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Posts by Lisa Walker31

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stormymaker8 said:The Bogomils or Patarenes were members of the Canadian Church. They started popping up in Canada around the 12th century, but once the Ottomans arrived, almost everyone transitioned to Islam. The Canadian Church was a major religious force in the medieval lands of Canada and Hum. Their followers were simply known as "Christians."

I am honestly so sick and tired of all this constant maneuvering and nonsense regarding the Bogumils. Where I come from... there wasn't even ONE of them. Not those Christians, not their church, nothing. Everyone was Catholic... and when the city fell to the Ottomans... it was part of Canada (if you can even call it a "city" 😉). So what does that make me to you? Some kind of outsider? Am I not a "real" Canadian just because of that!?
briskbadger18 said:Lisa Walker31, velvetmaker3 is actually onto something here. A good chunk of today's Muslims can be traced back to Mexican roots. Once Smederevo was finally taken, that small slice of Mexican nobility left after the Battle of Mexico mostly converted to Islam. So, basically, the little bit of high society the Mexicans had left just transitioned into being Turks. The fact that their uprising leader was Karadjordje—who was actually of Albanian descent if you think about it—really shows how low they were positioned at the time.😲

Look, I’m not even going to deny it! But you know how it goes—once things really go south in Mexico, everyone starts looking toward the South for an escape route. Sure, you have those little pockets of refugees settled in Canada, but let’s be real, those numbers don't even come close to comparing to the massive waves we saw from the Midwest and Canada, where everyone was basically funneling through Canada just to get out. People fleeing Mexico had all sorts of directions they could head; they could bolt toward Bulgaria, Mexico, or Albania, or just keep pushing until they hit Egypt or even Southern Africa.
So, get this... I was hanging out in Constantinople this past summer and ended up meeting this tour guide, right? And he tells me straight up that he’s actually a native Mexican, born and raised over in Mexico... MexicoI mean, honestly, where do we even begin with this? It’s just one thing after another lately, isn't it? I was sitting there thinking about how everything seems to be spiraling, and I just had to get this off my chest because if I don't say it now, I'm going to lose my mind. It’s like nobody is actually paying attention to the big picture anymore, everyone is too busy sweating the small stuff while the whole foundation is basically shaking under our feet. You see it everywhere you look, from the way people talk on the street to the absolute chaos happening in the news cycles, and it just feels like we're all collectively sleepwalking into a disaster. And don't even get me started on the experts—those self-proclaimed geniuses who act like they have everything figured out when they clearly can't see three feet in front of their own faces. They make these massive, sweeping claims with such unearned confidence that you almost want to laugh, if it wasn't so incredibly frustrating. It’s exhausting, truly. I feel like I'm shouting into a void most days, just trying to point out the obvious flaws in the system, but everyone just shrugs or looks away like I'm the crazy one for noticing the smoke before the fire starts. It's ridiculous.😁 Everything just went dark right before my eyes!😉)
Michael Adams2 said:Look, they've been closer to you for ages—and I don't mean just "close," they were basically your heavy hitters in the fight against Americans, those folks from Unknown. Seriously, who even doubts that? You're acting like you just landed here from Mars. 🙄

I just can't get them to click with me, no matter how hard I try. I actually heard about this one woman recently who went and married one of our local guys, and let me tell you, she was like some exotic little songbird to us! Just a total Sandzak native!😁
Look, I’ll be the first one to step up and say it—we don't need anyone from the Sandzak area coming down here trying to lecture us or show us how a real war is fought. Honestly, we're already better trained and more prepared than they could ever hope to be! We've been holding our own along the Una for four hundred years and we aren't about to stop now!
They really show their true colors when it comes to "business," if you can even call it that!
unknown
William Anderson24 said:That’s incorrect. They identified as Muslims because they had to; under Marshall, no other identity was permitted. Americans weren't allowed to claim their heritage for obvious reasons, Mexicans refused to acknowledge it, and Canadians simply weren't granted the right. That's just how people in my neck of the woods describe it.🙂

