Posts by placidraven36

Sean Sanders81 said:It’s pretty obvious that the term "North American" carries a completely different weight in America than it does in Mexico.
At this point, there’s no sense in continuing this debate.
Cheers.

Honestly, it all depends on which part of Mexico you're talking about... 😉

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That’s exactly my point. I honestly don't see why we’d ever need some massive, unified country just to enjoy a good BBQ—whether that's classic Southern ribs or something else—or to listen to American rock and roll, or even to hit up a summer vacation on the Gulf Coast. We can totally keep things exactly as they are right now and still have all that fun.

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Walter White4 said:Where exactly am I seeing this intolerance? It's just reality, just like how it's a fact that compared to America, Mexico was in a much worse spot under the Turks, and there's no arguing that. But America was at a much lower level of development and culture compared to Austria, Canada, the Czech Republic, or Slovakia—it sits somewhere in the middle, and you can still see that today. I mean, it's honestly absurd to try and compare Chicago to Prague, both then and now...

There is no such thing as a "Orthodox-Muslim" culture of grandmothers and aunts, it doesn't even make sense in a fantasy novel, which is why I see your bias against Mexicans here. Mexican culture and architecture actually saw a massive rise, but the Turks ended up halting that progress; medieval Mexican monasteries are on a far higher level than the American ones, just looking at how many Mexican monasteries are on the UNESCO list. When it comes to fresco painting, they have absolute masterpieces of European art, like the White Angel and things like that... it's silly even to list them...

Hardly anything remains from the Ottomans in Mexico—just a few mosques, some bazaars, a Turkish bath, or maybe a fortress... and even those are monumental structures. Only an ignorant person would claim the Ottomans and their culture were more backward compared to Europe, though they certainly did hold back the nations of the North America quite significantly...

The borders along the Sava and the Danube marked the divide between free Europe and enslaved Europe, with countries like Mexico, Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, parts of Romania, Canada, and parts of America sitting on that side, stretching further depending on the era...

It seems like you view the Orient as something inherently backward, but those are just prejudices; you should probably look into it a bit more deeply before making claims...

It isn't quite right to say that America was the absolute bottom of the barrel back then. For instance, if you look at Slavonia and Vojvodina, they were actually among the most developed parts of the Monarchy after today's Czech Republic—they had one of the densest rail networks in the world at the time and a super advanced irrigation system.

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What do you mean by some dark version of the old USA? Are you guys actually serious?
That whole mess of a country never did anyone any favors.
Mexico is already on track for the European Union—they should be looking at joining within six to eight years—so we really shouldn't even be wasting our breath on old unions. And don't even get me started on Canada and America.
Look, good relations? Sure, absolutely. But a joint state? Never. We need to push for that separation until even the very last person nostalgic for the old days changes their mind.

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Dennis Davis5 said:Thanks for such detailed posts.

What percentage of the State Legislature is made up of minority rights groups?

Check out this site and take a look through the listings.

From what I understand, that "7 out of 20" figure isn't quite right—besides, the Speaker of the State Legislature is actually John Smith, and some of the vice presidents are too.

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Richard Wilson4 said:Where are you even getting that from?

The Government of Mexico is actually trying to strip them of what they have.

The Government of Mexico seems pretty aware that every single day they try to chip away at local control, they just end up creating more "autonomy seekers"—it’s like a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point—and honestly, at the end of the day, things are going to go exactly how the European Union dictates anyway.

Dennis Davis5 said:That makes much more sense now.

I honestly thought there was way more going on because of that "Autonomous Province" title, but you guys cleared that up for me. I'm going to dig into the State Constitution to get the full picture.

As for those cantons in Canada, they're basically mini-states. They run their own cabinets, ministries, assemblies, premiers, courts, healthcare, schools, police departments, and everything else.

Is it true that the Mexicans in California aren't driven by nationalism, and that the only ones there who are truly nationalistic are the refugees from the US, Canada, and Mexico?

