CheckEmoji Community · the emoji forum
🏠 Home 🆕 What's new ❓ Unanswered 🔥 Popular 📡 RSS Members 👥 0 online log in · register
Home › urbantinker8 › Posts

Posts by urbantinker8

774 posts shown.

Grading Freshmen in Students & Teens ·
Karen Richardson3 said:So, you're telling me that out of all the tools a parent has—from hiking through the woods to hitting up a science museum, from watching smart documentaries to browsing encyclopedias at the local library or checking out cool educational websites—none of that actually matters during the preschool years?

If that's the case, what exactly are parents teaching their kids these days? Is it just which seasonal sales are happening or what the newest iPhone model is?

I honestly don't get it.

Actually, I do get it, but it's probably too rude to say it out loud.

You hit the nail on the head.

A huge chunk of people I know have honestly never once taken their children to a museum, a theater, or even a local library.
But seriously—never.😢

People seem to make fun of libraries quite a bit, too; I constantly get these comments about who actually goes to borrow books anymore. First they use the word "😲borrow"😲 and then they act like "books"😲 are some kind of relic from the past.
Grading Freshmen in Students & Teens ·
feralgardener33 said:A hundred-page reading assignment for a first grader?! And parents are just expected to do the heavy lifting for them?!
Then you have people claiming kids today don't have it as hard as we did, arguing that they're "less burdened" because parts of the curriculum get cut every year (if that's the case, what on earth were we dealing with back then?)
Let me be clear: during my first four years of elementary school, I didn't do a single thing at home. Nothing. Zero. All my homework and studying happened strictly within the school walls since I was in an after-school program. Do you teachers actually grasp how little time a parent truly has with their child once school starts? If a kid is expected to spend every waking hour on academics, all other activities just fall by the wayside. It’s not right.
And what you just wrote honestly shocked me. Are you suggesting that only the "super intelligent" types—those with some supposedly advanced way of thinking—deserve straight A's? That they just got lucky at birth or happen to have highly educated parents, while everyone else is predestined to struggle with C's and B's regardless of how much effort or heart they put into their work? That's just awful.

Why so many exclamation points and question marks?🤷
I guess if you don't have kids in school yet, you should probably just wait until yours start and then you'll know firsthand what's just urban legend, what's just tall tales, and what the actual truth is.
There's probably no need to get this worked up over hearsay and second-hand stories.😉

Lawrence Torres56 said:Hold on, sorry, but you're totally jumping the gun here without any reason... when we talk about the reading assignment for first grade, "wait and see" by Stanislav Femenić isn't even that collection of poems everyone is arguing about, it’s actually just a picture book
http://www.amazon.com/wait-and-see/
that's only 36 pages total including all the illustrations...

and honestly, the kids who actually have this book (even though most teachers don't even assign it as required reading) know exactly what they need to check out and read....

Just to give you an idea, here's one of the little poems,

ladybug one

One night
ladybug one
was feeling so blue
someone had hidden
her spots from view.
She cried her eyes out
all alone
on a fragrant flower
No one else
could be found
as sad as she was in the world.
But then in the morning
the sun came along
She was so happy
because it put back
once again
those spots where they belong.

So, seriously, is it really such a massive ordeal to read fifteen little poems like that in a month?

Not at all, I suppose.
Karen Richardson3 said:To be totally honest, looking at the elementary kids I know right now, they aren't struggling like this; it feels like the only place where people are constantly complaining about how impossible the curriculum has become is on internet forums.

I agree.
I work in a school, about 90% of my friends work in schools, and plenty of kids in my own family go through the system... and nowhere except here on this forum (and in the media, to be honest) do I hear people complaining about how impossibly hard the curriculum is.🙂

I wonder why nobody talks about how ridiculously easy the questions on the SATs have become? And despite those questions being so simple, the passing threshold gets lowered to like 20-30% just so everyone can pass?
Is it our fault again, like we just didn't teach them well enough? 🙄
Adam Evans62 said:God, you parents love to twist words, don't you? 😵
Nobody hands a first grader a 100-page novel to read 🙄. Sure, you might give them a book of poems that’s 100 pages long, but even then, they either pick a few to read on their own or go through it with a parent or teacher during class if they actually need to finish the whole thing (which I haven't heard of anyone assigning, by the way)...
And yeah, a lot of material has been cut from the curriculum. Instead of whining about how "overwhelmed" kids are, maybe try teaching them some actual independence, logic, and how to connect ideas. Or better yet, teach them some basic manners and culture—because clearly, a lot of you are lacking that! It's all just noise about how much is being demanded of them, while the fact that most of these kids can't even say "Good morning" or "Goodbye" when walking into or out of school is totally ignored. ☕

Whatever. I knew I shouldn't have jumped into this argument, I just got pissed off. 😠

😁
I totally hear you!
Karen Richardson3 said:summer: honestly, I bet parents of kids in middle school feel the exact same way when they flip through those history textbooks—they just stare at them in disbelief, totally missing the fact that you basically have to boil an entire chapter down to five tiny bullet points just to write them in a notebook.

but let’s be real for a second about what’s actually happening here: everyone is convinced their kid is some kind of genius who absolutely deserves an A, when the reality is that every single classroom follows the same pattern—you’ve got a few superstars, a few kids who struggle, and then a whole bunch of average students.

so the real issue is that the complaining mostly comes from the parents whose kids are just sitting right in that average bracket. it feels like there's this massive push to force kids, who might have been perfectly happy heading toward a trade school or a specialized vocational program, straight into elite prep schools and four-year universities.

