Posts by urbantinker8

I think I’m on the exact same page as everything you just laid out.

See, being a language teacher—which, let's be honest, is a bit of a shared struggle for all of us in this field—we actually have this rather lucky break where competitions don't just obsess over dry, dusty facts or rote memorization.🙏 Instead, they focus more on actual comprehension and whether a student can actually apply what they've learned in a bunch of different, unpredictable contexts.

And honestly, thank goodness we have the ability to sharpen our own skills whenever we feel like it; I don't really feel like I need to sit around waiting for some district office to organize a formal seminar or a workshop just to get better at my job.

Of course, there are definitely people who would rather just coast, but I guess the general perception is that we’re all just lazy and unmotivated, which maybe explains why the whole country seems to be struggling so much lately.🙄

Whether you think it sounds foolish or brilliant, I suppose it doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things.
It is what it is, I guess. ☕

I honestly think it might be time for parents to stop acting like experts on everything and blaming the local school district for every little thing that goes sideways.🙂

At the end of the day, it’s really on them to raise their kids properly, I suppose—to actually spend quality time with them whenever possible, to have a decent grasp on what they’re actually doing during class or in their free time, and to maintain some kind of realistic expectations about what a kid can actually achieve.

It’s just a shame that so many people lose their way in certain areas or hit a wall at some point, and then they just start frantically pointing fingers at whoever happens to be on duty.

swiftranger16 said:I totally agree about the parents pushing for this. I worked in a school for a while, and I had this one mom—a dentist—come in and try to condescendingly tell me it was time for a test because there was "too much material" to cover. I basically told her to calm down, take a seat, and let me finish pulling a tooth...

And regarding those counselors—you put it lightly. I’d say they need even harsher evaluations than the teachers.

It's not true that nobody has a vision. There are plenty of people in education who understand the system and have great ideas, but they aren't working for the Department of Education or that ridiculous agency.
Just popping into a classroom to check a gradebook or flip through endless piles of pointless paperwork isn't an actual evaluation.

Standardized tests, and especially competitions, aren't everything.

But honestly, most teachers don't put in the extra work. They don't bother with professional development (and those little workshops aren't really "development"). They bust their backs just to avoid getting mocked by kids or parents, their pay is garbage, they have zero resources, and the job itself becomes a joke... blah, blah, blah. There are so many excuses you can make that you don't have to do anything at all. You get a teaching job and just coast until retirement. Again, I said *most*. There are exceptions. It's just sad that those exceptions are the rare ones instead of the rule.

Man, thank goodness, someone else who’s just as crazy as I am.😬

swiftranger16 said:I totally agree about the parents pushing for this. I worked in a school for a while, and I had this one mom—a dentist—come in and try to condescendingly tell me it was time for a test because there was "too much material" to cover. I basically told her to calm down, take a seat, and let me finish pulling a tooth...

And regarding those counselors—you put it lightly. I’d say they need even harsher evaluations than the teachers.

It's not true that nobody has a vision. There are plenty of people in education who understand the system and have great ideas, but they aren't working for the Department of Education or that ridiculous agency.
Just popping into a classroom to check a gradebook or flip through endless piles of pointless paperwork isn't an actual evaluation.

Standardized tests, and especially competitions, aren't everything.

But honestly, most teachers don't put in the extra work. They don't bother with professional development (and those little workshops aren't really "development"). They bust their backs just to avoid getting mocked by kids or parents, their pay is garbage, they have zero resources, and the job itself becomes a joke... blah, blah, blah. There are so many excuses you can make that you don't have to do anything at all. You get a teaching job and just coast until retirement. Again, I said *most*. There are exceptions. It's just sad that those exceptions are the rare ones instead of the rule.

I suppose because there are some really good ones out there, though they seem incredibly rare.
Most of the time, you’re looking at former teachers who probably should have been sent to an oversight board first.😳

swiftranger16 said:I totally agree about the parents pushing for this. I worked in a school for a while, and I had this one mom—a dentist—come in and try to condescendingly tell me it was time for a test because there was "too much material" to cover. I basically told her to calm down, take a seat, and let me finish pulling a tooth...

