I guess you could say light plays a huge role when you're dealing with depression. Just think about it—imagine if someone’s entire life, or even the lives of the people around them, hinged on whether a few extra rays of sunshine managed to hit their eyes or not. Maybe that light is what triggers those old memories, you know? Like when you were just a kid back in the day, able to just run outside and play whenever the weather was nice. There's something about sensory stuff—like being in a bright room on a sunny afternoon—that can act as a nudge, reminding you that there's actually a brighter side to life worth looking forward to.
Some people just get completely crushed by how they look or their financial situation, or whatever else is weighing them down. I heard this story about a guy talking to a therapist where things got pretty intense. He was in such a dark place, totally desperate, and started talking about ending it all. But the therapist couldn't really talk him through it right then, so she just told him, "Hey, go clean up your room, and I'll check in with you soon." So, he opens up two drawers, organizes his stuff, puts everything where it belongs, and honestly? He felt better almost immediately. He managed to pull himself out of that headspace just by doing that.
When you ignore your own appearance, the state of your room, your house, or even just the trash on the street, it all adds up. I truly believe that the chaos in our surroundings eventually starts reflecting in our own minds. By tidying up your little corner of the world—taking care of yourself and your environment bit by bit—you start feeling a sense of control and relief. That said, I guess extreme perfectionism or being too high-strung can be just as bad. It’s like that old saying about someone getting so worked up over a tiny detail at a wedding—like the band showing up late—that it ruins the whole night. Too much pressure can be just as paralyzing.
At the end of the day, I suppose the goal is for a person not to be controlled by everything happening around them, or even by their own body, but to be the one in the driver's seat. To be able to think critically, stay independent, and actually take action alongside others to help build a better world.
I guess a lot of psychologists and psychiatrists—maybe even all of them—have probably noticed just how intense the neuroses and psychoses of their patients can be. Their irrational reactions are so deep that even simple words can trigger unwanted responses. It’s like patients aren't even capable of listening because they’re just too caught up in the storm of their own thoughts, feelings, and those pre-set attitudes that just overwhelm them. So, usually, they just get "medicated" to calm things down.
In a lot of cases, medication acts more like a way to "cement" a state of being rather than actually curing anything. Since we don't really know the root cause, it's hard to even approach it. I mean, most of these drugs seem designed just to quiet someone down so they don't end up doing something terrible to themselves or the people around them.
Human experience is so deeply individual that things like colors, sounds, smells, tastes, body movements, or even specific phrases can have these unique echoes in someone. If you're talking to someone dealing with a mental disorder, it’s incredibly hard to track those subtle triggers. These sensations hit the subconscious, but honestly, they affect everyone. Like, imagine you’re sitting there, totally zoned out, deeply immersed in whatever you're doing, while people are just babbling in the background. You aren't even paying attention, but then suddenly, someone says your name and you "wake up" and start following the conversation. That cluster of sounds triggered a reaction because some part of you was listening even when your conscious mind wasn't. All these little experiences basically map out our internal paths.
Psychology looks at how we learn, right? There’s this idea that the best way to learn a skill is to practice it in the exact environment where you’ll actually need it. But then there’s the other side, which says we learn best through associative pathways—using images, sounds, or mnemonics. And in moments of extreme intensity, like when someone is facing a life-threatening situation, time seems to slow down and all your senses sharpen. Or even in something like intimacy, if you're fully present and using your whole body, you absorb the experience much more intensely. Because the experience is so multi-sensory and powerful, you remember it much better.
Thoughts move at an incredible speed—especially the subconscious ones—and associations fly even faster, especially when emotions get involved. This is how we drift away from our logical path toward certain ideas, which is what people call intuition... and that happens to both healthy people and those who are struggling. But eventually, habits set in. When you watch a heavy smoker who lights up automatically in almost any situation, or any process where someone reacts out of pure habit, it happens so fast the person doesn't even realize they're doing it. I think by breaking those habits, we might be able to pull ourselves back into the present and break those thought loops.
It’s kind of like when someone tries to tie a complex knot after ten years of not doing it; their hands just sort of take over without them having to think about it. The way habits are stored in our bodies essentially "calls" our organs into action. Even the way we hold our bodies, sit, lie down, or move our hands can trigger those same associative pathways used in thinking. If a certain posture is tied to a negative reaction, our body can drag us right back into those old memories, anxieties, racing thoughts, or fears of past traumas repeating themselves in the future.
That’s why some people resort to self-harm—to feel physical pain as a way to escape the mental kind. But, I suppose it would be much simpler to just start confronting our habits, working to break them, and trying to develop new skills and fresh experiences instead.
Wikipedia says... "We include among psychological processes..." and honestly, I feel like they could go on forever with that list. It’s one of those things where you start reading about how the mind works and suddenly you're three hours deep into a rabbit hole about consciousness or memory or whatever. I guess it's just one of those massive, sprawling topics that feels impossible to pin down perfectly, you know? There's so much going on under the hood of our brains that even the experts probably argue over where one process ends and another begins. Maybe that's just the nature of it, though. I guess I've been spending a lot of time lately just sitting there, trying to untangle all my thoughts, feelings, and what actually drives me to get out of bed in the morning. It’s kind of a lot to process, you know? Like, sometimes you think you have a handle on why you do certain things, but then you start digging deeper and realize everything is a little more complicated than that. It’s like looking at a messy map where none of the roads quite connect the way you expected them to. I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it, but I feel like understanding those internal motivations—the real, raw stuff behind our emotions—is pretty much the whole game. Just trying to figure out the "why" behind the "what," I suppose.So, if you look back at how things used to be, psychology was actually just considered a branch of philosophy for the longest time. It wasn't really its own thing until 1879, when that first official psychology lab finally opened up over in Boston. Even after that, though, it took forever to get full recognition—I think it wasn't until around 1980 that everyone finally started treating it like a legitimate natural science. It's kind of wild how long that transition took, I guess.
I guess you could say that thoughts are basically just the stepping stones we use to reach our feelings and motivations. At least, that’s how it seems to me, anyway—at least for as long as I can remember. But honestly, I think there's more going on under the hood. We're also kind of at the mercy of these deep-seated associative pathways that start forming way before we even take our first breath. Then, of course, you've got those raw, instinctive drives we're just born with... it's all pretty wild when you really sit down and think about it.
