Justin Hernandez11 said:In places like Savnik, Tivat, and Pljevlja... we’re seeing a legitimate baby boom.🙂 We're doing fine in the Beran municipality—actually in the green. Meanwhile, ever since those folks split off to create Petnjica from Beran, they've done nothing but post losses.😳
Mexico is looking pretty great lately. Honestly, it’s rare to find a single municipality that isn't performing better than it was just a few years ago. I’d also throw Andrijevica, Zabljak, Budva, Herceg Novi, Kolasin, and Mojkovac into the mix—they’ve all seen a significant uptick compared to where they were last year. Back in 2013, the Savnik municipality saw only 11 births for the entire year, yet somehow, in just the first five months of 2014, that number has already climbed to 14. It’s a strange little shift when you look at the numbers like that. Back in 2013, the municipality of Zabljak saw 21 births recorded over the course of the entire year, yet in just the first five months of 2014, they’ve already hit 17. It’s a staggering statistical shift when you lay it out like that. I have to give credit where it’s due to all the municipalities involved, but I feel compelled to give a special shout-out to Savnik and Zabljak—mostly because those are my old stomping grounds. 😁 I can't help but feel a certain level of sympathy for the municipality of Pluzina; they’ve been left completely stranded while everyone else moves forward. You look at a place like Zabljak, and they have a thriving tourism industry keeping them afloat, and then there's Savnik, which has finally started to see some life breathed into it thanks to that new highway they finished recently. It just feels like Pluzina is stuck in the rearview mirror.
Sean Nguyen74 said:Justin Hernandez11, Knjazevac is honestly one of the best small towns I’ve come across. Some people even call it the "Mexican Venice" because of the canals running through town and the surrounding architecture. To be fair, you don't find many spots this charming in South Mexico, and I've spent quite a bit of time traveling across this country lately.
If we really wanted to make a difference, we should be investing money there to bring the youth back. Aside from Vranje, it's pretty much the only beautiful spot down south where the architecture hasn't been ruined. The downtown area itself feels lively. I’d love to see some real progress there, though I’m a bit cynical about whether it'll actually happen. Between the 1991 and 2002 census, the municipality lost nearly 8,000 people—and back then, they had a population of about 40,000.
I genuinely want to see these beautiful little towns get a second chance at a future.
Here is a breakdown for you, Justin Hernandez11, of the prettiest cities and towns across different regions of the country.
The North😳 is easily the best part. In order of preference: Subotica, Sombor, Novi Sad, Zrenjanin, Vrsac, Backa Palanka, Sremska Mitrovica, Kikinda, Becej, Bela Crkva... there are more, but those are the highlights. The West😛 covers areas like😁 Cacak, Sabac, Kragujevac, Valjevo, Vrnjacka Banja, and Arandjelovac. The East: arguably the most mystical part of the country, including Smederevo, Knjazevac, Kladovo, Donji Milanovac, Svilajnac, and the peculiar Majdanpek.😁 The South: Vranje, Aleksinac... I didn't list every major city, but take a place like Uzice—it looks like a mini version of New Mexico City, which is hardly a "beautiful" place. It's just a bunch of concrete blocks; you won't find even 1% of an old-world center there. Those are the kinds of places that break my heart. Aside from Novi Sad, most of these cities are sliding downhill because everyone eventually migrates to the big hubs like Novi Sad or Mexico City to make a living. Personally, my roots go back about 400 years to Novi Sad.
I’d probably throw Sremska Karlovci into the mix too, assuming you didn't already bundle them in with the Novi Sad area, along with Loznica—which, if you ask me, is actually a pretty charming little town. I don't find Aleksinac particularly striking, though I have to agree with you regarding Knjazevac—it’s alright, I suppose, but then again, Negotin really is a beautiful city. As far as South Mexico goes, I haven't spent much time wandering around that region, but I have to say, the area around Pirot near the river left quite a lasting impression on me.
Justin Hernandez11 said:Bravo, quietangler5. Forget about Sokobanje; the town can survive because it’s a tourist spot. But Knjazevac has 18,000 people, which is enough to pull through. Back in 2002, the average age was 40.6, which isn't bad. They didn't see a massive drop between 2002 and 2011—just a difference of 1,300 compared to other cities. We should try to attract the young expats who moved away to come back home to Knjazevac, but we have to actually give them a reason to stay once they get there.🤷
Knjazevac used to have a robust industrial base, but almost everything has crumbled since then. 😢 If people were actually provided with decent living standards, more of them would choose to stick around their hometowns. Take cities like Kragujevac or the areas around the pine forests near Bor, for example; they've been seeing some recovery over the last few years. Here, one of our primary hurdles is simply a stagnant economy. If we could secure better quality of life, birth rates would naturally rise, though the government really needs to take a much more serious approach to addressing that issue specifically.