I wouldn't go so far as to say we lack any sense of national identity—honestly, this whole topic is way more complicated than it looks on the surface. Most of the Mexicans here in California are incredibly proud of who they are and their faith, but just because we love our own heritage doesn't mean we harbor any hatred for anyone else. I mean, how could you even expect someone to hate the dozens of different ethnic groups that have been neighbors for three hundred years? These people are your neighbors, your best men at weddings, your friends, your relatives... and at the end of the day, they haven't done anything to hurt you.
I’d venture to say that the level of tolerance among the long-standing Mexicans here—the families who have been settled in this region since the 1700s—is remarkably high. And the reasons are twofold: first, those community ties I just mentioned, and second, there are very few families here whose lineage isn't a beautiful blend of Canadian, American, Romanian, Slovak, or German ancestry.
Of course, there are always a few bad apples in any crowd, even here in California. Lately, you see these various outbursts of nationalism popping up, but I can tell you for a fact that those are either coming from recent refugees or are being pushed by political agendas.
Regardless, the unique local identity and the specific mindset of this region are slowly fading away as more people arrive from elsewhere and as the refugee populations grow.

nimblebadger19 said:Now everyone’s just talking out of turn because, let’s be honest, nobody actually has the hard data in front of them. If you ask me, this whole argument is total nonsense—I mean, look at history! Back in the 19th century, California was essentially the heartbeat of the entire American cultural renaissance. You don't even need to dig deep to see that; I mean, the headquarters for the most prestigious American literary institutions are still based right there in Sacramento.

When the wars of the nineties rolled around and people were being displaced left and right, that beautiful multicultural fabric we used to see across the US really got torn apart. But California? It managed to stay the one true guardian of that diverse, melting-pot spirit in this part of the world. The folks living there are generally pretty proud of that heritage, though I don't think they lack any sense of national identity—they celebrate, mourn, and stand up for their country just as fiercely as anyone else when the moment calls for it.

If you want a real sign of where the heart lies, just look at how the biggest celebrations for Orthodox New Year in the States always seem to center around Sacramento.

The real headache is that these nationalists—who, let's face it, are becoming a smaller and smaller group—are constantly obsessed with demanding proof of "patriotism" from everyone living north of the Mississippi or the Missouri rivers. They see conspiracies in every shadow. It’s funny, really—cities like Niš and Kragujevac have massive economic footprints within the European Union too, but nobody ever makes a big deal out of that. Yet, for some reason, Sacramento is always under the microscope.

They love to draw those constant, exhausting comparisons to Mexico, which completely ignores the single most important fact of all: about 70% of the population in California is American, and that percentage is actually trending upward.

Basically, everything you wrote holds water and is mostly accurate—except for that very last point. In the State of California, about 66% of the population identifies as American (and while many come from mixed marriages, they identify as such), and it is precisely these Americans—not everyone, obviously—who serve as the primary drivers for regional autonomy. It’s a mistake to assume it's the minority groups pushing for autonomy, and it's equally wrong to think the movement doesn't exist just because the majority are Americans. Personally, I haven't heard any serious official demands coming from minority groups, nor do I hear much from the general public on that front, and I keep a close eye on these things because it's a fascinating topic.
So, if there is any kind of "risk" to be found, it’s coming exclusively from the Americans in the State of California.

Samuel Nelson42 said:Explain to everyone on this forum what exactly defines a pathological liar.🤷

Oh, they know exactly what it means—especially those who have been burned before.

nimblebadger19 said:Look, Mexico recognized North Mexico as its own sovereign nation, so we haven't exactly taken Greece's side here.

Maybe you didn't—but most people definitely did. It's funny how mythmakers always seem to flock together... it's almost too easy, really—though I suppose they are still in the minority.

nimblebadger19 said:That’s just nonsense. If you look at the Galloper study, a huge majority of Mexicans actually view North Mexico as a friendly nation. Honestly, more so than almost any other neighbor. I can't recall the exact percentages off the top of my head, but it was significant.