I mean, look at how things are going lately: the curriculum has never been more intense, you've got these exhausted parents staying up late helping their kids study, and then suddenly everyone is bragging about a record-breaking number of Honor Roll students.
basically, these high grades are being manufactured. if you have to sit there and coach a kid through every single step of their middle school work just to get them an A, then that kid isn't actually hitting those marks on their own, and frankly, they haven't earned that grade.

🙂
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
Susan James said:🎉 Me too, me too! 🎉

I know it means more paperwork and that it might be a bit more subjective, but I honestly think it's a great idea!

Anyway, that group sounds really promising to me, whether they are reaching out through the news or privately... I just really hope they don't mess up the selection process for those 300 members. I hope they are chosen based on clear criteria and that they are people who truly want to see change. The fact that they are coming straight to the teachers' lounges is just a massive plus.

Personally, though, I really can't stand the idea of descriptive grading in high schools.
especially when it comes to vocational schools.

Quincy:table>
manchild says:
my dear colleagues, just how many education reforms have we seen over the last 25 years? I’d say at least 25.

It seems like every single administration in Washington had its own little overhaul that lasted exactly as long as they were in power.
That's true, I guess.
Quincy:
table>
rowdypanther12 says:
but this feels like the first time an actual serious reform is happening—something that isn't just being driven by political theater.
it might look serious and promising, but I suspect it's still tied to politics quite heavily.
you can't really have a reform without some level of politics involved, I guess.
School closures/delays? in Students & Teens ·
Karen Richardson3 said:I honestly find it just as weird that kids are getting bored so early; my own experience was totally different, where that sense of boredom doesn't really kick in until they hit those middle school years around 5th or 6th grade when puberty starts hitting.
That’s exactly why I’m not a fan of this whole idea of pushing back school enrollment indefinitely, because you'll just end up with a kid in the lower grades who completely loses interest in learning.

To give you an idea, I didn't even start school until I was six, and at that point, I couldn't even read yet, but my mom never made a huge deal out of how I was feeling emotionally. The only thing that ever really happened was people praising how fast I caught up—since most kids in my class could already read, given I was part of that early 80s generation.

I get this impression that all these "over-involved moms" seem to think their little ones aren't ready for school until they're 7 or 8 years old.😳
(At least based on what I'm seeing here on the forum; I haven't come across a single person saying, "Actually, my kid is perfectly ready to start at age six.").

could you define what you mean by "highly involved moms"?😁
mine will be starting at 6 years and 8 months.
that seems about right.

personally, I absolutely loved elementary school; it’s one of those periods of my life I look back on with a lot of warmth and genuine fondness.😍

high school, though, was just awful.
the atmosphere was way too competitive, and the teachers were just so demanding in that old-school sort of way...🙂
What should I get for a godparent gift at a Baptism? in Students & Teens ·
Linda Price5 said:I was already aware of how much people were pulling in from wedding gigs. 😳

These threads really belong over in the Economics section.

Or maybe just dump them in the Off-Topic lounge. 😳
Postpartum health issues and breastfeeding struggles in Women's Health ·
I guess my biggest struggle right now is just the sheer anxiety about it all.😢

The first time around, they really went to town on me with the incisions, but the second time? It was like they practically tore me apart. They pulled everything way too tight, and now the healing process feels completely off—it looks like there’s just this massive crater down there, and honestly, I’m almost too scared to even look at it.😢

I mean, the aches and pains in my arms and back don't even feel like anything compared to the absolute dread I feel whenever I think about what's going on down below.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
I think I could manage it too.😳🥳

But honestly, I’d probably end up working myself to death, you know? Between prepping lessons at home and actually teaching them in class, it feels like a lot.
It isn't impossible, per se, but it's just incredibly exhausting.