I guess if I were starting from scratch, I’d probably set aside those inherited issues that stem from biochemical imbalances—you know, the stuff caused by organs just not functioning quite right. Then, I’d dive straight into why it's so hard for people to actually respect different perspectives. It feels like that lack of openness is exactly what creates, sustains, or even makes things worse when you're trying to treat mental health struggles or any kind of psychological difficulty.
Maybe there's some value in breaking it down like this: you know how sometimes people say someone is smart, or maybe they call them intelligent, or even just sensible? It’s almost like different flavors of praise for how a person functions in general. I guess if you look at it that way, you could actually argue there are three distinct ways of thinking going on here.
Smart. I guess what I’m trying to say is that it all comes down to how we learn things along the way. It’s like, once you go through certain experiences, your mindset kind of locks in. You start viewing everything through that specific lens, and then you basically just end up reacting to whatever happens in the real world based on those old patterns. It’s almost like you're just running on autopilot, mimicking stuff you've already seen before. Maybe that's just how our brains are wired, I suppose.
I guess you could call them smart, if you really want to get technical about it. Maybe. It’s one of those things that depends on how you look at it, I suppose. I guess you could say it’s those types of people who—no matter how much experience or background they already have under their belt—just seem to have this weird ability to suddenly soak up a massive amount of new info all at once. It’s like they can just download a whole new skill set and immediately start using it to figure things out. I don't know, maybe it's just how their brains work, but they can find a solution out of nowhere after absorbing everything.
I guess I should probably say something here, though I’m not entirely sure if anyone is even listening. It feels like we’re all just circling the same drain, doesn't it? Maybe I'm overthinking things, but I can't help but feel like there's a certain logic—or a lack thereof—that we aren't quite addressing. I mean, it’s not that everything is falling apart, per se, but things definitely feel... off. I don't know. Just a thought. I guess you could say these are the folks who actually put their brains to work—you know, people who don't just react, but really dig deep into what they know. They take a new situation, weigh it against everything they’ve been through before, and then... well, they actually stop. They take a beat, maybe even a full-on breather, just to sit with the consequences of whatever is happening. It's like they're being super critical of their own past experiences, trying to be wise about it, all in an effort to hunt down some creative, better way to handle things. Maybe that's just how they're wired, I suppose.
I guess I’m thinking about those people who are, honestly, brilliant—like, scary smart—but they just can't seem to hit the pause button. You know the type? Their emotions run so hot that they just rush headlong into conclusions. They jump the gun, make these snap judgments about everyone they meet, and even though they’ve got all this raw intellect and years of experience under their belt, they somehow end up losing out. It’s kind of wild how they consistently get passed over by the folks who are actually thoughtful and wise. It seems to me like the more you remember, or the more deeply you think you understand a subject, the harder it becomes to actually pivot. If you’ve spent decades building up a massive mental library of how things "work," you might find it tougher to adapt to the subtle nuances of something new. You get stuck in these little mental pigeonholes, maybe leaning a bit too heavily on old biases or just trying to shove everything into neat little boxes to make sense of it. It makes you way more prone to reacting purely on impulse or emotion. And because of that, I suppose it's easier for them to be cast aside, becoming an easy target for whatever backlash or frustration the people around them are feeling.
I’ve been thinking lately... maybe treating mental illness isn't really about medication, but more about gaining this total ability to control your own thoughts. Like, if you could just master your mind so that those intense emotional reactions don't even happen in the first place? Because once that wave hits you, you aren't really "you" anymore. You're just caught up in an affect, totally at the mercy of your own body and its crazy biochemical reactions. Honestly, it feels just like being under the influence of some heavy-duty drugs or a massive dose of pills. It's wild how much our biology can just take over the driver's seat.
So, you’ve got those super religious types suggesting you just dump all your suffering onto some voodoo doll, or maybe the spiritual gurus want to introduce you to this "observer" thing. It’s basically a technique where you go about your day like normal, but you start paying really close attention to the flow of your own thoughts. You track how intense your feelings get, noticing exactly when they pop up, and you try to remember even the tiniest details throughout the day—everything from your breathing and the words you use to little habits, hand movements, or how your muscles react when something triggers you. I guess, speaking from my own experience, it’s actually a pretty great way to handle things. By putting a bit of your focus and energy into just observing, that initial emotional reaction starts to lag behind. It loses its edge because you're too busy watching it happen. Eventually, you start getting to know yourself, and honestly, you end up finding yourself kind of hilarious sometimes. Once you hit that point, you're much better at channeling your willpower into totally different directions. I truly think this habit of self-remembering and being mindful of your inner life is what actually gives you freedom.
So, what does "hitting" even mean here? Like, is someone actually cracking walnuts, or are we talking about someone getting clobbered in the head? I guess it depends on how you look at it, maybe.
So, I was thinking about this idea of forcing all these different things under one single umbrella just to make them easier to generalize... I don't know. Maybe there’s some kind of common thread running through these examples that I'm just missing, or maybe there really isn't one at all. Aside from the act of grouping them together, that is. I guess it's hard to say for sure without looking closer.
When it comes to this whole biblical thing, I guess my take is that the whole point was really about blind obedience to God. It feels like the people acting as His representatives just used that idea to justify their own power—basically making things absurd just so they could keep control. And honestly? Stone lasts forever, but salt just washes away so fast. Plus, there are parts of the story where salt is everywhere, which kind of makes it feel pretty meaningless at that point.
It looks like even Jesus was inspired by that kind of "inappropriate" behavior: "Luke 9:62, Jesus tells him..."I guess you could say that anyone who puts their hand to the plow and keeps looking back over their shoulder just isn't cut out for the Kingdom of God. It’s like, if you can't stay focused on the road ahead, maybe you aren't meant for the journey, I suppose."
To me, taking a step back to really look at things takes actual guts. It’s about having the courage to truly know—to just be there and actually listen to both sides of the story. I guess the alternative, at least from what I can tell, is just manufacturing this whole atmosphere of paranoia and fear, basically feeding into the psychosis that already had someone feeling totally overwhelmed.
