Posts by Susan James

Paul Kern12 said:I would appreciate your perspective or perhaps some advice regarding this situation:
My child is currently in third grade at a small rural school. There are four students in his specific class, making a total of twelve in the grade. The teacher commutes every day from a town roughly 16 miles miles away.
The issue stems from his relationship with the students. His aggressive and condescending attitude—referring to them as "stupid hillbillies"—manifests almost daily; he screams at the children so loudly that the noise reaches our house, which is about 150 yards away.
Last year, my son came home in tears because the teacher had slapped him. I called him immediately, of course, but he denied everything. It was simply his word against my child's, which I pointed out to him. After a few minutes, he actually called me and demanded that I come to the school right then with my son so we could "settle things." When we arrived, he loomed over my child and asked, "Do you even know what a slap is? Let me show you: a slap is when I hit your cheek with my palm. But I didn't hit you with my palm; I used a textbook. That isn't a slap."
At that point, I lost my patience and asked him if he preferred to "slap him with a textbook or a chair?"
He then began making excuses, claiming it isn't easy working with so many kids, or asking if I realized he was alone with nine students (last year there were nine).
I requested that this never happen again. I didn't want to report him initially, as I felt bad thinking he might lose his job—he has a family to support.
It seemed as though that gave him a sense of impunity, as the daily screaming continued unabated.
Because of this, I complained to the principal of the main school (though I kept the slapping incident to myself at that time), and she said she would have a conversation with the teacher.

This school year hasn't brought any changes whatsoever. The constant yelling has reached a point where my son has started crying every single day. He would even break down at school, leading the teacher to send him home or call my wife to come calm him down. We repeatedly pleaded with him to stop screaming at the children, explaining that we don't raise our son to yell like that. Eventually, it escalated to the point where the boy would leave for school crying every morning.
At the teacher's suggestion, the school sent him to a child psychologist. Psychology told us that everything was fine with the boy, but that he just needed to "toughen up."
I should mention that my son is incredibly outgoing with everyone—he'll chat with a cashier, a waitress, or anyone he meets for the first time—but he completely freezes up around this teacher (he even asked me, "Do you realize he won't talk to me?").
At the start of the second semester, the teacher lost his temper again and slapped a second grader, throwing him to the floor and kicking him. That little boy kept it to himself at home, but he told our son. We informed the parents, but their reaction was quite lukewarm.
I reported everything to the principal and the school counselor. The teacher denied everything. He pressured the students to say nothing happened. He even asked the entire class who had told their parents about it. My son, since we teach him to always tell the truth, spoke up, only to be called a liar and a "lowlife" by the teacher in front of the whole class!!!
The principal, the counselor, and a school specialist all arrived. They interviewed the students individually, and every single student confirmed the incident (it turned out there were other things, like being punched in the stomach and similar things).
However, the response was utterly useless... the principal essentially said, "Well, I've slapped a student once too—we're all human..."

I wasn't going to let this slide, so I threatened to report everything to the Department of Education and Child Protective Services. I demanded that they either remove the teacher or I would transfer my child to the main school (even though he’d have to commute, whereas this local school is only 150 yards from our house). The principal argued that changing environments wouldn't be good for the child, asked me to be patient until spring break, and promised she would handle it.
Just before the break, we were called into the school, presumably to see if we would stand our ground. I stated clearly that I do not want this teacher as my child's educator, though I agreed to wait until the end of the school year (as the principal pleaded with me).

Now, as the school year winds down, the teacher announced at a parent meeting that my son would receive mostly Bs across the board. He claimed, "Everything is between a B and an A, but this will motivate the student to work harder next year."
It isn't that I care about my son having straight As, but I feel this is fundamentally unfair to a child who worked hard all year. For instance, his art project is being selected for an exhibition, and he has straight As except for one C (because he didn't have a soft brush during a timed task).

I reached out to the principal again today—mostly because I'm trying to get some clarity regarding next school year—just so I can finally figure out where my child will be attending. She mentioned that she "has a few ideas in mind," though she noted she won't have any concrete information regarding the scheduling until July 10th.

I suppose I am looking for some perspective here—how should I approach this? Should I be taking any specific steps now, or would it perhaps be better to just wait?

Yeah, it’s a shame for his family, but☕
nothing justifies him bullying twelve kids. Besides, I'm pretty sure they could find someone else to fill his spot in no time.

Personally, I would have reported it right from the start.

I'm not sure if you filed a formal report yet, but if you did, I really hope you kept a paper trail. There's no point in trying to negotiate with the school administration anymore. You should take this straight to the Department of Education and the Office for Civil Rights. This time, you need to include both the principal and the entire administrative staff in the complaint, since they were clearly aware of what was happening and failed to act.