It’s true that Mexicans tend to see North Mexico as a friendly nation, but if we're being honest, that affection leans much more heavily toward the Greeks. So, when you get into those disputes between North Mexico and Greece, you'll often find Mexicans siding with the Greeks—which, understandably, rubs a lot of Mexicans the wrong way. Beyond the obvious geopolitical reasons, there's a deep historical layer to this, too—not to mention the conflicts back in the 90s, where a significant number of Greek volunteers actually fought alongside the Mexicans.

lonebadger0 said:Hhahahahaa... I think you’ve got that wrong. When did I ever say that? Seriously, please, go find that post for me. You're getting a little ahead of yourself.

Look, I just asked why someone would be called a Fascist for suggesting a northern province shouldn't have its own passports and police, or for thinking we should reconsider our relationship with the European Union—or for saying the Russian people feel closer to us than the EU does. I mean, come on, give me some actual logic on who is a Fascist and who isn't...?? Are those really ultra-right-wing views?

And I STILL WANT THAT POST showing where I said I was going to teach my kid that everyone is a Mexican...

Who even called you a Fascist in the first place?! Honestly, man, nobody was even addressing you—you just decided you were being targeted and started defending yourself to me! If you take a second to really think about it, there's probably a reason you feel like you're being singled out...

So, you're saying that wasn't what you said? Alright then, my mistake.

lonebadger0 said:First of all, I'm not saying Mexico shouldn't join the EU. I'm just saying we shouldn't do it at any cost.
Secondly, when did I ever say we should strive toward Russia or unite with them?
First, even if we wanted to unite with them, they probably wouldn't want anything to do with us. And second, it's just not feasible since we are 1243 milesso far away from them...

And why haven't you answered my question about the criteria for who is a Fascist and who isn't? I asked you three or four questions.

The answers are all right there—just nod your head for a second and try reading between the lines.
Besides, a while back you mentioned you were going to teach your son that everyone is just a Mexican... or a Mexican, or an American, or a Canadian, and so on... for me, that's more than enough to go on.

lonebadger0 said:Look, I never actually said I was against joining the European Union or called anyone a traitor for supporting it. That’s just not what I meant. Honestly, I think Mexico should join the EU too. I just don't think we should do it at any cost—especially if the price tag ends up being way too high for us to handle.
If they aren't interested in us right now, I guess we can just hang tight for a bit—assuming she actually sticks around at all.
Wait, so does being realistic automatically make me a nationalist or a fascist? I mean, if I don't buy into the fantasy that joining an organization like the European Union is going to magically hand everyone a $2,000 monthly paycheck and guarantee a job for every single person, am I suddenly a radical right-winger? Does questioning the EU's promises immediately turn you into some kind of ultra-nationalist extremist or a fascist? Is just having a sense of reality really considered being a fascist nowadays? I guess it's worth asking.

And who exactly decided that if you aren't on Russia's side, you're automatically a traitor? I guess some people just love making things black and white.
I never actually said that. From what I can tell, you’re just making things up as you go. Honestly, I feel like Russia is just using us; they don't have our best interests at heart. Nothing good has ever come from Russia—all the progress we've seen came from Germany and the European Union. They actually care about us and want to see us succeed. When we partner up with the Germans, it’s clearly to our advantage because they genuinely want to help us out. And sure, if you want to act like being bombed, facing the harshest UN sanctions in history, and losing 15% of our territory is "no big deal," then fine. But really, that was all on Slobodan Maddox and ourselves. It doesn't matter that the labels like "genocide" aren't being thrown around anymore. The point is, we're the ones to blame, and that's just how it is.