Everything’s been running smooth for a while, but then out of nowhere, I can't even read the posts at the bottom of the page anymore—it just cuts off after the first ten or so. I tried switching to the text-only version, but nope, same exact thing happens. I’m honestly stumped on what to do here. Everything else on my PC seems to be working totally fine, and I’ve already tested this across a bunch of different browsers like Google Chrome, Internet Explorer, and Google Chrome, but once the glitch starts, it hits all of them. I really don't get why this is happening or how to fix it. I do run a registry cleaner and clear things out with CCleaner every once in a while, though maybe not often enough, I guess. I’m using a wireless connection through a T-Mobile dongle, too. Refreshing the page doesn't seem to do a damn thing...
Chris Lopez59 said:When you look at the physical body, sure, that makes sense. But does the soul actually form at conception, or was it already hanging around somewhere before that, just waiting to latch onto a new vessel?
Look, if you're truly willing to go there, just find someone to perform a hypnotic regression on you and record whatever nonsense comes out about your past lives.😉
I mean, I realize there are plenty of Christians out there who would be absolutely miserable if they were ever confronted with actual, concrete evidence suggesting that reincarnation might be a real thing, mostly because it would basically throw parts of the Bible out the window.
But honestly, regardless of what the ultimate truth turns out to be, since we're all just operating in a massive void of knowledge—which is exactly why we rely on faith in the first place—it remains a very real possibility, especially since we can't definitively prove what's true anyway.
Man, I would love that. Do you happen to know anyone you could recommend? Ideally, someone who isn't too far from Los Angeles.
I mean, I get it—there are probably a ton of Christian believers out there who would be pretty uncomfortable if they actually ran into concrete proof that reincarnation might be a real thing. It’s a heavy thought, I guess. If that were ever proven, it feels like it would totally undermine parts of the Bible, wouldn't it? Just a weird thing to wrap your head around, maybe.
The way I see it, the Bible actually points toward at least three different realms. You’ve got this world where we’re all living our lives, then there’s the realm of the dead—which is interesting because they aren't exactly "gone," they're still existing in some capacity. Then, depending on God’s will or during certain moments involving His son Jesus, people might rise from the dead, pass away again, or even ascend into an intermediate space, or maybe just show up in visions like spirits. Finally, you have that third state where Jesus prepares a place for those who believe, which is where everyone settles after Judgment Day. So, my takeaway? Based on how the Bible is written, reincarnation kind of happens, or at least something similar does. I mean, I don't really know how else you'd interpret things like the idea that John the Baptist is Elijah coming back, or stuff like that. As for me personally, I’m a Christian—about as much as my brother's Maltese is a shark. (And I don't even have a brother, haha).
I mean, look, regardless of what the actual truth is, when you're stuck without any real way to know for sure—which is basically why faith even exists in the first place—it’s definitely a possibility. I guess if we can't actually prove what's true, then anything goes, right? Maybe.
If there’s even a chance this is true, then I guess it’s just one more of those little gems God tucked away when He was putting the world together—though it makes you wonder why He’d be so secretive about it all, right?
Chris Lopez59 said:Are you really feeling that strongly about it?
I can't help but wonder if our arrival here is actually the result of some deep soul-level free will, where we specifically chose this exact life before we even got here.
I don't know, man. I mean, it feels more like free will is just a bunch of nonsense... at least until someone proves otherwise.
If someone can actually prove to me that I'm the reincarnation of some ancient shaman from the Middle East, then maybe I'll give it some serious thought.
Amy Scott71 said:Yeah, that was my whole playbook. I lived for others, focused on the collective good, and ended up taking hits for the team—which, naturally, meant my own social life took a beating too.
But looking back, it's pretty clear to me now that humans are inherently selfish, so I'm officially retired from those kinds of adventures; I've secured my own peace and quiet.
ps Anyway, I just spent a few hours scrolling through this subforum to see what's what, and I bumped two threads back to life just to chime in.
I haven't stumbled onto anything particularly "spiritual" yet; you've got the moderator acting like a big shot, and then everyone else just hunting for answers and some higher purpose.
A lot of this stuff doesn't even have much to do with spirituality, so I honestly can't wrap my head around what people are actually doing here, but hey, to each their own... I wish everyone luck and the strength to stick to their guns.
So, I've been out here searching for something good, just kind of reflecting on things, you know? Just one of those random thoughts hitting me.
So, I was thinking about this thing from the Bible earlier—you know, how it describes God as being jealous? It’s such an interesting concept when you really sit with it for a second. I mean, it's kind of a wild way to frame things, right? Just a thought that's been rattling around in my head.
So, you're saying that people are just inherently bad by nature—which, I mean, I guess I could probably dive a bit deeper into how I landed on that conclusion if you really want to get into it—but then you look at the state of the world today and... well, just look at this mess:
I guess you could say being human is kind of like being "thrown" into existence—nobody exactly checked with us first to see if we actually wanted to show up, right?
So, look, we’re all here trying to find our footing and carve out a space for ourselves, mostly because most people aren't exactly wired for masochism, right? I mean, let's be real—most of us aren't out here chasing fame or trying to become the next big CEO just for the sake of ego. Most people are just trying to live a decent, normal life on this planet. But even when you're just trying to exist peacefully, life tends to throw some stuff at you. It's like, you're just cruising along, and then you run into these things:
It feels like everyone is just constantly clashing with one another in every way imaginable. I mean, honestly, a huge chunk of people across America are basically just fighting tooth and nail over tiny scraps of land or whatever resources they can grab just to keep food on the table and stay afloat. It’s kind of heavy when you think about it, I guess. I guess I’ve been stuck in these deep, existential headspace loops lately... just thinking about life and everything. It’s one of those things that hits you out of nowhere, you know? One minute you're fine, and the next, you're staring at the ceiling wondering what any of this actually means. Maybe it's just me being overly dramatic, but sometimes the big questions feel a little heavy. I mean, honestly, we can't really call that kind of thing "charity" or "kindness." It’s just not right to frame it that way. Think about it—so many incredible artists, brilliant scientists, and those unsung heroes who shaped our world didn't have it easy. They weren't just handed a living; they were forced by circumstance to grind and hustle just to survive. It was necessity, plain and simple, not some grand act of generosity. I guess when you look at it that way, calling it "goodness" feels a bit off, maybe even a little misplaced.
