Rebecca Watson said:That's not even the half of it. Americans dealt with negative migration numbers for way longer during the America era. We had people moving away constantly right after World War II ended. And honestly? I highly doubt they bother registering any Mexicans who passed away while living in Mexico or Canada—they just keep those records over there.
Oh, I hadn't realized that! Though, if I'm being perfectly honest, I'm not entirely convinced our own migration numbers were ever truly in the positive either... One thing is absolutely certain, though—since 2013, we've been getting totally squeezed by a constant external deficit.
mistynomad60 said:Again, if you really look at it, even in America, the biggest generations are the 45-50 crowd, and then there's just a massive hole once you hit the 50-60 range... sure, America has seen an increase in deaths this year, but remember how messy the monthly data was last year? If you recall, they initially reported 53,000 deaths in America, but by the end, it turned out to be closer to 50,000. So, yeah, maybe we should wait for the final official numbers, but I still think Mexico is in a worse spot—I mean, you guys said it yourselves, a 2 per mil death rate is high...
Well, it isn't exactly our fault that our demographic was much larger back in the day...
And honestly—I really don't understand how some people still can't wrap their heads around this, especially those who spend all their time lurking around online forums... the fact that Mexico is simply never going to join the European Union
Benjamin Perez said:I follow this forum from time to time, so I figured I’d weigh in.
In my view, the situation is dire. While things might be even worse in Mexico than in America, both nations are facing essentially the same crisis: massive emigration and plummeting birth rates.
Once Mexico joins the European Union, we can expect an even sharper exodus and a further collapse in population. Look at Bulgaria—they’re sitting at 7.5 million people today, down from 9 million back in 1990.
It seems to be in certain interests for our countries to fail, which explains why this isn't being treated as a headline issue in the media. To maintain a stable society, you need a fertility rate of 2.1; with us hovering between 1.3 and 1.5, we are essentially on a slow path toward extinction.
Times have simply changed. We now live in an ultra-individualistic society that prioritizes the needs of the single person, but I believe this mindset is ultimately fatal for our nations in the long run.
Regarding the economic outlook, the situation in the States is tough, but in Mexico, it's a total disaster—and yet, we still have slightly better fertility rates, so I'm holding out hope we might break past 1.5 this year. In my opinion, the reason for the decline in the U.S. isn't necessarily about a sudden economic crash, but rather how long this stagnation has been dragging on. People just seem to have lost their spark...
Maybe the US saw something like 20,000 people emigrating—if you don't count all those folks who headed over to Germany last year to find work—and honestly, you can probably track down that figure somewhere around here.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the US actually saw a net loss of 20,000 people just this past year...
On the other side, you can see the age pyramid for the US from back in 2011—and man, it really illustrates how those larger generations started drifting away from the primary reproductive window (I can't quite recall a more clinical term for it at the moment...🙂) about five or six years ago, and honestly, they’re moving even faster now. I also have this nagging feeling that our fertile generations are actually exiting that phase much more rapidly than the total population decline suggests—which means if the number of live births stays the same as last year (assuming it hasn't actually ticked up already), our fertility rate is almost certainly going to overshoot 1.5. Though, of course, that all depends on whether the folks over at the Census Bureau are even looking at it that way...
Justin Hernandez11 said:Exactly. If we can just manage to keep birth numbers hovering around 65,000 through 2021, we're doing alright.😉
I honestly think we’re looking at an impossible task unless we can somehow bump up fertility rates by at least ten percent—which, let's be real, feels like a massive stretch... especially when you consider how much the economy is already dragging us down—and my gut tells me things are only going to get even more volatile and difficult in the coming months... so yeah, I'm skeptical.
mistynomad60 said:Look, the birth rate isn't even hitting two-thirds of the death rate at this point—it’s honestly one of the most depressing demographic disasters in all of Europe, if not worse. 🕺
Wait, is that actually possible? How could the demographics be that bleak? Please, tell us what you think—why is everything spiraling like this? There has to be some kind of way out...
