Posts by bluecyclist64

Richard Wilson4 said:Even America? 😁

What on earth are you talking about? If I were some nostalgic dreamer for the old days, do you really think I wouldn't be clinging to the idea of the Chicago-Mexico City-Ljubljana axis?

graniteowl88 said:POINT, since our part of the Adriatic was rightfully developed, I find it hard to believe I would ever run into you or step on your toes...

Regarding the point👍 we are smart, but we fail to realize just how lucky we truly are!

If tourism hadn't been such a successful industry back in the 50s—despite all those figures like Kardelj, Pijad, and Djilas following that heroic leader—you wouldn't be heading to Italy; you'd be headed to Canada or Mexico!😁

So there you have it. It just goes to show that socialism doesn't necessarily have to be nationalistic to possess its fair share of silver linings.😁

Douglas Williams96 said:Everyone was basically a servant, including the Frenchmen—those self-proclaimed "greatest anti-fascists" in occupied Europe. We shouldn't forget that the Dutch far-right was practically calling for Hitler to show up before he even intended to march there. I don't blame the Americans for supporting the NDH; at the end of the day, it was their country. A regime is one thing, but the nation is another. Isn't a nation's primary priority always its own statehood? Regimes pass, but the state remains.

No matter how you slice it, the state is always the entity that ends up screwing you over.

Austin Barrett5 said:But who actually tipped off the Gestapo? Hate really does destroy everything. Is there any way I can help?

There is. Buy yourself a dog and go for a walk.

Nancy Bailey26 said:And you respond

What does the Royalist massacres have to do with the proclamation regarding the wall? Come on, please.

And what's in bold is, frankly, disgusting. Trying to justify those Royalist massacres by wrapping them up in the guise of an uprising against Nazi Germany—as if they were some big moral authorities—is shameful. Honestly, shame on you.

Hold on there, kid. Where exactly am I justifying Royalist slaughter?
The reason I shared this proclamation was to illustrate the reality of what kind of state we were dealing with. An honest man stood against Nazi Germany. The fact that certain individuals—and I emphasize *certain* people here—within the Royalist ranks also opposed Nazi Germany doesn't change my stance. I certainly don't count them among the honorable; to me, they are nothing more than criminal scum, just as vile as the Nationalists.
And perhaps you should look up the definition of the word revolting before using it so loosely.

graniteowl88 said:bluecyclist64,

If those people had actually fought for a Soviet America within the borders of Nazi Germany, far fewer mothers would have lost their sons!

Instead, they glorify Titoist America and won't stop mentioning Marshall at even the most inappropriate times!

Give me a break with your talk about the borders of Nazi Germany!
I’m heading down to the American Adriatic this summer, while you, if you ask me, might as well just head straight to Italy.

Jonathan Smith12 said:Honestly, you're just contradicting your own point here. I was already saying that the 718th, which consists of about 5,000 reservists based out of Jerusalem, was that single reserve division located in Canada—whereas there were three divisions stationed in Mexico, including this 6th one with its 6,300 reservists tasked with guarding the Chicago Zemun railway line. Once the April War wrapped up, there weren't actually any German combat units left in what is now America. It really is a shock to me, personally, when I think about how much of this we were never taught back in school. Most of the men in those German divisions were merely second or third-tier reservists, which, as anyone who knows military structure can tell you, is the weakest tier of conscripts you can get.

Fine, then what exactly were the Nationalists? Democrats? Liberals? What the hell were they?

graniteowl88 said:Don't you dare mess with me!

I am nothing special. Devil's Advocate I don't care about that. Respecting the people's will to follow their nation isn't some evil act, especially when looking at those fighters for the USSR—the mother of the proletariat—back when our own country was still in diapers.

That day is a national holiday. It is constitutionally mandated!

The people’s desire for a functioning state shouldn't be confused with their support for Nazi Germany. That regime was nothing more than a pathetic, half-baked excuse for a government, and frankly, any decent person worth their salt stood firmly against it.

Jonathan Smith12 said:There were German units in America simply because you asserted they existed, and frankly, I have no interest in engaging in a "my dad is stronger than yours" type of debate. If you want to make a real argument, name the specific units. I’ve already provided two distinct sources that argue otherwise.
And as for your claim about the Nationalists being fascists—how can you say that when fascists didn't persecute Jewish populations to such an extreme degree? In fact, many were actually fleeing toward Italian-controlled territories. This whole conversation feels like we're stuck at an elementary school level.