I suppose I might even be willing to take on one of those really difficult classrooms, if only because I feel like it would be its own kind of challenge.
I wouldn't say no to a bigger paycheck, obviously, though if I really had the choice, I’d probably just go for the seniority credits instead.😬
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
I guess I’m on board with that too, though she probably shouldn't be voicing those kinds of opinions out loud in public.🙂
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
I don't really have any intention of diving into literary interpretations or comparing different books here, mostly because I feel like that's just totally off-topic for this space.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
I suppose I should probably start by saying that I’m not exactly an expert on this sort of thing, though I do tend to spend a fair amount of my free time thinking about it, I guess. It seems to me that when you look at how things are laid out, there's this certain weight to the way we perceive reality, which might be why some people find it so jarring. I was reading something the other day—it might have been a bit too dense for my liking—but it brought to mind that feeling you get when you realize everything isn't quite as solid as it appears to be. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like we often overlook the small, quiet shifts in the landscape because we're too busy looking for the big, dramatic explosions, much like how one might expect a film directed by Quentin Tarantino to unfold, whereas life is usually much more... subtle, if that makes sense. Anyway, I don't mean to wander off on a tangent, but it feels relevant. If we consider the way information flows through our modern institutions, it reminds me slightly of the complexity you see in a particularly difficult passage by James Joyce, where you have to squint just to make out the underlying rhythm. It's all very layered, I think, and perhaps a bit overwhelming if you don't approach it with a certain level of patience. Or maybe I'm just overthinking it, which is a habit I've never quite managed to break.
Chloe Roberts2 said:I don't quite get this perspective—how many books do you actually go through in a month? I’m talking about fiction, like Father Goriot, or maybe something more contemporary, but certainly nothing you feel forced to read for some reason. What kind of books are you into, generally speaking?
Do you truly believe that classics like Father Goriot or Crime and Punishment are somehow inherently superior to every single modern book (in other words, are you perhaps a bit of a book snob)?

Because I find it impossible to imagine that anyone who actually enjoys reading would ever compare, I don't know, a legitimate book to Kim Kardashian.
Most bookworms probably wouldn't touch a Goal truth if you paid them, though they might if there was a paycheck involved. Someone who reads because they genuinely love it, picking up standard books from the local library, isn't reading just so they can gossip about the author later; they're doing it to relax and escape the real world for a while.

I will never understand trying to put a Goal truth on the same level as a decent modern novel.

I guess I was just throwing out some extreme examples on purpose, so there’s really no need to take everything I said quite so literally.😉
I suppose I should start by mentioning that I’ve been thinking quite a bit about what urbantinker8 was getting at earlier, though I might be overanalyzing the whole thing, if that makes sense. It feels like we often get caught up in these sweeping generalizations, much like how one might overstate the influence of Quentin Tarantino when discussing modern cinema, even if his style is certainly unmistakable. There’s this tendency to want everything to fit into a neat little box, which I guess is just human nature, isn't it? We look for patterns where there might just be chaos, or perhaps just a series of unrelated events that we’ve decided to link together for the sake of a good story. I don't know, maybe I'm just being overly cautious with my conclusions, but it seems to me that we should probably approach these discussions with a bit more nuance, similar to how you wouldn't just credit William Shakespeare for every single dramatic trope used in a Hollywood blockbuster without acknowledging the layers beneath. It’s easy to be certain, but I find that certainty usually feels a little hollow after a while, so I tend to lean toward the middle ground, even if it's a bit less exciting than taking a firm side.
I suppose I should probably mention Miss Daisy, though I’m not entirely sure where to start with her, or if it even matters much in the grand scheme of things. She’s one of those people who just sort of exists in the periphery of your life, you know? I guess she’s always been around, moving through the world with this quiet, almost imperceptible presence that makes you wonder if you actually noticed her at all until she wasn't there. It’s a bit like watching a slow-moving fog roll over the Hudson; you don't really realize how much it has changed the landscape until everything is suddenly obscured. Maybe that's just how some people are built, I suppose—just a series of gentle, understated moments that don't demand much from anyone, which can be quite nice, I guess, if you have the temperament for it. There isn't much to say, really, other than she carries herself with a certain stillness that feels somewhat out of place in a country as loud and restless as America, but then again, maybe that's exactly why she stands out. urbantinker8 says:
I guess you could say William Shakespeare wrote about the people of his era for the people of his era, which is exactly why he was meant to be read back then. It kind of pains me when I hear that tired old excuse about how certain works are just "timeless universal problems," because there are countless authors out there today who are doing exactly what he did—writing about their own contemporary world for their own contemporaries. And apparently, reading those specific kinds of works is supposed to be the magic key to "developing a child's critical thinking skills," or so they tell us.
I mean, I guess you might have actually picked the wrong example there, if you think about it.😁

I suppose the distinction between people who actually matter and those who are just sort of... drifting through life, is a concept that feels just as relevant today as it did back in the Renaissance, I guess.😛

I hadn't really considered the idea that someone might claim to "know" James Joyce without actually sitting down to read him, because I suppose that would fall squarely into the category of just being a poseur—you know, having all the facts about when he lived, where he spent his time, or what he supposedly wrote, yet never actually having laid eyes on the work itself.