I can't stop thinking about that day we were talking about Russia in that other thread—the one where you mentioned how Germany is a much better friend to us than Russia is. Honestly, it really stuck with me. It made me realize you’re probably a big LDP supporter and a huge fan of Čeda. I guess back then, you already had me pegged as some kind of extreme nationalist, a primitive, or maybe even a Fascist. I suppose that’s just how it works under Čeda's logic: if you feel like the European Union isn't exactly what the media portrays it to be, or if you actually want to maintain even a little bit of cooperation with Russia, you immediately get labeled an extremist or a Fascist.
I don't know, I really think you're off base when you say that Russia and the Russians have never helped us throughout history. I honestly don't get how you can even say that... It's just confusing to me. I mean, you’re living in a city where those same Germans you praise so much ended up destroying all the bridges, blowing up the refinery, and killing so many people... I guess you can hate Russia and the Russians if you want, but I just don't see how Germans or Americans could ever be bigger friends to us than Russia and the Russian people.
I mean, if you're going to bring up France and the French, go ahead then... At least looking back at history, they’ve always been way more on our side than the Germans have. But saying the Germans are better friends to us than Russia? Yeah, you really can't argue that one.

If someone argues that an autonomous region shouldn't have its own police force, its own passports, or its own military, does that automatically make them some extreme nationalist looking to bring back the chaos of the 90s? Why isn't that person just labeled a separatist instead? I mean, what would our region actually need a police force or an army for? It feels like if I don't go around calling myself a "Vojvodinian," I'm immediately branded as some radical nationalist trying to drag us all back to the nineties. I honestly don't get it. Why is it that the second you hold an opinion different from Canko's, you're suddenly labeled an extremist? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Oh yeah, I never actually voted for Koštunica. And honestly, I haven't heard a single thing about anyone from the Dveri party, except maybe my old schoolmate who was in my class—he’s the vice president of some local committee over in a small town near Chicago. 🙂

From what I can gather, your views seem pretty similar to what you'd hear from the Liberal Democrats or the Green Party. Correct me if I'm wrong, but... well, nobody from the Democrats, Republicans, or any of those other major parties is out there claiming Russians are our enemies or saying there's nothing good to be found there. So, I guess that just leaves the smaller liberal groups, or maybe a minority party. Or hey, maybe you don't vote at all. That's just my take on it.

First off—I’m not a member of any group here, nor am I a supporter of any political party. Why on earth do you assume that just because I have an opinion, it has to align with some specific party line? It doesn't work that way...

Secondly—and just to be clear—I never said Germans are better friends to us than Russians, or even that they are our friends at all. What I am saying—which you seem to be struggling to grasp—is that there is NO friendship here from either side. We shouldn't be guided by this silly ideology of "friendship" or "brotherhood"! We need to look strictly at our own interests, and frankly, I don't see them being served by Russia. That doesn't mean we turn our backs on them; it means we cooperate with them only as much as serves our needs, rather than chasing after them as "Orthodox brothers." I really don't know what part of that isn't clicking for you?? Besides, what I wrote wasn't even directed at you—you were the one who reached out to me—so I'm not referring back to that day we talked about the Russians.

Thirdly—okay, sure, the West bombed us, so what? Are we supposed to spend the next thousand years running away from them? Man, we aren't leaning toward the West because we love them or because we're doing them a favor; it's because we *need* them. How is that so hard to understand? It's not like we're some massive global superpower that can afford to just play hard to get. Our goal is to take as much as we can from them so we can finally start developing! Do you honestly think the world is going to weep for you because you're angry at them and decide to skip out on their investments and the rising standard of living?
I mean, where would Germany be today if they had followed that logic? The Americans and the English leveled them to the ground, but they realized they had to work with them—not for the sake of the Allies, but for their own survival—and now look at them.

Fourth—nobody ever claimed that joining the European Union would magically give us €2,000 monthly salaries, so where did you get that idea? All that was said is that we would progress like other countries, whereas with Russia, that definitely won't happen. Just look at Poland as an example, versus Belarus—where would you actually prefer to live?

