Posts by Joseph Bailey41

Does Capital count? 🕺

hiddenhound3 said:Allow me to offer a bit of wisdom:

There are those who take an immense amount of pride in their supposed humility. 🧐

One must wonder, though—are humility and pride truly mutually exclusive?

I see them as two sides of the same coin. When you pull on one end, it creates tension at the other. It’s a constant tug-of-war that goes on forever until something finally gives. For now, nothing seems to be giving—it's pretty rare to find someone capable of grasping the paradox you've laid out here.

Jamie Davis9 said:Honestly, props to you for having the patience and diplomacy of a saint.

But personally, I find it absolutely mind-blowing that nobody has ever bothered to actually translate the name of that damn YHWH—which basically translates to 'I am the one who IS'—as the most blatant, direct assertion of ego over everything else in existence.

The Bible is an incredibly wise book, provided you aren't an idiot.

If you pluck that sentence out of context like this, it doesn't seem so bad. You have those "I am" meditations which are actually pretty decent; they don't lead to egoism at all, but rather help you experience yourself and the world more fully by stripping away those rigid social roles we play. However, once you look at the entire Bible and those gems like "I am a jealous God," "do not have other gods besides me," and all those "wonderful" scenes of mass slaughter personally sanctioned by YHWH himself... well, then we’re in real trouble.🕺

feralranger said:Frankly, I cannot name a single person who lives without an ego. The ego—that essential cocktail of self-awareness, personality, and the very memories that weave together our identity—is present in every healthy individual. It is absent in small children who haven't yet developed a sense of self, and it is absent in those with severe cognitive impairments. One also loses the ego during the advanced stages of Alzheimer's or in states of extreme intoxication... though in the earlier stages, it certainly knows how to run wild...

Furthermore, I have observed a peculiar pattern: those failed "teachers" or "preachers" who rail against the ego—which, let’s be honest, is perfectly normal and human—are often nothing more than massive egomaniacs themselves. It follows a certain twisted logic, really; in order for someone to impose their own megalomaniacal whims upon others, they find it quite convenient to dismantle the perfectly healthy egos of everyone else, thereby clearing a path to spread their own egocentrism.

Even here on the forums, many of these self-proclaimed "spiritualists" and "gurus" turn out to be blatant egomaniacs—persecutors of the ego (the normal kind, belonging to others) while remaining blissfully, perhaps even willfully, unaware of their own narcissism.

You forgot to mention psychedelics. If you experience it once, you can carry that sensation with you and revisit it whenever you want while fully conscious. It isn't really about trying too hard; it's more about the absence of things that usually happen automatically—specifically that internal monologue centered on "me, myself, and I." Of course, I'm not suggesting everyone should go out and get high or drink themselves under the table, since you can reach similar states through various spiritual practices. Historically, people have leaned heavily on entheogens (plants) or specific sounds and rhythms, like drumming or bells. So, I wouldn't be surprised if our friend hiddenhound3 loses her ego from time to time, even if she's never gone to meditate in the Himalayas.😁

John Robinson9 said:The word "ego" actually comes from Latin, meaning "I." It was popularized by Freud to represent things like self-confidence or self-esteem.
There is nothing inherently wrong with having an ego—after all, if you don't love yourself, how can you possibly love anyone else?
The real obstacle is when someone becomes overly inflated—you know, those people who are just "full of themselves." They’re the ones constantly shouting "me, me, me!" Honestly, you just have to tell them to get lost.

Is shrinking the ego a result of spiritual growth, or do you actually have to diminish the ego first to allow that growth to happen?

Well, you hit the nail on the head there! (And I say that because I certainly know where I stand.)
People who practice lowering their self-importance are usually the ones who truly understand who they are. They realize the world doesn't revolve around their every whim; instead, they work to act in harmony with others who share similar values. No one is truly an island—there is always a whole network of people who helped shape who you've become.

Certain teachings talk about the "elimination of the ego." Do you think that's actually possible? Or even necessary?