And regarding those counselors—you put it lightly. I’d say they need even harsher evaluations than the teachers.

It's not true that nobody has a vision. There are plenty of people in education who understand the system and have great ideas, but they aren't working for the Department of Education or that ridiculous agency.
Just popping into a classroom to check a gradebook or flip through endless piles of pointless paperwork isn't an actual evaluation.

Standardized tests, and especially competitions, aren't everything.

But honestly, most teachers don't put in the extra work. They don't bother with professional development (and those little workshops aren't really "development"). They bust their backs just to avoid getting mocked by kids or parents, their pay is garbage, they have zero resources, and the job itself becomes a joke... blah, blah, blah. There are so many excuses you can make that you don't have to do anything at all. You get a teaching job and just coast until retirement. Again, I said *most*. There are exceptions. It's just sad that those exceptions are the rare ones instead of the rule.

But even if there were a vision, there isn't any money.
There isn't money for basic supplies, so where on earth would you find funding for something like that?

swiftranger16 said:I totally agree about the parents pushing for this. I worked in a school for a while, and I had this one mom—a dentist—come in and try to condescendingly tell me it was time for a test because there was "too much material" to cover. I basically told her to calm down, take a seat, and let me finish pulling a tooth...

And regarding those counselors—you put it lightly. I’d say they need even harsher evaluations than the teachers.

It's not true that nobody has a vision. There are plenty of people in education who understand the system and have great ideas, but they aren't working for the Department of Education or that ridiculous agency.
Just popping into a classroom to check a gradebook or flip through endless piles of pointless paperwork isn't an actual evaluation.

Standardized tests, and especially competitions, aren't everything.

But honestly, most teachers don't put in the extra work. They don't bother with professional development (and those little workshops aren't really "development"). They bust their backs just to avoid getting mocked by kids or parents, their pay is garbage, they have zero resources, and the job itself becomes a joke... blah, blah, blah. There are so many excuses you can make that you don't have to do anything at all. You get a teaching job and just coast until retirement. Again, I said *most*. There are exceptions. It's just sad that those exceptions are the rare ones instead of the rule.

I agree.
The only—and arguably most mindless—thing those inspectors do is comb through paperwork.
As far as they're concerned, if everything looks right on paper, then everything is fine. Period.🤦

swiftranger16 said:I totally agree about the parents pushing for this. I worked in a school for a while, and I had this one mom—a dentist—come in and try to condescendingly tell me it was time for a test because there was "too much material" to cover. I basically told her to calm down, take a seat, and let me finish pulling a tooth...

And regarding those counselors—you put it lightly. I’d say they need even harsher evaluations than the teachers.

It's not true that nobody has a vision. There are plenty of people in education who understand the system and have great ideas, but they aren't working for the Department of Education or that ridiculous agency.
Just popping into a classroom to check a gradebook or flip through endless piles of pointless paperwork isn't an actual evaluation.

Standardized tests, and especially competitions, aren't everything.

But honestly, most teachers don't put in the extra work. They don't bother with professional development (and those little workshops aren't really "development"). They bust their backs just to avoid getting mocked by kids or parents, their pay is garbage, they have zero resources, and the job itself becomes a joke... blah, blah, blah. There are so many excuses you can make that you don't have to do anything at all. You get a teaching job and just coast until retirement. Again, I said *most*. There are exceptions. It's just sad that those exceptions are the rare ones instead of the rule.

I suppose I agree with you on certain points, though only in a limited capacity.
High school graduation exams are honestly such a massive pain.🙂
It seems like the questions are getting progressively easier year after year, and I guess the passing threshold keeps dropping right along with them, too.
I guess I’m just sitting here wondering why, really. It feels like one of those questions that doesn't have a straightforward answer, though maybe I'm overthinking things again. It's hard to say without knowing exactly what we're aiming at, but I suppose there's always a reason behind the chaos, even if it's buried under layers of sheer randomness.
I suppose, if we’re being honest, it all really comes down to making sure both the parents and the kids actually walk away feeling satisfied.🙄