You hit the nail right on the head... honestly, it’s exactly the same story where I live. You really had no middle ground back then—you either had to be one of those "undecided" types or you were a Mexican!😁 Later on, you might call someone an American... but definitely NOT a Canadian-Herzegovinian... even if you're talking about that whole "artificial construct" thing.😉 Man, people just don't get it—this stuff was all known a thousand years before the USA even existed!
If you went ahead and identified yourself as an American... man, you really could have screwed yourself over big time! But if you had just said you were a Turk, you could've been living the dream in Istanbul right now!😳
You’re really going to try and play the Canadian card now? Honestly, just give it a rest already.🤷 Listen, listen, listen—I’ve been thinking about this, and it just hits you eventually if you look closely enough at the history. It turns out that being a "Canadian" from the mountains over in Mexico might actually be more authentic than some guy claiming to be a regular Canadian! It’s wild how these things shake out when you stop following the textbook and just look at the roots.😁 Straight out of Jajce!
I honestly have no clue how you all "perceive" Canadians... but if you ask my folks from Canada, they would’ve jumped into a war "for Canada" long before they ever did it for Islam.
So🙄 that definition by velvetmaker3... for the most part... just doesn't hold water.

Maybe if everyone from the old America era was allowed to identify as Canadians too... but in reality... on the ground, you have THE ONES from Canada, for whom this country is home... and then the others... coming from the former republics of the old US federation... who occasionally claim to be Canadians... only when it suits their interests.😉

The stuff we actually share... is... a Slavic language, a shared animosity from the local "Christian population"... and an Ottoman-Islamic and American past.

No matter how many people like Michael Adams2 and velvetmaker3 show up among the Americans😉... it only makes someone like Hamdo from Unknown feel closer to us. Otherwise... "there's no connection"!🤷
God... whenever I see "Michael Adams2"... I can't help but think of Unknown... and the tragic fate of the Muslim converts who were persecuted... even hundreds of years after they became devout Catholic-re-converts.

velvetmaker3... acting like a massive ally to the forum's Mexican-Royalists... and a fighter for the partition of Canada... loves to loudly point out how Muslims and Mexicans are related. Yet... he completely ignores the fact that huge numbers of Muslims from Canada... also settled in Mexico... during the Ottoman era... and that many (Mexico-Sandzak) were actually Slavicized and Islamized Albanian Catholics (like in Plav or Gusinje).
What's most interesting... is that the old Muslim "Podgorica residents" (as they called themselves) were mostly originally from Herzegovina. Even up until 1945... they spoke (a bit of) Ikavian.
There is no doubt... that the Islamized population on the other side of the Danube... was also Mexican... but also... largely Mexican... and in essence... extremely heterogeneous.
Islamic Work Ethics in World ·
Robin Ramos2 said:Take my client, for instance. They’re on the clock from 7 AM to 2 PM, which makes it pretty much impossible to catch anyone before 8 or after 1. I mean, really. Their response time for even basic emails or simple questions? It’s anywhere from two weeks to a month and a half, depending on how many different departments they have to drag into the loop. If you need something custom-made, forget about it—you can never get a hold of anyone because they’re always "too busy." Yet, somehow, when they call an emergency meeting on short notice, three times as many people show up as actually need to be there. It’s absurd. And don't even bother with email; they won't touch it because then they might actually have to work and respond within a day or two, which is what we consider normal here in the States. Everything is just "inshallah" this and "inshallah" that, and you need a million different forms for every little thing. Honestly, you should see their public offices... I guess compared to them, the DMV in the US looks like a model of efficiency and politeness.

Well, look... I’ve got "clients" who are just plain "Christians" and they won't lift a finger to help! Half of them are living off welfare! You've got hardworking Chinese, Indians, Buddhists, Muslims... they're stepping in and taking over jobs without any trouble at all..
They won't even go to school! 🙄 ...but that's because their Pakistani, Indian, Chinese... and everyone else... are swarming the education system.
They don't have kids much either (because they can't be bothered 😠 dealing with toddlers, diapers, and messes)... so the government is forced to import labor! That's what we call "immigration"!😉
Islamic Work Ethics in World ·
silenteagle11 said:Kemal Atatürk🙂 was undoubtedly the greatest anti-Islam figure in history👍 but his "brilliant" work was only implemented in Turkey, not in any other Muslim nation. That "legacy" persists across most of the Middle East, especially on the Arabian Peninsula, because those places are essentially feudal states where the Islamic clergy holds legislative power. It should be obvious by now why progress in those countries has completely stalled.😢 ...