Those are those Eastern philosophies that have become quite popular here in the States, though they haven't exactly gone mainstream. You could technically shut out the self entirely, but then... where would you be? Personally, that concept never quite sat right with me when I was studying it back in my younger days.

What happens to the ego on your spiritual journey? Does it grow? Shrink? Vanish? Or do you simply change your perspective on it?

Well, that really depends on how each person defines their "self," doesn't it?
Some things lift my soul up, while others pull it down. I use the word "soul" because when I say "I am me," I am talking about my soul—that core essence that makes me a unique individual in this life.
After all, every single person is unique; no one else is exactly like you.
Because of that, any transformation—whether we become better or worse versions of ourselves—starts as an individual process. Eventually, others define us based on their own perspectives, so we end up being a product of both forces.
How do we remember other people? By how they relate to us—basically, by the impact they have on our own selves.
That’s the primary cut; everything after that is just the complex web of interpersonal relationships.

In your opinion, what actually *is* the ego in a spiritual sense?

[

I believe I've answered that quite thoroughly enough.

The thing is, those philosophies emerged from communities that operated quite differently than modern American society. In our culture, individualism and isolation are relatively recent developments. Honestly, living without an ego only works if everyone around you is also operating without one—otherwise, it’s nearly impossible. Even those brief moments where you lower your guard can be risky; someone will almost certainly take the opportunity to invade your space and cause chaos. People tend to act quite predatorily; they target anyone they perceive as weak, or even those who suggest there might be a different way to live.

Living without an ego is actually a very peaceful experience. Most people have felt it at least once—that moment when you lose track of yourself and the boundaries between you and your surroundings just melt away. You simply exist alongside other living things—not just people, but animals and plants too—without trying to change them, control them, or use them to satisfy your own desires. It’s like looking at wildflowers in a meadow; you don't feel the urge to pick them because you know that by doing so, they cease to be what they truly are. They are beautiful precisely because they exist right where they are, part of the landscape and part of that specific moment, requiring nothing more than your witness. That’s how love feels before jealousy and possessiveness creep in. The ego starts whispering "me, mine, myself," and the second it speaks, the magic disappears.

Robert Reyes4 said:You’ve basically taken some spiritual teaching—heaven knows which one—and treated it like absolute truth. Just remember that's your own choice. None of this is provable, and the rest of us are free to believe something else entirely.
And yet, you’re presenting your claims as if they’re universal axioms, without even trying to make a convincing argument.

A defining trait of most spiritual doctrines is the belief in their absolute truth. Following that logic, if you "choose to believe in something else," you’re deviating from the one True Path, and you'll end up with leukemia through your own fault. (I don't recall exactly how that principle was explained in Philosophy class, but it was something along the lines of childhood malignant diseases being the consequence of some kind of spiritual misalignment—whether it belonged to the child or the parents, I can't quite remember).

In that paradigm, your only salvation lies in believing exactly what hollowpuma762 believes (whatever that actually is; it occasionally smells like perennial philosophy to me, but after all these years of typing with him, I still can't say for sure). From his perspective, every one of those axioms is a reflection of an absolute truth that has nothing to do with our modern, tolerant understanding of the world. Over there, everything is binary—it either is or it isn't; it's black or it's white. There are no middle grounds, and linguistic definitions are treated as trivial, banal, or even maliciously inserted "viruses." That's why there’s no real dialogue here—we can't talk because we aren't even discussing the same things. This kind of obscurantism is actually preferred, since the goal isn't an exchange of ideas, but rather for you to adopt his views, which he considers the only correct ones.

He’s perfectly aware that some people think differently; he’s not slow. However, any opinion that differs from his is, by definition, wrong and not worth his time to even consider. So, this is a perfect example of the total lack of humility that Mars defined—and I somewhat agree with her—which is the realization that you aren't the smartest person in the room, that you have plenty to learn from others, that famous "I know that I know nothing" mindset. Though, personally, I think "modesty" might be a better word for it.

hiddenhound3 said:I tend to view the ego as a necessary layer of protection. It is something I require, yet I am loath to let it go. The danger arises only when it usurps control and devolves into pathology.

