Posts by stormybadger8

Jason Campbell70 said:^^^^

When I was mocking Horner, claiming Red Bull would end up with the same mess McLaren had back in '07, you didn't buy it. 😁

No, I really didn't. Seriously, damn it, Jason Campbell70, Red Bull blew the drivers' title last year too because—unlike Brawn—they didn't have a clear hierarchy within the team.😉

My post above was written right after China, which means about a month before Turkey and before any of the internal Red Bull drama actually exploded. 😳

Ever since last year, it was obvious things were going to get messy between Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber, and there was zero chance the Horner-Marko-Mathezic trio would notice, let alone fix it.

Another thing: I was praying Sebastian Vettel could just sort this out himself. Sadly, he couldn't. Between the early season mechanical failures and just plain bad luck, everything eventually went straight down the drain.😢

And hey, the future looks bright . If we can't solve the problem, I guess they'll just have to 🙂

God, what an idiot 🤦

And look, I'm honestly convinced it works the other way around: even if Sebastian Vettel had a points lead over Mark Webber, there still wouldn't be any difference in how Red Bull operates.

But obviously, Mark Webber wouldn't let Sebastian Vettel pass him. There isn't a theoretical chance of that happening, nor is there anyone in the team who would allow it.

Roger Wright94 said:@ TBF
I agree with everything you said. You're spot on. Every person I know around here would say the same thing.

Only one thing: your take on how Red Bull is handling their issues—you think they're pretending the problem doesn't exist.
They aren't pretending. They just can't fix it. It's been happening for a while now. They're stuck, and things have spiraled out of their control.

There is zero favoritism toward Sebastian Vettel at Red Bull. If there were, Mark Webber would be sitting right where Felipe Massa is.

That’s exactly my point. They haven't found the cause, and they haven't fixed the cause.

Until they do, things aren't going to get better.

Look at this:

stormybadger8 said:Personally, I'd love to see Sebastian Vettel win, but I honestly think Horner and his crew are going to screw it all up. My gut tells me Red Bull is going to make even bigger mistakes this season than they did last year.😢

The dumbest part? I feel like Sebastian Vettel could win the title in basically any other team—McLaren, MGP, Ferrari, Renault, Williams, maybe even STR or FI—but he won't do it at Red Bull.😢

In fact, I think they'll be fighting for it until the final race, and then they'll mess up and let Mark Webber snatch those points away from him. Mark won't do it all season, who knows, but in that final race, when it matters most, he'll pull it off.

Even someone as clueless as me saw it coming at the start of the season. They're going to blow it just like last year, and they still don't even realize where they went wrong.🤦

Okay, so I didn't nail every single detail, but you see? I knew the Webber situation would be a disaster, and I knew they wouldn't be able to fix the car.

Gary Palmer8 said:Not really... Button probably just had an extra lap's worth of fuel, which let him push at max for one more lap.

Unfortunately, under these rules, they reward playing it safe while punishing anyone actually trying to fight for position...

Look, I can't say for sure, but we know Button was faster on track right then. We know he gave Hamilton space, and we know he didn't shove Hamilton off or block him.

We also know Button carries himself like a seasoned veteran, unlike Webber.

Sebastian Vettel and Hamilton are both just young guns.

Those two situations are identical, except Button actually respects his team and his teammate, whereas Webber clearly doesn't.

Joshua Newman2 said:Like I said before, the only thing people have against Webber is that he turned out to be a better driver than expected and didn't step aside for his "favored" teammate—who also happened to be his direct title rival—even when he had the points lead and was leading the race.

Case closed. 🙏

@joža - sorry if I'm letting you down, but my beef with TBFD isn't personal, so there's zero chance I'm going to start swearing, insulting anyone, or throwing tantrums. 😁

Gilbert, you forgot to mention the "faster teammate" part.

Look, Sebastian Vettel hadn't made a single driving error up to that point—he just had mechanical issues.
Sebastian Vettel was clearly faster than Mark Webber at that moment in the race; if you don't see that, you're blind.
If he wasn't faster, he wouldn't have caught him, and that overtake attempt wouldn't have even happened. ☕

The problem is Webber drove that duel like he was in a McLaren instead of a Red Bull.
Look, I get why he did it, but I don't get Horner. He let Sebastian Vettel go for the move on Webber without warning them both to watch their backs.
There are two ways he could've handled it:
A. Sebastian Vettel "save fuel," "watch the engine, it's dying," or whatever code translates to "don't overtake Webber."
B. Sebastian Vettel is faster than you, watch out so you don't do something stupid; don't ram each other or you'll get hit with massive penalties.