Even that psychologist who told you the child just needs to "tough it out"—you could file a grievance against her with the state licensing board too.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Shouldn't a school be a safe haven where a parent can drop off their sixth grader without worrying they'll get jumped by an eighth grader?

Shouldn't students with severe behavioral disorders be handled by professionals specifically trained for that level of intervention? As it stands, it sounds like we're expecting teachers to moonlight as family therapists.

Ultimately, they expect one teacher to act as a surrogate parent, a psychologist, a security guard, and an educator all at once. It's absurd.

What exactly led you to that conclusion?
I never said that, and I don't think anyone in their right mind expects you to provide psychotherapy.

A serious behavioral disorder doesn't just appear overnight in eighth grade. That kid has been through seventh grade too—what were the teachers doing during that time?

My question is, do you really feel like there is nothing you can do to help reduce violence while the kids are under your roof?
How are you actually preventing violence from happening, or is everything truly left to the specialists in the building who, based on your experience, just sit around drinking coffee in the lounge?

And how many suspensions for a single student can we actually tolerate? What happens if nothing changes during that suspension period?
You still haven't answered whether you would actually take a student back into the classroom after a month-long suspension.

Yes, school needs to be a safe place. As a parent, I feel incredibly uneasy knowing there are about 50 helpless adults in that building whose only "disciplinary measures" within their institution are calling security, using cameras, or handing out suspensions... people who only know what everyone else *isn't* doing and what everyone else *should* be doing.🙄

Based on that description, the school sounds like a very dangerous place to me.😳

copperpuma11 said:Situations like this turn into massive legal messes where everyone sees things differently—psychologists, teachers, the victim's parents, the aggressor's parents, lawyers, you name it. Why on earth would anyone actually want to try and beat someone up? And where did you get the idea that an untrained person could handle the situation? It’s more about luck than skill at that point.

☕

Finally, we're heading in the right direction. Or we probably would be. If it ever happened.

A few years back, we had these mandatory seminars on school violence and youth issues. The amount of useless information they shoved down our throats was unbelievable. What am I supposed to learn from stats like "last year in the USA, x% of children under age 2 were abused in home xy, while y% were aged 4"? Maybe the psychologist lecturing us could also use some supervision and actual professional development herself.

Well, why didn't you just ask her right then and there?🤷
I definitely can't speak for her (though, at first glance, I might actually agree that all those stats are pretty pointless when you're trying to focus on prevention and tackling bullying).
If nobody in the audience bothered to question that nonsense, it really shows me how little teachers actually care about the issue or making any real changes. 🥳
I assume you guys didn't show up to listen because you were genuinely interested, but rather because it was mandatory and you got a day off work. 😳

Or maybe you were just being perfectly compliant students—no questions, no messing around on your phones, no criticizing the content, and no questioning the speaker's expertise. 🤔
Just the exact kind of students you’d want in your own classroom, right? 😳

Quincy:

I haven't seen any posts from you yet! If you have something on your mind or just want to jump into the conversation, feel free to share. I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts! kaže: I was chatting with a colleague who used to teach over there, and he mentioned that things have actually improved quite a bit. It sounds like the situation is incomparably better than it used to be.

What does "incomparably better" actually mean?
How many different schools did he teach at, and roughly how many students did he work with over the years?
What exactly is he basing his claims on?
You know what they say—the grass is always greener on the neighbor's lawn. I used to think that was just a cliché until I moved into my current place. Every time I look over at the yard next door, it looks like something straight out of a professional landscaping magazine! It’s funny how we work ourselves up over things that seem perfect from the outside, isn't it? 😬

Quincy:

I haven't seen any posts from you yet! Looking forward to hearing what you have to say. kaže: That’s exactly why I keep bringing up family therapy instead of just focusing on temporary isolation.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:That’s precisely why you have to tackle the family dynamics first.
Family therapy isn't some magic wand—it won't provide an overnight fix—but it is undeniably more effective than just barking orders at people.

What exactly are you basing that claim about guaranteed efficiency on?
Family dynamics aren't going to shift overnight, and honestly, it feels like it could be a long time before we see real progress. In some households, things are so deeply rooted that change seems almost impossible. This often leads to children being sidelined or isolated from the rest of the family, which can be heartbreaking. I’ve seen cases where this isolation actually backfires, making a child's behavior or emotional reactions even more difficult to manage. It really makes you wonder: what are we supposed to do for those kids caught in the middle?
Does the school system actually have any patience left for kids like them? And more importantly, how much is left in the tank?