I don't know, it feels like death is just lurking around every corner lately, you know? Like, one minute you're fine, and the next, sickness hits or you're dealing with that soul-crushing boredom that comes from having zero opportunities because of poverty. It makes you start questioning if any of this even matters. And then there’s the whole thing with physical desires... I mean, nobody asks for those, right? You're just born with them, whether you want them or not. It seems like people everywhere are just constantly battling these basic struggles. Even the weather—the atmosphere itself—really messes with how our bodies feel and honestly, probably even how much we can actually focus or learn on any given day. It’s heavy stuff. And then there's the darker side of survival, where we have to basically destroy or change nature just to put food on the table... I guess even the most extreme stuff, like cannibalism, isn't entirely out of the question in the grand scheme of things. It’s no wonder people are scared to have kids these days. I mean, if you can barely scrape by yourself, how are you supposed to give a child a decent life? People are too wrapped up in these massive existential anxieties to even enjoy the little things. Everything feels so high-stakes. Even when it comes to the consequences of our actions—whether it's a full-blown war or just some stupid argument with a neighbor—the connection between what we do and what happens next feels so blurry. We're constantly second-guessing ourselves, forced to watch others get torn apart, either figuratively or, well, literally. And then you add in all the different moral codes, religions, and cults... there are just so many ways to look at the world, and honestly, it's overwhelming. There's no clear roadmap. It feels like these endless hardships are just forcing us to... well, I guess I'll stop there. It's a lot to process. I guess I'm just looking around, trying to find something... maybe? Not sure what I'm searching for yet, honestly. Just kind of browsing. It’s like... there's this higher purpose to everything, I guess. It’s not something you just stumble upon all at once, either. It sort of reveals itself to you, slowly, as you go along. Maybe that's just how it works.GodSo, what I'm trying to get at is... how can people actually be "good"—you know, like truly recognized as good people—when they're living within systems that are just fundamentally broken? Like, how do you find those little pockets of goodness or manage to stay upright during the pauses between all the absolute chaos and messiness of life? I guess it’s about finding those moments of grace when everything else is falling apart.
I guess I actually see things the complete opposite way. If you ask me, people are pretty much good at heart by nature, you know? It’s just that life tends to throw so much crap at us—it can be so forced and honestly just plain unsatisfying sometimes. People end up searching for answers and trying to find a way out of the mess, but... They just don't get it, I guess. I mean, it’s just human nature to mess up and end up disappointed, you know? We all fall into those same old patterns and bad habits. I wouldn't go so far as to say people are inherently evil, though. It feels more like the world itself—or Mother Nature, or even God, if you want to look at it that way—is just set up that way. But then you get into the tricky stuff. If God is jealous and goes around punishing people just because they actually enjoy being alive, then what does that even say about the whole concept of a higher power? Or the idea of freedom and goodness? I guess if we don't actually have the freedom to choose our own path, then nobody is truly "good." We're all just doing whatever we think is best in the moment to survive. It’s a bit of a head-scratcher, really.
It feels like people just don't know much anymore, you know? Awareness is pretty low, and honestly, I feel like the ability for folks to actually step up and help one another isn't exactly where it needs to be. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like we're all kind of stuck in our own little bubbles lately. I mean, if you really think about it, that whole thread of just trying to be a decent human being... it kind of stretches back through all of history, doesn't it? It’s like this constant, ongoing effort that we've always been making. I guess you could say it's woven into everything we've ever done. Despite all the threats from religious fanatics and those endless cycles of violence between different groups... I don't know, it honestly impresses me how many quiet, unassuming people out there just try their best to live an honest life. At least, it does for me. But then again, most people just go through life without ever really knowing the truth. Personally, I don't see inherent evil in people. I think it’s more about that struggle—that inability to reconcile personal beliefs and conflicting views. It’s like they can't find a way to bridge the gap, and then things just spiral, and you end up with people losing their minds or getting caught up in chaos. Maybe that's just how it is.
It’s hard to say anything truly profound about something this heavy, but I guess I can offer my two cents if it helps at all.
Losing a father to suicide is just... it's devastating. There's no other way to put it. But I suppose the human psyche is kind of like a tree—it has roots and branches reaching out in all these different directions. I don't know what the relationship was like between your brother and his dad, so I realize grief moves at its own pace and looks different for everyone. That said, I think what keeps a person grounded is the web of connections they have with the world around them—everything from work or college, to a girlfriend, buddies, hobbies, even just going for walks, the food they eat, their clothes, where they live, stuff like that. If all those connections start snapping one by one, and if someone stays withdrawn for too long without any genuine, loving support to lean on, I honestly don't think that's a good sign.
Since you guys aren't living in the same city, maybe there isn't a whole lot you can physically do to help him right now. But, I've always been a bit of a believer in those weird, almost psychic connections we have with people. Something tells me that we can actually influence each other just through the way we direct our thoughts. Maybe try sending some prayers or just some really positive energy his way every once in a while.
I feel like you might be able to help him indirectly just by being present and doing things with good intentions. You probably don't want to push the conversation about his dad too hard, and you shouldn't overdo the condolences either, but you also can't act like nothing happened. It's a delicate balance. Just find a way, a time, and a middle ground where you can both express that you care and that you're there for him through this.
Patrick Sullivan3 said:Thanks for such an interesting response; it really gave me something to chew on.👍 To me, Jesus represents something noble, and I am sincerely convinced that modern Christianity has almost nothing to do with him or his actual teachings. They just use him as a mascot or a scapegoat to judge others, nothing more.
When you mention that Jesus didn't get close to women, are you talking about sexual intimacy, romantic love, or something else?
You should probably check out the reply over in the religion subforum—it’s under that thread about the best Bible verses.
I really hope we've finally reached a point where people actually get this and start focusing on building up their own individual consciousness.
But what even is "individual consciousness" anyway? Honestly, a massive lawsuit is just inevitable at this point... They seriously need to settle these ownership disputes once and for all. Like, who actually owns what in this mess?!
