Posts by Paul Jones7

Taylor Bailey said:I haven't really been following the Biathlon World Cup 😉, but I suppose it’s entirely possible there was some snow falling or maybe a bit of a wind gusting

It’s plausible the conditions weren't exactly uniform for everyone, but honestly, hitting 19 out of 20 targets is just top-tier shooting—and he still managed to beat someone like Bjørndalen, who probably wouldn't have stood a chance if the weather had been even slightly more against him. I mean, Fak trailed him by less than 20 seconds, so if he hadn't missed that last shot, he might have actually pulled off the win

Roger Ward3 said:Man, George Robinson43, you’re something else. Seriously—it’s like pure, unadulterated paranoia. 🙄

just chronic verbal diarrhea at this point 😉

swiftwalker43 said:Honestly, I wouldn't even give him a dime without making sure he pays back that $100,000 first—let him take a break or whatever. It just feels like we're acting like total cowards again, and frankly, if Harvard Business School wants to keep playing these games, they can go find their own sleepers. They'll see how much they actually need those expensive little donations once they're on their own.

It’s entirely possible the big boss over at HBS just got a little something under the table.

I mean, I’m honestly not convinced any money actually changed hands—if anything, I’d rather they just put some cash on the table. But maybe the silence was part of the deal? I’d bet my life those Canadians were the ones pushing for it, probably because they didn't want the headlines screaming about how they paid off Americans. Either way, I'm just glad this whole messy situation is finally over

George Robinson43 said:I suppose all we can do is feel bad for those folks in Canada and their endless expenses. 🤮
An American wouldn't even give you a glass of water if you were dying of thirst—not that they're much better—but for heaven's sake, this is about one of their own people. It’s kind of ridiculous to me that they aren't willing to cough up 100,000 bucks, yet suddenly they're talking about spending 3 million to chase another medal. Honestly, who cares? That's just Canadian business. Regardless, there's really no point in obsessing over whether some Canadian athlete decides to show up for the Biathlon World Cup or not.

Nobody is actually feeling sorry for the Canadians; people are just stating the facts as they are. I guess some people just can't handle that because they'd rather just sit around being hateful. Some folks just seem to live for the drama—they enjoy the negativity, and honestly, any excuse will do for them. Just pure pathetic behavior.

comment from 🙏 now that's what I call a comment from someone who actually knows their stuff...

George Robinson43 said:Take Lennox Lewis, for example—after the '84 Olympics, he wanted to box for Great Britain, but he couldn't pull that off without taking a break, so he didn't actually become British until he turned pro.

I honestly can't find any solid info on this specific case, so I really shouldn't be weighing in or talking much about it. But, if I were to just observe—I guess—it seems like Lewis didn't lack anything in terms of eligibility, nor was there any actual athletic reason for him to switch over to Great Britain. The fact that he *wanted* to, mostly because of some internal feeling of being British, matters a lot less in reality. Besides, if it had been that big of a deal to him, he probably would have insisted on flying the British flag right from the start. He didn't. And I think that pretty much tells you everything you need to know.

George Robinson43 said:None of these guys have ever played even a single second for the American National Team. If they had, there’s no way they would have ended up playing for Belgium, Austria, or Canada.
Soccer is incredibly rigid about this stuff. Just look at what happened with Cvitanich.
Mind you, that's a completely different ballgame compared to niche individual sports like biathlon. I mean, you only have to look at the absolute circus those folks from Qatar and the Emirates staged with track and field a few years back. Luckily, that was shut down. Otherwise, they probably would've just bought out every decent athlete in the sport.