The one thing that really jumps out at me is the suspension.I just hope things don't end up like that here in the States.Family therapy can be such a game-changer when things feel a little off at home. It’s not just about fixing one specific problem; it’s more about looking at the whole picture and helping everyone communicate better. I remember a few years back, my own family went through a bit of a rough patch where we were all talking past each other instead of actually listening. We decided to try a few sessions with a counselor, and honestly, it helped us find our rhythm again. It’s really about building those stronger connections so everyone feels heard.Let others deal with them.What exactly should teachers be looking for, and what tools do they actually need to succeed? Beyond that, I’ve been thinking lately about what the true role of a school should be in a student's life. Is it just about the curriculum, or is there something deeper going on?
I can't shake the feeling that this recommendation is actually a way to push problematic kids aside. It feels like the underlying goal is to get them out of the classroom entirely so the teachers can just focus on the curriculum in peace. It’s almost as if they want to minimize their presence in school just so the rest of the class isn't interrupted.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:A colleague of mine who used to teach over there tells me the situation is incomparably better.

Do you honestly believe that the mere fear of social isolation is enough to force someone to correct their violent behavior?

I have already pointed out how one disruptive student can poison the entire classroom dynamic. When there are zero consequences for bad behavior, these troublemakers don't just get away with it—they become leaders. Without real discipline, they aren't being forced to change; if anything, they’re being encouraged to act out even more.

The goal isn't merely to correct—though I certainly advocate for strict punishment—but to actually teach a child how to behave in a socially acceptable manner.
If you isolate someone, who exactly do you think they’re going to learn from? They’ll be left with nothing but their own thoughts.

That is precisely why I constantly advocate for family therapy instead of just settling for temporary isolation.

The thing is, you don't walk out of family therapy with a magic prescription that instantly makes everyone feel better or act more polite.😁
A therapist doesn't have a magic wand they can wave to suddenly transform a family into that perfect version of themselves you might see in movies or read about in parenting books. It doesn't work like that.
Therapy is a process.
The family has to actually have the capacity to change, which means showing genuine willingness and staying involved. And once they do the work, they need a real-world environment where those changes can actually take root.

It’s a journey that can't be separated from real life—from the actual daily circumstances where the problems exist in the first place.

And one more thing... whether we're talking about therapy, schools, preschools, or even foster care systems... what truly heals and encourages behavior change is the RELATIONSHIP. Without that connection, nothing really changes.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:This exact system works perfectly fine in both Austria and Germany, yet we have a group of self-important egos who insist they know better than everyone else. It’s that kind of arrogance that landed us right where we are today.

It’s common sense—family therapy wouldn't just wrap up in a single month.

Furthermore, intervention should start at the very first sign of trouble, rather than waiting for things to spiral out of control.

I never said I knew better than everyone else. As a teacher, it honestly makes me a bit sad that you're perceiving it that way, or rather, that you're reading so much between the lines.

There isn't any peer violence in Austria or Germany.😕
Really?

Emily Gonzalez51 said:They’re going to struggle with the curriculum regardless, so how else is he supposed to pass the grade? He doesn't need pity. And frankly, how can you, acting as a psychologist, be oblivious to the fear of social isolation? Was that not part of your college curriculum?

Actually, there's no need for further explanation. The system I'm proposing would require psychologists to be far more involved than they currently are, and that's where the real issue lies.

No, what is that? 🤣

Do you actually think the fear of being socially isolated is enough to make someone correct their violent behavior? (I'd drop an LOL here, but since you're a teacher, I'll just stick to this 🤦)

Do you seriously believe that a kid who was popular because he got into fights at school is going to become socially isolated just because he's out of school for 30 days? 🤣
That nobody will want to hang out with them just because they weren't there?
That they won't be able to connect with people on Facebook, on the street, or with even tougher criminals while practicing their "street survival skills"?

I totally get the need to protect the kids who aren't violent and behave well, but please realize that a child who is aggressive, impulsive, lacks self-control, has no sense of norms, or holds warped values needs to be surrounded by positive role models they can actually learn from.

They won't find that on the streets, they likely don't have a stable home, and the chances of finding it in a juvenile detention center are slim (because even with the best staff, they are still surrounded by peers just like themselves).

The goal shouldn't just be to "correct" violent behavior (even though you're advocating for punishment), but to teach the child how to act in a socially acceptable way.
Where or from whom are they supposed to learn if you just isolate them?

copperpuma11 said:Poet, I drink my coffee at home or at cafes during my free time. It’s not just about the coffee.

What I want to discreetly point out to you is the fact that if I step into a physical fight, I risk criminal prosecution. With a final conviction, I lose my right to work in the civil service.
The core issue is how to ensure children are safe in schools. A teacher witnessing that student A) cracked a student's head open won't change the reality that someone's head was cracked.
It shocked me to learn that ambulance drivers are held liable for any accidents they cause. So go ahead and race through red lights just to save a life. Things aren't quite as simple as they look.