I mean, those competitions can get pretty brutal sometimes, I guess, and that’s really where you see who actually knows their stuff versus who's just winging it.
I suppose there’s a bit of a distinction to be made here, though it's subtle; whereas something like a Mature certification is basically designed so that everyone can just breeze through it, actual competitions have this inherent, elimination-style nature to them, which I guess allows for a much more genuine way to evaluate and compare one person's work against another's.

urbantinker8: I was thinking about what was said earlier, and I guess if you look at it from a certain angle, maybe there's some truth to it, though I'm not entirely sure. It feels like one of those situations where everything seems straightforward until you actually sit down to parse through the details, which, as it turns out, are rarely as simple as they appear on the surface. I suppose I might be overthinking things, but I can't help but feel that we tend to overlook the smaller nuances that end up making all the difference in the long run. It’s funny how that works, really. Anyway, I just wanted to add that bit of perspective, even if it's a little bit rambly.

swiftranger16 said:I totally agree about the parents pushing for this. I worked in a school for a while, and I had this one mom—a dentist—come in and try to condescendingly tell me it was time for a test because there was "too much material" to cover. I basically told her to calm down, take a seat, and let me finish pulling a tooth...

And regarding those counselors—you put it lightly. I’d say they need even harsher evaluations than the teachers.

It's not true that nobody has a vision. There are plenty of people in education who understand the system and have great ideas, but they aren't working for the Department of Education or that ridiculous agency.
Just popping into a classroom to check a gradebook or flip through endless piles of pointless paperwork isn't an actual evaluation.

Standardized tests, and especially competitions, aren't everything.

But honestly, most teachers don't put in the extra work. They don't bother with professional development (and those little workshops aren't really "development"). They bust their backs just to avoid getting mocked by kids or parents, their pay is garbage, they have zero resources, and the job itself becomes a joke... blah, blah, blah. There are so many excuses you can make that you don't have to do anything at all. You get a teaching job and just coast until retirement. Again, I said *most*. There are exceptions. It's just sad that those exceptions are the rare ones instead of the rule.

And now, all those professional development courses are just sitting in my browser cookies because, well—once again—there’s just no money in it.
It’s been happening more often lately, I suppose, that none of my specific courses have actually offered a seminar in a major city like Chicago for three or four years running. It’s a bit of a strange pattern, I guess, though maybe it isn't entirely unexpected given how much things have shifted recently.😲
So, it looks like we’re facing that same old situation again where seminars outside of the city are on the table, but there's just zero budget for it. I was talking to the director, and apparently, out of the five of us on the executive team, they're saying only one person can go—or maybe absolutely nobody at all, depending on how the math works out. It's a bit much, I guess.🙄
The ZSV situation is just a total disaster, honestly. I don't even bother counting them when I'm looking at how much progress is actually being made in this field.🙂

As for the whole debate over working versus just coasting through the day... I suppose every profession has its share of people who actually put in the effort and those who sort of just drift along, and I imagine education is no different in that regard.
It kind of gets under my skin, I guess, whenever people start whining about this supposed "lazy majority" that supposedly does absolutely nothing all day.
I mean, I guess those are just silly, unfounded prejudices, if you ask me.
It’s kind of in the same vein as those people who claim that most clerks at the DMV are perpetually rude, or that most judges are inherently corrupt, or that most cops are just plain dim, or even that most doctors have developed some sort of massive superiority complex. I guess it all falls under that same general category of cynical generalizations, maybe.🤷

I can't speak for everyone else, but I think I know exactly why I get so defensive whenever someone brings up the idea of "teacher performance reviews."🙄

First off, you always see parents pushing for these evaluations for all the wrong reasons—usually because they’re frustrated with mediocre grades, a lack of actual knowledge, or disappointing SAT scores... because, naturally, any failure their kid experiences gets dumped squarely on the shoulders of some supposedly incompetent teacher.🤦

Then there’s the issue of who would actually be doing the evaluating. Most of them would probably be school counselors, and let’s be honest, there are plenty of amateurs in that field. You have people who haven't stepped foot in a classroom in over twenty years; they've completely lost touch with how students learn today, what the curriculum looks like, or even how grading works, yet they're more than happy to play judge and jury.