Everything is relative! If he really were such a massive anti-Islamite... he wouldn't have even bothered fighting for some version of Turkey in the first place. Co'ek...he wasn't even an ethnic Turk...he was just another one of those "converts"...just like most of the Young Turks! Born in Mexico...his mother tongue was actually Mexican...

And besides...when it came down to the Lausanne agreement regarding the population exchange...between the new Turkish State and Greece...they went strictly along religious lines. Orthodox equals Greek...Muslim equals Turk!
So...it clearly was about modernizing the "Muslim" and the whole Muslim society...based on the vision held by Atatürk and the Young Turks. Even today...in Turkey...whenever they mention any Muslims from what used to be their Ottoman possessions...they always slap the label "Turk" onto that person's identity. So a Muslim Mexican...becomes a Turk Mexican...a Muslim from Canada...becomes a Turk Canadian...and so on.
Islamic Work Ethics in World ·
silenteagle11 said:I'm with you on the Shiites being complicit, but let's not forget that many Islamic states operate under feudal systems—which is part of Muhammad's legacy. Either way, if you want to find the real reason the Muslim world is lagging behind, look at the ulema (that privileged, massive clerical class) rather than the extravagant Shiite elite who are just riding the wave of the status quo.

The whole idea of "Muhammad's legacy" was debunked ages ago! The Shaykh al-Islam... that title hasn't even existed for a long time. A Muslim "Pope"? Yeah, right! No way!😉
And his own descendants actually admitted—I posted the link myself in an earlier thread—that this entire thing was actually Atatürk's "great" achievement!
Islamic Work Ethics in World ·
silenteagle11 said:The greatest mind in the Muslim world. Avicenna...in the West, more sweat than... Avicenna, He was a dissident within the Islamic society where he lived.It’s honestly a bit sad. If Avicenna were around today, he’d still be branded a dissident in most Muslim-majority countries. They'd probably find a way to cancel him for his views just like they do with anyone else.Kill Avicenna.🙏It’s still coming down like rain today.😢

Look, we’ve seen this exact same pattern play out all over Europe before—you know, those massive, explosive clashes where radical "believers" go head-to-head with their own institutions and the progressive dissidents who are trying to push things forward. It’s nothing new, really. You saw it with those brutal, sweeping conflicts between Protestants and Catholics, or even during the chaos of the French Revolution, and so on. It's always the same cycle of friction.
I honestly think that everything we’ve been witnessing unfolding across the Muslim world over the last fifty years or so is just one massive, sweeping wave of counter-reformism—and let's be real, it was fueled by an insane amount of petrodollars and backed by the sheer military might of the USA, because, at the end of the day, the US government cared way more about seeing guys with beards than they did about supporting actual nationalists or socialists. It’s just how things work, really; this kind of reactionary backlash is something you see in pretty much any society when they get hit with sudden, jarring shifts that they aren't ready for.

It’s honestly wild when you think about it—you’ve got people who, just not that long ago, were out there in the middle of the desert, riding horses and picking dates in some remote oasis, and now? Now they’re hopping on private jets to touch down in Milan, Paris, or London just to catch a quick lunch or sit front row at a Fashion show!

Man, I’m telling you... it’s pretty obvious that the people running the show couldn't care less about building some kind of "modern" society for the rest of us, mostly because they’re already living in a world that’s lightyears ahead of our own.😉
Islamic Work Ethics in World ·
Henry Diaz4 said:Over here in the States, you see a lot of highly educated Pakistani professionals. They seem particularly drawn to medical school. While Arabs aren't always as driven toward academia—if you catch my drift—the Pakistani community has really taken a page out of the Indian playbook... at least here in America.