Horner didn't do anything wrong. He knows both Webber and Sebastian Vettel, and it was obvious from the air that things were going to get messy. Everyone saw it coming except him.

Webber stubbornly defended his position using tactics you just don't use against anyone, let alone a teammate.
Sebastian Vettel went for the pass recklessly, trying to use the same intimidation tactics Webber had used on him—it was just stupid.

The main one to blame for this mess is Horner. Both Sebastian Vettel and Webber are equally at fault, but if you ask me, Webber carries more blame. If he hadn't been pushing him out, I don't think Sebastian Vettel would have gone for it. Honestly, he might not have even made the pass because who knows how he would've taken the corner? Gilbert, I can't shake the feeling that this whole crash was what Webber wanted; like he'd do absolutely anything to make sure they collided.

Also, you're spreading misinformation. Webber didn't have any points advantage over Sebastian Vettel.☕

In Turkey, they both had 78 points. Webber only has the lead after Turkey, and he has it solely because of Turkey.☕

Joshua Newman2 said:If I remind you that most experts and F1 fans agree Vettel caused that crash, you're just going to call me a troll and threaten to report my post. Go ahead, report me if it makes you feel better, but it won't make Webber any less innocent for what happened in Turkey.

Look, what's even the issue? Vettel caused that collision by jerking the wheel. There’s really no debate about it.😉
I'm telling you, everyone's still arguing over who actually caused that crash.

That’s the whole point. It’s about what triggered Sebastian Vettel's reaction and why it happened in the first place. His outburst was just the fallout from Mark Webber shoving him off the track and his own refusal to back down. 😉

Whenever you’re staring down a problem, fixing the fallout doesn't mean squat. You can spend forever patching up the consequences, but if you don't go after the actual root cause first, you're just spinning your wheels. Fix the source, or you'll be stuck dealing with the same mess forever.

That’s exactly why Red Bull is struggling. They still haven't actually nailed down the root cause. Instead of fixing the actual issue, they've just been playing whack-a-mole with the symptoms. They keep trying to patch up the fallout rather than solving the core problem, which is why we're seeing the same mess on repeat.
It’s actually even worse than that—they haven't dealt with the cause or the fallout. They're just pretending nothing happened.

rustystag7 said:What are you even talking about??? I’m talking about my own driving, man. For God's sake, the guy has the same number of wins as Sebastian Vettel, except Vettel snatched that clean win away from Lewis Hamilton because of that collision...

You can hate a driver all you want, but this kind of disrespect is insane. It's like we're talking about Ayrton Senna here.🙄

In Turkey, Webber beat Vettel in a clean win, not the other way around.☕

Back in the day, Schumacher wouldn't dream of letting a faster teammate like Nico Rosberg pass him during a race. But with Webber, it's always a problem. For months afterward, he just complains and demands that the faster driver brake on track to let the slower one through, just because he’s pissed about having fewer than those 25 points advantage he lost to his own teammate.

Look, in Turkey, Webber shouldn't have had to brake. He didn't need to slow down. All he really had to do was not shove Vettel into the grass and leave a gap to overtake—simple as that.

Lewis Hamilton got handed that win by McLaren's pit wall and a sensible Jenson Button, not by Webber or Vettel. Seriously, did you even watch the Turkey race?😬

If anyone is actually the No. 1 driver at Red Bull, it's Mark Webber.☕

Turkey—Webber is the slower guy on track,but the team stays dead silent.
His faster teammate catches up, and instead of letting him through, he crowds him off the line.
That idiot Vettel just yanks at the wheel to scare Webber—god, being young, green, and overconfident is a hell of a thing.🤦

Turkey—Hamilton is the slower driver on track, and the team tellsthe faster Jenson Buttonto just save fuel.☕

It’s blindingly obvious what a great day it is for Webber to be way closer to No. 1 status than Vettel.
Nobody even asked Webber to let Vettel past—even if they should have in Turkey for the sake of the team, or told Vettel to back off—the team didn't react at all.🤦
For months now, the media has been begging the faster Vettel to just let the slower Webber go.

You geniuses... Vettel basically has to spend half the season letting the slower Webber pass just because Webber refused to yield to the faster Vettel and snatched a 25-point lead.

Honestly, Felipe Massa acted just as idiotic in Germany as Webber did in Turkey; there's no difference, just proof that stupidity is contagious.☕
Unlike Red Bull, Ferrari handled their business loud and clear: "Alonso is faster than you, GET IT?"