Thirdly, nobody actually has a concrete plan for how this "assessment" would even work in practice. Just looking at standardized test scores doesn't prove anything. And trying to organize formal peer observations for every single teacher every few years? That's practically impossible because it would require an immense amount of money and time—resources our Department of Education certainly doesn't have to spare.

Personally, though, I don't really have an issue with it, and I'm certainly not worried about someone dropping in on my class or giving me some clever little suggestion, especially since my students consistently perform great on their exams and in competitions.🙂
What really gets under my skin is when people who know next to nothing about the education system, specific subjects, or even kids in general, try to insert themselves into conversations where they don't belong, loudly claiming that schools are failing, teachers aren't doing their jobs, and innocent children are just caught in the middle.

Jonathan Ortiz2 said:

I don't know, man, I guess I'm just one of those people who spends way too much time overthinking things that probably don't even matter, but honestly, everything feels like it's just spinning out of control lately. It’s kind of exhausting trying to make sense of all this chaos when it feels like nobody actually knows what they're doing, you know? I'm just sitting here, drinking my coffee, watching the world burn, and wondering if anyone else feels this weirdly detached from it all. kaže:
I mean, I’m not even totally sure if there's actually a legitimate career path for masons anymore.🤔

Whatever, it doesn't even matter.
Honestly, I wasn't even aiming for some three-year vocational program anyway, since nobody from those tracks even bothers showing up for the SATs.
Look, I’m telling you, crushing those final exams isn't just about whether your teacher is a genius or a total nightmare, so don't go pinning everything on them.
That’s some straight-up, grade-A bullshit right there.

You're telling me they're beyond saving, no matter who ends up handing them the keys...

I mean, sure, you could go the masonry route, but honestly? I wouldn’t even bother looking at the state colleges for that kind of thing.

Alright, you didn't give me an answer... so let me ask again, would things actually be any better if vocational schools started valuing one another—like, if professors at those places actually respected what the other schools were doing? Or even high schools trading some respect back and forth? I mean, does that kind of mutual recognition actually change anything on the ground, or is it just more academic noise?

I suppose that might make a bit more sense, though I guess it still doesn't really change the core reality that students actually need to study if they want to pass any kind of SAT, final exam, or standardized test, and it isn't strictly just the teacher's fault or credit when someone succeeds or fails.

For instance, looking back at my own time in middle school and high school, I definitely had the absolute best physics teachers ever.
And no matter how incredible they were, I could never really push myself past a C, or maybe a B on a good day, mostly because I just don't have a science brain and, honestly, I usually couldn't wrap my head around anything they said when they were explaining all the different types of motion and stuff.🙈

On the flip side, I ended up having the most uninspiring, terrible teachers in the very subjects I eventually went to college for.

It's not that the first group was to blame for me being mediocre at physics, nor were the second group responsible for me absolutely crushing their subjects later on.

I’m not entirely certain if there’s even a dedicated track for masonry students within the current system.🤔

but, I suppose it doesn't really matter.
I wasn't exactly aiming for those three-year vocational programs anyway, since, from what I gather, kids coming out of those specialized tracks don't typically even bother sitting for the SATs.
And no, I wouldn't say that success on standardized tests depends solely on the individual subject teacher.
that's just total nonsense, honestly.

So, I suppose it’s worth asking whether it actually matters if someone teaches at a top-tier prep school where the students are basically geniuses, versus a vocational school where you get kids who are... well, decent enough, I guess.🤷
Do you all honestly believe their success—or lack thereof—rests entirely on the shoulders of the teacher in charge of the subject?😕

And honestly, textbooks? Good grief.🤦
It feels like whoever was teaching this person English back in elementary or high school might have had a particularly rough instructor, maybe.😳

Because, naturally, the forum user is never the one at fault, right?☕

and I honestly don't even have a full grasp of what's actually going on here, I just know that I can't bring myself to agree with it at all. 😁

Susan James said:Personally, I never said I had a "don't care" attitude.
If someone interpreted my words differently, there isn't much I can do about that.