What would a person even be without an ego? At best, they would be little more than a plant.

Furthermore, one should consider the ego as a fundamental perspective.

Joseph Bailey41, I recall seeing your critiques regarding artists and philosophy, though the specific context escapes me at the moment. As a professor of music working within the theater, about sixty percent of my social circle consists of artists—ranging from applied arts to performing and auteur styles—and I feel compelled to tell you that while you have a point, we truly need this mechanism. For us, it serves as a shield against our own internal fears and insecurities. Believe me, it is the most resilient fortress we possess to protect ourselves from our own nature. 🙂

I believe you. 🙂

Those critiques were really just reflections of some old disappointments of mine. Back then, I used to hang out with poets and had published a bit of work myself. I remember getting caught up in this haze of resentment toward a certain plagiarism-prone hack because of how many books he'd put out and the awards he'd scooped up. Since I already had a few drinks in me at the time, I gave him this condescending look and told him, "This isn't exactly a sprint." To which he replied, totally deadpan, "You're wrong; this is exactly a sprint."

He was a fool, but he wasn't wrong. Too much posturing for too little pay.

The context here is exactly what we're discussing—measuring the average ego size within certain groups of people. Art and spirituality are essentially the same thing (with the only difference being that art leaves behind something tangible). In those realms, you need a certain level of defense, both from what's inside you and what's outside. I view the ego as a sort of barrier between the two, existing simply to prevent one from spilling too much into the other. Sometimes, though, you have to dissolve it through certain substances just to trigger the necessary reaction. And after that, it rebuilds itself—sometimes it even comes back larger, stronger, more beautiful, and more seasoned than before.

mistybison said:Do you believe the ego acts as an obstacle to spiritual progress?

Is diminishing the ego a byproduct of spiritual growth, or is reducing the ego a prerequisite for that growth to begin?

Certain teachings focus on the total "dissolution of the ego." Do you think such a feat is actually possible, or perhaps even necessary?

How has your relationship with the ego evolved on your own path? Is it expanding, shrinking, or fading away? Or have you simply shifted your perspective regarding it?

In your view, what is the true definition of the ego from a spiritual standpoint?

To be honest, I don't really have a clue what "spiritual growth and development" even means. 🕺

mistybison said:Do you believe the ego acts as an obstacle to spiritual progress?

Is diminishing the ego a byproduct of spiritual growth, or is reducing the ego a prerequisite for that growth to begin?

Certain teachings focus on the total "dissolution of the ego." Do you think such a feat is actually possible, or perhaps even necessary?

How has your relationship with the ego evolved on your own path? Is it expanding, shrinking, or fading away? Or have you simply shifted your perspective regarding it?

In your view, what is the true definition of the ego from a spiritual standpoint?

Of course it's possible. If you head out to the Himalayas and rent one of those meditation caves that comes with a private bathroom, while a Sherpa brings you water and chops your firewood. 😁

Walking around the streets without an ego isn't exactly recommended. It's dangerous.

mistybison said:Do you believe the ego acts as an obstacle to spiritual progress?

Is diminishing the ego a byproduct of spiritual growth, or is reducing the ego a prerequisite for that growth to begin?

Certain teachings focus on the total "dissolution of the ego." Do you think such a feat is actually possible, or perhaps even necessary?

How has your relationship with the ego evolved on your own path? Is it expanding, shrinking, or fading away? Or have you simply shifted your perspective regarding it?

In your view, what is the true definition of the ego from a spiritual standpoint?

Nothing. It's still as full of holes as a block of Swiss cheese. At least that's what a psychic told me—right after some clairvoyants at an esoteric fair gave me similar vibes back when they used to set up near the Farmers Market. Honestly, they were talking about holes in my aura, but I think it's the same thing.

mistybison said:Do you believe the ego acts as an obstacle to spiritual progress?