That's a fair question, I guess. Since we're all separated by how we perceive, understand, and remember things, we aren't really "one" in that sense. But in terms of constant mutual influence and just existing within the same Universe, yeah, we definitely are.
The world basically gives us a choice of which "gravitational field" we want to surrender to. Most of the time, I don't think we even own ourselves—except maybe for those brief moments when we're actually "awake." Everything else is just our brains processing gathered info and influences through the lens of physical laws.
I mean, I guess you could say this whole thing stems from a bit of a masochistic streak in us. It’s like, humans are naturally terrified of the unknown, right? But we’re also scared of pretty much any kind of force or raw energy that we feel might just wipe us out. So, instead of facing it head-on, we end up developing this weird sense of reverence—kind of a fear-based respect, if that makes sense. Maybe that's just how we're wired.
From everything I’ve picked up from people so far, it seems like nobody actually knows for sure if God exists. But man, there is just so much we don't get about how our own heads work—you know, how our psyche and perception mess with the world around us? I guess when we observe something or even just take a stand on an object, we’re kind of influencing it, though I don't think we're even aware of all the ways we do that yet. It's kind of like how we already know the Sun and the Moon have this massive impact on life here on Earth; I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually figure out just how much influence the rest of the planets have, too. Maybe we'll catch up to it sooner than we think.
So, let me circle back to that whole thing about God and... well, masochism, I guess. It’s kind of wild how we work. Basically, because people are terrified of things they can't predict, they try to micromanage and control everything they perceive as a threat. It's like this survival instinct, right? Every single one of us experiences that fear of the unknown in our own heads, though I suppose we all process it differently—some people feel it more intensely than others, and it probably hits harder depending on what kind of day you're having. I've noticed that the folks who are constantly grinding or living in total chaos don't usually struggle with this as much. Maybe it's because their minds are just too occupied by the immediate, surface-level stuff—just reacting to whatever is happening right in front of them—to really dwell on the deeper, scarier uncertainties. Or maybe they're just too busy to care. I don't know, it's just a thought.
I mean, no matter how hard you try to wrap your head around the chaos of life, there are always these little gaps—sort of like when your brain takes a breather from all that heavy lifting. It’s like that moment when your operating system finally stops lagging for a second. And honestly, I guess when you're just sitting there in that quiet headspace, it's impossible not to start spiraling into the big questions. You can't really escape thinking about what it all means. It's like conscience just kind of wakes up on its own, forcing you to weigh the whole idea of good versus evil against the actual life you're living. It's heavy stuff, I know.
Most people, I guess... He just doesn't want to. I mean, you look at people wrestling with these deep questions, and then they try to justify their choices by just following whoever claims to "know more" than they do—basically deciding to join some organized religion just to settle the score. To me, it feels like religion is really just an escape from your own conscience, a way to run away from God. It’s like the more fear someone carries, the more they lean into religion. Usually, religion just takes that fear and tries to rationalize it, offering up these explanations or lists of rules to tell you exactly how to please God. But since most people are so caught up in the daily grind and their own personal anxieties, I guess they lose the ability to see how complex or even nonsensical those rules actually are. Still, that little spark of free will stays there, poking at them. So, the fear just keeps building, and it turns into this weird, almost masochistic urge to surrender control to something "greater" than themselves. They end up performing all these bizarre rituals just to appease their version of God.
I mean, if you really think about it, the absolute worst case in history is probably... JesusSo, I was thinking about this guy who basically tried to crucify himself because he didn't actually have faith in God. It’s kind of wild when you look at it. He was trying to fill this massive void in his life by just throwing himself at everyone—trying to serve the whole world instead of actually building deep, meaningful connections with specific people, like starting with women, I guess. He was basically compensating for his own emptiness by surrendering to this vague idea of "society" or the future. He wanted to be this martyr for the world, which ended up just making him paranoid about God and super conflicted about his own purpose. Because he chose to give himself up to a bunch of strangers rather than being present for real, individual people, he became this ultimate icon for all the "lost sheep" out there. You know, the people who either can't or won't engage in honest, close relationships? For them, "God" becomes a substitute for actual family and friends. It makes sense why people who love following the crowd find him so appealing. It's way easier to look for some hero who’s willing to die for you than it is to actually do the hard work on yourself. Real self-improvement is painful; it’s exhausting, it requires a ton of humility, and you really have to face that terrifying fear of death—what some might call "reconciling with God." But yeah, it's much easier to just wait for a savior than to deal with the struggle.
I really hope we’re finally reaching a point where people start to get this—where they actually focus on building their own consciousness and learning how to trust life again, both in their relationship with God and with each other. I mean, if you look at it, the answer is pretty clear: hardly anyone is brave enough to just say, "I don't know." And even fewer people are honest about being angry at God because they’re terrified of Him. Instead of having a relationship built on sincerity and respect, a lot of folks act like masochists, treating God like some kind of cosmic sadist. What’s worse is that they actively reject their own divinity; they shy away from having their own will or taking responsibility for their actions, which is the only way to truly be in community with God. Now, not everyone is like that—you definitely find sincere believers even among the religious crowd—but there are so many people who cling to any religion they can find just because they're scared. Personally, out of respect for God and for myself, I’ve never been one to submit to religious rituals. To me, a lot of that stuff feels like it's based on thousands of years of magic tricks and superstitions. Plus, I care about the society I live in; I don't want to set a bad example by acting in ways that feel dishonest to myself, to God, or to my neighbors. I pray to God, sure, but I also tell Him straight up that I don't even know if He's actually there. If He has something good to offer me, I hope He does. If not? Well, maybe it's better if He doesn't. At the end of the day, I find divinity within the human experience, and I’m just really grateful for the people around me. If God is a being, I honestly imagine Him as being indescribably lonely in His solitude. I think, if He exists, He created us to be His partners in creation. Whatever the case, for some reason, He doesn't seem to reach out any other way than through the physical laws of the universe He’s constantly shaping. And then you have the superstitious types waiting for "miracles"—people who see something they can't explain and immediately label it a sign of God's presence. I find that whole thing kind of tragicomic, honestly. It just ends up fueling more fear, which ultimately makes it impossible for people to actually live in the present moment with full consciousness, love, and freedom.