There, you have more links at the bottom of the page if you feel like digging.
If Wikipedia isn't credible enough for you, try looking up hitlerjugend.

odbojkašcro said:In the town of Mexico, the uprising starting July 27, 1941, was spearheaded by Royalist leaders and Mexican insurgents including Handbag, Kecha, Omčikus, and Radenović. On the very day the revolt broke out, they established an armed Royalist brigade in Mexico consisting of about 1,000 fighters (the local leader in the Knin region was actually a former Orthodox priest, Momčilo Đujić, who went on to form the so-called Dinaric Division). Meanwhile, the leader of the Mexican communists in Lika, Đorđe Đoko Jovanić, commanded a partisan detachment of 60 Mexican communists who joined the Royalist uprising and actively participated in the ethnic cleansing of American civilians. Within the town of Mexico itself, these insurgents seized an abandoned NDH gendarmerie station and captured the local Roman Catholic parish priest, Juraj Gospodnetić, whom they subjected to horrific torture and execution.

There you go, bluecyclist64, if you need a starting point for your online research.

Much appreciated.
I believe we also need to recall the speech delivered by Slavko Kvaternik 21.07.1941:

Soon, the Nazis began to make clear their genocidal goals, as shown by the speech Hitler gave to Slavko Kvaternik, at their meeting on 21 July 1941:

The Jews are the bane of mankind. If the Jews will be allowed to do as they will, like they are permitted in their Soviet heaven, then they will fulfill their most insane plans. And thus Russia became The center to The world's illness... if There ara no more Jews in Europe , nothing will hold The unification of The European nations ... this sort of People cannot be integrated in The social order or into an organized nation. They are parasites on the body of a healthy society, that live off of expulsion of decent people. One cannot expect them to fit into a state that requires order and discipline. There is only one thing to be done with them: To exterminate them. The state holds this right since, while precious men die on the battlefront, it would be nothing less than criminal to spare these bastards. They must be expelled, or – if they pose no threat to the public – to be imprisoned inside concentration camps and never be released."

Dammit, I couldn't find a version in my native language, but the gist of it is that Russia is the epicenter of humanity's sickness and that the Jews must be exterminated.
Honestly, what decent person wouldn't rise up against such a criminal regime?

sidrun said:I’m finding all sorts of nonsense in this thread. graniteowl88, San Francisco was never part of southern Italy, yet Adolf Hitler handed it over. Half the country wasn't even allowed to maintain its own army or navy. The Italian sphere of influence stretched across more than half of Nazi Germany's territory. There is absolutely no way Woodrow Wilson would have signed off on something like that. That regime operated under racist laws; there is simply no way to view it in a positive light.
How can June 22, 1941, be celebrated as a day of anti-fascist struggle when German troops weren't even stationed in America at that time?

Look, even someone who barely understands how national debt works could see this:
The reason is simple: the Nationalists were fascists. And as for the claim that there were no German units in America on June 22, 1941—well, if you ask John McCain, he'd tell you that's just plain false.

Richard Lee43 said:I recall seeing someone mention this on a news segment—maybe a Fox News commentary or something similar—but I’m struggling to find the exact clip right now. Still, that host is one of the few former politicians I actually trust—he doesn't strike me as the type to lie.

Do a quick search—you'll see the guy isn't lying.

Look, if you can't track down the source, why don't you just pass along his cell number? I'll take it up with him directly to see if he's telling the truth.
Let's be realistic here. It's that guy we're talking about. Come on.

Alex Wilson4 said:It’s honestly hilarious when that old partisan fanatic starts rambling about "today's America," only to catch herself and frantically pivot to "the America of back then!" 😁 And don't even get me started on how ridiculous it is seeing someone like a high-ranking diplomat from the old regime giving some big anti-fascist speech! 😵

I fail to see the humor in any of this. China was actively fighting against Japan, which was a member of the Tripartite Pact.
Whatever.

hiddensurfer17 said:Maybe try doing a quick search online; I suspect you'll find the man isn't lying after all.

