Posts by coastalwalker9

The question itself is quite straightforward. It's just that any attempt at an answer seems to stretch out indefinitely in every direction. All that is required is a simple choice between A or B, along with a brief explanation as to why. ☕

Well, it seems you’re the only one truly standing out in this crowd. feralranger. 🤷

feralranger said:To illustrate, if I were to insist that my friend Steve had no other companions besides myself, and felt a certain sense of unease at the mere thought of him befriending Simon—that would imply a level of jealousy within the realm of friendship.

The situation you are describing functions in much the same way, only it pertains to the erotic sphere (which, for the vast majority of people, is precisely how it works).

Nothing can truly be compared to love. The example you provided doesn't hold up here; we are talking about an entirely different category of relationship and emotion altogether.

feralranger said:If one female friend were to tell another that she insists on a monopoly and views the expansion of philia love to a third party as undesirable, I would naturally conclude that we are dealing with jealousy rather than some noble desire to spread affection.

The same logic applies here. (Though, if one must note a crucial distinction, the vast majority of people within the sphere of philia are not prone to jealousy, whereas those in the erotic sphere certainly are.)

One can only speak of "infidelity" if there is a victim involved; however, it is impossible to have a victim—in the sense of someone being emotionally wounded—if the parties involved are not experiencing jealousy, but are instead finding joy in the expansion of not just philia, but erotic love as well.

Alright, let’s look at a hypothetical scenario. Suppose my partner and I haven't been intimate in ages—it's been over a year since we last had sex—but the love between us remains steadfast. We both genuinely want nothing more than the other's happiness.
Now, imagine I meet someone new.
Someone captivating, as new connections always seem to be at first; that initial spark is always quite something. Even though I truly love my longtime partner, this new acquaintance stirs something in me, and I end up sleeping with them because they’ve awakened desires I thought were dormant.
And I am certain my partner won't hold it against me; in fact, he would be happy for my fulfillment.

But I wouldn't be happy. That is the part you simply cannot grasp, Sisyphus.
While I might feel the rush of passion, there is no deep love or emotional necessity directed toward this new person—there is only the physical need for sex.
Essentially, I am having sex with this newcomer, yet my heart and my desire remain firmly with my partner.
Because, as I have previously noted, it is impossible for me to be in love with two, three, or even more people simultaneously. You can certainly have multiple sexual partners, but that isn't love.
At least, it wouldn't be for me.

Melissa Rogers4 said:Are you saying it’s impossible for a man and a woman to be non-jealous and still want a relationship where they don't share their intimacy with anyone else? Answer that first, then we can move on...

No. A person can be with whoever they want and end things whenever they feel like it. You just have to be honest instead of hiding stuff. Hiding things is the actual issue, not the jealousy itself...

It’s starting to become somewhat unclear to me as well that Sisyphus simply doesn't grasp this. Or perhaps, more likely, he just refuses to.

It isn't about jealousy, really; it’s simply that I can't envision myself participating in those kinds of multi-partner relationships.

feralranger said:I follow your logic, certainly, yet one could argue that those who exhibit jealousy within the sphere of *philia* would express similar sentiments. In that context, even a third friend—one who might socialize with your chosen "best friend"—would be deemed undesirable.

If I may paraphrase the biblical sentiment (I am your God, jealous, have no other gods besides me)) to apply to your romantic life, you are essentially demanding this position:

"I am your partner, jealous; have no other men besides me."

One might suggest that insisting upon exclusivity is, in fact, an implicit expression of jealousy regarding the possibility of spreading one's affection to others.

If love is truly devoid of jealousy, then it ceases to be exclusive. Such a (truly non-jealous) affection is, for most people, merely a friendship or *philia*, as opposed to the erotic kind, which inherently is not.

Understood, but if the individual you are involved with is (truly not) jealous, and instead tells you: "It is wonderful that you shared that human experience with someone else as well," then presumably, one would find no reason to feel soiled or repulsive.

We are discussing infidelity here, not some perfect scenario where circumstances align so flawlessly that cheating doesn't even become an option.