Hannah White2 said:I’m pretty sure what Jung was getting at here is the idea of believing in God—or just some kind of higher power, whatever. It’s not about the organized religion stuff, which, let's be honest, can be totally toxic for your mental health if you aren't careful. So, you really have to draw a line between actual faith and religious institutions—it's night and day, like the sky and the Earth.
I'm kind of with you on both counts, actually. That specific thought came from the preface writer, not even from Jung himself. To me, it’s all about the belief—the actual quality and substance of it. Since psychology and psychiatry, generally speaking, still don't quite grasp the "philosophical" inner workings of a person well enough to just "fix" them with basic personality tests or meds after the fact, I'd say the best way to look at this is through a philosophical lens... Human beings have so many questions, and I find the big ones much more interesting; things like how we face death, our relationship with sexuality, or just the quality of having an honest connection with another person... You know, being able to trust people and finding some peace with your own fate...
cosmictinker21 said:I'm not really offering a "personal" opinion so much as pointing toward existing research that's already been done—and is still being conducted. You can find that data explicitly online, or in places like a medical library, the Library of Congress, or even a local university library (assuming they have enough literature on hand)... Beyond that, I can contribute based on my own observations and by passing along what I've seen from people I know. For someone who truly believed in divine intervention, the path to healing and reducing both mental and physical suffering was significantly easier. On the flip side, for those who took a defeatist view—thinking illness was a punishment from God and that they had to suffer as atonement for their sins—some were actually able to endure the pain more easily. However, those who literally accepted the sickness as a sign of their own sinfulness tended to just give up on themselves, doing nothing active to improve their condition. My question is this: how many people have actually sought your psychological help, how many have you truly tried to assist, and what practical experiences and conclusions have you drawn from your actual work? Or is this all just happening at a purely theoretical level? Try reading with a bit of comprehension (forgive the author if that sounds blunt)...
Honey, the second you agree with an idea, it becomes your own stance, if that makes sense. Maybe try to wrap your head around that. And honestly, needing the "whole world" to back you up just to hold onto a viewpoint... well, that might be something else you need to work on.
For someone who truly believed in God's help, the paths toward healing and easing both mental and physical suffering were significantly smoother. On the flip side, some people who took a defeatist view—thinking illness was a divine punishment and that they had to suffer to redeem their sins—actually found it easier to endure. However, those who literally accepted being sick as a sign of their own sinfulness tended to just give up and didn't do anything active to improve their condition. So, my question is: how many people have actually sought psychological help from you? How many have you genuinely tried to help? What are your practical experiences and conclusions from your work, or is this all just theoretical speculation? Please read this with understanding (forgive the author's phrasing).
Voila,
I also attribute my own psychological stability to "talking with God"—and I shouldn't forget to mention, I send Him a PM too, haha. I mean a real, honest conversation, not just reciting formal prayers. 👍
Regarding providing actual help, I think the question is better phrased this way: how "alive" are we, in terms of having mutually constructive relationships with others? If I tell you my life story, I’m talking about everything I've participated in, all my views and thoughts gained through direct experience and reading books. Given the various jobs I've held and the background I come from, comparing myself to the average person, I’d say I have pretty rich experience in both theory and practice. That said, psychology isn't my professional career (though I wouldn't mind if it were).
cosmictinker21 said:Look, when you're standing over someone who just collapsed on the highway because they had a massive heart attack, you aren't exactly going to start lecturing them on Jungian archetypes. If your stomach is cramping from hunger, or if a kid wipes out on his bike and you're watching blood soak through his jeans... you don't just sit there in some meditative trance. Sorry, not happening.
The deep philosophical pondering—stuff like "did I act correctly?" or "why does this happen?"—that comes later. Much later.
But anyway, getting back to the point of the thread... if my memory hasn't completely failed me, the core question is whether religious belief is a deciding factor in treating mental illness. It isn't strictly necessary, but it can certainly be one of those variables that either helps someone recover or makes things worse...
But honestly, you're kind of dodging the question again. You just say "no," but you aren't really explaining the reasoning behind your specific take or where you're coming from with that opinion. [I mean, we're just having a chat, not running for President or anything.] 😉
cosmictinker21 said:I suppose I should probably add something here... though I'm not entirely sure if there's much left to say after everything that's been laid out... maybe just some small observations as they occur to me... Let's just set aside that old coke addict and his weird obsession with his own cousin for a second—though I can already hear the inevitable jump at me for trying to mix a guy's messy personal life with his scientific contributions...🤣Back then, neurology, biochemistry, and pharmacology were barely scratching the surface compared to what we have now. Looking at those works through a modern lens—nearly 80 years after they were actually put together—it’s clear how much we’ve since discovered, recorded, and mastered. Those incredible books really just serve as early blueprints for the scientific theories and practices we rely on today... If you want to dive deeper, check out some of the older threads on this; kokain najts has a pretty solid handle on the subject.
Uh, you haven't actually said anything, really. No examples, no arguments, and no clear indication of what exactly you agree or disagree with, let alone where things might be overlapping.
You're just throwing claims around. I could easily turn this around and say that biochemistry, pharmacology, and science will never reach the level of insight that philosophy has already achieved. So, who's really winning there?
And bringing up the cousin thing... yeah, fair point, mentioning that specifically is pretty pointless. It’s like if I told you I lost my virginity to my aunt, that I actually enjoyed it, that I'd do it again 😁, and that somehow that makes me permanently unfit to practice psychotherapy 😕
The facts as I see them are these: I’ve met plenty of psychologists and psychiatrists who are atheists or folks with deep spiritual roots who are totally hostile toward the church (though, sure, some even sing in the choir). I've even seen one parent send their kid to a priest because they couldn't get help elsewhere. And regarding those "professionals"—after seeing how they actually live their lives when they aren't clocked in—just like Jung wrote; my colleagues have never cared about me any less than they care about their patients. So, looking at the landscape today, I don't really see that we've made a massive shift.