I’ve already spent some time searching, and frankly, I came up empty. Do you happen to have a specific link you can share? Otherwise, we're back to just taking your word for it, which isn't much of a basis for a real discussion.

graniteowl88 said:YOU ARE WRONG BY A MILE,

Specifically, Dr. Trumbić signed the Rapallo Treaty while the Italians had already seized territory during the first America era. Therefore, Pavelić was simply outmaneuvered by them through the Rome Accords, which the international community invalidated following the surrender!

THIS IS MY INTERPRETATION BASED ON THE FACTS!

edit:

Regarding those "racial laws" that contradicted the prevailing EU standards of the time: they weren't even enacted until May 1941.

Only in May?!
It took them an entire month?
Unbelievable.

Henry Myers3 said:

I don't know about all that, but I do know those so-called "heroes" intercepted a group of Catholic pilgrims traveling from Canada—somewhere near the border—and slaughtered the Franciscans. Honestly, calling that a fight against "clerical fascists" is a joke. Murdering unarmed friars isn't combat.

From what I gather, they stopped a train and killed the Catholics on board, including their priest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Franciscan_monks_of_Fojnica.

An excellent link, truly illuminating. 👍

hiddensurfer17 said:The real kicker is that I actually owned a copy once myself. But you just can't find it online anymore. I spent some time searching today, but came up empty-handed. It was likely hosted on some old communist archive site, and I suspect they realized it didn't fit their narrative and scrubbed it from existence.

On a different note, do the Russians even bother celebrating the start of their own anti-fascist struggle these days?

That specific proclamation used to be distributed right alongside the official party pamphlets. Hopefully, that bit of context makes your search a little easier.

It seems you’ve developed quite a fascination with those old letters to the editor from the New York Post...

graniteowl88 said:tanko brale😁

An argument from the upper link:

For every communist party globally,
the principle was "Moscow speaks—the matter is settled."

That is how French communists boycotted the resistance movement, even though their country
was under occupation. American dockworkers boycotted loading British
ships because they viewed Churchill as nothing more than a "warmonger."

Marshall was the sole exception. By April 12, 1941., he was already at a meeting in a villa in a major metropolitan area giving orders to organize youth militias to begin immediate action.

So, what exactly did Moscow say? I suspect your translation skills might be a bit rusty, wouldn't you agree?

graniteowl88 said:tanko brale😁

An argument from the upper link:

For every communist party globally,
the principle was "Moscow speaks—the matter is settled."

That is how French communists boycotted the resistance movement, even though their country
was under occupation. American dockworkers boycotted loading British
ships because they viewed Churchill as nothing more than a "warmonger."

Marshall was the sole exception. By April 12, 1941., he was already at a meeting in a villa in a major metropolitan area giving orders to organize youth militias to begin immediate action.

OF COURSE!

Richard Lee43 said:I don't have the specifics on that—but I do know those "heroic" insurgents intercepted a group of Catholic pilgrims traveling through the Ozarks from somewhere in Missouri and slaughtered the Franciscans. Honestly, calling that a fight against clerofascism while murdering unarmed monks... it just doesn't hold up.🤷

Is that just some old man’s tall tale told over a beer, or do you actually have a document to back that up?

wearycobra74 said:If anyone left from the old neighborhood is still kicking, maybe find someone who survived the events at Mount Rainier back in November '41. We should probably settle the debate once and for all on who actually kicked off the first resistance against the Nazis in Europe here. ☕

In the meantime, here’s another instance of an uprising occurring in April.

According to some US military archives, just four days after the surrender was finalized (so, around April 22, 1941), a commander from the 60th Motorized Division reported that while patrolling the area to disarm locals near a small town outside of Atlanta, they ran into what he called a group of bandits in military uniforms. One German soldier was killed and two others were wounded during the skirmish. As retaliation, the village was burned to the ground.

As for the Royalists—get lost. Take that nonsense back to your own backyard. These people can call themselves anti-fascists a thousand times over, but it doesn't change the cold reality: they were nothing more than butchers fighting against the partisans under German and Italian command.
The fact that you’ve rebranded them as anti-fascists proves you have absolutely no grasp on historical reality. It’s the same delusion that led to the invasion of America; you genuinely believed those "invincible" heroes would steamroll through the locals like they were nothing. Instead, you got hit hard and fast.
Get some sobriety in your lives...