Personally, when I am in a relationship, I don't feel the need to seek out anyone else. I honestly can't wrap my head around what it would even look like to distribute love in multiple directions at once.
Attraction? Sure, that happens. But love is something I can only feel for one person. That one exclusive connection. Everything surrounding that love might be a form of gratification, but
I'm not looking for mere gratification; I want it with that one specific person for whom I feel love.

feralranger said:I’ve certainly experienced those conflicting internal tides; for instance, finding myself profoundly *in love* with one woman in an almost asexual capacity, while simultaneously feeling an intense erotic pull toward another, with whom I was actually dating. Since my feelings for the first girl—who was nominally just a friend—didn't involve any sexual fantasies (let alone acting on them), I foolishly convinced myself I wasn't committing any kind of betrayal... however, much like what that research suggests, women can be significantly more prone to jealousy within that specific emotional sphere, and that is precisely where the misunderstanding took root.

But why would anyone feel revulsion if there is no jealousy involved and no one else is being caused distress? If, however, that sense of unease does manifest, then I suppose I must agree, as it is hardly a noble thing to inflict such negative emotions upon others.

I was actually referring to the internal sensation I would experience within myself, toward my own character, had I been the one to cheat. In such a scenario, I would simply feel dirty and revolting to my own conscience.

Melissa Rogers4 said:Look, I just want one woman. Just her, and only her. I don't want anyone else because she’s the one who stands out from the crowd to me. If she feels the exact same way about me, then we’ll be together, just the two of us. We should be loving each other, not hurting each other. If someone’s feelings change, they should be honest with their partner out of respect. You shouldn't stay silent and go behind the back of someone you were just soulfully connected to...

If she needed someone else and was fulfilling that need on the side, the breakup wouldn't be about jealousy; it would be because my attention is focused entirely on her, while hers is scattered. It becomes an unbalanced relationship. You know? The initial terms and the harmony we built up get ruined. So, I'm not jealous that she went to someone else; I'm just sad that our relationship isn't the same anymore after she left...

By keeping secrets, we lose the core parts of love: trust, respect, stability, intimacy, and everything else. How can a relationship like that even work? The other thing is that she should have just spoken up. She should have trusted me enough to say her feelings had changed, or that she had changed, so we could figure it out. Maybe we would have worked something out, maybe a different kind of arrangement. But at least there wouldn't be any lying, and we could have kept our friendship and human connection, even if the romance couldn't stay the same...

I sign off on this word for word. 👍

That is how things ought to work in a decent world. But all too often, people avoid being honest out of fear or a desire to avoid discomfort, thinking they won't hurt the other person. In doing so, they drift far away from that original ideal, and eventually, they find themselves in over their heads—at which point, it becomes certain that plenty of people will end up deeply hurt.

feralranger said:I find myself in agreement. If anyone gets hurt, we are firmly in the territory of deception.

However, if there is no jealousy involved, then there is no emotional damage inflicted; and since, in such a vacuum, there is also no material loss, one could argue there is no actual cheating occurring. But, should that jealousy manifest, then emotional damage follows—given that it is a rather unpleasant sensation—and at that specific juncture, the label of 'cheating' finally gains its necessary substance.

You end up hurting yourself, too.

There is nothing quite as ugly as that feeling of being unclean and finding yourself utterly repulsive.

feralranger said:I find myself preoccupied with psychology... specifically, the fascinating nature of human self-deception. One could argue that almost every politician in Washington claims to be driven by pure altruism, and if we put them all through a polygraph, the machines might not even register a "lie" simply because most individuals have successfully convinced themselves of their own sincerity. However, I remain acutely aware of these psychological delusions, which allows me to see through the facade. It is that underlying psychological layer—that sub-layer beneath the conscious persona—that truly fascinates me when discussing topics such as these.

It isn't necessarily self-deception; rather, it seems more like a lack of awareness or perhaps just a deficiency in experience. Some things you pick up along the way, while others you have to learn through trial and error.

Self-deception tends to be more prevalent among those with high levels of self-confidence. They rarely bother to learn the hard way until they've felt the consequences firsthand.

Nicholas Bailey3 said:Look, I hate playing the moral high ground card on a forum—it’s a lose-lose situation. On one hand, cheating might give your ego a temporary boost, but you end up stuck with this nagging guilt—wondering if it was worth it—while the person who got cheated on tends to hurt more initially, though they usually bounce back quickly once they realize they didn't actually lose anything of substance in the long run.