My stance is simply that homework should be finished during after-school care. I'd love for my child to be able to just relax and enjoy free time or extracurricular activities once they get home around 4:00 PM.
With that in mind, I don't feel the need to micromanage how things were handled at the program; I expect the staff—whom I'm paying for through my taxes and program fees—to do their jobs.
I don't feel guilty about delegating homework to someone else so that I don't have to struggle through it with my child after work.

Of course, I haven't shut the door on my child coming to me to chat about her day, what she learned, or what made her happy. And if she asks for my help because the teacher didn't quite get to it or she felt too shy to ask, I'm there.
I'm not so crazy that I'd tell her, "Stop, I don't care about that." But I won't be going out of my way to grill her about schoolwork, nor do I feel the need to see textbooks spread out all over the table more than I already did back in preschool.
That's just how I plan to set expectations with my child before she starts the after-school program.

Susan James said:Most parents drop their kids off at after-school care because a seven-year-old simply can't be left home alone, especially if they live near busy highways where parents don't feel comfortable letting them stay by themselves. And let's be real, a seven-year-old isn't going to suddenly remember to sit down and tackle their homework on their own.

I think it’s pretty unfair to label parents as "bad" or try to make them feel guilty just because they work until 5:00 PM and rely on someone else to help with homework.
Honestly, I’d much rather worry about schoolwork than have preschool teachers being the ones to teach a child how to use a spoon, wipe their nose, or put their shoes away. Those basic hygiene and self-care habits are essential, and in reality, that's often what happens in childcare settings.
Not every parent has the bandwidth or the specific expertise to act as a tutor for school subjects, and they shouldn't have to. But they definitely should be the ones handling those fundamental life skills.
Yet, we see kids picking up so many of these habits in daycare/preschool, often more consistently than at home. It's not necessarily because parents aren't trying—most certainly are—it's just a matter of math: kids spend 8 to 10 hours in a structured environment and maybe only 4 or 5 waking hours with their parents.
At the end of the day, our kids are somewhat institutionalized, regardless of what anyone says about it.
And that's simply because parents have jobs to go to.
I don't think any sane person would quit their job or take extended unpaid leave just to sit with their child and finish homework every single afternoon.

Susan James said:Well, it really depends on what kind of "extra" work we're talking about.
If they're the only kid who needs extra practice on something, and doing it would interrupt everyone else playing on the playground, or participating in drama club, sports, or whatever, then I can see where they're coming from.
If it’s something meant for advanced students, or if it occasionally involves family members—like collecting old family photos or storytelling—then I get that too.
Anything else? Not really (except maybe once a month if someone truly fell behind).

I'm not sure what she should have said to her kid, but personally, I'd start by asking what they did in class that didn't get finished.
If they didn't actually do homework during school hours that day, but were doing something else instead, I'd weigh how important that other activity was. If needed, I'd just reach out to the teacher to check in on the student's well-being or the workload.

If third graders aren't doing homework during school hours, then they don't really have anything to do there. In my opinion, a nine-year-old doesn't need a babysitter.
And if homework is waiting five hours after the bell rings, it definitely makes no sense. It completely kills any good study habits, especially if they worked hard to establish those routines in first and second grade to get things done right after lunch.😕

you can't seem to avoid making comments like that in any thread, really...👎

The core of what I was saying wasn't meant to trigger anyone's guilt or to defend some imaginary scenario where homework isn't getting done in daycare or a teacher isn't doing her job. 🤦

Good grief, has anyone here actually questioned the after-school staff's competence?😕

To reiterate: the point is simply that parents should engage with their children however possible, even if it means sitting down after a long shift at the office to explain how nature works or running through multiplication tables together.
The fact that many people don't do this isn't an attempt to make anyone feel bad, it's just a reality. And I guess those who do participate can't really be faulted for having a conscience.

And it always seems to happen that way—my words get totally misinterpreted.🤷
Maybe I should just be more blunt and explicit instead of being subtle, since being subtle clearly doesn't work.

