. And if things look like actual neglect? That's when Child Protective Services needs to get involved to ensure everyone stays safe.
It really comes down to all that extra stuff parents have to tackle alongside schoolwork—assuming they even have the energy or the headspace left at the end of the day!
I think we might be looking at this a little differently. Based on what my kids are already picking up at home, I don't really think Summer, myself, or the other moms who aren't interested in doing schoolwork with our kids fall into that specific category. It seems pretty clear to us—and the kids definitely seem to get it too—that once they head back to school, they’re going to be hit with all those specific concepts you mentioned.

Going back to the main point here... I honestly don't see the point in grading so much of the first-grade curriculum (and really, most of the lower elementary grades, too).
A kid either knows how to read or they don't.
They can do addition or subtraction, or they can't.
They know the days of the week, or they don't.
They know the parts of the day, or they don't.
They know their multiplication tables, or they don't.
Don't give me that talk about needing to grade everything on an A through F scale.
Sure, maybe they hadn't mastered it by February, but they got there by May—and once they've learned it, they know it for life.
What good does a letter grade actually do them? 😕

Of course, we should encourage them to do better or work faster. We definitely need to point out mistakes, help them understand why they’re making them, and see how frequent they are—like, are they rushing, are they just moving too slowly, or are they struggling to spot errors? I'm certain that any assignment can be improved if we provide clear guidance on what needs work, the best way to tackle it, and who might be able to step in and help.
But we shouldn't be turning the classroom into a competition over who gets an A versus a B, or trying to motivate kids using "lower" grades as a threat.
Kids who are just two points shy of an A might be missing that mark for totally different reasons. In one standardized test or a quick mid-term, all that effort and hard work can just vanish. That matters, especially for those little ones just starting out.
It feels to me like we spend way too much energy arguing over grades and not nearly enough focusing on a child's strengths, their weaknesses, and what they still need to learn. What is the actual purpose of all this studying if we aren't looking at the bigger picture of why we need this knowledge?
To be fair, there are plenty of teachers out there who provide amazing feedback alongside a grade, but there are just as many who simply hand out a letter and call it a day.
In those cases, progress is measured strictly by numbers.

You do realize you're kind of in the minority here, right?

And as for this whole idea of descriptive grading—if my memory serves me correctly, back in those golden days of the 80s, people didn't exactly fail out of school because of a lack of written commentary.
I mean, we probably don't need to add more bureaucracy to the mix, especially when we already have maybe three kids in the entire country failing a grade every year.🤦

You could always provide detailed, descriptive feedback alongside a standard numerical grade, couldn't you? It seems like a reasonable compromise.

But if we went ahead and scrapped numerical grading entirely, both here and in the current system, I imagine things would just descend into total chaos.

nimblelynx7 said:Well, since you didn't include any emojis, I can only sincerely hope that this was just some sort of clumsy irony on your part. 👏

There’s no irony here. If I wanted irony, I’d hear it from my boss while he hands me my walking papers because I had the nerve to tell him I can't do everything solo—that clients need to actually cooperate with me too. You think you have a different perspective just because you work in the public school system? You're dead wrong.

First off, I’d scrap high schools entirely. Four years of wasted time with little to no payoff. In a setup like this, I don't think anyone should be enrolling in prep schools, let alone the self-proclaimed "elite" or those desperate to be part of it.
I mean, besides the fact that I actually work in the school system, I also happen to have two kids of my own, and I don't really feel like once they hit seven years old, my part of the "job" is finished—like I can just sort of hand them over to a teacher and expect them to handle all the upbringing and schooling entirely on their own.🙂

nimblelynx7 said:You just insulted everyone in trade schools and anyone without a degree. What, are universities and prep schools only for the elite now? Nobody smart finishes college just because they're smart; they do it because they're persistent. Why are these A's being forced? Because schools use grades for admissions, not actual knowledge. This works for the teachers too, because otherwise, more than half of them would be fired for incompetence.