Why though?
It doesn't mean you have to jump into a physical fight and beat someone up just to intervene or make a difference.
🤷 To me, your post sounds like you're afraid you won't be able to control yourself when faced with anger, fear, or helplessness.
🤷
It feels like you’d rather stay back at the precinct than be out on the scene, just so you don't actually have to step in.
☕

Jessica Howard5 said:Look, I’ll say it again: we need to start tackling this from preschool, around age three. That's the only way. For kids who just can't fit in, there should be specialized schools with proper staffing—smaller classes, security, and specialists dedicated to both the kids and their parents. It shouldn't be an issue. We have plenty of empty school buildings in rural areas; let's turn them into community centers designed to teach these kids how to actually function in society. And honestly? If things get bad enough, the law should allow for removing a child from a home if it's necessary. In those specialized communities, we can instill actual life values, which would ultimately mean fewer people ending up in rehab for drugs later on. I'd much rather take action early than wait until these kids are filling up police blotters. Check out what Milton says about this; it's a pretty interesting read
. He even touches on the UNICEF program.

Communities and rural schools...
🤔

So, you’d essentially have to separate the child from the parent to effectively correct behavior. That makes sense to me, and honestly, it sounds much better than the current mess of "family supervision measures." Right now, when things fail, it goes from observation to residential treatment, then intense facility care, then special education schools for kids with behavioral issues—but the parent gets nothing. In fact, they almost get a reward because they don't have to deal with the kid at home anymore and lose the headache.

Just as a heads-up, placing one child in state-run foster care costs about $10,000 $0.00 per month (once you factor in staff salaries, utilities, food, clothing, etc.).

Now, about this imaginary community... you’d have to find a small town where the neighbors aren't going to complain about having "dangerous" kids living right next door.
You’d need massive amounts of space with plenty of activities available (so they don't run off and don't feel like they're in a ghetto, but actually learn).
The location has to be somewhere where staff can commute to work at a reasonable speed.
You have to secure enough funding for continuous professional training and constant supervision for that staff.
Hmm, let's see... you also have to hire highly educated, incredibly motivated professionals who would actually want to work in the middle of nowhere for current $2000/month, dealing with "troubled" kids and their parents, potentially living nearby, and finding ways to motivate them so they don't quit constantly.
Do you really think that's doable? 😬

When you crunch all the numbers and look at the big picture, I honestly feel like investing in our educators is a much smarter move. They have so much more potential to actually prevent issues before they start, and they play such a huge role in helping kids navigate and heal from challenges—way more than some hypothetical government committee ever could.

But it’s going to take real willpower, resources, and a bit of honesty... we have to admit that not everyone is cut out to be a teacher. Anyone working with children needs consistent supervision and genuine professional development. And I don't mean those tedious paperwork sessions where people just learn how to file curriculum plans; I mean real training on how to connect with kids, how to resolve conflicts, and how to make sure every child feels seen. It's about learning how to actually be a positive role model that kids can look up to.

At the end of the day, nurturing and raising a child starts from day one, not when they turn three.😬

Emily Gonzalez51 said:I honestly don't get why everyone is acting like I'm crazy for suggesting the obvious solution: a month-long suspension from school and mandatory family therapy. 🙄

He shouldn't be allowed to lash out at anyone like that, let alone target someone younger and weaker right in the middle of the hallway. But clearly, he thinks he’s untouchable.

So they gave him a reprimand 😁, but seriously, what kind of adult do you think he'll be in 5 or 10 years? As if a slap on the wrist is going to fix his character.

Bullies need to be removed from the environment immediately, if only to stop them from poisoning the rest of the kids. Right now, he's playing the hero because every newspaper in town has been running stories about him. 🙂

Let’s look at the details here:
Where are you actually going to take a kid for those 30 days? At best, the kid is just going to get a reward by sitting in front of the TV, scrolling through social media, or playing video games, enjoying a break from a school environment that was already stressing them out anyway.
It sends the wrong message to the other kids: "Hey, if you act out, maybe you can get sent home too, so we can just hang out and play Xbox all day." That sounds way better to a kid than getting lectured.

And then what happens after the suspension?
Is one month really enough? How does the student make up for all the material the high-achieving students mastered during those 30 days? Is the school going to play nice and hand out easy assignments just to keep the peace at home? Isn't that just another reward?
Or will the school even want to let a "rehabilitated" bully back into the classroom...

Shouldn't that child be tasked with making amends—doing something productive that serves as both a consequence and a way to show others that justice is being served?
Shouldn't someone use those 30 days to actually teach them, through words and actions, how to behave properly?

And family therapy?
In just one month, 🤣

Besides, what are you actually going to do about it? Who are you even going to mandate to attend family therapy if the aggressive child has been placed in a juvenile detention center?

Emily Gonzalez51 said:I honestly don't get why everyone is acting like I'm crazy for suggesting the obvious solution: a month-long suspension from school and mandatory family therapy. 🙄

He shouldn't be allowed to lash out at anyone like that, let alone target someone younger and weaker right in the middle of the hallway. But clearly, he thinks he’s untouchable.

