ironharbor8 said:@ Morgan Brown5
Which of these Merriam-Webster definitions for "normal" are we actually discussing here?
1
: perpendicular; specifically: perpendicular to a tangent at a point of tangency
2
a : in accordance with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle
b : conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern
3
: occurring naturally
4
a : relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development
b : free from mental disorder: sane
5
a regarding a solution: having a concentration of one gram equivalent of solute per liter
b : containing neither basic hydroxyl nor acid hydrogen
c : not associated
d : having a straight-chain structure
6
of a subgroup: possessing the property that every coset produced by operating on the left by a given element is equal to the coset produced by operating on the right by the same element
7
: relating to, involving, or being a normal curve or normal distribution
***
I find it difficult to align myself with your assertions.
Why does calmness carry a desirable connotation while excitement does not? Without excitement, in a broader sense, there is no procreation. I assume you would agree that procreation is a normal and positive phenomenon in the observable world.😁
Harmony and disharmony? Is there a mathematical formula that can indisputably determine disharmony?
Indian classical and spiritual music is full of irregular rhythms, so by your logic, is it also unnatural? Are Ravi Shankar and Zakir Hussain creating abnormal music?
And why is catharsis considered desirable and normal?
I don't think you quite caught my drift. I was just making a broad distinction between harmonics and disharmonics—natural versus unnatural. It isn't about personal opinion; it’s about the natural laws that even classical music is woven into... things backed up by studies from American scientists over the last 50 years, and even by the work of Masaru Emoto regarding water crystallization. That's the fundamental difference I was pointing out. It's not about whether it's inherently good or bad, just what it means to have that effect...
***
ironharbor8 said:@ Morgan Brown5
Which of these Merriam-Webster definitions for "normal" are we actually discussing here?
1
: perpendicular; specifically: perpendicular to a tangent at a point of tangency
2
a : in accordance with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle
b : conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern
3
: occurring naturally
4
a : relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development
b : free from mental disorder: sane
5
a regarding a solution: having a concentration of one gram equivalent of solute per liter
b : containing neither basic hydroxyl nor acid hydrogen
c : not associated
d : having a straight-chain structure
6
of a subgroup: possessing the property that every coset produced by operating on the left by a given element is equal to the coset produced by operating on the right by the same element
7
: relating to, involving, or being a normal curve or normal distribution
***
I find it difficult to align myself with your assertions.
Why does calmness carry a desirable connotation while excitement does not? Without excitement, in a broader sense, there is no procreation. I assume you would agree that procreation is a normal and positive phenomenon in the observable world.😁
Harmony and disharmony? Is there a mathematical formula that can indisputably determine disharmony?
Indian classical and spiritual music is full of irregular rhythms, so by your logic, is it also unnatural? Are Ravi Shankar and Zakir Hussain creating abnormal music?
And why is catharsis considered desirable and normal?
I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me. A plurality of opinions is healthy, provided there's actual substance behind them. I'm not claiming what I've laid out is some urgent priority today—mostly because it's impossible to fix, much like the ozone layer above us...🙂
ironharbor8 said:@ Morgan Brown5
Which of these Merriam-Webster definitions for "normal" are we actually discussing here?
1
: perpendicular; specifically: perpendicular to a tangent at a point of tangency
2
a : in accordance with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle
b : conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern
3
: occurring naturally
4
a : relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development
b : free from mental disorder: sane
5
a regarding a solution: having a concentration of one gram equivalent of solute per liter
b : containing neither basic hydroxyl nor acid hydrogen
c : not associated
d : having a straight-chain structure
6
of a subgroup: possessing the property that every coset produced by operating on the left by a given element is equal to the coset produced by operating on the right by the same element
7
: relating to, involving, or being a normal curve or normal distribution
***
I find it difficult to align myself with your assertions.
Why does calmness carry a desirable connotation while excitement does not? Without excitement, in a broader sense, there is no procreation. I assume you would agree that procreation is a normal and positive phenomenon in the observable world.😁
Harmony and disharmony? Is there a mathematical formula that can indisputably determine disharmony?
Indian classical and spiritual music is full of irregular rhythms, so by your logic, is it also unnatural? Are Ravi Shankar and Zakir Hussain creating abnormal music?
And why is catharsis considered desirable and normal?
