Daniel Chase13 said:A university philosophy professor is making quite a suggestion: Evolution and Darwinism ought to be removed from American school curricula.
“(…) many Catholics in America really ought to take a hard look at this and ask themselves whether they’ll continue to tolerate their children being forced to memorize Darwinian explanations for the origin of life—explanations that, as Thomas Nagel so decisively puts it, are simply wrong and unacceptable. Furthermore, Darwinism becomes particularly dangerous when its core tenets are applied to society and morality as a whole, giving rise to Social Darwinism—which feels like nothing more than a new version of a universal secular religion.”
What kind of science professor is this guy?
Honestly, I'm not even surprised. Not to repeat myself, but there's an open thread on Politics about this, and someone even suggested starting separate schools for boys and girls. Mark and his crew are getting worked up again, and who knows what the next few years will bring, but with her around, things definitely won't be boring. Basically, instead of heading toward Europe and civilization, we're slowly and surely drifting back into the Dark Ages.
Btw, not all Catholics are creationists. If I recall correctly, even Vatican City has acknowledged evolution and called the creationism in the Bible metaphorical. I wonder what believers like that have to say about this?
Is our country even functioning if government officials can just take orders from priests whenever they feel like it? We’re honestly becoming a bit of a joke...
Think about it—we’re all basically footing the bill for an institution that spends its time belittling women, attacking anyone with a different opinion, and telling atheists they're headed straight to hell. Not to mention how they cover up for predators in their own ranks while manipulating kids. Is there any limit to this nonsense? 😝
I honestly don't get why parents should even care if these extra sessions are paid or not. That's really just a matter between the teachers and the principal. If anything, maybe this will finally push some educators to speak up against the total mess of cramming everything in whenever and wherever they feel like. At our school, religious studies is always the first or last period, which is actually a win. The downside? Those early morning study sessions on days when religious studies is the first period. It just means kids are running wild through the hallways. They were hanging out in the library today, which was great. Last year, the library was constantly closed, so they’d just be causing chaos in the halls. Then someone eventually kicked them out because apparently having a draft in the hallway would make them sick. So, they ended up hiding in the bathrooms. Hearing that gave me the chills, but hey, what can you do?
Susan James said:Maybe try joining forces with some bigger nearby cities or just organize something yourselves.
There are plenty of cities on the list: New York, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Diego, St. Louis someone else feel free to add more to the list 🎉
@dlapek, I’d honestly rather just delete your post (which is why I won't quote you 😬), because he clearly isn't going to figure this out on his own—it took him five whole days just to make an announcement—but his "superiors" or the school board officials might be able to help.
But hey, he's a "genius"... the reform is already running late, and he can't even string five coherent sentences together in five days. And don't even get me started on the issue of people's paid expenses.
Man, if my hometown were closer, I’d be all over it. I just don't feel right wandering around unfamiliar territory.
Have you ever actually lived in a tiny town? Around here, the biggest event we can pull off is a parade to show off new manicures and eyelash extensions, or maybe a little outdoor prayer circle to support Marquette and her crowd... :-(
Honestly? I don’t care about the warning. Go ahead and ban me permanently if you have to. My only real regret is that my post will get deleted, so nobody can see where I'm coming from. I'm just tired of being lectured about "political correctness." It's exhausting.
My old school teacher used to say things like, "Oh, I know how hard it is for you working folks to make it, so don't worry—if I had anything useful to say, I'd be calling you already..." And then you've got these bureaucrats from the Department of Education—people who have never actually felt the pressure of putting food on the table or supporting a family in this country—looking down their noses at us. They act like our only goal in life is to make things difficult for teachers and mess up our own kids' futures.
It's pathetic.
So yeah, go ahead and ban me for having an opinion. It doesn't bother me much. Honestly, it says way more about the people doing the banning than it does about me.
urbantinker8 said:I mean, I guess I'm not so sure. We've heard quite a bit regarding your teacher, I suppose. It seems like there isn't a single thread where she doesn't come up, which is why she stuck in my mind.😁 It’s like everything she does is somehow wrong.
So, give me your honest take: what do we think about a teacher who hasn't updated the online gradebook in an entire month? All the other teachers have been posting their grades perfectly on time, so we can pretty much rule out any tech glitches with the school portal.
Oh, I get it... She probably didn't finish because... (fill in the blank, but let's be real, it's likely those crazy parents). Poor thing...
I guess you somehow missed all the times I mentioned how wonderful some of our educators are. But hey, the second someone points out one bad apple, it's like everyone starts a war. :-P
wanderingbadger44 said:If she was going to bring her up in the first place, why go through all that extra effort to justify it and claim it wasn't an ad hominem attack?