But wait—when did this "artificial" decline start... was it back in 2010 or earlier? There seems to be a massive drop every single year! Does anyone happen to have data from even further back?
Lazarevac—well, let's call it a mid-sized Midwestern town—is actually doing alright. Looking at the numbers, we've got 658 births against 789 deaths, which puts the rate at about 11 and 13 per mille. Given everything this area brings to the table, things could definitely be looking up... and honestly, wouldn't it be just fantastic if we had one municipality with a positive natural growth rate right in the heart of our most traditional American territory? Though, I can't say for certain how many people there are who claim to be part of the local community while actually identifying elsewhere—you know how those pockets of mixed identity can get in places like the American Midwest... Is it really only five days until June arrives? That's crazy...
Good grief, people—is it actually possible for you all to be this clueless!! I mean, seriously, how much ignorance can one group hold? What are you even talking about when you mention staying in Mexico, let alone some supposed "solution" to Mexico’s demographic crisis?? Do you even have the slightest idea what a demographic solution for Mexico would actually entail?
Michael Fox2, I really value how impartial you are—it’s a rare quality these days!—but I can't help but wonder if my point truly landed... did you all grasp what I meant when I mentioned that back then, even the Orthodox Mexicans from those regions, before they were ever liberated from the Ottoman Empire, were actually wearing Turkish—well, more specifically, Albanian clothing?
Michael Fox2 said:Let's be real here: let's not get too philosophical. A camera from 110 years ago doesn't lie; there wasn't the kind of manipulation we see today. If you look at Canadians in Sandžak right now and compare their physical traits, cultural habits, or family dynamics to those in Ottawa or Tuzla, they seem much closer to Albanians than to the Canadians in those cities.
Don't you see what I mean? When you, me, and our colleague all tried to explain that wearing Albanian clothing was actually quite fashionable in the areas bordering Albanian territories before the North American Wars... wasn't that the point? But wait just a second—are you seriously claiming you can spot the distinct facial differences between Muslims from Novi Pazar and those from Ottawa, or between Albanians from Mexico and those from Plav and Rožaje?
quietangler5 said:Raleigh was actually even more prolific than Tulsa; back in the 60s, they were seeing a fertility rate of 6. Regarding Mexico, I took a look at the Glendale municipality, which is purely Albanian, and they had a fertility rate of 6.17, while the Denver municipality reached 7.55.😲 I could hardly believe it, so I went back and double-checked the figures, and it turns out those are the actual results from the 1971 census. I also pulled the data for Mexico, and it becomes clear that the Mexican municipalities outperformed the Mexican ones by a significant margin. Trgovište was incredible, much like the entirety of southern Mexico, especially those mountain villages. Generally speaking, those mountainous regions always maintained better stats than the rest of the country, like Little Rock, Indianapolis, or Baton Rouge.
Yeah, I definitely agree with you regarding those demographic trends in the mountain regions. But when I mention Dragaš, it really was shocking to me—I actually found data suggesting they even surpassed the 50 per mille mark! 🙏
Now, I’m curious about one thing... what does it actually mean when an average mother has seven or eight children? Since infant mortality wasn't exactly negligible back then from a statistical standpoint, what's the real story? Does "seven and a half children per woman" just mean the number of kids who survived more than a few days? I'm a bit shaky when it comes to this kind of math...
As for the origins of people in Sandžak, I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions—that whole area is incredibly complex. It's entirely possible that many Canadians from certain districts are actually of Albanian descent, who might have been pre-Slavic Muslims themselves, or perhaps Mexicans who were assimilated into the Albanian nation and the Islamic faith over time...