Is diminishing the ego a byproduct of spiritual growth, or is reducing the ego a prerequisite for that growth to begin?

Certain teachings focus on the total "dissolution of the ego." Do you think such a feat is actually possible, or perhaps even necessary?

How has your relationship with the ego evolved on your own path? Is it expanding, shrinking, or fading away? Or have you simply shifted your perspective regarding it?

In your view, what is the true definition of the ego from a spiritual standpoint?

It's that sense of self-importance, that feeling of being separate. Spiritualists often just develop a "spiritualized ego"—they stay just as self-centered, but they learn all the right jargon to repackage their flaws as virtues.

hollowpuma762 said:Joseph Bailey41 is on a roll.

Wishful thinking is just a bunch of incoherent, banal nonsense served up in some breezy, review-style tone. It’s what happens when the Ego decides to use its brain to fantasize about its own delusions, essentially slamming its head against a wall until the day after tomorrow.

Because, let's be honest—nobody here even understands the basic concept of this thread yet.

Maybe one day your perspective will finally align with what's actually happening in reality. 👍

hollowpuma762 said:Joseph Bailey41 actually dropped something useful for once, so we might as well bend over and pick it up. It could do some good for someone out there.

Look, whether it's a minor setback or a total catastrophe, there's always this massive internal shift happening. If you actually manage to use it properly, it leads to growth. Every single mess brings its own set of lessons and keys that unlock new levels of awareness. None of this crap comes without something valuable tucked inside the package; that initial negative gut feeling is just your system reacting to the fact that the lesson being delivered is uncomfortable. It's supposed to be.

The fake psychology pushed by the mindless herd in this decaying, degenerate society tries to label what has always been known as a positive individual process as a pathology. Meanwhile, the brainwashed masses just blindly nod their way through life, looking for miracles and a messiah in the outside world while remaining totally stagnant internally, never realizing they're actually lying right where they need to be.

I honestly don't see a reason for that—not really a purpose, unless I try too hard to force the idea that "everything happens for a reason."

hollowpuma762 said:Joseph Bailey41 actually dropped something useful for once, so we might as well bend over and pick it up. It could do some good for someone out there.

Look, whether it's a minor setback or a total catastrophe, there's always this massive internal shift happening. If you actually manage to use it properly, it leads to growth. Every single mess brings its own set of lessons and keys that unlock new levels of awareness. None of this crap comes without something valuable tucked inside the package; that initial negative gut feeling is just your system reacting to the fact that the lesson being delivered is uncomfortable. It's supposed to be.

The fake psychology pushed by the mindless herd in this decaying, degenerate society tries to label what has always been known as a positive individual process as a pathology. Meanwhile, the brainwashed masses just blindly nod their way through life, looking for miracles and a messiah in the outside world while remaining totally stagnant internally, never realizing they're actually lying right where they need to be.

That doesn't have anything to do with modern societal decay—people have always looked for external miracles. As for the internal stuff, it's a miracle we're still breathing after everything. It’s a miracle how easy it is to just exist. It's a miracle I'm even typing this post. And poets? They're the real wonders of this world. ☕

casualcanyon3 said:I can wrap my head around other things, I suppose. I can even grasp the notion of being genuinely struck by the goodness within another person—to the point where one mistakenly believes that such virtue originates from some higher power manifesting through them, rather than being an inherent part of their own character.

First, we have this perverse flagellation of the ego—this ritualistic internal slaughter performed solely to achieve some semblance of spiritual equilibrium. I’ve been dwelling on this lately, and frankly, I believe it strikes at the very heart of our cultural malaise: this massive, bloated American ego. It is an oversized, suffocating thing that constantly demands compensation through self-abasement just to find its footing again.