How am I supposed to interpret a sentence like: "School is just a necessary evil anyway."
Or: "I don't really care about everything that happened in class; I have other interests."

😕

Perhaps you, Larry Walker24, would want to recount every single little detail—what they did during which period, what happened during recess—but what are you going to say to a teacher? "I'm too old for this, I don't care"?🤷

I've already mentioned that a parent should at least pretend to be interested in what's happening at school, even if they aren't truly invested in the specifics.

I mean, honestly, this whole thing will probably just blow over eventually; it’s not like an eighth grader is going to be obsessing over recounting every single tiny detail of their day forever, I guess.

It really doesn't have anything to do whatsoever with the teachers, their salaries, or how much they pay in local property taxes. 🙄
They should just focus on doing their actual jobs, while parents need to handle their own part of the equation, whatever that happens to look like at any given moment.

I can't say for certain that I've quite grasped the core point you're making in your post.
It might just be that I was being a bit too superficial in my reading, I suppose.🙂

Chloe Roberts2 said:

I'm staying in after-school care because both my dad and I work until 5:00. Period.

So, what you're saying is, you think the after-school teachers are just glorified babysitters?

No.

I don't think I ever actually wrote that, so maybe I'm just misreading things again, or perhaps there's some sort of subtext I'm completely missing here... I guess.🤔😕🤷

oh boy.🤦
it looks like I might actually need to switch over to another language after all.🤷

thankfully, I don't think I'll have to deal with repeating myself much longer.🙏>
so, here goes—just a few more points that matter from my perspective, if anyone cares:
1. occasionally stepping in to help out with homework doesn't necessarily mean someone is acting like a total control freak.😉
2. the way some parents seem completely checked out regarding what their first graders are actually learning in class... I don't know, it feels a little off to me.
3. I am fully in favor of prioritizing downtime, physical activity, hanging out with family, or just letting them go to extracurriculars after school finishes up.
4. and honestly, choosing one doesn't mean you can't do the other; they aren't mutually exclusive.
5. I can't help but wonder how much time parents are actually spending engaging with their kids after work or school, versus just sitting there in front of the TV, a computer, or a book or whatever else.
6. It strikes me as pretty wild that a school would view having a psychologist on staff as a "necessary evil." If we're talking about necessary evils, then after-school programs are probably higher on that list, since they mostly exist so kids aren't just left home alone half the day—helping with homework is really just a side benefit. And I think parents should be upfront about that with their kids: you're in after-school care because Mom and Dad are working until 5:00. Period.

over and out.

silentraven6 said:Isn't it actually better to get dyslexia and dysgraphia diagnosed as early as possible so we can actually see better results?

I wouldn't just brush an observation like that aside. There's absolutely no shame in it, and I certainly hope teachers aren't such idiots that they go tossing diagnoses around like candy just because they feel like messing around :jivivaljdaubajci:

We aren't even talking about kids with special needs here; we're talking about the 80 percent of healthy kids for whom this curriculum was designed. They should be perfectly capable of mastering the material on their own—that’s literally what education is for.

urbantinker8, I don't think anyone is suggesting we act indifferent or take an "I don't give a damn" attitude. There are much better ways to help than just staring intensely at a first-grader's homework or textbooks. I'm thinking of more creative, almost out-of-the-box things—like practicing simple poems or breaking down syllables through play while you're out driving in the van. You could point out different trees, talk about spring flowers, discuss environmental conservation, or recycling. Or even just counting change while a cashier rings up your groceries. It's those kinds of things you can easily weave into everyday life.

And just ask them how their day went, or if they learned anything new...

Though... honestly, maybe we should even let those questions slide sometimes right after they get home. Just give them some downtime to decompress, let them do whatever they want, climb trees, and just be kids.