I wonder, if I were actually sitting down to give my kid a real talk about life, whether they would even be able to wrap their head around where I stand on all these things. 🤣
It feels like you’d just tell me whatever I wanted to hear, offering up all the right words just so you could finally be done with me. 😁 That’s exactly what I’m getting at here.
Quincy:
If anyone else had stuffed a bunch of flashlight salesmen and hair stylists into the same post, people would be busy nitpicking over some grand, pseudo-intellectual lecture on the "sanctity of illumination." But because it’s coming from you, you get away with it. It feels like a clever little metaphor, but honestly, it just comes off as pretty hypocritical.
I honestly don't have the energy to get into a heated debate with you right now, though I would gladly spend my time searching for just one single sentence or even a tiny hint in my words where I suggest that education itself holds some kind of sacred status. But since I can't find the motivation to go looking for something that isn't there, I think I'll just let it be.
I’ve spent a long time trying to drive home just how damaging it is to put teachers on such a pedestal, constantly reminding people that they aren't some kind of modern-day Jesus figure. I’ve tried to shatter those silly myths—like the idea that educators are somehow these flawless, ethereal beings who don't deal with basic human realities like bodily functions or physical struggles. It's the same way I've fought against the misguided notion that every single child is a hidden genius waiting to be discovered; true brilliance isn't something you can just hand out like candy, because if everyone is a prodigy, then the very concept of genius loses all its meaning.
At the end of the day, any kind of idealization acts like a veil that prevents us from seeing the world for what it actually is, which eventually does more harm than good. 😉
If you were actually teaching my kid, you wouldn't have to worry about me being a burden. Trust me, I'm not about to waste my energy walking on eggshells just to protect some massive ego.
wanderingbadger44 said:Actually, that isn't how it works at all. You clearly missed the point of what I was saying.
I don't have the option to dodge my taxes, whereas the corporate world can—and frequently does.
Feel free to take shots at my sweet disposition if you need to; honestly, it doesn't bother me one bit.
It’s honestly a little surreal to me that I have to break down such fundamental concepts for grown adults. My approach is pretty simple: I aim to minimize stress, drama, and unnecessary friction at work. I consider myself a pragmatic organism that adapts to its environment, much like pure Darwinism in action. I perform my duties to the best of my ability and exactly as required, even in those moments where I am certain that following orders is actually counterproductive and that things should be done differently. But I refuse to burn myself at the stake of some grand Ideal.
I'm not under any illusion that I am superior, more brilliant, or more virtuous than anyone else just because I happen to be an educator, nor do I believe that being a teacher carries some noble, heavy burden to fight for a New World or a specific Order.
For real change to happen, society needs to genuinely crave actual knowledge and skill rather than just chasing grades. Until I see a true hunger for that, and until I am given the autonomy and the resources to actually implement it—and I truly believe that both the knowledge and the capability exist within me and my colleagues, even if exceptions exist in every field, much like how one difficult parent can skew the perception of an entire group—only then will I commit myself to that mission. Until then, I do what I am told and how I am told to do it. If I deviate, I face consequences. I have no desire for trouble, regardless of how much others might moralize about my choices.
To put it in perspective: I’m going to cut and color a client's hair exactly the way they ask for it.
Does anyone ever blame a stylist who looks at a client with already fried and damaged hair and calmly mixes a bleach that will undoubtedly weaken it even further? Does anyone expect a stylist to say, "Ma'am, that platinum blonde look doesn't suit your skin tone or your age, and since I am a trained professional, please listen to me and choose a shorter style that fits your face shape and hair quality; I'm sorry, but I refuse to bleach and flat-iron you because it goes against my professional ethics"?
If she actually said that, she wouldn't have a business left. So, she cuts and colors exactly as requested, makes sure to compliment the final result, and sends a satisfied customer out the door. Because, quite simply, she wants to survive.
Oh, it does fill. Between all the drama and the shady stuff, they still have to balance the books. Believe whatever you want.
Since you aren't trying to lecture my kid, frankly, I couldn't care less about your attitude. You're the one sticking your nose into their business.
If anyone else had thrown in a bunch of talk about educators and hairstylists into this thread, we'd be reading some grand manifesto about "holy enlightenment" right now. When you do it, it's just a metaphorical explanation. It's honestly pretty funny and hypocritical.
wanderingbadger44 said:I’m sorry, but why should I care about that? Do you honestly think I give a damn about boosting the profits of some local betting parlor, a coffee shop, or a retail store that loves to pretend they represent the "backbone of the economy," when it’s in the best interest of parents and society at large to invest in education? Heh...