Alonso was faster than Massa, period.
Now, that isn't fair, and I'm not making excuses for it. It’s not fair because according to the rules, you shouldn't do that, and by those same rules, Red Bull would be punished if they said anything like that to Webber in Turkey. It’s just not right that Ferrari gets away with it while everyone else isn't allowed.

Massa isn't a No. 2 driver; he's a joke. He hasn't been faster than Alonso all damn season—not even close. He was ahead of him once in Germany, and even then, he was slower.
Up until now, the only person he's been close to is a totally unmotivated, half-drunk Kimi Räikkönen, and that's it. He's never been close to anyone else, and he never will be again.☕

Frankly, I’d think the management at Ferrari was moronic if they let Massa hold Alonso up.
I feel the exact same way about the Red Bull leadership for stripping Webber of his right to hold back the faster Vettel. Unfortunately, that's just what I expected from the start of the season.👎

Pato, you’ve got beer, man—you’ve got a whole damn brewery here. 🙏

You saved me a ton of nerves and time. 🤣

Anyway, the situation was basically identical across all three teams this season. The difference is two of them sorted it out, and the third one didn't. ☕

In two cases, they handled it properly via team radio and all that. In one, the faster driver ended up ahead (Ferrari), and in another, he ended up behind (McLaren)—mostly because he stayed calm and realized his teammate was acting like a wild animal and it was going to cost them both points.
Sebastian Vettel's biggest mistake this season was simply not realizing that. He tried to overtake Mark Webber and completely blew it.

It's funny how every single crash this season involving Mark Webber and anyone else ends with the opponent being knocked out while Webber stays in the race. Honestly, it's like he practices crashing on a daily basis. 🙏 Since he already wiped out the rest of the title contenders (Vettel and Lewis Hamilton), it’s only fair he takes out Fernando Alonso in the final race too. 😂

Regarding that infamous wing, someone from Red Bull (I think it was Christian Horner) claimed Mark asked for his old wing back because the new one wasn't working for him!
He only started throwing tantrums and causing panic once he realized that was the case.
Interestingly, Webber never actually denied the claim that he didn't want the wing in the first place.

Personally, I totally get Webber. His actions make perfect sense to me. He doesn't have any other choice—he can't win a championship solely on his own driving talent, and he knows it. This whole mess is happening precisely because he needs Vettel to let him past every single race and keep the competition at bay.

The core issue is that Vettel doesn't understand how Red Bull actually operates. With Webber (probably just due to experience), things don't happen fast at Red Bull. Christian Horner won't dare make a snap decision because every major move follows this exact system:

Horner calls Matešić—asks what to do.
Matešić calls Mark—asks what he thinks.
Matešić calls the shareholders—asks what they think.
Matešić calls Mark—they say "we think X," then ask "what do you think about that?"
Matešić calls a marketing expert—asks how this will impact Red Bull sales in some random country.
Matešić calls Horner—tells him to do it this way.
Mark calls Horner—says "don't do it the way Matešić told you, do it this way instead."

And Horner still has absolutely no clue what he's doing. 😂

rustystag7, have you actually watched anyone this season besides your precious Felipe Massa?

Mark Webber isn't some crybaby. 🤣🤣🤣

What about all that whining regarding how he’s treated by the team? He hasn't had a single mechanical failure this season—not one damn thing went wrong in his pit box—unlike the absolute mountain of failures Sebastian Vettel has dealt with. Yebote, if the roles were reversed, I'm positive Mark Webber would have cried his way into dethroning the untouchable Fernando Alonso. 🙏

And don't even get me started on his whining in Korea. That guy isn't just a crybaby; he's actually using his position as head of the drivers' association to fuel his tantrums. 🙄
In the most important race of the year, he spins off the track like a rookie driver having their first go in Formula 1 🙄 and then has the nerve to start trash-talking his own team. 🙏

That race was peak entertainment for me, especially Lewis Hamilton’s response to Mark Webber’s complaining, basically saying: "I'm thinking about heading into the pits for some Slick tires" 🤣—I mean, it's a rainy race, people, what are we waiting for? 🙏

I might not even like little Lewis Hamilton, but he stays in my good books just because of that one comment. 🤣

Eto, here is how I see the alternate reality playing out:
Red Bull with Fernando Alonso and Mark Webber—they wouldn't even touch the constructors' title, let alone the driver's championship.
Ferrari with Felipe Massa and Sebastian Vettel—Sebastian Vettel wins the title without breaking a sweat.