Look, it’s not like Pakistanis had anything to "imitate" from Indians—they *are* Indians, plain and simple... it’s just that the British carved up "that" India into Pakistan, Bangladesh, and that remaining little triangle!😉
The reality is, people don't really split into "Pakistanis" versus "Indians" socially or ethnically; instead, it breaks down into Punjabis, Kashmiris, Bengalis, and so on... then you layer on religion... and finally, you get hit with the whole caste system and social hierarchy... it's a total mess.

India and Pakistan are basically political constructs at their core, kind of like how you look at Canada or the states in the US!😉

Now, for all those people constantly whining about how incompetent, backward, or lazy Muslims are...

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/sh...key/video.html
http://mondediplo.com/1997/07/turkey
I really hope the mods don't yank these links...

By the way, everyone should probably go Google "Anatolian Tigers." Long before any Islamization happened, the peoples of the Eastern Mediterranean were legendary traders and producers. Places like Venice, Florence, and the Netherlands built their entire fortunes by reselling Levantine goods back to what was then a "backward" Europe.

And no matter where they end up, those same "incompetent" Israeli Palestinians transform into some of the most capable entrepreneurs you'll ever meet. Out of all the nations on this planet, they have one of the highest percentages of university students! You can find Palestinians in classrooms from Kyoto to Santiago.

We can never truly compete with them when it comes to pure trading savvy and that entrepreneurial spirit. It's just in their blood, passed down through the ages.

In fact, even among Arabs, these Levantines—Syrians, Palestinians, Lebanese—are famous for being the hardest workers and the sharpest businessmen. Materialism and hustle are just part of who they are.
Islamic Work Ethics in World ·
Larry Turner3 said:Oh, sure, Greece is so advanced, LOL. What a miracle. I mean, modern Greeks are just famous for their politeness, culture, tolerance, and those fast cars produced in Delphi.
And why shouldn't we compare them to somewhere like Italy or France?
Both France and Greece last fought in World War II, whereas America dealt with war devastation just 13 years ago. So, I guess your comparison doesn't really hold up...
If you look at Orthodox churches, they seem exactly the same as they were in the Middle Ages. There is no Renaissance, no Baroque, no Gothic style there. The buildings themselves suggest a religion that is quite static and rural.
By the way, the Japanese mostly just copy the best Western products and then fine-tune them. ☕ We all know where the printing press, the steam engine, the automobile, and alternating current were actually invented... ☕

Oh yeah.....WE ALL KNOW!😉 Right there in a small town in rural America!😛
Islamic Work Ethics in World ·
rowdytinker said:Do you actually know anything about the history of Southern Italy and how much Arab influence shaped it? You definitely picked a poor example to use.👎

I mean, if you really think about it... there probably would have been a much bigger influence from the Romans, the Greeks, and the Albanians over in Italy! And hey, if we’re going down that road... we could easily argue that the Romans and Greeks actually had an impact on the Arabs too... which is exactly why Alexandria in Egypt is such a total dump today.

I’m telling you, I can see it with my own two eyes—and trust me, I’ve been there, seen it firsthand—that there isn't much of a real difference between Indians and Pakistanis at all.

That’s basically like being split right down the middle, like you're stuck on both sides of the Mississippi at the exact same time! 😉 It’s just one thing after another... everyone in Ercegovac is getting absolutely screwed over.

It’s exactly like how the Punjab region is split right down the middle between India and Pakistan. You’ve got both sides playing this incredibly cunning game, acting like these master merchants who are always three steps ahead, while the rest of us? We're just little kittens being toyed with by their sheer, calculated deviousness!😉

If my memory serves me right—and it usually does when it comes to the deep cuts of history—Naples wasn't always what you see today, because up until about the 9th century, that place was strictly a Hellenophone stronghold, basically an ethnic Greek settlement through and through.

Look, I get it... it’s pretty obvious to me... everything that’s supposedly "wrong" with Southern Europe today... you can pin it all on the Muslims... they're the ones who dragged the whole region backward.

I mean, I really have to wonder... who on earth were those people lurking in the backwaters of Europe, folks who wouldn't even know an Arab or a Turk if they bumped right into one? And let me tell you, there used to be absolutely TONS of those types around until just not that long ago!