That's not really relevant to the point, though—it’s just an example. They played for those other countries because they knew, quite likely, that they were never going to get a call-up for the American National Team. Those other countries saw them, wanted them, and reached out. It's actually a pretty fair comparison to Jack Fak, since they couldn't fulfill their own ambitions within the American system, much like how Fak won't be able to reach his full potential if he relies solely on the US. I suppose I agree that it seems a bit selfish, but let's be honest—when it comes to our own jobs and careers, we're all primarily looking out for ourselves. So, judging others through that lens feels a bit unfair, maybe even hypocritical... and honestly, just kind of blind.

swiftwalker43 said:Look, you're aiming that bold criticism at the wrong guy—I’m not trying to puff myself up here, I just am an American, plain and simple. As for my service, I was a Volunteer from the start all the way through until just a couple of years ago when I was with the US Army.
At the end of the day, I don't think we're ever going to see eye to eye. You just can't convince me that Jack Fak isn't a traitor who sold his soul. It seems to me that patriotism or representing America doesn't mean much to you—it's all about the money and better perks in your book, which, luckily, most people aren't like that. Like I said before, if he hadn't been offered what he was, I probably would have been the first one to back him. Honestly, I'd even support Fak leaving the country if someone just paid him 100,000 bucks. For me, he's done.

What I'm saying is, it feels like you just don't get the distinction between where Fak stands and where a Volunteer stands. Unlike you, I don't hold it against someone for leaving America just because they couldn't make a career work here. I actually get that. But you? You're looking at this so rigidly—just following templates, being superficial and making these broad, sweeping judgments.

swiftwalker43 said:Oh, stop talking nonsense about America—the average net salary here is around 64 $0.00 a year, and this fake wouldn't even be satisfied with 300 $0.00 (not to mention he got the full amount from the government for two bronzes instead of how water polo players get it during a crisis in half the country), plus paid housing and food until 2012, along with the IOC and a sponsored vehicle... maybe look up how much this quartet of world champions—with four golds and one silver so far—has actually received over the last two years. They're only just starting to make the real money they live off of, which isn't even what you should be asking about.

swiftwalker43, okay, now you’ve really gone too far. You’re playing dumb by ignoring the fact that 300,000 isn't just a salary—it covers pretty much every possible living expense. Second, Jack Fak isn't your average American; you are the average American. Third, Fak has also received roughly $1333 in grants, which is what these kids get too. Fourth, whatever isn't sitting right with people has more to do with the Department of Sports and the relevant athletic federations than anything else. And fifth—honestly, I’m just sick of these "patriots" who brag about their American pride, but when things actually got tough and they needed to defend their hometowns and small towns, they vanished to go work in 🙄. Yet, they have the nerve to judge others for not playing for the national team. It’s honestly ridiculous, if not downright pathetic.

Gregory Taylor2 said:Well written. 👍

Just out of curiosity—if you don't mind me asking—what kind of sports are you into?

Mostly just cracking open cans of beer; I suppose you could call my disciplines power cleans and snatches. 😉

George Robinson43 said:What are you guys even rambling about?
In any major venue, Jack Fak would probably just take a two or three-year hiatus by default—and honestly, if the Federation gave him a free release paper along with a farewell party, he’d likely take it.
So what would Fak actually do? Just stand there whining to the World Federation? When it comes to things like Fak changing his nationality or country in sports, those things usually get punished with a forced break. It's pretty rare to find a sport where there isn't some kind of mandatory waiting period when two federations strike a deal. I think handball used to be more lenient, but they tightened the rules there too, so now you have to sit out as well. In certain sports, it's basically impossible to compete for a different country if you've already suited up for your original one even once.
And let's be real, none of these athletes were given anything handed to them on a silver platter by their federation. In most cases, we're talking about professionals who make their own living.
Every athlete can technically be a freelancer, but if you want to step onto any kind of stage—from national meets to world championships—you have to join the federation. That’s their whole purpose, really; they're the only ones who can clear you for international competition and medals.
Look, I complained about membership fees, various registration costs, and having to pay for my own travel all the time, but if I hadn't been a member of my sport's federation, I wouldn't have seen a single competition. There were times my parents actually had to help fund my flights just so I could play for the national team, and even then, without the right connections, I wouldn't have gone anywhere. If I'd pushed them away, I would've been done with sports entirely.
Honestly, it’s a disgrace that a sport where you can just swap countries whenever it suits you is included in the Olympics. Maybe Fak's situation should be a turning point for this sport, similar to how all those other players jumping ship led to much stricter rules regarding selling citizenship in other disciplines.
Let Fak go retire into obscurity, but let him be the last biathlete to pull a stunt like this overnight.