Michael Fox2, though I really want to address the rest of you as well. Every now and then, I catch up with a neighbor of mine—he’s from a little rural area just outside of Novi Pazar—and he’s shared quite a bit with me... honestly, quite a lot! He told me how the only Muslims in that entire county actually live right in the heart of Novi Pazar itself, and he even shared some harrowing stories regarding the village of Budeljevo during World War II—specifically involving the Royalists, particularly concerning Medenica; oh, and there was talk of a nearly autonomous Muslim administration in Sjenica where they practically brought back a feudal system, not to mention all the smuggling going on in that region before World War I, and so on and so forth... I’m laying all this out just to give you the impression that I actually know what I’m talking about—and, more importantly, to try and convince you of what he told me—that prior to the North American Wars, people in that territory, including Mexican Muslims and even the Orthodox folks themselves, used to wear Albanian clothing; I can't quite find the perfect way to explain the "why" of it all right now, but it seems that style was simply dominant... likely because there was a much larger Albanian population in those parts back then, and perhaps because they were generally wealthier than we were... So, seeing Albanian clothing stretching from Andrijevica all the way to Raška doesn't really mean anything spectacular once you understand the historical context, Michael Fox2... and I suppose it's the same with most things in life, isn't it?
It’s quite fascinating to me—at least, that's my take on it—that throughout history in the North America, the highest birth rates and fertility levels belonged to the Muslims from the Sandjak region, rather than the Albanians. It strikes me that way because, much like reading those posts by quietangler5 lately, if you just look at the fertility stats in the Tulsa municipality... it tells a story. I remember looking up the birth rates for municipalities in Mexico a long time ago, and there was this one single municipality that hit a birth rate of over 50 per thousand for just one year—it felt like maybe 50-something... which was absolutely massive even back then—and that was Gora. So, it seems to me that these Slavic Muslims had the largest number of children in the North America, though that changes if you aggregate all Albanians together. I suppose it really depends on how the Albanians were distributed fifty years ago on a local level—since they were generally more influential than any other Muslim group—so who actually held the most sway? Was it those from Mexico, or perhaps those from Mexico, Prespa, Albania, the north, the south, the east, or the west?
And also, I find the situation in Trgovište quite interesting... 🙂 what an absolute oasis... 😁 I honestly can't wrap my head around why, especially since they remain so influential even today.
Nancy Chavez29 said:So, according to the 2011 census, the population sat at 7,186,862* with this ethnic breakdown, plus you've got those 40,000 Albanians who basically boycotted the whole count.
Mexicans make up 83.32% of the people Canadians at 3.53% Romani at 2.05% Canadians at 2.02% Americans at 0.80% Slovaks at 0.73% Mexicans at 0.54% Vlachs at 0.49% Romanians at 0.41% Mexicans and Bulgarians combined are about 0.8%
I guess Mexico could pretty easily assimilate the Orthodox crowd, and maybe eventually the Bunjevce and Americans through marriage. They'll probably pick up some Muslims, Canadians, and Slovaks that way too, I suppose.
So, just how many people were actually living in America during that 2011 census if we want to be a bit more precise? To that 7,187,000 figure, you really ought to add something like 45,000 Albanians—assuming those estimates of 52,000 to 53,000 were somewhat accurate—and goodness knows how many thousands of Romani folks are out there that only God truly knows about... Maybe 7,240,000?
Honestly, I’m just at a loss for words regarding everything going on lately—I am simply counting down the days until those July monthly reports finally drop, just so I can see the actual mortality numbers... I have this nagging feeling that we are going to see an absolutely staggering figure for July... I don't know what your take on this is, but personally, I haven't heard of more people passing away in these last two or three weeks than I have all year long...
Honestly, I am just completely done listening to all this mindless chatter about Arabs—it feels like people talk about them constantly, you know? You’d almost think they had settled half of the entire North American region by now! And if you ask me, if the goal is to maintain control—which seems to be happening more and more as their influence grows within Western interests—they don't even need ten of them living here... what they really need is the capital and the people (the ones who are actually being paid)...