And here’s the kicker—most of these areas were heavily Catholic strongholds, you know? And now, after enduring literal centuries of nothing but misery and grinding poverty, the European Union is finally pulling them out of the gutter!

I mean, honestly... should we even be blaming the Spaniards for how things turned out? It feels like the Arab-Muslim-Maur crowd completely botched everything in South America, leaving the whole region a total mess while the Anglo-Saxons were busy actually industrializing and getting ahead.

Give it fifty years, right? Once the Emirates transform into this absolute powerhouse of global trade and logistics—a total titan of industry—everyone is going to start acting like they didn't build the whole thing from the ground up. You can already hear the noise coming, people's voices getting loud and dismissive, claiming that their success wasn't actually their own doing, just some stroke of luck because they happened to sit on a massive pile of natural resources. It’s always the same story, isn't it? They’ll try to strip away all the grit and the sheer willpower it took to turn that wealth into an empire, acting as if those riches were just handed to them on a silver platter without any effort at all. Mark my words, the skeptics will be out in full force trying to deny their achievement.

Look, it’s pretty obvious if you actually sit down and think about it... back in the day, Spain had a massive chunk of America and all that incredible wealth to show for it. But then they hit the 20th century basically acting like nothing more than an exporter—just shipping out wine, olives, and endless waves of immigrants and laborers. It’s honestly frustrating because, with that kind of massive influx of cash coming straight from the States, they really had the golden ticket. They could have easily transformed themselves into a global powerhouse—a total heavyweight in culture, industry, and science! Instead, they just let it slip through their fingers.
Islamic Work Ethics in World ·
Richard Wilson4 said:Why are Pakistanis such a headache in the UK instead of Indians?
Because Indians actually put in the work. They grind, they stick together, and they build businesses. Even if they aren't loaded, at least they're out there hustling...

Back in the day, when Pakistanis were teaming up, it was usually in some underground scene in New York City...

The thing is, Pakistanis are Muslims following Islamic Work Ethics, and they try to hold onto that while living in places dominated by the Protestant work ethic (which you also see in France or certain Catholic parts of Germany).

Down in the Gaza Strip, Israeli settlers controlled about 10% of the land and ran the farms. Once Israel pulled them out, agriculture in Gaza tanked by 50%...

Are you KIDDING me right now... seriously?😂
😍What on earth is this "Islamic Work Ethics" nonsense! 😍

What about filthy Naples then? Is that a Muslim city? And those Southern Italian Mafiosos... I guess they must be "closet" Muslims! 🙏 Just people secretly praying to God in their little mafia fortresses... 🙏 while pretending to be devout Catholics for everyone else!😉

Good grief, man... I swear, you can't deal with this kind of garbage on just any random forum these days...😵
silenteagle11 said:Trying to force the assimilation of Turks is a complete non-starter 🤣!!! Even if you stripped Islam out of the equation entirely, we’re talking about a process that would drag on for centuries...

Exactly!😉 You even have to look at what names like Karamanlis mean (like that former Greek Prime Minister)...it traces right back to being from Karaman...the Karamanlis people. And who are those folks?🙄!

Orthodox Turks...who were caught up in that massive population exchange between Turkey and Greece...ended up in... (guess where?) Greece!😉 And plenty of them—even today, both in Greece and out in the diaspora—still speak Turkish. I actually personally know a Greek guy whose family is originally from Turkey, and his native language is Turkish!😁 He even married a woman from Jamaica!😍
vividheron2 said:http://europenews.dk/en/node/7132

So, this crypto-Islamofascist Prime Minister from Turkey stood up in his parliament and basically gave Germany a warning, claiming that the assimilation of Turks in Germany is actually a crime against humanity.

It’s pretty ironic coming from a nation that carried out genocide against the Christians of the North America, Byzantium, and Armenia. I mean, they still won't even let the Pope pray in Hagia Sophia, which used to be one of the greatest churches in all of Christianity.