Because school is for the students; parents finished their job a long time ago.

No, it’s that solar eclipse today. It's all the eclipse's fault.

Check this thread: PISA test results and the Shanghai leaf.
Every two years we slide further down the rankings. At this rate, we’ll be crawling under the feet of the Chinese soon. Our universities drop on the list every single year—though that's only because their metrics are garbage, not because our quality has dipped.

All this spitting on incompetent Americans. They don't even have 400,000 unemployed. It won't matter anyway, because they're just ignorant and uneducated, unlike us Americans.

Well, since you didn't include any emojis, I can only sincerely hope that this was just some sort of clumsy irony on your part. 👏

feralgardener33 said:I just happen to agree with everything Summer wrote, so I quoted your reply to her because that’s what I wanted to comment on.
Ultimately, it feels like everything hinges on the teacher. Some are great, some aren't (and since I don't really know what kind of teacher you are, it's hard to say), so depending on that, how much help I need to step in will vary. Of course, the kid plays a role too.
The kind of support Tanita mentioned is fine by me, but anything beyond that is overkill. That's all I was trying to get across.

So, it isn't even remotely true that everything rests solely on the teacher.🙂

restlessskipper8, I think you’re spot on here! 🙏

Lawrence Torres56 said:The thing is, at least in my opinion, even a kid who's performing below average wouldn't have such a hard time if someone just took a little extra time to reach them... but when you're looking at a classroom setting where the teacher spends half the period just trying to settle down the troublemakers, isn't it obvious they don't have the luxury of giving every single kid that individual attention? On top of that, you've got kids starting first grade who can barely read a sentence or recognize letters, making it nearly impossible for them to grasp what they've just read—which means they never even realize they actually *do* know the material...

And honestly, I highly doubt any parent of one of those more "energetic" kids would ever agree to having their child pulled out into a separate class filled with nothing but kids like that... plus, does the Department of Education even have the budget to take a fourth-grade class of 25 students and split it into ten different small groups of 10? Not a chance.

So, who the hell are you going to turn to?... because let's be real, nobody cares more about whether your kid is happy and feeling successful than you do...😉

Of course they wouldn't agree.
We’ll probably never see anything like that happen, because, well, heaven forbid we actually label a student in such a way! 😲
The parents would probably start a massive uproar, backed by the full support of every school counselor and psychologist in the district.

So, I guess we're just stuck wasting our time, energy, and sanity trying to integrate people who simply aren't going to integrate, no matter what we do.☕

Karen Richardson3 said:That’s just great, because I was literally just scrolling through Facebook the other day reading about how we failed to qualify for an international coding competition for the first time ever, and the mentor's take on it was basically, "Well, it took us twenty years to completely wreck the math programs in our schools, and hey, mission accomplished."

Yeah, we're probably going to screw up everything else that still matters, too.
Why?

It's all because of this constant pressure to just cave to whatever the kids—and, you know, the parents—want.
We're heading straight toward the American model.🙂
The curriculum gets watered down, the coursework becomes increasingly ridiculous, there's this push to cut the number of subjects, which leads to trimming class hours, and textbooks get worse and worse in this desperate attempt to be "modern," while grading standards just keep sliding...
Right now, we're drowning in students getting perfect marks, but tomorrow, we'll just have a bunch of people who don't know anything.

International competitions...?🤣
I mean, why would anyone even bother showing up to something like that anymore?😕

And I absolutely agree with tanita.

Karen Richardson3 said:You know, I’ve been wondering what the professors would say about this: how do American students actually stack up against the rest of the world in international competitions these days?

I mean, given how many brilliant, diamond-in-the-rough kids we have and just how intense our school curriculum is—which so many people seem to breeze through with top marks—I can't help but assume we're absolutely crushing it on the global stage, right?

Aside from math, computer science, and physics—where the results have been pretty solid—I can’t really recall us making much of an impact in other international competitions over the last twenty years or so.🤔

I suppose someone might have to correct me there, though.🙂😬