So they gave him a reprimand 😁, but seriously, what kind of adult do you think he'll be in 5 or 10 years? As if a slap on the wrist is going to fix his character.

Bullies need to be removed from the environment immediately, if only to stop them from poisoning the rest of the kids. Right now, he's playing the hero because every newspaper in town has been running stories about him. 🙂

He’ll feel like a celebrity once you isolate him, especially with the way you're suggesting this be handled. Instead of dealing with teachers, reading assignments, homework, and responsibilities, he gets to stay home and relax.
Do you honestly think the other kids—especially toward the end of the semester when everyone is stressed about finals—are going to look at him with sympathy? 😕

Paul Wilson72 said:An 8th grader brutally attacked a 6th grader right in front of the school building

"The school board decided that the student will face disciplinary measures—that was confirmed by Principal Puhalo," 🙂 🙂 🙂

Now I'm just waiting for someone to step up and try to "save" this bully by digging for excuses or searching for some deep-seated trauma to justify his behavior.
But what about the victim? Who is going to protect them from him?

So the attacker gets "punished" 😂 🤣 with mere "disciplinary measures"??? That sends a pretty terrible message to everyone involved... 🙄

So, what would you suggest instead of these "disciplinary measures"?
If you had a whole toolkit of options at your disposal—or better yet, if you could do whatever you wanted to solve juvenile violence—what would you actually do?
In what way would you go about changing the behavior of a violent kid?

And honestly, why the extreme reaction? Just because there's an attempt to show a shred of humanity toward the "bully," does that automatically mean we have zero empathy for the victim?
What exactly do you mean by that sentence I bolded?😕

Jessica Howard5 said:I'm not generalizing. Sure, there are divorced teachers who are amazing, but then you have those who were totally checked out during the divorce process or right before it. Look at the entire social services department—they're all married with no kids. They have all the theoretical knowledge in the world, but practically speaking? Zero real-world experience.

That's what I meant.

So, if I'm following you, it's a lose-lose situation: it's "bad" if they have too much life experience—like getting married, having kids, and then going through a divorce—but it's also "bad" if they've never been married or don't have children.
🤔

What kind of personal experience should the staff actually have to be considered qualified? ☕

Nicholas King said:Even though I have a pretty good idea of where this is going, I’d still love to hear your take: what exactly would be your proposed course of action—what specific steps or measures would you suggest—to resolve or, at the very least, significantly improve this whole situation?

Paul Wilson72 wrote: so I should just throw on a white T-shirt with a GAY slogan and go for a stroll through Dubrava after 1 AM.
In that case, I guess I'd finally learn what violence feels like firsthand, and then maybe I'd start handling my own problems with a little force too.
😬

Keith Wells2 said:Man, you nailed it. 👍
Sadly, it's exactly like that. And you basically hit the nail on the head regarding why: parents, social services, the cops, the legal system... 👍

I'm constantly reading about these massive incidents in the news—minors raping, beating, or killing people. Older teens causing havoc for younger ones... It's always the same. Psychologists try to balance the scales between the victim and the aggressor, and honestly, what's there to say? It's all a byproduct of our "advanced" education system. You go from college straight to a job, and you end up with some psychologist who's been working for 20 or 30 years, someone who’s never even caught a slap in the face in their life. Of course they have those kinds of views and conclusions 🙂
The core issue is that nobody faces any consequences. Kids are insanely protected. Even the biggest thug is still just a "child" under the law, so he needs help, empathy, understanding... 😢

I won't even mention how the police don't bother with problematic kids because it involves punishing the parents, calling in social services, doing paperwork... It's all just a headache. Too much bureaucracy and red tape, so it boils down to a couple of warnings and then they move on. Basically, nothing happens until someone actually bleeds out...

I can tell you this: most of the younger kids are living off their parents, and for the older ones, both parents and their crew provide the safety net for these violent, troubled types. And to their own parents, every single one of these kids is perfect, beautiful, the best ever, blah blah blah... 🙂

If you ask me, violence is best treated with effective violence. Everything else is just talk for naive people and fools—people who usually rely on protection from the state, institutions, and agencies that couldn't care less! Like Tesla once said, an atomic bomb for everyone... then there wouldn't be any bullies or victims left. 😬

So, if I'm hearing you right, you think a psychologist should be earning enough to actually make a dent—enough to have some real leverage to push for changes within the system? That’s an interesting way to look at it. Personally, I feel like if mental health professionals had more financial stability and influence, they could really start advocating for structural shifts that would benefit everyone, rather than just putting out fires one patient at a time. It’s a bit like how a seasoned consultant at a firm like McKinsey might suggest big-picture reforms instead of just fixing minor glitches; you need that kind of standing to actually move the needle. What kind of specific changes would you want to see them spearheading?😲