I suppose I’m talking about... I suppose I’ve always found myself drifting toward reading lately, though I can never quite pin down why it feels more necessary now than it did a few years ago. It isn't that I have more free time—God knows that's a myth—but there's just this sense that the world moves a bit too fast, and sitting down with a book feels like a way to slow the gears down, if that makes any sense. Maybe it's just a way to escape the constant noise of everything else going on around us. I don't know. It's probably just me being overly contemplative about something as simple as turning a page. I suppose I’ve been sitting here for quite a while, just staring at my bookshelf and wondering about the whole concept of the "greatest hits" of literature, if you want to call them that. It’s a funny thing, isn't it? This idea that we can somehow categorize the heavyweights of world literature—those names that everyone feels obligated to respect—and pit them against... well, everything else. I was thinking about how we tend to treat certain authors like they’re untouchable, almost like a canon that’s set in stone, when really, greatness is such a slippery, subjective thing. You have someone like James Joyce, for instance, whose work can feel like a labyrinth you never quite find your way out of, and then you have the more structured, perhaps more accessible giants. I guess what I'm trying to get at is whether there's actually a meaningful distinction between those "classics" and the modern stuff we consume today, or if we're just clinging to old names because it makes us feel a bit more cultured. Maybe it's all just a matter of timing and luck, though I suspect most people would argue that's a bit too cynical. It’s hard to say, really. I suppose I should probably mention something about reading, though I’m never quite sure if it’s worth dwelling on, given how much noise there is out there lately. It feels like one of those things where you start with a simple intention—maybe just picking up a book to pass the time during a flight to Chicago or something—and then you find yourself spiraling into these deep, quiet rabbit holes that take up way more headspace than you originally planned. I guess it’s just a way to slow everything down, maybe, or perhaps it's just a habit I can't seem to shake, even when there are much more pressing things to attend to. It’s a strange, quiet sort of preoccupation, I suppose. I suppose I’ve been spending an awful lot of time lately thinking about the nature of belles-lettres, or whatever we call that specific, somewhat lofty category of pure literature these days. It’s a bit of a wandering thought, really, but there is something about the way we categorize writing—separating the "useful" prose from the stuff that just exists to be beautiful or evocative—that feels increasingly arbitrary, I guess. Maybe it’s just me, but I often find myself drifting between the two, wondering if the distinction even matters anymore in a world where everything is so aggressively functional. It’s like trying to decide if a piece of music is meant to be a soundtrack or just art, which is a bit of a moot point if you’re actually listening, isn't it? Anyway, I don't mean to ramble on about the philosophy of aesthetics, but I find the whole concept of "literary" versus "non-literary" to be a rather curious, perhaps slightly outdated, way to view the written word.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
nimblelynx7 said:Exactly. If someone spends 12 years in a profession and there’s zero tangible results to show for it—or worse, just a mountain of useless junk produced everywhere—then they should shut their mouths instead of pointing fingers and hunting for scapegoats.

Parents, kids, and teachers are all victims of a disgusting, warped, and idiotic educational system. Parents and children are the ones suffering at the hands of teachers, yet those teachers try to frame them as accomplices in this failure. I can't think of anything more repulsive.
Parents and kids are forced into this school system by law; teachers are there by choice, and most of them are only there because they couldn't come up with a better career path.

Yeah.

Unless by "functional skills" you mean training them for mindless obedience to authority—which is what school is actually designed for. Kids aren't stupid, regardless of how much teachers want them to be, and they clearly realize that developing good work habits won't help them nearly as much as brown-nosing will.

As for the screen addiction, that's an additional problem. What's worst is that a kid sitting at a laptop all day, given their own intelligence or proper guidance, can learn far more than they ever would in a classroom, simply because they actually *want* to learn, not because they're being coerced.

I don't really know whether I should give 🤣 or 😢 to all this attitude you've laid out here.
I don't really have much else to say to someone who basically admits they are a product of this same broken, dysfunctional, and idiotic educational system.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
rowdypanther12, I don't know, I guess I might have to disagree with you there.

I tend to run in a pretty diverse circle of friends, people from all sorts of walks of life—you've got professors and MDs, then there are the folks with PhDs in economics, plus IT specialists, and even just everyday people like shopkeepers, chefs, or hairstylists.

And, I suppose I can't really deny that there's a noticeable difference in the general culture—it kind of shows up in what we talk about, how we express our thoughts, and even just the vocabulary we use...

Now, I'm definitely not saying I discriminate against anyone based on their degree—I value everyone equally, I really do😍—but it’s just an observation that our conversations rarely ever seem to head in the same direction.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
Karen Richardson3 said:🤣

I went to a prep school myself, and in my class, there were these three girls who were total "nerds"—meaning they actually sat down and studied for exams. For the rest of us, we spent most of our time in that school learning nothing but how to copy off someone else's paper.