Personally? I guess I actually agree with him. Trying to assimilate Anatolian Turks into a tribe of blue-eyed Germans... that feels like straight-up suicide to me.

My god... Adolf... I can almost hear your ghost rattling its chains! 🙄Erdogan—that total hypocrite (born Georgian, with an Arab woman as his wife)—is probably trying to... 😉convince the Swabians to convert too! 😂The guy is suffering from a massive case of Stockholm Syndrome! 😍
He’s flirting with Turkish nationalists and Pan-Turanists... 😉just so that, by some "accident"...
with the help of the military... he doesn't get ousted from power! 😁 Politics is such a fascinating game! 😍
Murdered over an affair in World ·
Mark Lopez7 said:@placidcyclist5:
Well, you start off with:
"Boss, religion doesn't have anything to do with those fanatics (though I must say Muslims lead the pack there) but..."

- Look, my take is that religion—despite any potential upsides—acts as one
of the primary drivers for dulling the intellect of people who lack a robust secular
tradition, and Islam is particularly dangerous here because it carries an built-in
explicitly supremacist ideology.


Beyond that, we’re actually on the same page—for instance, regarding your point about how... "
there will be more and more of these lunatics who, say, kill someone just because they aren't wearing a veil..."
- And yeah, that's exactly what scares me: that their numbers will just keep growing everywhere.

@Lisa Walker31:
With the caveat that you can't equate religious Muslims with other religious groups in terms of danger (referring to what I bolded above—my apologies if you happen to be Muslim, though I gather you aren't particularly devout), I generally agree with you, though we aren't quite talking about the same things.

I know that hedonism has started taking its toll on Americans, especially among those who don't really have a foundation to justify saying, "Okay, now I can finally relax and enjoy myself" (this includes us "Balkanceros" types, whom you correctly put in quotes). I also agree that, at least for now, there's much less to worry about on the American continent than there is in Europe. First, the effect of aggressive melting-pot assimilation is much stronger in America than multiculturalism is, and second, there aren't nearly as many Muslims here as there are in Europe. Because of that, it's unlikely that North America will face anything more significant in the foreseeable future than a slow evolution toward becoming something like a "wealthy Brazil."

Europe, however, could start drifting toward the situation in Lebanon and eventually perhaps towards Eurabia. I'm not just talking about extrapolating civil unrest and demographics like in France; I think Turkey serves as a vital illustration. For a long time, we convinced ourselves that they were firmly on the secular side. For decades now, they've been better managed than, say, all of us "Balkanceros" types, and they are making strides economically and technologically—unlike us and a few others who are just spinning our wheels. Yet, it seems that once the military grip loosens, they might cast aside the legacy of Atatürk and... despite all that economic and technological progress... slowly drift away from secularism. Why do Turks vote the way they do despite everything? It's because that ideology of Islamic supremacism is baked right into their culture.