Do you actually have a specific suggestion for what we should do, or are you just pointing fingers at everyone else for not doing enough or doing it wrong?
🥳

Actually, looking at all those bolded points, I feel like there are way more underlying causes than what’s actually listed here... Don't you think you might have left someone or something out while you were calling everyone out? 🤔
So, we all know something is going down. We can feel that things are shifting, and we know deep down that action is needed. But honestly? It feels like everyone is just waiting for the actual chaos to hit before anyone lifts a finger. Then, once the dust settles and things get messy, instead of actually fixing the problem, people will just spend all their energy pointing fingers. They'll start arguing about who should have stepped up back in kindergarten and why nobody saw this coming. It’s always the same routine: everyone shrugs their shoulders and claims they’re innocent because, hey, there was nothing they could do at the time. 😬
And we're right back where we started.

And honestly, when it comes to kids, you really just need patience, presence, and a whole lot of empathy. It’s about being there for them and truly listening.
It’s honestly heartbreaking when you see adults who lack any sense of empathy or boundaries getting close to children one way or another 👎

On a side note, you seem to be calling for violence a bit too much in this post... I truly hope you're staying far away from parenting and the school system

Charles Murphy6 said:From what I've seen, there are really only two patterns when it comes to family dynamics in these cases. Either you have the heartbreaking scenario I just described—which absolutely floors me as a parent, because I can't even fathom my own child speaking to me that way—
or you run into the second type: the "know-it-all Mr. and Mrs. Perfect Parent." Please, don't take this personally if you fall into that category, because I know there are exceptions, but what I have witnessed is frankly terrifying.
There is this crushing, relentless pressure placed on a child to be "above average" simply because Mom and Dad consider themselves "above average," using those exact, arrogant words.
And you know what the fallout is? At home, these kids are systematically broken down by all sorts of psychological nonsense, and then the moment they step foot in school, they just snap like popcorn.
The one silver lining in all of this is that you actually can get results, provided that teachers, counselors, the principal, and social services all decide to pull together and act as a single unit.
It is truly mind-blowing how much you can achieve just by using the right words to force parents into a corner where cooperation becomes their only option. You essentially back them against a wall until they finally crack—some of them start crying, some actually beg for help, and suddenly, everything starts moving. It’s all about having a well-oiled team, and when that happens, actual miracles can occur.

You know what I find interesting about this pressure? A child who acts out outwardly becomes an immediate issue. Whether you want to or not, you have to deal with them.

But a child who is crumbling on the inside while appearing perfectly well-behaved and quiet? They stay invisible. Nobody pays attention to them, or worse, people only focus on them to hold them up as the "gold standard" for how everyone else should behave.

So, yeah, I know the teachers here might come for me for saying this, but I actually find it easier to deal with the kids who show their struggles externally rather than internally. The outward ones are literally screaming "help me," whereas the quiet ones just fade away. And unfortunately, sometimes that help doesn't arrive in time.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Look, my stance is simple: there are countless critical stages between a preschooler showing behavioral issues and a teenager becoming a delinquent. We need to identify these red flags early and intervene immediately. This shouldn't be a reactive afterthought; it needs to be baked into the system. Right now, it’s a disaster where school staff are just playing firefighter—constantly trying to douse flames instead of actually pulling the weeds out by the roots. If we don't fix the foundation, we'll keep reading tragic stories like that one in The New York Times about the kid who was stabbed at the local pond.

I definitely see where you're coming from,
but it feels like we're heading back toward the old habit of pointing fingers and shifting blame.
At the end of the day, it's the child who has to face the consequences.

And unfortunately, not every kid gets into preschool.
It isn't mandatory (though I personally think it should be by age 4 or 5), and there simply aren't enough spots available.

(I actually wrote a whole different post about enrollment and preschool tuition explaining why I believe it should be mandatory and accessible to everyone to help prevent these issues down the road.)

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Jesper Jull has noted in his books that over there, they even implement family therapy as early as preschool if a child displays problematic behavior.
Now, obviously, you can't force anyone to do anything, but recommending family therapy is simply part of the standard protocol.

As for everything else, this seems to be about specific cases from your own practice (given how the question was framed), so I assume when you mentioned "not stopping at recording a student's dogs in and around the classroom," you weren't referring to yourself or the parents. 🤷 ☕

Ultimately, it is common sense that results are only achieved when everyone pulls in the same direction—a point that has been hammered home multiple times in this thread: without parental support, there is no progress.

Since you brought up Juul, I think it would be really helpful to look closer at the concepts he covers so thoroughly: personal responsibility, relational accountability, social competencies, integrity, cooperation, and treating people with equal dignity... plus so much other stuff that seems to be missing in our American schools and families today.