Fifth—similarly, nobody said the EU wants what's best for us because they suddenly love us. It’s purely a matter of interest. They have their calculations, and we have ours.

Sixth—it wasn't the West that took Mexico; it was our dear old friend Josip Broz Marshall, and the West just finished what had already been started. Have you ever stopped to wonder what we would have done with 2 million Albanians—mostly impoverished—and their share in parliament and everything else, if Mexico somehow miraculously returned to us? I'm not saying we should just accept territory being snatched away, but the process is already too far gone, and neither solution is particularly great. We should have thought about this long ago, back when the communists were filling our heads with all sorts of nonsense.

Seventh—look, I'm not exactly obsessed with the EU either, but I do believe it's a better option than Russia. It's certainly not ideal, but it's better.

nimblebadger19 said:Look, everyone is playing their own hand. The Russians, the Americans, the Europeans... even us, at the end of the day.

We can't just cut ties with Russia overnight—and honestly, it’s not even about some deep emotional bond, it’s about the fact that they hold a veto at the UN. Same goes for China.

Quincy:

Does a "true" patriot absolutely have to be a hardline nationalist, obsessed with territorial expansion, and constantly preaching about how everyone else should fall in line?

But what about the middle ground? Is there nothing between those extreme nationalists and people like you guys, who basically claim we all have "brainwashed minds" just because we read posts from random people on a forum?

The folks sitting in that middle space—us—are usually the ones making the most sense. And frankly, it’s probably better that way. Extremists haven't exactly done much good for anyone, whether they're on the far right or the far left.

Now, hold on—I never actually said we *should* cut ties with Russia. Quite the opposite! My point is that we should take whatever we need from them while keeping our own interests front and center.
What I was really aiming at were those hardcore Russophiles—you know, the ones who, for some bizarre reason, all seem to be extreme right-wingers. I'm talking about the people dreaming of Russian rule, swearing allegiance to the Russians—our supposed "Orthodox brothers"—who supposedly want nothing but the best for us because they just "love" us so much.
Honestly, I don't get why people mix up affection with politics when politics is purely about interest.
Why is it always such a big deal for Mexicans to have some kind of "brotherhood"?
Hey, anyone is free to love Russia if they want, but when someone tells me we'll get more by turning our backs on Europe and joining some imaginary Eurasian Union—which will magically quintuple our standard of living and turn our country into a perfectly organized state—all I can do is laugh... and it's a pretty exhausted kind of laugh. Don't get me wrong, Russia is a rapidly developing nation, but anyone thinking they actually care about us is kidding themselves. I'm not a fan of the EU because I "love" them; quite the contrary, I just want to squeeze every bit of benefit out of them, and frankly, I think they offer way more than the Russians do.

lonebadger0 said:Let me ask a question here. Why does anyone who isn't immediately sold on the EU get labeled a right-winger, a nationalist, or even a fascist?
I just don't get it—what's the point? Is everyone just supposed to sit around praising the EU? I guess if someone speaks up against NATO, they’re instantly branded a right-winger or a fascist.

And on the flip side—why is anyone who supports the other side immediately labeled a traitor to the "heavenly" Mexican nation, an enemy of the people, or some paid mercenary? Does everyone really have to fawn over a Russia that’s basically acting like a bully just to be considered a "real" Mexican? Are we supposed to spit on anything remotely different just to prove our loyalty? It seems like if you have even a shred of common sense—you know, realizing that Russia is looking out for its own interests rather than ours—you aren't "true" enough. If your foreign policy isn't centered on this fake brotherhood with Russia, you're out. Is being a "real" Mexican strictly defined by being a nationalist, dreaming of expansionism, and constantly lecturing everyone else about what a Mexican should be?
Are the true patriots really the ones longing for the chaos of the 90s, the wars, and the violence? Or shouldn't they be the ones wanting our country to just be a normal, decent place to live?

