Larry Moore83 said:Well, of course we are human. Besides, stating the obvious feels a bit... I don't know, totally anachronistic at this point, wouldn't you agree? 😁
Larry Moore83 said:And then there’s this whole business of declaring oneself...😵 Who actually needs a census on how many atheists or believers are out there? It isn't like you can go apply for a job based on being an atheist—as if there were some specialized niche waiting for someone holding a first class certificate. 🤣 I mean, really, who is this for? Being an atheist, or, well, the alternative, obviously. 😁
I’ll happily take the atheist stance against Vatican City, but you, my friend, can be whoever you want to be. Honestly, it’s your call. As far as I know, there isn't a contract signed with the devil in Canada... so you should be fine for now... at least until those fanatics start showing up in much larger numbers.
It’s always the same old argument: "all atheists are actually believers who just don't realize it yet." Honestly, as long as people keep pushing that kind of nonsense, I’m sticking firmly to my identity as an atheist. I'll leave the "spiritual shopping" via Wikipedia searches to someone else when times are better.
silentviper19 said:Man, the way you spin things is wild. It honestly makes me wonder how people who are clearly smart can wade through such shallow streams of ignorance and hypocrisy.
You're an atheist and a materialist just like me, yet somehow you claim to have some "spiritual energy" that I lack because I'm being principled while you aren't. Because, in my book, either all miracles and spiritual experiences are real, or none of them are.
And you say we pull our determinism from different sources?? That's just not right. You're pulling from both, whereas I stick to just one. See, you don't believe in Santa Claus, and you definitely don't think Zeus sent spiritual energy to Milan via tarot cards, but I bet you still believe in the Resurrection.
Now it's my turn to speak up—thanks, Joe, but I've realized there's really nothing left for me to look for here.
Though, I’m still not quite sure about visionary Milan... the troll is strong with him. That charisma is something else... truly unbelievable. 😲
I don't really get how exploring your own psyche can lead you to something that has nothing to do with who you are. To me, it feels a lot like psychological projection. But hey, if someone's delusions actually help them become a better person, who am I to argue?
I get where you're coming from. But I have to disagree. For me, it started with the physical body, and then, well, the spirit followed. That doesn't make the latter any less significant, obviously. In fact, the spirit is the direct result of all those long, empty years of evolution, which is exactly why we should cherish it—just like we cherish this one single life we get. There you go: a little introduction to what I call atheist spirituality. 😉
It took me a second to wrap my head around what you were getting at, but I think I’m on board. I still have my reservations about that part regarding spiritual origins, though. But honestly, it’s probably not worth getting hung up on whether it was the chicken or the egg. The bottom line is that it exists. 😍
Michael Gonzalez77 said:I agree that organized religion feels like a cage, but we have to realize that the mechanistic dogma pushed by the materialistic scientific paradigm is just another version of the same thing.
Being an atheist just means you don't believe in God. Adopting a rigid, mechanistic worldview? That's entirely optional.
But look, that isn't some deep definition of spirituality, nor is it just "my" subjective little interpretation.
Here’s my own subjective take on the term:
"Spirituality" = a person's inherent capacity or ability to perceive the spiritual.
How would you even define "spiritual"? It’s one of those words that people throw around all the time, but as soon as you try to pin it down, it just slips through your fingers. To me, it isn't necessarily about being religious or following a specific set of doctrines. I think it's more about that internal connection to something larger than yourself—whether that’s nature, the universe, or just a deep sense of purpose. It’s that quiet feeling you get when you’re out hiking in the Rockies or staring up at a clear night sky in the desert, where everything suddenly feels interconnected and meaningful. It’s less about ritual and more about intention and awareness. It’s trying to live in a way that aligns with your core values, even when life gets messy. I’m still figuring out what my own definition looks like, honestly. I tend to overthink these things, which probably doesn't help. But I'd love to hear how you all see it. 😉
hollowpuma762 said:If we ignore the blatant attempt at a joke here—the one fixated on an obviously undefined concept and loaded with heavy-handed hints:
a) Holy books from various religions contain wisdom that can help develop a person's spiritual side.
b) The internet is crawling with nonsense, sure, but in that massive sea of data, it’s possible to find useful stuff if you actually have the sense to recognize it.
Look, if you want any kind of argument to even be worth considering, it has to start with a sound logical process.
This one doesn't.
Alright, give me a logical explanation for "ether" and I promise I'll stop messing with you. Cross my heart.
Michael Gonzalez77 said:There’s a huge group of people calling themselves atheists who don't actually fit the mold. Their views lean toward higher intelligence rather than those rigid, mechanistic paradigms people usually associate with atheism.
Spirituality is right there within reach for everyone. It's the ultimate expression of one's own Ownership. It really just comes down to paying attention—learning to notice things that exist outside of mental conventions, beyond internal determinism, and past the trickery of our senses. Because of that, believing in some version of God or clinging to strict mechanistic laws doesn't actually make spiritual realization any easier or harder. To truly experience spirituality, all of that has to become irrelevant. You have to move past the standard intellectual setup and that thing everyone swears by called "reason," which, if you ask me, isn't much more than self-hypnosis and pure fantasy.
Look, there’s certainly a wide variety of people in this discussion. But if you think about it, religion, by its very definition, acts as a middleman between an individual and the spiritual—the soul, or whatever term you prefer to use for that higher connection. By inserting itself into that space, it actually makes direct contact harder to achieve, all while serving as a tool to manipulate the masses for purely material gains. I'm not saying there aren't some good people within these institutions, but fundamentally, I believe organized religion ends up being detrimental to the human spirit.
hollowpuma762 said:There are a few instances, sure, but that comment about Monsanto is the perfect example. It’s just pure guesswork regarding serious issues, yet it's being presented as if it's an established fact. It really just comes down to how things are phrased.
Now that’s a classic piece of sarcasm right there.
She didn't help you realize anything new.
Spirituality lives within people and themselves, not on some internet forum. A forum can provide information to help someone rationalize the spiritual side of reality and the human experience.
The rest is up to them.
Ether, right? Exactly—spirituality is found in people and in oneself, not tucked away in holy books or the nonsense charlatans post online.
So, I’ll stick to my original point: spirituality is actually more accessible to atheists than it is to believers.
Thanks for the compliment, but I was definitely raised and shaped by the values of the last century. 😳
They tried to push all sorts of authorities and holy books on me (like they do with everyone, really), but I’ve always found secular literature much more convincing. That doesn't mean I don't occasionally turn to a spiritual practice if it feels meaningful or necessary in the moment, though.
Pretty much. But honestly, we’re moving out of religious territory and straight into sci-fi now. If we want to follow that logic, there's even the possibility that we eventually engineer some kind of god or gods capable of time travel, meaning they could already be walking among us. Sort of like a Terminator. 😬
Either way, I just don't see any reason why we'd end up worshipping a miracle like that.