Hannah White2 said:The problem is, you’re basically prime real estate for people looking to take advantage of a sick partner. Just imagine this: your significant other is sneaking around behind your back while you're struggling, and you have no clue. I've read enough stories about how people act when they're dealing with certain disorders... honestly, how are you supposed to fix something that even the most high-end therapists in the country couldn't touch? How many times are you going to offer forgiveness before you run dry?
Probably never. But honestly, I think you're looking at this all wrong. First off, what I need most in any relationship is honesty and trust. That’s the alpha and omega of everything, I guess. Then there's friendship, that sense of belonging, stuff like that. Who knows how I'd manage to maintain a sex life with my lady if that foundation was gone.
Also, if cheating on someone is strictly a symptom of a mental disorder, then man, a huge chunk of the population is sick.
Thirdly—and this is just theoretical, mind you, not from experience—I think I could probably handle sharing a wife, or in my current situation, women, with other guys. (Actually, I share them whether I want to or not since I don't "own" anyone and don't have that whole marriage thing going on right now). But in reality, I don't have that level of deep trust with anyone to even attempt something like that.
Fourthly, and maybe this is just me overthinking it, but did it ever occur to you that being called a "human being" might imply that monogamy isn't actually natural? Like, maybe trying to force ourselves into it is just a violation of human nature? And maybe the "illness" people talk about is just the fallout from forcing ourselves into these moral norms.
cosmictinker21 said:Unfortunately, some things just have to be managed rather than cured. It happens out of nowhere, regardless of how careful you are. You just have to be prepared for that reality. As far as I know, modern medicine hasn't quite reached the point where it can completely wipe out a condition like SCH...🤷
I don't know, maybe that's not true at all.
I remember one psychiatrist saying that once you make progress with schizophrenia, suddenly everyone claims it wasn't even schizophrenia to begin with.
If you want to see a really great critique of "prestigious" psychiatry and how it's practiced, there's an excellent film posted here by Shamantrix, if I recall correctly. I don't feel like digging for it right now, but it's definitely worth watching a couple of times so you don't miss the interesting details.
cosmictinker21 said:I won't get too bogged down in deep philosophy here; I'd rather just stick to the point.
From a purely medical standpoint, believers—regardless of their specific faith—tend to handle pain much better. This is especially true for those who aren't just following rituals out of habit, but whose faith is actually a practical part of their daily lives. That sense of hope provided by faith, combined with the idea that someone—God, a higher power, whatever you want to call it—actually cares about you and has your back, creates a sort of biological rebound effect in the brain. It triggers a fresh supply of serotonin and endorphins, which naturally boosts mood, acts as an anti-stress mechanism, lowers corticosteroid levels in the blood and brain, and smooths out those sharp adrenaline spikes. That’s the fundamental foundation for managing physical pain, not to mention the inevitable anxiety and fear that hit when someone is sick. There have been numerous studies conducted on large groups of subjects in oncology wards, intensive care units, and psychiatric clinics. Researchers measured the actual rises and falls of these specific hormones and neurotransmitters before and after prayer, or after talking with a chaplain, tracking everything from the initial diagnosis through the entire course of the illness... whether that leads to recovery or death.
So, strictly from a scientific perspective, the theory holds up.
I mean, that’s only if you’re looking at just one side of the coin. From what I understand, there are strict ethical guidelines that have to be followed during any scientific research, especially when kids are involved.
So, I was thinking... what if we flipped the whole research model on its head? Like, imagine running a study where you intentionally push patients or even children into an even more vulnerable state, just so you could introduce them to entirely different religious ideas or perspectives? It sounds wild, I know, but how much of a difference would that actually make? Personally, I suspect those people wouldn't have been saved by some new doctrine, but rather by simple empathy. If they were met with kindness from people who actually validated their existing beliefs, it might have changed everything. I guess if you just lean into what they already believe, you might stop their thoughts from spiraling toward something destructive—or maybe even prevent that total mental exhaustion where they just lose the energy to think at all. Maybe that's the key.
I mean, when you bring up that distinction between people who just follow the rules and those who actually have faith, maybe we’re looking at the ones who believed in all the wrong things. Like, they might have had faith, but only in the negative stuff—the worst-case scenarios. I guess that kind of mindset probably just fueled their fears during an illness, which honestly sounds like it would only make everything feel even worse.
So, I’m thinking maybe a priest or someone like that was the one who stepped in here. But honestly? I have this hunch that the exact same thing probably happened with the atheists—and I mean it was handled by other atheists too. They likely went in with that kind of genuine empathy, offering some sort of sense of hope for recovery or just finding a bit more purpose in life, you know? And if that's the case, it probably led to much better results for them, too. I guess.
I guess it wasn't even really about whether they were religious beforehand or anything like that. It felt more like a way to show genuine care—you know, just being there for someone, showing some real solidarity and empathy toward the person who's sick. I mean, let's be honest, people of faith tend to gravitate toward their own, right? Like, a priest is naturally going to lean toward whoever actually validates the whole sense of purpose behind his work and everything he sacrifices for it. Maybe that’s just how it works.
Like the examples he brought up... S. Freud In *Totem and Taboo*, you start seeing the other side of the coin—how certain beliefs can trigger this intense fear or even total panic, sometimes even driving people to the brink. It’s wild how much weight those convictions carry. And then you look at A. Alvarez’s study on the concept of a cruel God, and it just adds another layer to that whole mess. A. Alvarez I keep stumbling across these instances of suicide driven by religious beliefs while I'm digging through various biographies. It's heavy stuff, honestly. I guess when you look at how deeply people tie their entire identity to their faith, the psychological fallout can be pretty intense if things go sideways. Maybe it’s just part of the human condition, but seeing it written out in someone's life story really makes you stop and think. C. G. Jung Looking back, it seems like his father’s passing was preceded by these really intense, constant arguments between them over religious stuff. It makes you wonder, though—how do you actually pinpoint which specific parts of a religious system are causing the friction versus what’s actually providing support? Like, how do you tease apart the components that create negative vibes from the ones that offer genuine comfort? There are so many different factors at play in that whole dynamic, so I guess I'm just looking for some more concrete examples to wrap my head around it.