Why was that? Well, we were juggling seventeen different subjects, hitting six or seven classes every single day, and since we weren't like those three girls who would head straight home to study for the next morning, we were busy doing what teenagers actually do—hanging out, falling in love, and just living life.

Whenever I look back on my high school years, the first thing that pops into my head is just the absolute mess and lack of organization everywhere.😁

But anyway, whatever. If we're talking about "developing critical thinking skills," here's my take:
If I were working in education, I’d teach history. It’s a total myth that the goal of teaching history is to foster critical thinking; in reality, the whole point is often just to indoctrinate young people with nationalistic myths. Almost everything taught regarding American history in high school gets categorized under "national mythology" once you get to a university level.

Also, regarding English literature classes—I truly believe the goal should be teaching students how to communicate using standard American English (which is basically what rowdypanther12 is getting at) and, as a higher aim, introducing them to works that actually make them want to pick up a book.
Instead, the reality is that language instruction is kept to a bare minimum, while kids are forced to slog through incredibly boring classics that drive them away from reading entirely, all under the guise of "these are the greats," "it's part of a well-rounded education," or "how could you not know who T.S. Eliot is?"

To me, being "well-read" means actually reading things after you finish school, not just knowing that Joyce wrote Ulysses without ever having actually held the book or read a single page.

And finally—one of the main products this kind of school system successfully churns out is a generation of graduates who flock to liberal arts degrees only to find themselves completely unemployable. They end up drifting into politics just to put food on the table. Basically, the idea that "school isn't just about job training, it's about expanding your spirit" creates an army of political science majors and philosophers who eventually join political parties just to survive, becoming tiny cogs in the machine of corruption in this country because, frankly, they have no other way to get a paycheck.

And you see, I also had seventeen subjects, and I’d probably breeze through them with nothing but nonsense for maybe two or three classes that were absolutely boring or just didn't make any sense to me, but I actually did study for the others.
And I still managed to have a social life, go out, and fall in love, believe it or not.

It’s not like anyone ever explicitly stated that the whole point of education is to foster critical thinking.
The primary goal is really just to present certain important facts, and then, I suppose, there's a second level where you might eventually form an opinion or develop some sort of critical thought about them.
Because if you don't actually know the facts, it's probably pretty hard to have a meaningful stance on them. 🤷

And I wouldn't necessarily agree that general culture is defined by what someone reads after they finish school, because there is literature and then there is... well, literature, so I can't really prioritize someone who has never even heard of Joyce or Marulic in their entire life, but spends every single day devouring works by Coelh or Pamela Anderson instead of someone who is somewhat acquainted with the classics of American and world literature.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
nimblelynx7 said:Parents have their flaws, and I’ve never once given them a free pass for their mistakes.

The whole point of school is supposedly to equip kids with functional life skills—that’s why mandatory education exists (not just so teachers have somewhere to clock in, or to force children into a cookie-cutter mold). It isn't the parents' job to teach kids how to perform the work that puts food on the table; that’s supposed to be the school's responsibility.

...but not nearly as much as the teachers, is that what you were getting at?

I mean, kids can certainly pick up basic functional skills at school without much trouble, but if they aren't being taught any actual work ethic from an early age, or if all they hear at home is constant negativity about school, or if they end up enrolling in whatever school is cool or just where all their neighborhood friends go rather than the one that actually matches their abilities, then even the best school isn't going to be a magic fix.
You just can't teach someone anything if they aren't willing to learn. Not even basic arithmetic or abstract reasoning.

It's probably just easier to blame everything on some sort of "pointless failure."

My kid is apparently incapable of making rational decisions because they were forced to memorize every single US state and major European capitals, when the real issue isn't the curriculum, but the fact that we don't engage with them at home, and instead they spend all day hypnotized by the TV, phone, tablet, or laptop.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
nimblelynx7 said:And what else is education for? Look, it’s nice to stare at the stars and know their names and facts about them—assuming you aren't staring at them from under a bridge because you can't afford a house since you can't find a job to pay for one.

Do you actually believe that, or are you just reciting the official script?

High school graduates are expected to be capable of making independent, rational decisions. So what? Maybe the honors students know math and the pastry chefs don't. Big deal. I'm sure solving a differential equation will fix every single problem in their lives.

The whole thing with the interest rate math is a total tragedy; it's as if bankers themselves wrote the national curriculum.

I mean, learning how to make independent, logical choices isn't something that just happens within the four walls of a classroom.
But that’s often how the narrative goes, I guess, because when someone in their late teens or even mid-twenties struggles to weigh a situation rationally, it’s just much easier to point the finger at the education system.
It’s almost as if parents play absolutely zero role in shaping that development during a child's upbringing, right?