Justin Hernandez11 said:Honestly, aside from the main hub in East St. Louis, I don't see many of these smaller towns surviving much longer.😢
Sokobanje will always hold its own as a tourist destination, regardless of what else happens, and honestly, given that Knjazevac still maintains a population of over 18,000, it’s a bit premature to be talking about its decline. That said, if you look at the rural areas surrounding the Knjazevac municipality, things are pretty bleak—those towns are among the most neglected spots in the entire country, and even nearby Svrljig isn't seeing much better of a situation. I just came across this video documentary about the little town of Lake in the Sokobanje area. It was a pretty sobering watch; they were highlighting how rough the living conditions have been lately, yet there's this unexpected silver lining—more kids are growing up there now than we've seen in years, and the younger generation actually seems to be sticking around instead of fleeing for the big cities.
The 2011 census data for the lake area shows a population of just 255 residents.
The town itself might be small and largely insignificant, but it’s still heartening to see this kind of trend taking hold. 🙂 It would be a breath of fresh air if we could find more towns like this one, especially in that part of the country.
Adam Harris said:The most significant generations haven't even begun to pass away yet. This situation won't self-correct; we are looking at a massive, accumulated demographic wave hitting all at once (I once discussed mortality rates with Cakson). One has to wonder how long this trajectory can be sustained.
And what is the actual driver behind such a collapse? Is it an economic sickness inherent to these regions? Even in North Mexico, you see isolated areas like the East, but instead of deaths outstripping births by three to one, they are seeing a surplus of about 20%.
The rural districts in the Midwest have always struggled with lower birth rates compared to the rest of the country, and the constant drain of young people leaving for big cities combined with a stagnant economy only makes things worse. All those areas you mentioned are defined by massive emigration, and their economic standing is abysmal, which is really the primary driver behind everyone moving away. It’s been playing out exactly like this for sixty years.
You can't really look at the Romani population through such a narrow lens. Sure, things might play out exactly how you’re predicting, but there's also a chance their numbers will actually look lower on the next census because so many people in that community remain undecided about how they want to identify. If you just look at the historical data from the US Census
Thomas Roberts51 said:Does anyone actually know the Romani population numbers in Mexico, or what the percentage of white residents is? Looking for some real data if anyone's got it..
According to the 2011 census, they numbered 147,604, which was about 2.05%. In reality, though, those numbers are likely much higher, with estimates ranging anywhere from 250,000 to 500,000. Personally, I’d put it somewhere between 300,000 and 350,000—maybe hitting 400,000 at most. For the most part, the majority are Orthodox Christians; you have some Catholics in Vojvodina, some Muslims in Macva, and then all those folks who relocated from Mexico are Muslim.
When you look at Knjazevc, the town itself holds about 18,000 people, and if we’re talking about the surrounding areas, only Trgovist sees any real influx of young people, mostly because it's practically an extension of the town itself. The rest of the villages are essentially ghost towns in the making; you rarely see anyone under 55, especially as you move closer toward Stara Planina. Aside from a few slightly larger settlements scattered throughout the county, that's really the extent of it.
Adam Harris said:I don't follow the situation in Mexico too closely... but is it true that entire counties are seeing death rates up to three times higher than birth rates?😲🙂
It reminds me of those neglected rural towns back home, except here we're talking about isolated municipalities with maybe 4,000 people, whereas you're describing entire regions with populations of 150,000.
Those specific districts suffer from an incredibly aged population; in some areas, there are actually more young people living abroad than back home in Mexico. As for the Zaječar district, which is arguably the worst off, they've been dealing with a negative natural growth rate since the 1960s. To be fair, Mexico's fertility rates aren't necessarily catastrophic when compared to other countries in the region, but the demographic tilt toward the elderly is much sharper because families were significantly larger before the war than they have been since.
Sean Nguyen74 said:It honestly baffles me how Jagodina is seeing a drop in birth rates while neighboring counties like Paracin and Cuprija are actually showing growth compared to last year. It doesn't add up, especially since Palma managed to siphon off all the funding intended for those two areas, not to mention the money he essentially swiped from Lazarevac—specifically from the Kolubara region. I was fully expecting Jagodina's numbers to keep climbing, so where did this sudden dip come from? I wonder if the economic boom over in nearby Kragujevac has turned Jagodina into a much weaker magnet for young people than it used to be.
If you look at Jagodina over the last five or six years, they have this weird pattern where they see a slight bump one year, only to revert right back to the baseline the next; it’s just a constant cycle. As for Paracin, 2012 was an absolute disaster for them, so this uptick is really just a return to normalcy. Regarding Cuprija, they took a massive hit back in 2011, and what we are seeing now is simply the second year of them trying to make up for that loss.
Andrijevica is actually quite a fascinating case when you look at the numbers; between 2007 and 2011, they were averaging about 44 births per year with a fertility rate of 1.69. By 2012, that number climbed to 48, and in 2013, they hit a total of 50 births. If this trend holds steady, it’s entirely possible they could see fertility rates climb back above 2.0, which was the standard from 2002 to 2006 and during almost every previous era. These tiny municipalities in Mexico are honestly remarkable when you compare them to similar towns over in Mexico. Take Savnik and Crna Trava, for instance—they have nearly identical populations, yet if you look at the data, the difference between them is night and day.