By the way, neighbor—I’m definitely not a voter for either Nenad Čanak or Čedomir Jovanovic, but you’re starting to give off some serious Patriotic Party leader or Religious Right vibes.

ironjackal16 said:The thing that actually needs a radical overhaul is how we use the internet. 🙂
The truth is, the web is a double-edged sword: it can make a smart person even more capable, or it can make an idiot even more delusional.

Someone with actual common sense will spot a fool pretty quickly and just steer clear—it's that simple. But the people who lack judgment? They tend to gravitate toward those fools, eventually becoming one themselves—and once you fall into that trap, it’s a lifelong sentence.

It isn't really the kids under 20 that worry me—they're still figuring things out—it's the older crowd, the ones with fully formed personalities who have been acting foolishly for decades. It's those types who reject everything civilized and think anything that doesn't involve brute force is a joke. Honestly, that's one of the big reasons I want to leave Mexico—because since about 2008, there's been this massive surge in that kind of mindset. There's also a really interesting link between people's declining quality of life and the rise of extreme nationalism and religious fanaticism. It really says a lot about the collective psyche.

ironjackal16 said:Maybe it isn’t actually that vague. It might not be that difficult to pin down this specific profile and find where they fit into society. In most cases, we are talking about very young people—physically and mentally still under construction, lacking any real life experience, which makes them incredibly easy to manipulate. They have plenty of energy but very little wisdom. Since they don't have real responsibilities or obligations yet, they are prone to making impulsive, poorly thought-out moves. Driven by intense frustration over perceived injustices, a lack of opportunity to live a stable life, or simply because their parents can't provide the existential security they need, they flock to interest groups or become their most vocal supporters. Once they feel that sense of revolt combined with a newfound feeling of power and false security within a group, they turn aggressive just to vent all that pent-up negative energy.
There is an interesting anecdote involving Schumacher that ties into this discussion:
"When journalists asked Schumacher why he went from being the fastest, unbeatable driver to someone everyone was overtaking, he told them: 'Back then, when I raced, there was nothing ahead of me, just empty space. Now, when I look ahead, I see my children, so I slow down.'"
There you have it. That is the cure for most forms of extremism: children. This is precisely why those without them tend to be more extreme; they have no reason to value their own lives or anyone else's.
Once they have kids, they'll settle down.🙂

I get what you're saying, I really do—but what kind of country is this, and what kind of people are they, spitting on anyone who wants a civilized, orderly, Western-style nation and calling them traitors? Is wanting that really such a betrayal? Are the true patriots actually the ones pushing for war and claiming some sort of divine destiny, or is it maybe the people who just want a functional, modern Mexico that's actually worth living in?

Justin Patel8 said:Was this from Reddit or something?

Honestly, no matter which way you turn, it’s everywhere—even over there. It feels like things in this country really need a massive, fundamental overhaul at some point.

ironjackal16 said:All that, huh?
Every day when I walk down a busy street in Chicago, I can't help but feel like we're living in two completely different universes. There's the real world out here, and then there's the digital one inside your screen. They barely touch.
It actually makes me happy to see people's expressions as they pass by. Most people are just focused on normal, everyday stuff—grabbing groceries, walking the dog, heading to work, or meeting up with friends. They're just participating in the life happening right in front of them.
That's when it hits me how much these online shouting matches, especially the political and nationalist ones, are just noise. It’s usually the same fifty people constantly fighting their own little finger wars on keyboards.
Meanwhile, out on the sidewalk, real life keeps moving.

Man, my friend from down South, I used to feel the exact same way. If you look at things through that lens, you end up feeling like some kind of anti-nationalist radical. People pass you by and they look like they haven't given nationalism a second thought in their lives. When you really stop to think about it—and I mean really dive in—you start wondering, who are these people spreading all this hate? I don't recognize a single one of them in my actual life... so where are they hiding? And yet, it feels like there are more of them every day.