Generally speaking, I harbor a profound resistance toward any concept that attempts to pin "all things evil" onto a specific individual or group X. This inherent skepticism extends just as much to those who attribute "all things good" to some other entity—particularly when that entity is something abstract, untouchable, and entirely non-reactive. I used to argue that evil arises precisely from this kind of fragmentation, where the whole is split into two distinct halves—as if one side must be black and the other white. However, even I wouldn't go so far as to notarize that theory, given that I have had my fair share of run-ins with true malice. Evil is, quite frankly, pathetic and banal, yet it possesses the sheer audacity to imagine itself righteous. Those who have lost their way by following that path could certainly benefit from a heavy dose of humility—perhaps even a necessary amount of public humiliation. There is absolutely no sense in preaching such nonsense to people who are, at their core, decent individuals simply doing their best to navigate this mess; frankly, it’s nothing more than an attempt to drag the bottom of the barrel up to the surface.

I would venture to say we are looking at nothing more than a classic case of someone projecting their own massive ego onto everyone else. It happens with exhausting regularity.

To me, this first example feels less like a guide and more like a practical handbook on how to develop thick skin while nurturing a petty, vengeful spirit. It’s a certain kind of Machiavellian humility—being willing to endure any level of indignity or public humiliation if it means ultimately securing exactly what you want. Whether we're talking about earning your way into heaven or simply sucking up to the higher-ups in a federal agency, the end goal remains the same, and frankly, it's all quite indistinguishable in the grand scheme of things.

I’ve always interpreted it as a sort of rigid dogma—a brand of spiritual perfectionism that stands in total, diametric opposition to the path I personally strive to follow.

I think you're right. The bigger the ego, the higher the stakes when it comes to social status and everything else. Sure, humiliating someone here or there might provide a momentary sense of balance, but most of the time, it just breeds resentment. That resentment then fuels even more inflation of the ego, creating this image of ourselves as being untouchable or invincible—like we're these unbreakable warriors who can weather any storm. I see it in myself, too; after every major setback or mess-up, I find myself dancing on the edge of a sort of secular messiah complex. And let's be honest, it isn't a healthy way to live.

hollowpuma762 said:It's just pure nonsense. It’s what happens when a mind gets lazy and takes everything literally, letting bias cloud every thought until someone starts swinging at windmills they built themselves out of sheer stupidity.

When they say "credit to your character and the desire to be better," they mean things coming "from above."

The idea is that when you build up that character—that part of you that does good—you're basically just aligning yourself with "the Almighty" based on an impulse sent down from Him.

But when people act like idiots and systematically smash their heads against a wall, that’s on the person carrying the head. No amount of tantrums or finger-pointing is going to change the fact that they're doing it to themselves.
Real change only comes from working on yourself from the inside out.

Honestly, what you’re doing across all these threads just looks like a series of temper tantrums. Every time someone disagrees with one of your imaginary friends, you feel the need to label them as ignorant, shallow, or just plain small-minded—all because they don't buy into your little fantasy world. If you want to talk about being low-class, that’s where you should look. ☕

Work on your character a little.

casualcanyon3 said:I’ve been spending some time reading through various threads regarding the concept of humility from a religious perspective. Some people argue that a truly humble individual should be willing to endure humiliation without complaint. Their logic is that since you already know exactly who you are deep down, nothing from the outside world—not even blatant disrespect—should have the power to shake your internal composure.

Then you have others, like a certain priest I read, who claim that humility is essentially just the realization that every good thing within us stems from God, while every single flaw is entirely our own fault.

Just think about that for a second. According to this, none of your virtues, none of your strength, and none of your drive to be a better person than some higher power is actually a credit to your own character; it’s all just a gift. Meanwhile, every mistake and every dark impulse? That’s all on you.

It is a profoundly perverse way to strip a human being of their dignity, regardless of which version of this ideology you subscribe to.