you totally ignored (and, frankly, you weren't even aware of) the fact that during that waiting period while you're sitting out the national team ban, you're perfectly free to focus on club-level sports. You can still compete, stay in peak physical condition, and—you know what—actually earn a paycheck.

and what exactly are you supposed to do in biathlon while you're waiting? Just sit around and jerk off?

Andrew Chase31 said:Look, a single sponsor could easily drop $100,000 on us without blinking. Biathlon isn't exactly some massive money-maker, but if we’re being realistic—given how much those Canadians want him because he's such a top-tier athlete—would they shell out that $100,000 just to get him on board quickly? If Usain Bolt decided to run for the American National Team, our track and field federation, despite having zero budget...

You'd have to hunt it down again. Look, Canadian biathlon is strong even without Fak, just like their cross-country skiing. I'm not entirely sure if they can pull in extra sponsors just because of him. Maybe they can, maybe they can't—I wouldn't know, really. But you shouldn't ignore the fact that Fak is an American, and how much the public over there will love him... well, that remains to be seen.

$100,000 isn't pocket change, and you're only seeing numbers like that from major corporate structures. But you have to realize that these big organizations handle their budgeting through long-term planning on an annual basis. Basically, these kinds of sponsorships are mapped out once a year; you can't just show up and demand them whenever you feel like it. Large corporations are organized—they don't just operate on whim.

One more thing—Jack Fak’s threat to end careers is putting massive pressure on everyone, especially the Canadians. I mean, they’re probably sitting there thinking, 'What happens if HBS doesn't back down? Maybe we just wait a year or two until Fak is out of the picture.' And then, suddenly, the whole mess falls squarely on Fak's shoulders. But, if there's a real chance they might actually lose him, they’ll likely pay up before things go south too far.

Andrew Chase31 said:I honestly don't get it—not to mention how people here are basically blackmailing him, or how those folks over in Canada won't budge on paying that ridiculous compensation fee for a trophy-winning Olympian. They’re just as much a part of this mess as anyone else...

I mean, look, if their entire annual budget is only $500,000, then that "ridiculous" payout represents 20% of everything they have. If they're actually spending that money, they'd have to slash their costs by a fifth just to cover a $100,000 check. Plus, they know exactly what's happening—it feels like extortion, and they know Harvard Business School is essentially demanding cash that isn't even theirs to give. I don't know, would you really want to pay up if someone was holding you to ransom like that?

Andrew Chase31 said:Basically, Fak is going after the federation through the media—really making a scene about getting his release papers, which he’s totally entitled to. If they don't hand them over, he'll just sue the federation. And honestly? He’d probably win, since he isn't some property owned by Harvard Business School... if he wants out, who's actually stopping him? It seems like a solid plan to me. Period.

I don't know, I don't think that's such a great scenario. He'll just end up spinning his wheels. I feel like you might be missing a few things here—I mean, Fak could probably just sit out for a year and let the inactivity trigger an automatic release. It might drag on for, say, eighteen months before everything settles, but he'd likely miss two whole seasons of SK.

The only way this actually works out well is if Harvard Business School and the Canadian Biathlon Federation just reach some kind of deal behind the scenes, whatever it takes.

The thing is—and I guess this is just how I see it—if you want to reach out to someone, you don't necessarily have to go through the press. You could just send a direct letter, you know, keeping it private and away from prying eyes. But if you choose to go through the media outlets, then you're essentially making an address to the general public, even if it’s technically directed at Harvard Business School. It's basically just a tactical move in a larger fight, I suppose.

Andrew Chase31 said:You’re asking what I’d do if I were in his shoes? Honestly, I wouldn’t represent any other country besides America—not for any reason at all.