Even though I don't care, I still know. For instance, I know that most of these private business owners who claim to be the "real sector" are just paying minimum wage, dodging taxes by not issuing receipts unless forced, and relying on government child tax credits to get by—and trust me, we could talk about that all day. Plus, most of them are convinced they're working harder than I am while I just sit around on vacation doing nothing.
The idea of a "productive sector" in a country where we don't actually manufacture anything and mostly just trade goods back and forth is laughable. Most of those businesses are just finding ways to dodge the IRS and run cash under the table.
And whatever applies to me applies to them. If people want to lecture me about joining the "real sector," then I’ll invite the real sector into our schools—to enjoy three-month summer breaks and coast along on taxpayer money.
I really love your comparison regarding selling products or services below market value. 😁 No regulatory agency in this country is ever going to order you to sell something at a loss or provide a service for less than it's worth. Not one of them. 😉 That’s why we just offer them for free ahead of time. Cheers to the straight-A students.
Actually, you *should* care. Because that "real sector" is exactly what fills the federal budget that pays your salary. Unless, of course, you work at some fancy private academy—but based on how you carry yourself here, I highly doubt it (not an ad hominem attack, just knowing how things work in the private sector). The rest of your post just feels like you trying way too hard to act smart and superior to everyone else.
So, the inspectors are finding that you're handing out grades like candy? Is that it? Are they ordering you to give an A to a kid who hasn't studied a lick just because the parents asked? If that's the case, then you should probably wonder why any kid even gets a grade lower than an A anymore...
wanderingbadger44, you keep bringing up the fact that you work for money, which basically means you consider yourself a professional. But do you actually get what that implies in the real world? In any actual industry, you give it your absolute best because if you don't, you're getting fired. Period. Your work is subject to performance reviews, government audits, and if you seriously screw up, you could be facing a massive lawsuit. If you mess up badly enough, your peers will rightfully tell you to go work on a ranch instead of dragging the whole profession down when we should be looking out for each other. Plus, a client or a business partner is someone you respect—they're the ones paying your bills! That doesn't mean you just hand over subpar work just because they asked for it, though. There’s plenty more to say, but honestly, none of that seems to show up in your posts. All I see is this constant disdain for everyone else. And let's be real, what are the odds that you're the only genius in the room while every single parent out there is just some idiot? I think it's better if we just leave it at that... ☕
In schools out in the smaller towns, you don't really deal with that headache. :-P Honestly, parents might think whatever they want, but nobody actually has the guts to speak up. Everyone just sits there, nodding along and playing nice during those PTA meetings.
silentraven6 said:How many of you would actually show up if things really went down?
I’m just asking, honestly—trying to gauge if there's enough momentum here to even get a protest off the ground. I haven't seen any signs of a teacher's strike brewing over this yet, but maybe we could be the ones to kick things off? There are plenty of us out there.
Man, life is just one big joke sometimes... I don't think I'd actually make it out, but would a massive donation of rotten eggs count toward my contribution? 😠
Jacob Lewis5 said:Done. The lady I spoke to—not sure exactly what her role is—told me something like this: they always try to schedule religion for the first or last period (you can see from looking at schedules that they do try), but sometimes it's just not possible, and there are also certain classes where everyone takes it. The kids are never left unsupervised.
I didn't say it *never* happens; I just said I don't buy the anecdotal stuff people post on forums. Especially when that's being used as the main argument for getting rid of religion classes altogether. I'm asking questions and doing my homework. Based on my chat with the woman at the school I mentioned earlier (the one Jason Ortiz5 knows about), I didn't run into any of the misunderstanding or pushiness people claim happens here.
So, you don't trust the experiences shared on a forum, but you totally trust some polite voice on the phone from someone you don't even know—could be the secretary, could be the cafeteria lady—who would probably just tell you they don't care either way? I'm not buying it...
brisknomad13 said:Right now, this crowd still treats Christian values like gospel. As soon as that shifts, they’ll probably just rewrite the laws to match their new version of the truth.
Sorry, but are we even living in the same country? Because if this is what passes for "Christian values" in America, then something is seriously rotten at the core of this nation.