It’s always someone else's fault, like we're all just blaming the runoff from the Amazon in Brazil for everything gone wrong.🙄
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
Susan James said:Here’s a suggestion for changing the school curriculum, coming straight from a teacher on the front lines.
The way they consult with a psychologist or a whole support team is really just a way to shift the responsibility elsewhere.
But let’s be real—a psychologist isn't sitting through a math lecture, struggling to figure out why a student just isn't grasping the equations. 🥳

You’d be surprised how many complaints there are about these "solutions." Even when the adjustments haven't been cleared by a medical facility and a psychologist was part of the decision-making team, the teachers themselves are often the ones raising issues (even if they try to hide behind the school's entire support staff).

I suspect you might be a bit mistaken here.

Of course, a teacher is going to react if they see a student can't keep up with the standard curriculum; I suppose that’s just our job and our responsibility.

Consulting with a guidance counselor, a psychologist, or a specialist doctor is actually a requirement for us, rather than some clever way to pass the buck.
In these specific scenarios, those specialists are essentially treated as the higher authority, so they’re the ones deciding if something needs adjusting and how it should look.
That’s honestly the most irritating part for me, because the psychologist or counselor ends up meddling in my actual field, dictating learning plans, testing methods, and everything else... instead of letting me handle it, which gives me all the official paperwork I need.🙄 And, as you pointed out, they aren't the ones sitting in my classroom dealing with the struggle of students failing to understand the lesson.☕

And, by the way, I never received any extra pay or anything like that during my career, nor would I ever ask for it, even when I had students on individualized programs.😕
I’ve had classes where as many as five students needed some sort of accommodation in one of many different ways.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
Karen Richardson3 said:Back when I was at Seattle Sounders FC studying American linguistics and literature, students would actually lose points on their lit exams just because of spelling errors—and we're talking basic stuff, like simple phonetic slips.

☕

As for this whole "general knowledge" debate, I think it's just a leftover relic of Sullivan's old-school idealism. That well-meaning guy probably truly believed that everyone deserves a shot at a high-level education because humans are inherently wonderful.
Fine, it was a specific moment in history and whatever.
But in practice, it ended up crushing small businesses and alienating the people who actually valued deep learning.

By the way, regarding the idea that you don't need to train waiters—sure, maybe you don't need training if you're just serving shots in some dive bar at 7 AM, but if you want to work in a high-end restaurant, you definitely do. A good server needs to be multilingual, carry themselves with class, and know exactly how to upsell the most expensive bottle on the menu.
At least the people I know working in hospitality swear by it.

Good grief, frupy... what are we even talking about here? The reality is that kids are taught about Frost and the Revolutionary War, but just a few years later, practically nobody knows anything about them unless they're specifically heading to an Ivy League school to become professors.
The truth is, they just don't care.
And because they don't care, they aren't actually learning; they're just copying answers, cheating, and barely scraping by through the system.
Are you seriously suggesting that Americans possess a high level of general culture?

Karen Richardson3 said:Just a side note: after grinding through all that heavy-duty math, we’re seeing graduates walk out of high schools who can't even figure out how much interest they'll owe on a car loan.

It’s wild—you end up with people who are basically clueless when it comes to managing their money, running a business, or just handling the basic logistics of adult life.

Honestly, you start wondering if there's some kind of cosmic joke at play here; like, sure, you need to master calculus and complex integrals, but heaven forbid you actually learn what different interest rates mean or how a standard mortgage repayment schedule works.

I think you might be grouping too many things together and generalizing a bit too much, if I may say so.
It’s a given that kids in a standard American high school will be taught about T.S. Eliot and the Revolutionary War.
Because part of the point of a preparatory high school is to provide a broader education than, say, a vocational school for chimney sweeps, and I suppose T.S. Eliot and historical conflicts are definitely part of that broader knowledge and general culture.
Still, most high schoolers are expected to go to college, so it would be rather awkward if they had no idea who T.S. Eliot was.
I guess you could forgive the chimney sweep for that.😁

The ones who are cheating, copying, and just sliding through the system are usually the students who chose a prep school simply because it sounds more prestigious than enrolling in an HVAC technician program. Even parents feel a certain shame if their child, heaven forbid, ends up in a three-year trade school.

As for derivatives and integrals, they aren't taught everywhere—it’s generally expected that if high schoolers have mastered those, they should also be able to handle basic interest calculations.
But butchers or pastry chefs aren't exactly being bothered with calculus.

You seem to be speaking somewhat off the cuff, I suppose.

The curriculum itself isn't the same, nor is the volume of material; there's a big difference between a prep school where you take history for two hours a week over four years or math for three or four hours, compared to a vocational school where you might only have history for one or two years at an hour or two a week, and math for two hours over three years.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
rowdypanther12 said:But urbantinker8, we’re talking about students who are clearly passing with straight As and Bs! That’s the whole point. If they’ve managed to graduate from college, you have to assume they weren't scraping by with Ds in middle school or failing everything in high school. You know? It’s just frustrating because kids are getting these top-tier grades despite having almost no basic literacy skills.