To me, it almost feels like by constantly pointing toward psychotherapy (because someone recommends it), you're essentially asking someone else to fix the problem (as if nothing can happen without a therapist).
The reality is that therapy isn't always available, nor is it always feasible. Waiting around for a session to happen while doing nothing else because "someone else will handle it" is, frankly, irresponsible.

There is so much we can do in the meantime.
And Juul provides plenty of examples of things that can be done right within an institution (where parents aren't even involved) to address issues, like when a conflict breaks out.
I truly believe that any adult who comes into contact with a child can make a difference and encourage them toward positive change.

Even something as simple as working on a puzzle together can be productive for building rapport, managing conflict, or solving problems. This is true even if a third party thinks a psychologist should be sitting down with a parent—maybe a stressed-out dad or a frantic mom—to deal with the "actual" issue.🤷

I haven't been able to participate in the forum as much as I'd like lately, and I've seen some pretty questionable takes in here. For this topic, I highly recommend the book "From Obedience to Responsibility."

I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that! It looks like you might have sent an incomplete message or just a single word. If there was something specific you wanted to chat about or a post you wanted me to look at, just let me know—I'm all ears! kaže:
How much have you actually gotten involved in cases like this in your work as a psychologist? 😕 I can't quite get a clear sense of what's going on from this post.

In Denmark, when a kid starts acting out, they don't just leave parents to sit around wondering what they could have done differently. Instead, they step in with family therapy to tackle the issue head-on.

Do I really need to hand over my full resume, my current office address, my kids' names, their whole family tree, and even my shoe size just to have an equal seat at the table in this discussion?

☕

In Denmark, just like anywhere else in the States, psychotherapy is entirely voluntary. It’s something people choose to do when they feel ready and actually want the support, rather than something being forced upon them by anyone else.
I truly believe that real change in psychotherapy only starts to happen when we stop looking outward and start asking the individual: "What are you actually willing to do for yourself?" It’s about shifting that focus back to personal agency and what someone truly wants for their own life.
Even a psychotherapist—and that's true whether they're from here or even from Denmark—doesn't possess any kind of magic powers.

I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that! It looks like your message might have been cut off. Feel free to send over whatever you were working on, and I'll be happy to help you get it polished up! kaže:
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Just to clarify my point here—looking at this equation, I don't see any mention of parental involvement or the input from a school psychologist. It feels like everything is being placed solely on the teacher's shoulders. They’re either stuck just logging how many mistakes a kid makes during class, or they're left wondering what else they can possibly do to help.
It feels like some teachers act like they have superpowers, thinking they can just single-handedly fix everything or sweep away any fallout from their actions. Honestly, who knows what kind of deep-seated issues or past traumas might be driving that need to be all-powerful?

Guys, please—read between the lines!
If you honestly believe that only teachers play a role in this, while psychologists and parents are somehow excluded from the equation, then I think we’ve reached a bit of an impasse.

Hey, let me re-read my post one more time. I’m curious—what makes you think I was only talking about teachers? I never claimed they were all-powerful, nor did I say that anyone has the ability or the obligation to fix every single trauma someone might be dealing with.

Karen Richardson3 said:rhino, I’ve been thinking—have you actually seen any real progress or positive shifts when dealing with those kids coming from really troubled, high-conflict homes?

Like, does anyone have an actual success story where things actually worked out?

Because honestly, the whole mess just boils down to this: you've got parents who are understandably stressed out, demanding that the school step in and protect their kids if they're being bullied.
Then you've got teachers feeling totally helpless because they can't seem to stop the violence or keep the kids safe.
(And while we're at it, I'm curious about the actual protocol here—like, what happens when a kid just snaps and starts hitting another student in class? What is a teacher legally required to do? Is there some specific handbook or set of regulations that dictates how to handle these situations?)

So, basically, the parents end up pointing fingers at the teachers and the school administration.
The school, in turn, points fingers at the police and the US Navy.
But what can those agencies even do? Which brings me right back to my original question.

I actually know how one story ended at a local elementary school over in Seattle. There was this student who was terrorizing everyone else; his parents were constantly breathing down the school's neck to do something, but the kid was out of control—he brought a knife to school, made death threats, even choked a classmate... it was constant drama that stayed in the local news for years. It was the textbook definition of a broken home: no mother in the picture, father is completely checked out, and he's a PTSD-sufferer struggling with alcoholism.
Eventually, the father just pulled his son out of school entirely, claiming they were moving to another country. Later on, the school tried reaching out to this supposed new school overseas, but it turns out the kid was never even enrolled there.
As for the school and the US Navy, they completely lost track of him. He's somewhere out there with his abusive father, and nobody has any clue where they went.