I am completely on the same page as you, and I think I’ve said this a dozen times now: the idea of sitting down every single day to micromanage every single letter in a child's homework is something that never even crossed my mind.
But people here seem to love caricaturing things to the point of absurdity.☕
Your examples are perfectly reasonable.
The big question, I suppose, is how many parents actually do that on a regular basis, versus how many just sit down in front of the TV after work and don't say a word to their kids.

nosorog, you definitely need a translator, because I honestly have no clue where you read in my posts that talking about school or occasionally helping with homework somehow excludes physical activity, going to the park, or hitting the pool? Where did I ever write that a parent absolutely has to every single day write out every single assignment with their child and then double-check it all over again?🤔🤦

It's just a bit exhausting to read this from one parent, especially someone who is somehow connected to the American education system:

Susan James said:In that case, absolutely!
I think that sounds great 👍

Call me NASA, because I honestly don't feel the need to stay informed about every single little thing being taught in class.
Simply put, my brain doesn't have the bandwidth for all that data.
I'm a bit older now, work too much, and there are other things on my mind.

Whatever my kid tells me (if she feels like sharing), I'm totally fine with that.
Even back in preschool, she'd tell me about her day, show me something, or I'd catch a glimpse of something on the parent portal or an individual progress report. As long as I can see my child is making progress, that's what matters most to me.
And plenty of stuff goes completely unnoticed by me anyway.
That's basically how I approach school, too.

Yep, call me irresponsible.
I know, I know—comparing elementary school to preschool is a bit of a stretch.

(On a side note, my boss still micromanages everything my kids do, from starting school all the way through college 🥳 even though she's a liberal arts major and he's more of a STEM guy 🙂)

Not to mention the idea that school is a "necessary evil."😕

So feel free to bring in your lawyers or anyone else who agrees with you; to me, most of your stances still seem pretty unbelievable.🕺

Michelle Nelson4 said:I was simply sharing my thoughts on how much time a parent should dedicate to discussing the curriculum with their child during first grade. Surely there is a distinction between talking about the actual academic material and discussing general school events that aren't strictly part of the lessons.

And yes, I do believe that by the time someone finishes elementary school, they should already have a grasp of the fundamentals—something they could perhaps brush up on with a quick glance at a textbook, as it's generally expected that they know it. Especially the stuff from the lower grades.

At no point did I imply that we should "abolish elementary school" just because I personally don't need to attend it anymore, right? Makes perfect sense... 🤦

I guess you just completely missed the mark on that whole football thing.😉

I suppose my main point is that a parent shouldn't really be taking a stance like, "I honestly couldn't care less about your homework; just get it done during after-school programs, have the instructors check it, and leave your backpack at school because I have much more important things to worry about."

I guess you definitely wouldn't want to do that right before the first graders arrive, maybe.

I guess it isn't really about whether a parent actually knows the material or if they're totally lost when it comes to the curriculum, I suppose. It’s probably more complicated than that.🤦

Michelle Nelson4 said:I honestly believe that an hour over the weekend is more than enough time for any busy adult to glance through a child's schoolwork from the past week. You can easily spot any major mistakes in their notebook, and if you just ask a few well-placed questions to have them "explain" the lesson back to you, you'll quickly realize how much they actually grasp.
I mean, what am I supposed to do with an hour every single day? Sit there and lecture them on how to write the letter A or which seasons come after winter? No way, that's just not happening.
Besides, my plan is to skim through the entire year's textbook in about thirty minutes at the start of the term—and that's for five different subjects. Even then, I should be able to get a decent handle on what needs to be mastered within the curriculum.
That’s pretty much my take on the whole elementary school experience and the actual "depth" of knowledge being taught there...

Honestly, why does everyone feel the need to exaggerate things like this?🙄

No, I’m not suggesting we should all sit around for an hour a day talking about the alphabet, but then again, I also don't think having maybe an hour of conversation about school once a week—you know, during those precious weekends—is quite enough, either.

And it’s just funny to me how everyone seems to be an absolute expert on every single subject taught in elementary school.
Maybe we should just hold a national referendum to abolish the whole thing, since clearly, it's just not needed at all.🙂 🙏

I was really just zeroing in on what silentraven6 mentioned—that she’s more interested in other things and basically views school as just this necessary evil you have to get through.