Red Bull with Sebastian Vettel and Fernando Alonso—honestly, who knows, but they'd probably sweep both titles; the only question is which one takes the driver's trophy.
Ferrari with Mark Webber and Felipe Massa—please, give me a break. They'd be struggling behind Williams, assuming Felipe Massa ended up with a few more points than Mark Webber.

mistybear87 said:you guys just love to argue
The championship goes to whoever grabs the most points, not necessarily whoever deserves them most. Sometimes those two things line up, but it doesn't happen that often 🤣🤣

That’s just how sports work, and it's no different in Formula 1 😉

Give me a break, mistybear87. What would even be the point of this forum if we weren't all here arguing?🤣🤣🤣

Arguing is our job, and honestly, I consider it a privilege and a duty.😬🤣

I mean, imagine if we actually agreed on everything and every single thing we wrote turned out to be the official race results. Just a bunch of aces.😂

Gary Palmer8 said:And he’s still ahead of Sebastian Vettel... that kid is actually a beast. LOL

So, nothing from the headline after all, huh? Typical.

So, is that little guy finally going to win something? 😁

Look, things are starting to move, but honestly? I’m terrified they’re just going to stall out again.😢

Looks like our perennial "future world champion" might actually pull it off after all.😢

The guy just has zero luck. It’s nothing but giving up, constant breakdowns, and making boneheaded calls that screw him over. It’s actually ridiculous. But even with all that chaos, he’s still out there fighting. Honestly, I’m still a huge fan.🙏

Look at this:
Lewis Hamilton just blew past Scuderia Ferrari and Michael Schumacher on track. Honestly, it’s a good thing the FIA didn't hand him a trophy for that one.
Mark Webber just sticks his nose into everyone's business. The FIA won't lift a finger—not even a second glance to see if they should hand out a penalty.
Alonso is being an absolute nightmare, whining like a child because he wants Felipe Massa to let him pass. Honestly, just let him go. If the FIA actually steps in with a penalty, they might as well just hand him the championship on a silver platter right then and there.🤦
Sebastian Vettel losing his car while trying to pass Jenson Button—and that penalty—just makes zero sense to me. Why didn't anyone else get flagged? Like when Mark Webber went airborne over Kov? It was total nonsense. And don't even get me started on that Scuderia Ferrari situation. You could clearly see it: Weber suddenly floors it to create a gap, then the Safety Car shuts its lights off at the absolute last second. Honestly, that was one of the most brainless Safety Car calls we've seen all season. The race leader gets slapped with a penalty immediately through some lightning-fast process, yet they took half the race to decide if Lewis Hamilton actually overtook the Safety Car or not. Make it make sense. 🙏

Like someone else already pointed out in this thread, Jenson Button definitely earned that title more than anyone else. It’s honestly a shame he wasn't a faster driver and didn't take a few more risks every now and then.😢
But Sebastian Vettel is definitely sitting in second behind Jenson Button.

gentlebear47 said:Kimi, why on earth did you give stormybadger8 the pass? ☕

And my scenario is even more insane.🤣

Sebastian Vettel's leading the race, Fernando Alonso is in second, and Mark Webber's holding down third.

Thanks to the absolute mess up by the Red Bull Racing pit crew, Sebastian Vettel is muscling past Fernando Alonso. Alonso was leading everything until the final lap, with all the Ferrari fans celebrating, when—out of nowhere—his engine just dies halfway through the last circuit. Suddenly, Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber blow right past him, and things go absolutely mental.🤣

Just 100 or 200 meters from the finish line, Sebastian Vettel’s engine gives up the ghost again. Mark Webber has nowhere to go, slams right into his rear end, and practically catapults him across the finish line.🤣

Sebastian Vettel clinches the title thanks to Mark Webber.🙏🙏🙏
Mark Webber just slapped a reporter near the track after being asked if that move was a team order or if they just decided to help out their teammate on their own.😬 🤣

Flavio's sitting in the stands making about as much money as a rainy season in Seattle, while Felipe Massa’s just standing there laughing his head off on the podium. 😬

cosmicridge5 said:You guys are insane 🤣

Seriously, what part of this aren't you getting? There’s no debate here. Of course obviously Sebastian Vettel is going to let Mark Webber through if he needs to. It’s that simple. 😁

It’s the last race. Period. 😉

And if you can't support Sebastian because of that, I don't know what to tell you. 😁 Personally, I’d stop rooting for him before I’d ever refuse to do that. 🤷