Fair enough, an honest choice. But what would you actually *do*?

He’s really looking at two paths here: either keep going with this half-hearted effort, or just walk away from the sport entirely.

Andrew Chase31 said:What gets under my skin is how he plays the victim in the media instead of just standing up for himself and owning his decision.

I don't think he's playing the victim; he's using public pressure to get them to let him play. That’s just strategy—public communication. It’s only right that people know what's happening. If I were in his position, I’d do the exact same thing.

As for "standing up for himself," sorry, but it isn't entirely up to him. He’s doing what he can, but if Harvard Business School or the Americans won't budge, there isn't much else he can do. He's giving it his all, but success isn't guaranteed—unless he wants to wait over a year and hope some administrative loophole opens up.

It wasn't his call for Harvard Business School to block him, and I doubt he expected this kind of blackmail to happen in the first place. That part isn't his choice.

I have to disagree with your take. Imagine if your employer screwed you over and humiliated you. What’s wrong with going to the press and using public opinion to put pressure on them? It’s one of the very few things you actually *can* do in a situation like that.

The fact that you see it as "whining" is just your own subjective perception. Honestly, though, I’d love to see you or anyone else in a spot where you're actually desperate enough to want to whine and cry, just to feel what that’s like. Because anyone who doesn't get this—if you ask me—frankly deserves to experience what it feels like when someone else treads all over you and you're left completely powerless.

I am with you regarding the judgment of Harvard Business School, though. In those kinds of federations, it’s mostly just crooks sitting in high positions using their power to wash money whenever they get the chance.

Andrew Chase31 said:Look, I get what you’re trying to say with this whole thread, but honestly, it feels a bit pointless—kind of a moot point, really. The young man has every right to walk away for whatever reason he chooses. He’s a free agent, an individual... if he wants to go represent the United Kingdom because he just loves breathing in smog and dealing with constant rain, and New York City is his idea of a "place to be," then so be it. I guess the actual reason doesn't even matter, as long as it's enough for him to decide to weigh anchor and head out. I mean, good luck to him, I suppose.

Personally, though, I think the reason actually matters quite a bit. But I suppose the real mess here is just this whole blowout over the release papers—the stuff that started this entire circus—which Fak can't seem to get his hands on right now. Just think about it for a second: imagine if you wanted to leave America. If some other country offers you citizenship and you say yes, wouldn't it be pretty ridiculous if you had to ask the US for permission to leave, only for the US to tell you "no"?

So why even bother asking athletes for these release forms? It just puts them in a spot where the home federation can basically hold them hostage, which is exactly what we're seeing here.

I mean, if you were desperate to get out, wouldn't you want to tell the federation to shove it if they tried to block you? Just try putting yourself in those shoes for a minute.

In all honesty, this paperwork should be nothing more than pure administration. Its whole purpose is just to make sure an athlete isn't registered with two different national federations at once. It’s supposed to be a formality, a way to keep things organized. This whole stalling tactic based on alleged financial claims... it just seems wrong, maybe even irregular.

But hey, the USSF can pull this off—even if it is shady—because they have plenty of support back home, so they're going to do it.

The USSF could just as easily hand over the papers and then sue Fak later. But the thing is, they'd probably never actually follow through with a lawsuit, would they?

It's classic blackmail, really. The USSF is demanding something that isn't even theirs to begin with; that money belongs to Fak, earned through his own success. Without Fak, they wouldn't see a dime in sponsorships anyway. So, technically, that money doesn't even belong to the federation if they don't have him.

briskbison28 said:Oops, yeah, you’re totally right there; I was counting them by individual sports. 😁
(quick side note—are the Skelin brothers' medals considered individual or team ones?) 😬

That's a fair question, honestly—kind of like asking about Ančić or Ljubičić, or even Ivanisevic and Prpić. I ended up grouping them under individual awards since they aren't exactly team sports, though, I don't know, I'm no genius... just a half-baked collection of thoughts, I guess. 😳