And one more thing—since when did nobody fail anymore? I feel like I’ve asked this so many times before. When did this unwritten rule start? Back when I was in school in the early '90s, and even when my sister was in school in the late '90s, people definitely failed classes back then.

I suppose it is possible for students to pass with Bs despite getting Ds in English.
I don't really know exactly when this unwritten rule kicked in; it feels like it was just sort of spontaneously imposed on us.😁
If I had to guess, based on when I was working at my very first elementary school, maybe around the 2003/2004 school year, it was already an established practice by then.

silentraven6 said:This right here? This is the bedrock of our failing education system, this country, everything!!!!

This is the root of all our issues. This is how we were raised; this is how we perceive the world!

The fact that kids today have a better grasp of money and financial culture than they do basic math—something you shouldn't even need to memorize unless it's an extreme case, and something that can actually be learned through real understanding—is telling. It’s the fact that we live in a society, really a global one, that’s drowned in neoliberal capitalism where we've cherry-picked the absolute worst parts and tossed out the best. It's the fact that we have been, historically speaking, anchored as a nation of fools who are just a mass of people to be exploited and sent to the front lines because geniuses die too early and then we lose them. And that applies to everything, from industry to warfare—I mention war because historically we've been known as a tribe of warriors used to fight someone else's battles. The fact that we were never truly educated as citizens... that is what our struggles have actually given us!

That’s why I say, we can talk about school reform all day, but what we really need first is a spiritual reform. We need critical thinking. We need a reform of the mind itself!

🙏🙏🙏
I don't really have anything to add.☕
Susan James said:And can you imagine the uproar the unions would cause if certain subjects were cut, or if hours were reduced, or if some kids were allowed to skip specific classes?
Or, you know, if certain jobs were eliminated...
If some teachers actually had to look for work somewhere else...🤔

Sure, kids are still forming, and we all keep growing and developing throughout our entire lives, but so many kids just struggle through elementary school with bad grades, constant absences, a poor self-image, or social hurdles. They spend time in an environment where they could instead be picking up practical skills—especially if their parents run a local business or work in agriculture.

The obsession with providing a "general education" often results in kids just sitting in chairs too much, which kills their drive to learn and explore. Ultimately, it stifles a child's genuine interests.
And all of this happens just to protect existing jobs.
We need to have the guts to admit that some kids want to be carpenters or florists. We shouldn't care about what A. Senou or Matos think; if they aren't interested in historical wars and just want to saw wood or tend to plants, let them.

Most of what is mandatory in elementary school right now is totally unnecessary, and the way we force kids to learn is actually counterproductive.

The truth is, instructional hours are definitely being cut, and some subjects are slipping through the cracks.😉
The people who really ought to be cleared out of our schools aren't going anywhere, mostly because they aren't strictly or directly under the thumb of the Department of Culture (and I might add, there's plenty of influence from the Vatican 😉), so you end up having to offer things like "ethics" classes as a sort of workaround.
It’s probably not quite as straightforward as it looks on the surface.
Susan James said:Students do fail.
I work with several different schools and deal with kids from all sorts of backgrounds, and let me tell you, there are definitely failures in middle school.
The thing is, it just seems "easier" now. Teachers would rather go through the hassle of setting up an individualized education program (IEP) to help a kid pass than actually fail them.
Once a student is on an IEP, it’s like they aren't even allowed to fail.
As for what those programs actually look like... I'll just leave that alone.
Teachers even get a small stipend for managing them. So, the workload for the kids goes down, while they still walk away with Cs, or even As, despite not really grasping the material. Personally, I think instead of these watered-down programs, it would be better to just cut half the curriculum and have them actually master the essentials.

Forgive me, but I think you'll have to agree that the ones pushing hardest for these modified programs are usually the psychologists and pedagogues, certainly not the classroom teachers.😉
So, I guess we really need to sweep our own house before we start pointing fingers elsewhere.😁

And if there really are failures in elementary school, they seem to be such isolated incidents that they are statistically pretty much negligible.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
rowdypanther12 said:But it’s necessary. Someone let them graduate elementary school with decent enough grades to get into a good high school, and then someone else cleared them to head off to college based on those grades.
I'm talking about people who can't even spell "children" correctly, write with a chip on their shoulder, and constantly butcher basic grammar. It's the kind of stuff you see all over the internet.
The same goes for actual knowledge—there are just huge gaps in understanding across almost every subject.
It's much more important to actually grasp the underlying causes behind things like World War I or II—like how political shifts impact science and the arts—than it is to just memorize a single date by heart.

Sure, maybe they coasted through middle school and high school, but let's be realistic—you can't exactly expect a student to fail an entire grade just because they don't know the difference between "its" and "it's." 🤷
Maybe at some point (at the latest during summer school😁), they actually know all their other basic fundamentals, so they somehow manage to scrape by with a D in English.