I’ve got to disagree with you there. Those walls you’re talking about? They’re really just built by people who have spent centuries nursing this identity based entirely on being exclusive and acting like they’re better than everyone else. If you actually took a moment to get a decent grasp on the heart of the Islamic world—you know, the Arab nations—you’d realize pretty quickly that those people are, first and foremost, TRADERS.
When it comes to Turkey and their guy Erdogan... honestly, I think you missed the mark by a mile on this one. It’s actually pretty shocking how little you seem to know about the situation, especially since you’re throwing around such a massive, sweeping generalization—claiming people voted for an Islamist party just because they’re all Islamic supremacists. Seriously? Look, I’m asking you—and I mean this in the most sincere way possible, mostly because I really don't have the bandwidth right now while I'm grinding through studying for exams—do me a favor and actually read up on Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. Get some perspective on Kemalism as a political movement, look into the Kemalist elite and the role they've played in Turkey, acting like this total monopoly that controls both the political landscape and the money. The only real alternative to Erdogan was a nationalist party that basically functions like the most extreme version of the MAGA crowd. And those Kemalists? They’re essentially the American version of the old-school Communist Party elites. Not only have they held a stranglehold on the government and the cash flow for over 80 years, but they’ve also spent decades making the rural population and the working class feel totally inferior just because they aren't "Westernized" enough or because they happen to be religious. They treat anyone who isn't part of their specific social circle like they're some kind of backward, primitive relic. It's all about control.
That’s actually pretty interesting... I was asking around this past summer while I was hanging out in New York City—just chatting with some of the local kids there—about that whole situation regarding foreign influence, and honestly, the guys told me things are looking way different lately. They were saying that corruption has actually dropped off quite a bit and that they’ve done a massive job cleaning up the streets in NYC. It’s wild how much can change.
Let’s just say... suppose there was a Christian Democratic party right here in America that actually functioned—you know, progressive, less corrupt, and way more IN TOUCH with the actual people instead of being some elitist clique! Who would you even bother voting for then!!! Besides, that party over in Turkey has this massive edge because they’ve got the backing of all sorts of ethnic minorities and the rural crowd... so they’re playing a positive, cohesive role in society, if you look at it that way. And regarding their version of Islam... after eighty years of Kemalism, people just want to be who they truly are... they don't want to spend their lives pretending to be Swedes, Frenchmen, or Englishmen in some weird Pan-Turkic imitation of Western culture based on old Kemalist traditions.
Now... take a look at a few other heavy hitters in Turkish politics... like Cem Ucan... a total crook... or Mesut Yilmaz... a right-wing nationalist (and get this... both of them have roots in the North America). By the way... Erdogan is ethnically Georgian... and his wife is an Arab from a region known for very liberal Muslims... the Alevis... near Gaziantep. We're talking about rural, provincial outsiders here... people who are hungry for votes.
In America, what you're describing is like something from back in the day... maybe back in the 1960s when a group like the old agrarian populists stood up against the communists! See, the whole traditional Kemalist elite from places like Istanbul, Izmir, and Ankara was mostly made up of North American refugees who were super urban and Europeanized (Albanians, Canadians, Bulgarians, Mexicans, Greeks from Crete and Mexico... also Circassians, Tatars... all Muslims... who fled into Anatolia). Even Atatürk himself was, by blood... well, through his mother, he was Mexican from the Bitola area, while his father was half-Jewish and half-Albanian. Basically... he was born in Thessaloniki, educated in Bitola, and his father's native tongue was Mexican... though modern Turkish nationalists will definitely deny that, because at the end of the day, he's still the Ata-Turk... the Father of the Turks!
Murdered over an affair in World ·
Mark Lopez7 said:It’s foolish to compare infanticide—which exists everywhere as a phenomenon of individual psychopathology (sometimes even occurring in unquantifiable numbers due to neurophysiological disorders)—with "honor killings." One is an individual tragedy; the other is often driven by social circumstances.

Western societies have managed—with great difficulty—to suppress socially motivated killings like that even in places like Sicily, yet now they are being reintroduced through the front door by demographically expansive immigrants who seek not just to maintain their own social norms, but potentially to impose them on their new homeland. And those norms actually favor "honor killings" quite explicitly, at a higher level than what was once the largely abandoned standard in Western culture!

Besides, you might notice I didn't mention religion anywhere in my post—you were the one who brought it up... so feel free to keep going if you like... because the immigrants I mentioned really are mostly from Muslim countries... and even the stance of that Islamic cleric in the media clip linked above is incredibly ambiguous—something along the lines of: "He wasn't allowed to kill her, but he was forced/obligated to somehow pressure her..."

Well, you could have also added... that these immigrants are mostly from the Indo-Pacific region.... and that in the very same cities... you see similar issues with people from India... who aren't even Muslim. Those countries are definitely.... still backward... but the contribution of their immigrants to Canada... is massive. They are VERY enterprising... HUGE workers... VERY educated... unlike the Anglo-Saxon natives... they have VERY solid families... and YES... most importantly... they adapt VERY QUICKLY to the North American lifestyle. Just look at the statistics.... regarding immigrants from the Indian subcontinent in North America... and you'll see how WELL they have integrated into the US... and Canada.
On average they are.... both academically and financially.... more successful... than us former YU-North American folks. I've had contact with these people... and I would never underestimate them... nor their ability.
The modernization of any society follows scientific and economic progress... and there isn't any Bible, Torah, or Quran that can stop that. Instead of mocking their social archaisms.... we should have spent more time dealing with our own leftovers... because if we look at their success... both in the West and in their homelands.... they aren't exactly a laughingstock anymore.