Look, refusing to play ball during the season—especially when both drivers are still fighting for the title—is one thing. But this is the final race, and one driver is already out of the championship hunt. It's a totally different story. 😁

He’s going to let him through! Duh! 😁

Listen, cosmicridge5, Mark Webber was clearly slower, yet he somehow managed to knock Sebastian Vettel right out of the championship fight. In Turkey, Webber basically spit in the face of the whole Red Bull Racing crew. Sebastian did everything he could, but he was slower than him in Turkey, and Webber essentially trashed his chances and pissed all over the team. He did the same kind of thing last year just to make sure Sebastian had to fight tooth and nail for that miracle win. 🙄 Now you want him to just hand over the title on a silver platter just so the winner comes from the Red Bull Racing ranks? As if anyone in that garage actually gives a damn about the team anymore.

Well, dear cosmicridge5, then we're just talking about pure commercialism and shitty Red Bull Racing marketing. That has nothing to do with actual sports. Forget that nonsense about "letting a slower teammate through for the good of the team." No real athlete is going to do that. If they do, they become a complete jerk. Maybe not in the eyes of the owners, and maybe not to some obsessed fans, but in their own eyes? Absolutely. Every single time he looks in the mirror for the rest of his life, he'll be thinking, "I'm a total jerk." ☕

Roger Wright94 said:You're spot on.
Except you're missing one detail we've already chewed over here and mostly agreed on.
Do you honestly think Mark Webber is the type to just roll over and take it?

If you're a parent, your kid doesn't get to boss you around.
If you're the boss or the owner, your employee doesn't tell you how to run your business.

That's the core issue. Webber acts the way he does because he knows the management structure at Red Bull Racing is a complete disaster.

If they had actually stood up to the idiots properly, everything would be fine—either the situation would be fixed, or one of them wouldn't even be driving anymore. Instead, we're stuck with this third option they've been pulling all season, and frankly, no sane person should tolerate it.☕

mistybear87 said:if anyone in that team actually had half a brain or any authority, Mark Webber would be winning the championship right now. 😉

in that scenario, they’d finally rein in that bully, and Vettel would just sit there and eat his own words.🙄

If he pulls that, there's zero chance I'm ever rooting for him again. 🙂

The truth is, Red Bull completely screwed up in Turkey during the race, and everything since then is just the fallout. Who cares now? They should just stick to their guns and let the better driver win.☕

Morgan Murphy7 said:you clearly have no clue

If they’d just played their cards right and backed Webber from the start, we wouldn't be stuck in this mess where even Fernando Alonso could snatch the title with a third-place finish.🤷

If they had gone all-in on Vettel, he’d be sitting on about 50 more points than Webber right now, and Nico wouldn't even be in the conversation.

Webber is only still in this because of what happened in Turkey, Vettel dropping back, and that whole mess with Vettel finishing 7th.

If Vettel had actually let Webber pass every single time, Webber wouldn't even be fighting for the championship. If they hadn't been constantly tripping over each other, Vettel would've clinched the title long before the race in Brazil.

Morgan Murphy7 said:It’s high time divine justice hits Red Bull for pushing Vettel so hard. Honestly, they'll do anything just to make sure Webber doesn't get credited with 👎
.

What about just swapping their helmets? Put Vettel's cap on Webber and shove him into Webber's car instead.🙄

He brought it on himself because the kid is faster in qualifying.
He brought it on himself because the kid is faster in the race.
He brought it on himself when he crashed out in Korea.

Seriously, what is wrong with you people?🤷

Man, this season has been such a joke. Hamilton still walked away with the title though. 🤦

Alonso's engine would've blown up anyway.
Imagine Vettel and Webber sitting pretty in a 1-2 finish, right on the edge of clinching the championship, then a collision sends Red Bull Racing straight into the trash and Hamilton cruises to first to snatch the trophy. 🤦

mistybear87 said:I have a feeling Hulk isn't driving for McLaren or Ferrari next season, but he could definitely end up at Red Bull Racing.🤣🤣🤣

Just so you know, that crossed my mind the exact second Hulk scored those points for the Democratic Party.🤣

It actually makes sense. Hulk is basically the best driver without a top-tier car, and if Mark Webber really leaves, it would be a genius move for Red Bull Racing. He even went out of his way to impress Sebastian Vettel.😁

Alonso basically flushed his title chances down the toilet today, though honestly, looking at things right now, it feels pretty much impossible anyway.😬

P. S. pile, why isn't Schumacher the champion?🤷