What I eventually find myself blaming about the system in this specific context are two things:
1. This unwritten rule where kids don't really fail grades in elementary school because apparently that’s "not pedagogical."🙄
2. The way standardized testing works today, where the questions at the lower levels feel almost trivial while the passing threshold sits at a measly 20-30%.

But honestly, both of those are just results of outside pressure, like the constant complaining from parents and students regarding the school system.
That’s just the struggle we've been handed.😁

Angela Wright4 said:If a topic is already officially part of the curriculum, I would assume there’s enough flexibility to schedule it whenever the instructor is actually available. Most parents can't make it in the afternoon because the transit options just aren't there... even our parent-teacher conferences are held during the morning shift to accommodate everyone.

After ten years in the classroom, I’ve learned that there are almost always extra hours left over at the end of the school year. Because of that, missing just one hour during my entire teaching tenure—especially when working in a group setting—doesn't feel like a major disruption to the curriculum. Besides, these adjustments are often baked right into the state-mandated syllabus and the overall academic curriculum anyway...

Kids... they're mostly just wonderful...
Parents... what can I even say? I find myself thinking, more often than I should probably admit, "poor kids"...
School staff... honestly, I’d be more inclined to give them a minus than a plus most days. If you ever step foot in one of those rural district schools, you’ll see exactly what I mean—they’re practically lounging around in sweatpants. It’s especially jarring when they start discussing curriculum or instructional matters while looking like they’re headed to the gym... Then you have the specialists who only bother showing up once the morning rush of dropping kids off at daycare or preschool is over, usually strolling in around 9:00 AM. And the principal? They just seem perfectly fine with it. Even when the principal heads home to whip up lunch and then wanders back to the office, it’s all supposedly "on the clock." Please, don't think for a second that I'm exaggerating or trying to make things sound more dramatic than they actually are. At the end of the day, I am just a mother watching my wonderful boy navigate the same educational system that his peers across all of America deal with. This isn't even his specific school, and the staff there aren't necessarily better or worse than anyone else's... it just hits closer to home for me because I know exactly how the gears turn behind the scenes. I even worked at that very school for a while...

Maybe I’m not expressing myself quite right—I know I tend to repeat myself, using terms like "constantly" or "frequently"—but when you spend year after year working with hundreds, actually thousands of people, those heavy negatives just seem to follow you everywhere. They are impossible to miss, and there truly are so many of them. Meanwhile, the genuinely good people in our school systems don't really stand out; they don't make much noise. I know they're out there, of course, but it's the "bad" ones who always grab the headlines... that’s just how I see things...

Just because your child—and mine—is being raised with a decent sense of values and solid role models doesn't mean everyone else is getting that same treatment. I’m telling you this as someone who works in education: you only see what's happening within the walls of your own school district. In my line of work, I interact with over a thousand elementary schoolers, both individually and in groups, and honestly... the overall impression I get is nothing short of terrifying. From basic literacy to a total lack of fundamental life knowledge, it's a mess. And please don't ask me for specific examples. It's the general lack of common sense—like kids thinking they don't even need to get out of bed if something is less than four inches away from them, or their complete inability to navigate a simple directory... things like that...
People generally struggle much more with expressing themselves clearly in writing than they do when speaking...

I don't think you're making things up, but I have to admit, it feels a little insulting when it implies that all of us teachers are cut from the same cloth.
I’ve worked at several different schools, ranging from elementary to high school, and I’ve never shown up to work in sweatpants, been late to class, left early, or spent an entire period just chatting about my personal life to kill time.
But, I suppose it makes sense that the "bad" ones are much more conspicuous, so people rarely ever talk about the "good" ones.

Regarding the required teaching hours, I should probably mention that at my school, we always struggle to hit the target number by the end of the year. So many hours get lost to holidays, school events, various projects, field trips, graduation activities, or just people calling in sick...
Because of that, we never really had the luxury of holding lectures during instructional time.

And I feel like I should comment on that last part of yours.🙂
That notion—that it isn't worth getting out of bed for anything less than four inches—is a perspective that students bring exclusively from their homes.😉
I doubt any teacher would pass on a worldview where they wouldn't bother putting in any effort for anything slightly larger than four inches.😉
I can't tell you how many times students have asked me why I even bother trying with them for such a meager salary, or why I don't just go find some better-paying job elsewhere.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
rowdypanther12 said:It honestly bothers me that some people graduate from college and are barely literate, if that.
To me, that should be one of the core responsibilities of elementary school. Beyond just basic math, students need a solid grasp of geography and history. To even pass, you really need to be able to read and write properly. You don't need to know what an alliteration or a pleonasm is, but you definitely shouldn't be misspelling basic words.

But honestly, I don't think you can really point the finger at the education system for that.🤷