Jacob Lewis5 said:Losing jobs for religious instructors isn't some "win"—it’s a loss for their families, their spending power, the whole GDP... Comparing "scheduling gaps" versus respecting diversity, maintaining the educational mission, and saving jobs... is such a wild clash of priorities. You’re acting like a gap in a timetable is the end of the world, while I honestly can't believe you're even using that as an argument. It's not even about a "gap," because the Department of Education issued a directive stating these classes have to be first or last period anyway... and so far, there's zero proof they aren't following it. Plus, calling it a gap when nothing is actually missing just shows how shaky your logic is. Then you drop terms like absurd amounts of money... heavy stuff. It’s not absurd; we aren't talking about billions here, and it’s not even a negative thing if that money ends up in the pockets of American citizens who then spend it right here in the States. And please, walk me through this part about the "abuse of school authority." I'm all ears.
So a gap in the schedule isn't proven? Give me a break! Who knows why my kid is missing class when they're just wandering around halfway through the day! 😲 Plus, the teacher won't even protect them since she doesn't tell me when my kid is cutting class, nor does she mark them absent... 😛
Henry Cox78 said:That’s exactly what people like you want, isn't it? Let's be real—it's not just about religious studies being a thorn in your side. All this talk about "discrimination" and other sappy nonsense is just a smokescreen for your own intolerance toward faith. Honestly, everyone should have religious education classes so people can actually learn how to love and tolerate one another. That's the only way we'll thrive as a society.👍
Oh boy, forcing religious education on everyone would be the ultimate irony when it comes to "love and tolerance." And I'm sure society would just blossom overnight...
Henry Cox78 said:So you're basically saying we should scrap religious studies just because kids who skip it get a free period to hang out in class and mess around? And now that downtime is considered "discrimination" against them? 😁 It would be hilarious to actually ask those kids if they feel discriminated against or if they just think they hit the jackpot. These modern totalitarians love wrapping themselves in the flag of human rights, tossing the word "discrimination" around left and right just to persecute anyone with different beliefs. Real discrimination is stripping away rights—which is exactly what you're doing by suggesting we stop religious education just because you think schools should only be job training centers rather than places that actually prepare kids for life.
Look, schools are supposed to educate and prepare kids for the workforce. But "character building" shouldn't mean forcing personal beliefs on everyone, especially when some people act like their specific views are somehow "better" than everyone else's.
But hey, we totally fell for all that broken politics, and now we're stuck here. Watch out, shadowy elites, we're coming for ya... 😛
brisknomad13 said:I've said it all, but apparently, people just skip over the answers.
The Elementary and Secondary Education Act says in Article 4: Article 4. (1) The goals of education in school institutions are: 1. to ensure a systematic way of teaching students, encouraging and improving their intellectual, physical, aesthetic, social, moral, and spiritual development in accordance with their abilities and inclinations, 2. to develop students' awareness of national belonging, preserving historical-cultural heritage, and national identity....(cut)
Like you can see, educational goals are broad, but the part that actually matters here is the bolded bit. That’s where the Catholic Church stepped in, offering the kind of upbringing they promote (universal and faith-based values) and letting kids get an education "in accordance with their abilities and inclinations"—for the parents who actually want that. By the way, over 80% of people in the last census identified as Catholic, and since schools aren't neutral bystanders but actual formative institutions, having Catholic instruction has legal, universal, and moral ground to exist as a subject.
Bringing religion back into schools wasn't some dictatorship move; it happened because the political party that won the American elections put it there. That option was chosen by the citizens of the US. Then came the Vatican Treaty, and the Constitution has a clause protecting freedom of religion.
It was a historic chance for the people to decide the quality of education for their own kids. I mean, who else gets to decide how kids are raised if not the people—the majority? I don't have anything against Protagoras or brisknomad13 making up their own curriculum, or some feminist group doing the same. If they meet the criteria for an elective, sure, let the kids whose parents want it take the class.
So, religion returned to the classroom after decades, allowing for that "moral and spiritual development based on inclinations and abilities," plus education on national identity (though that happens in other classes too). It all lines up with the Law, the Constitution, and the Vatican Treaty.
If a minority finds that annoying, there's not much they can do right now. If the majority is unhappy, they can go through the proper channels to change the legal framework.
As for funding or how many hours are assigned to it, if this model isn't cutting it, then that's something that needs to be worked on.
Are you being serious right now? Just the other day, there was talk about introducing something like "World Religions" in elementary schools as an alternative to religious ed. You should have seen the Church and all its followers; they absolutely lost their minds just hearing the idea mentioned...
Chloe Roberts2 said:Sorry, I’m not quite following you there.
It’s funny how it works. During the week when K-12 schools are in session—and all those teachers are basically getting their government paychecks to handle church business—there’s plenty of room at the church. But then the weekend rolls around and suddenly everyone decides they need to cram into the pews at once.