I know we all tend to ask, "So, how was school today?" but I feel like a lot of people just ask out of pure habit, and they’re actually relieved when a kid just says, "It was fine," because then the conversation is over.
To me, that doesn't really count as an actual "conversation about school."🤷

I’m not trying to single anyone out here, because I don't want anyone jumping down my throat or taking this personally.😁
I’m just speaking in general terms, I guess.

Karen Richardson3 said:I know I’m totally out of my depth here, like a deer in headlights, 😁 but I think her point was just that it’s perfectly fine for a kid to tell you what’s on their mind or ask whatever questions they have, plus you still show up to those PTA meetings to stay in the loop, rather than feeling like you need to obsess over every single tiny lesson just to keep up with the whole curriculum.

It’s just like back in daycare; if the kid tells you about something that really stressed them out or something they thought was super cool, that’s enough, right? You shouldn't feel pressured to know every single minute detail of what they did all day.

Did I actually say somewhere that you need to know every single second of what they're doing?🤷
As far as I can recall, I didn't even suggest you had to go through every individual lesson, heaven forbid.

This is more about having a general attitude toward school or daycare.

If a child sees that you aren't interested in what they're learning at all, and you have zero desire to help them with their homework—and let's be honest, there are plenty of parents out there who couldn't care less, especially on weekends when the textbooks are basically just cluttering up the house—and if you treat school like it's some sort of necessary evil, then obviously they aren't going to be interested either.
That's where all the negativity toward school starts, I guess.
In first grade, it might not seem like a huge deal, but looking at things long-term... it probably is.

Susan James said:In that case, absolutely!
I think that sounds great 👍

Call me NASA, because I honestly don't feel the need to stay informed about every single little thing being taught in class.
Simply put, my brain doesn't have the bandwidth for all that data.
I'm a bit older now, work too much, and there are other things on my mind.

Whatever my kid tells me (if she feels like sharing), I'm totally fine with that.
Even back in preschool, she'd tell me about her day, show me something, or I'd catch a glimpse of something on the parent portal or an individual progress report. As long as I can see my child is making progress, that's what matters most to me.
And plenty of stuff goes completely unnoticed by me anyway.
That's basically how I approach school, too.

Yep, call me irresponsible.
I know, I know—comparing elementary school to preschool is a bit of a stretch.

(On a side note, my boss still micromanages everything my kids do, from starting school all the way through college 🥳 even though she's a liberal arts major and he's more of a STEM guy 🙂)

I won't be calling you NASA 😁 but, while I get that parents might not feel a need to dive deep into, say, elementary science or social studies, when it comes to a first grader, you just have to show some interest, whether you actually want to or not.

I mean, what kind of message are you sending if the kid sees that you couldn't care less about their shoes, let alone the curriculum, or whether they actually understood the lesson or even what they did at school that day?🤷

Since you already drew a comparison between school and preschool... it's the exact same thing when it comes to showing "interest."
I've always felt that uninterested or unhappy parents—the ones who view preschool as nothing more than a necessary evil or just a place to "drop off" kids without seeing any actual value in it—tend to raise uninterested and unhappy children who end up crying every single morning before heading to school.
And maybe even longer than that.😳

silentraven6 said:Checking homework... I’m just not really following the logic here.

I mean, sure, if a kid doesn't know an answer, they should show it. But checking it just to correct it on the spot?

Isn't a teacher's actual job to grade the work? Isn't the whole point of learning to make mistakes, then getting constructive feedback from the instructor who assigned the task in the first place?

And honestly, I don't see the sense in leaving their backpack behind either. Our kid will be bringing their bag home with them; let them pack what they need every morning. It gives them that mindset that they're actually heading to school, not just going on some field trip.

I don't really mean obsessively checking every single detail from A to Z, but rather just that specific thing: if a kid asks you to walk them through a problem or explain a concept, maybe you just do it.
It probably won't happen every single day or for every subject, and honestly, the sooner they learn to fly on their own, the better it is for everyone involved—both for the kid and for you, I suppose.

But if the textbooks just sit there in the living room and nothing actually happens, you aren't getting any real feedback at all, other than just seeing a grade on a report card once in a while.