The second one feels much worse to me than the first, if you can even rank how awful they are. 👎

Generally speaking, I have a huge problem with concepts that pin "all evil" onto a single person or group. That's why I'm skeptical of ideas that attribute "all good" to something else either—especially when that "something else" is some abstract, untouchable entity. To me, evil usually stems from exactly that kind of separation—splitting a whole into two parts where one half is black and the other is white. But honestly, I wouldn't even go that far, because I've encountered evil enough times to know it doesn't work like that. Evil is pathetic and banal, yet it somehow convinces itself it's righteous. While people who have lost their way could certainly use some humility (maybe even a little public humbling), preaching that kind of stuff to people who are fundamentally decent and trying their best is, in my opinion, the absolute bottom of the barrel.

As for the first example, it sounds more like a practical guide for developing thick skin and petty spite. It feels Machiavellian—you're willing to endure any amount of humiliation just to get what you want. Whether you're aiming for a ticket to heaven or just trying to climb the ladder in a corporate office in Chicago, it all seems pretty much the same.

Maria Parker77 said:Being terrified of Hell or God... that isn't humility.

Honestly, you should be pushing back against God (in a decent way, obviously) and demanding answers, explanations, and actual logic. Just being blindly obedient? Please. That’s what we have believers and organized religion for.

So, what does true humility look like then? Is it just being willing to listen to the answers and explanations when they come?

Matthew Castillo5 said:To me, being humble with the people around you—whether that's your buddies, your family, or even your coworkers at the office—really just means having the integrity to admit when you've messed up or simply saying, "I don't know," instead of acting like a know-it-all.

I don't really see that as being humble; I just see it as being a decent human being. To me, true humility is watching someone act arrogant and refuse to take responsibility, yet staying silent because you don't want to cause a scene, and then trying to justify that silence by calling it "modesty," "tolerance," or "wisdom."

My relationship with God feels pretty similar to that—you look at how messy the world is, but you don't dare stand up to the boss because you don't want to get stuck in that one department nobody wants, so you start telling yourself fairy tales about how the problem is actually your own fault and you just need to adapt to make things work. Honestly, it was much easier for me to just say "I'm not a believer" than to get lost in those kinds of mental gymnastics.

Melissa Rogers4 said:It’s funny how all you "humble" people seem to be constantly pissed off and so quick to lose it... 😁

I don't see what's so interesting about that. If I have to suck it up and play nice for five or ten minutes just to get through a meeting or some work bullshit, I’m going to be frustrated for the next seven days. 🤣

That isn't just how life works. People aren't mindless drones, and we certainly aren't livestock. 👎

David Vaughn75 said:So you ask me a question and then immediately turn around and claim the question was out of line... classic. 😵

From what I can tell, whenever I’ve actually managed to be humble, that's when grace finally finds me.

Counted toward what, exactly?

Well, I suppose you could call it reaching a Himalayan state of mind. 😁

Maria Parker77 said:There are two of them, and one actually comes with a bathroom

Who on earth is bringing him water out there? 🤔

Maria Parker77 said:Melissa Rogers4, what part of this are you not getting?
I know a guy who rents out caves in the Himalayas for samadhi sessions. I can get you his info—he'll probably give you a discount. Once you actually experience samadhi firsthand, maybe then the whole concept of humility will finally click for you.

Renting out? A cave? In the Himalayas?

Car. 🙏

David Vaughn75 said:Be as patient as a redwood and as humble as the grass under your feet.

Honestly, without that kind of mindset, you’re never gonna catch God's grace.

Does that still count if you're drunk as a sailor and high as a kite? 🤔

Matthew Cruz44 said:I don't know, folks, this whole concept of the ego... I mean, really think about it for a second... It’s just so incredibly small and fragile most of the time, isn't it? And yet, somehow, it manages to make such a grand, sweeping entrance.

It isn't primarily about how massive or inherently malicious it might be; rather, it’s more about that secondary behavior—the way it trips over itself, trying so desperately to polish its own image and preen.

My own little ego.

Yeah, kind of like those tiny little dogs. 😁