Whoever decided that some things are just "impossible" clearly hasn't met me. I guess I’m just a hopeless optimist at heart, but I truly believe there's a way to beat any illness. If you really connect with someone on a deep level—you know, build that kind of solid foundation—you'd probably do absolutely everything in your power, whether it's within your control or not, to help them fight through it.
Carol Thompson said:I couldn't agree more. 👍 In fact, from what I understand, this is the exact perspective currently held by the scientific community and various mental health professionals. A healthy relationship with faith can help someone navigate life's hardships, including mental illness. Psychotherapists are increasingly integrating a patient's faith into the therapeutic process (assuming, of course, that the patient is a believer). On the flip side, unhealthy or pathological religiousness can actually fuel the development of an illness—if not cause it directly—and can certainly hinder recovery. Atheists, naturally, can manage therapy just as effectively, provided they have a healthy worldview (as anyone else would).
So, religious belief isn't a prerequisite for therapy. It can be a tool, it can be a hindrance, or it can simply be absent... 😉
Not quite. There are metrics for religiosity—specifically regarding different dimensions, such as healthy versus pathological religiosity, as well as various types (extrinsic, intrinsic, or seeking religiosity)... Certain types or dimensions of religiosity are indeed linked to specific personality traits, behaviors, biases, depression, and anxiety... there has been extensive research conducted on these very topics.
I don't believe a study that broad has ever been conducted. As someone else pointed out, due to various operational and methodological hurdles, a research topic that wide and generalized is essentially impossible to execute. 🤷
So, I was thinking about this earlier today—what exactly counts as pathological religiosity? It’s one of those things that’s kind of hard to pin down because it isn't always obvious, you know? Like, how do you even measure it without sounding like you're judging someone's personal faith? I guess if we're being real, it’s less about how much someone believes and more about how that belief starts to mess with their actual life. It’s when the whole thing stops being about spiritual comfort or finding meaning and starts turning into something... well, maybe a bit obsessive or even destructive. Maybe it shows up when someone starts pulling away from everything else—family, work, friends—just to focus on rituals or doctrines to an extreme degree. Or if they start making really irrational decisions based on these intense convictions that don't really line up with reality. It’s sort of like when a hobby becomes an addiction, but instead of it being about gaming or collecting stuff, it’s centered around religious practice. It’s a fine line, though. I mean, I think everyone has their own way of coping, right? But when that coping mechanism starts dictating every single move you make or causing genuine harm to yourself or the people around you, that’s probably where the "pathological" label starts to fit. It’s definitely a tricky subject to navigate without getting too deep into the weeds, but I guess that's just how it is. 😁I mean, are we talking about specific "religious" advice here? Like, could you maybe give me an example of what that looks like? I guess I'm also kind of wondering what exactly qualifies as "health" or having a "healthy worldview," but honestly, we can totally put that off for later if you want. No rush. 😍
Quincy:
I mean, looking at it this way, I guess religious belief isn't really a make-or-break factor when it comes to therapy. It’s kind of complicated, honestly. It could be used as a tool to help someone heal, it could potentially cause some friction or even do more harm than good, or—and maybe this is the most common path—it might not play a role in the process at all. It just depends on the situation, I suppose. 😉
So, I was thinking about what Jung said, and it kind of serves as a decent jumping-off point for this whole discussion. I mean, when you look at the world today, such a huge chunk of the population identifies with some kind of religion, and even those who don't, they're still pretty much shaped by the cultural leftovers that religious structures left behind. It’s like, if you trace civilization back through all those stages—from old-school totemism and mysticism to everything we deal with now—you realize how deeply intertwined the two are. I guess that's why I feel like we should actually take this topic seriously instead of just brushing it off. It makes me wonder, though... has there ever been an actual atheist society that really lasted? Like, one that was exclusively secular from the start? Maybe somewhere isolated, like a tiny island out in the Pacific Ocean? Just curious if anyone knows anything about that.
Quincy:
I mean, I think that's not quite right. There’s actually a way to measure religiosity—or rather, there are different ways to look at it. You have to consider the distinction between healthy spirituality and more pathological stuff, and then you've got all these different types like extrinsic, intrinsic, or even that searching kind of religiosity... I guess it's just more nuanced than that. So, I was thinking about this earlier, and it’s kind of wild how much certain types of religiousness—if you even want to call it that—seem to tie back to who we are as people. Like, there’s definitely a connection between how someone practices their faith and their actual personality traits, or maybe even how they handle things like anxiety or depression. It’s not just some random feeling either; I think there’s actually been a ton of research done on this stuff over the years. You see all these studies looking at how belief systems might overlap with specific behaviors or even deep-seated biases people carry around. It’s pretty heavy stuff when you really dig into it, I guess.
I mean, I guess it depends on what you’re actually looking for, right? Like, are we talking about a good spot for brunch in Chicago, or maybe a decent tech setup? I feel like everyone asks for recommendations without giving much to go on, haha. If you could give me even a tiny bit of context, I might be able to dig something up for you. Maybe?
Gary James88 said:That’s a massive question to tackle. Even if someone actually tried to run a study like that, you'd have to ask what the point is. You'd face a mountain of pushback regarding how you'd even measure it or control for all the outside variables. It reminds me of those old controversial studies trying to compare national IQ levels—they got absolutely shredded for their methodology and the ethics behind them in the first place.
Religion isn't just about abstract stuff like God or how much suffering we're supposed to endure. More often than not, it’s deeply tied to politics and, more importantly for this discussion, how humans face death. Plus, there's usually a whole laundry list of rules regarding sex—everything from masturbation to whether or not you should have kids—not to mention dietary restrictions and everything else under the sun...
So, certain religions push specific solutions or lifestyles. But most people who call themselves religious don't really stick to the strict rules or the core ideas, so I guess the best group to actually study would be the ones who are genuinely trying to live by them...
That said, these ideas are basically baked into the moral frameworks of entire dominant cultures and various subcultures in different areas. It reminds me of that joke—which is probably based on something real—about a conflict between Protestants and Catholics in Ireland; they stop a guy and ask if he's Catholic or Protestant, and he says he's an atheist. Then they follow up by asking if he's a Catholic or Protestant atheist.😁