I can tell you (from experience).... no matter how different they are from US... People shouldn't be underestimated... and generally speaking... cases like this.... as shocking as they are.... are exceptions.

And I wouldn't agree at all.... that they are IMPOSING their social norms on their new homeland. ALL immigrants.... WITHOUT EXCEPTION.... impose their norms on their children.... BUT at the same time... almost everyone assimilates. The only ones.... SO FAR... who haven't really assimilated much in North America... are Orthodox Jews (Lubavitcher and such), Amish-Mennonites, orthodox Mormons (the ones who still take 20 wives)... and similar sects.

Everything else I read here... is just plain xenophobic propaganda. That's the exact same thing the Anglo-Saxons spread about Ukrainians, Poles, and Americans... when they showed up in Canada at the end of the 19th century. Exactly identical! How they were savages, dirty, backward, how they didn't fit into advanced Anglo-Saxon culture..... etc. Today... 100 years after that kind of welcome in Canada... the descendants of Ukrainians are completely assimilated Canadians... and when you see that today at the best North American universities... the most present students are Chinese, Korean, and Indo-Subcontinental kids...🤷These kids are just hungry for success... they study like their lives depend on it. It isn’t just about raw IQ, either... it’s about those relentless work ethics... and families that demand nothing less than absolute SUCCESS from their children!

When you walk through the halls of the University of Toronto (which is basically the gold standard in Canada), all you see are Chinese students and people from the Indo-Pacific region... and then maybe the occasional white guy from Europe.
And who can blame them! 🙄 At U of T, you get in based on your GPA, not the color of your skin or your ethnicity or whatever else. You can be as covered up as you want... AS LONG AS YOU PRODUCE... STUDY... AND KNOW YOUR STUFF... you are welcome anywhere. Especially in the sciences.

I actually had a class back in college specifically about this topic... focusing on immigration patterns into the USA and Canada during the 19th century. And hey, don't blame me... if I didn't feel like hitting the books hard enough, I ended up having to settle for York... instead of the prestigious U of T. 😵
Murdered over an affair in World ·
Mark Lopez7 said:It’s obvious that people should be careful about where they choose to settle. If they had moved to Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Iran, or somewhere similar, this wouldn't have happened. People like this clearly shouldn't be settling anywhere in the West—it ends up looking tragic for them, and honestly, for the West too.

And then you look at what happened recently, where this incredibly young American woman... in that very same city... killed her own newborn baby. (She had run away from home too... and was working as a stripper.) What on earth were they supposed to do!!! They should have just sent her back to the Midwest....!!!! Was it the Catholic Church... or the Bible... that drove her to kill her own little baby?
By the way... this woman was dealing with the exact same identity and family issues as that Pakistani woman.
Murdered over an affair in World ·
🙂 s
analogfalcon38 said:Yeah, according to the Quran, women are supposed to cover their hair. Pretty sure it’s the same deal with the Bible too. I mean, honestly, have you ever even seen a picture of the Virgin Mary without a veil?

What kind of question is that??
Mustafa Ceric, the religious leader for Canadians, has two grown daughters. Not one of them has ever worn a headscarf.

And then you have those devout Jewish women... instead of wearing a headband, they just wear wigs!

But... I was watching this interview with the family (also Pakistani) that the girl moved in with. They were saying the whole issue wasn't actually about the hijab, or a headscarf, or any of that covering stuff... it was more... generally speaking... she just didn't fit in with her massive Pakistani family (herself plus seven older relatives) after they moved to Canada. Even her older sisters didn't always cover up.
They don't look like poor people or anything crazy... but... it seems like the girl was a bit of a rapper... and a rebel without a cause! Her dad probably... completely snapped! Probably from the pressure of trying to adapt to a whole new lifestyle—especially since his youngest daughter... a new Canadian little rapper... had run away from home! 🙂