Infidelity is a betrayal of both oneself and your partner.

feralranger said:It seems to me that the issue here is quite transparent: you aren't actually polyamorous, you’re simply jealous—which, let’s be honest, puts you in the majority of people who find the idea of sharing their affection with anyone else quite intolerable.

Conversely, when it comes to the realm of platonic friendship, I would argue that most people aren't driven by jealousy, but rather possess a naturally polyamorous capacity for connection.

If one were truly a member of a genuinely non-jealous, polyamorous species, then it would follow logically that sharing love wouldn't feel repulsive at all; instead, one would find genuine happiness in seeing that love expand and multiply.

That kind of ideal doesn't even exist in a historical harem setting. It really only serves the interests of (liberated) men. 😁

Idiomatic said:Enough with the endless sacrifices! 🙂

I'd put that idea on ice if I were you; it's highly unlikely to ever see the light of day.😁

Adam Davis2 said:Yeah, things were actually pretty decent out in the USA a few weeks back 🤣

It seems I have a knack for missing out on all the most amusing threads. 🙄

And what would Sisyphus say about this topic of the day? Would he be far too polite to admit it? 😁

Adam Davis2 said:Yeah, 🤣
...

Well, I must admit, you caught me a bit off guard there. 😁

Adam Davis2 said:Sisyphus just loves adding a whole philosophical layer to everything... remember that topic of the day about anal sex 🙂

Is that really a topic being discussed here in the USA?

Olivia Smith2 said:Our detective has provided some interesting insights. I suppose Sisyphus would simply share his partner.

Personally, I have always felt he would be more likely to share himself entirely.

feralranger said:If one were entirely devoid of jealousy, who exactly would be harmed by the widespread distribution of love?

I find myself wondering about the nature of connection; specifically, the fact—which I am tentatively assuming—that we don't experience jealousy within friendships, allowing a female friend to share her platonic affection with others quite freely, yet we demand that a partner refrain from expressing even a shred of romantic or erotic devotion to another woman.

You seem quite captivated by this particular topic, not just today, but whenever it surfaces; you have revisited the subjects of jealousy and monogamy countless times now. It makes me wonder: what is the root of this fixation?
Is it a desire to be with multiple women that you simply don't act upon, or perhaps you do practice it but feel burdened by the need for secrecy because your partners are jealous—or is there some other underlying motivation?

Whatever the case may be, it is abundantly clear that this subject draws you in like a magnet.

fadedheron said:No, we went our separate ways after a year.

It is ultimately healthier to walk away than to endure mutual misery side by side. 🙂
A year is often the ideal timeframe to realize things aren't working. Any attempt to convince yourself otherwise is nothing more than a slow way to waste your own life.

feralranger said:

I find myself once again compelled to address the topic of the day, though I must admit my enthusiasm for such trivialities remains perpetually low. It appears we are back at square one, circling the same drain of discourse that seems to define our collective existence. One might hope for a modicum of intellectual progression, yet here we sit, wading through the same predictable waters. Honestly, if this level of monotony continues, I may have to seek refuge in a particularly dense technical manual just to feel a flicker of stimulation. kaže:
I find myself pondering a rather uncomfortable dilemma today—perhaps it’s just the lack of caffeine, but I simply must ask: would you rather be the one pulling the strings through deception, or would you prefer to be the unsuspecting victim of someone else's machinations?🍿

The question itself is rather poorly constructed; it carries the flawed implication that one might actually desire both simultaneously, whereas the true distinction lies in determining which one we would genuinely prefer.

It's a hypothetical scenario.
That was my approach, though I noticed some people getting quite defensive and argumentative about it, so I decided it was best to just delete my responses and move on.

feralranger said:In any material transaction, there is always a party that suffers a tangible loss.

When we shift our focus to emotional connections, if jealousy—that bitter cocktail of negative emotions—is entirely absent, then there isn't really a "victim" to speak of, which makes the very concept of "infidelity" feel rather nonsensical.

This highlights a fundamental distinction between what we might call *philia* love—which, for most people, lacks that suffocating jealousy or possessiveness, and thus rarely invites terms like "betrayal"—and erotic love, which tends to be inherently jealous and possessive, leading people to reach for heavy labels like "cheating" whenever a third party enters the equation.

And? Would you rather be the one doing the cheating or the one being cheated on?🍿