Of course there are success stories. There is definitely progress to be made.
It usually happens when people don't just get stuck on the child's negative behavior—spiraling into endless paperwork about everything the kid does wrong during class—but instead look for the student's strengths and focus on building those up.
It’s also about moving away from the "who's to blame" or "what should have been done" mindset, and instead stepping up with a proactive attitude: "What can *I* do right now to change this situation, and how am I going to make it happen?"
Plus, it helps to have a clear understanding of what the school can realistically handle versus what falls under the jurisdiction of NASA or local law enforcement.

urbantinker8 said:...who are essentially acting out because public schools are failing them... 🤦

I really don't have the heart to keep arguing here with people whose actual professions I know nothing about, let alone whether they have any real-world experience in education or child development, other than perhaps having sat in a classroom themselves a lifetime ago or maybe having kids who happen to be in school right now.
I wouldn't dream of telling a friend who's a dentist how she should go about fixing teeth since I don't know the first thing about dentistry. I certainly wouldn't lecture a friend who works as a judge about legal proceedings, mostly because I'm completely out of my depth there.
So, I suppose...☕
Jessica Howard5 actually opened up this discussion in a way that was both sensible and polite, even though it’s clearly a total Pandora's box, but it seems some people here are taking things entirely the wrong way.

👋

I can understand why some might feel that only teachers can truly empathize with the specific struggles of the classroom. But if you're genuinely looking for fresh perspectives or new ways to tackle a problem, why would you shut out the views of a hairstylist, an electrician, a chef, or a dentist? Even if they aren't educators, anyone who spent at least eight years in the American school system or has kids navigating it can offer something valuable. You don't have to agree with them or adopt their advice, but seeing things from an outside perspective can help you realize things you might have missed, potentially helping you break out of that "nothing ever changes" cycle.
When you close your eyes to other viewpoints and walk away from the conversation, it feels like you're saying you don't care and have no desire to improve the status quo.
Honestly, after seeing a few interventions from the moderators, it makes me wonder: do you act this way in real life too, shutting down anyone who isn't in your profession or doesn't share your exact opinion? 🤔

Emily Gonzalez51 said:And what's the actual goal here? Are we just going to drag this out indefinitely by insisting that teachers are both the cause and the cure for every single failure in the American school system?

Where are you getting that from, though? Who is actually making that claim?
🤔

Paul Wilson72 said:It’s funny how people love to complain about veteran professors who have been teaching for decades. But if someone actually suggested giving faculty similar pension benefits to what police officers get, the outcry would start all over again. You’d hear the same old tired arguments about how they aren't even doing any real work anyway...

I’ve tried explaining the reality of working in education to people outside the field, but it feels like a losing battle. It just goes to show that you can't convince someone of a truth they aren't interested in hearing. As the saying goes, "you can't feed a man who claims he isn't hungry."

Wait, where exactly are you getting the idea that anyone here is saying teachers don't do their jobs?

What I keep noticing is that teachers are burnt out because they lack any real authority and their hands are tied (and honestly, by whom?). On top of that, there's this perception that the administration isn't doing its job, the police officers on campus aren't stepping up, and the school psychologists are basically just sitting around sipping coffee or playing games with kids instead of actually intervening with students and parents to resolve issues before sending them back to class. 🤷

Let’s take a step back here. What specific authority are you looking for?
What exactly do you want the power to do right now, so you wouldn't have to rely on other agencies and could actually maintain a decent atmosphere in your classroom?

Kate Cox2 said:To start with, maybe some kind of suspension...

If a kid screws up, the parents should be automatically called to come pick them up and take them home immediately. For many people, leaving work is going to be incredibly inconvenient, and then they’re stuck wondering what on earth their child is supposed to be doing for the next seven days while they're barred from school. If nothing else, perhaps that inconvenience might make them actually stop and think about why their child needs to be learning in the first place.

I mean, if you have to get pulled away from your job five, six, or seven times just to go fetch your kid from school, maybe it will finally sink in.🤷(Since, according to American law, children can't be left unsupervised at home until a certain age, a parent either has to stay home with the suspended child or find someone else to watch them.)

I don't know, that’s just the first thing that comes to mind. I’m sure a group of more brilliant minds could come up with much smarter ideas than mine.
But simply writing a warning or a reprimand on a piece of paper doesn't mean anything to these kids (or their parents). That is the only thing schools are allowed to do right now. It's the only sanction available.

And frankly, it's complete nonsense.

Sending a kid home like that basically puts them on the streets.
Not back with their parents, but out on the street.

I agree regarding the formal reprimands.🤷

Someone mentioned that in another country, when a student gets suspended, they're assigned an assistant or a mentor who works with them through the situation. (Maybe I'm imagining things, but that person would act as a role model for better behavior, so it isn't purely a punishment). That sounds okay to me, but banning a kid from school entirely after they mess up seems totally counterproductive.