I’m not making any grand claims here; I’m just talking about how these two extremes hit me personally. To be honest, music centered on decay, blood, and death doesn't do anything for me. At the same time, I don't feel like I need loud music just to get worked up. Don't get me wrong, there are incredible moments when blasting high-energy tracks with good friends gets the adrenaline pumping... but that's just a physical rush. It's like someone getting a sudden jolt from listening to black metal. It creates friction, sure, but there's no spiritual depth to it... 🙂
The kind of calm I’m talking about... I see it more as our natural state. Friction isn't natural; it's just external noise hitting the nervous system without any spiritual depth. And I don't mean being passive or checking out from reality—which is what most music tries to do—or becoming numb and indifferent. I mean a sense of fulfillment. That quiet happiness and genuine life energy that this kind of music brings out in you. It gives you this mental clarity that actually helps you solve problems. It lets you take a break from all that constant brain chatter and anxiety... that messy, unstable emotional rollercoaster most people ride through their entire day. Those thoughts usually bubble up from the subconscious and you just can't shake them. If those negative thoughts weren't there, we'd all be infinitely better at everything we do... even when we're feeling excited. That's the dimension of spiritual music. Other music just doesn't have it...
ironharbor8 said:@ Morgan Brown5
Which of these Merriam-Webster definitions for "normal" are we actually discussing here?
1
: perpendicular; specifically: perpendicular to a tangent at a point of tangency
2
a : in accordance with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle
b : conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern
3
: occurring naturally
4
a : relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development
b : free from mental disorder: sane
5
a regarding a solution: having a concentration of one gram equivalent of solute per liter
b : containing neither basic hydroxyl nor acid hydrogen
c : not associated
d : having a straight-chain structure
6
of a subgroup: possessing the property that every coset produced by operating on the left by a given element is equal to the coset produced by operating on the right by the same element
7
: relating to, involving, or being a normal curve or normal distribution
***
I find it difficult to align myself with your assertions.
Why does calmness carry a desirable connotation while excitement does not? Without excitement, in a broader sense, there is no procreation. I assume you would agree that procreation is a normal and positive phenomenon in the observable world.😁
Harmony and disharmony? Is there a mathematical formula that can indisputably determine disharmony?
Indian classical and spiritual music is full of irregular rhythms, so by your logic, is it also unnatural? Are Ravi Shankar and Zakir Hussain creating abnormal music?
And why is catharsis considered desirable and normal?
For sure, but I don't really do math, so I can't help you much on that front... 🙂 Harmony is fundamentally rooted in mathematics. Even though water or plants don't follow mathematical formulas, they still respond to harmonics—to what is naturally resonant. The entire universe operates on this principle of synchronicity, a sort of universal harmony. You can see this clearly in the scores of Bach and others, but even someone without a musical background could pick up on it if they were just a bit more sensitive... It shows up in humans too, through all our physiological cycles. Think about how biological rhythms align, like how menstrual cycles have historically been linked to the phases of the moon. We’ve drifted away from those natural patterns lately, but you can still see the traces of it. Practically the whole ecosystem, everything known and unknown in the cosmos, is interconnected in complex ways. I can't think of specific examples right this second, but it's all there. People are connected to one another in ways we don't fully grasp, and our thoughts have a direct impact on health and the well-being of the planet itself...
ironharbor8 said:@ Morgan Brown5
Which of these Merriam-Webster definitions for "normal" are we actually discussing here?
1
: perpendicular; specifically: perpendicular to a tangent at a point of tangency
2
a : in accordance with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle
b : conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern
3
: occurring naturally
4
a : relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development
b : free from mental disorder: sane
5
a regarding a solution: having a concentration of one gram equivalent of solute per liter
b : containing neither basic hydroxyl nor acid hydrogen
c : not associated
d : having a straight-chain structure
6
of a subgroup: possessing the property that every coset produced by operating on the left by a given element is equal to the coset produced by operating on the right by the same element
7
: relating to, involving, or being a normal curve or normal distribution
***
I find it difficult to align myself with your assertions.
Why does calmness carry a desirable connotation while excitement does not? Without excitement, in a broader sense, there is no procreation. I assume you would agree that procreation is a normal and positive phenomenon in the observable world.😁
Harmony and disharmony? Is there a mathematical formula that can indisputably determine disharmony?
Indian classical and spiritual music is full of irregular rhythms, so by your logic, is it also unnatural? Are Ravi Shankar and Zakir Hussain creating abnormal music?
And why is catharsis considered desirable and normal?
I agree, and I keep coming back to this idea... my best litmus test is how something reacts when it’s part of a whole without losing its essence. Take water, for instance—how it crystallizes and stuff like that. Even if we’re talking about Sufi or Vedantic singers, it doesn't necessarily mean the instrumentation itself carries the weight. The point is that the messages in spiritual music are healing; after all, spiritual music is often cited as the peak of expression during the Classical and Romantic eras. It really comes down to the vibrations of those musical accompaniments and whether they have a positive impact, especially since modern interpretations can vary wildly even with traditional pieces. But anyway, you're questioning me like I'm some kind of expert, rather than just offering my usual thoughts... 😁
I'm no expert, and I never will be. I'm just trying to wrap my head around what this actually means and why. But honestly, there are certain guidelines here. The whole thing with water tells me a lot, much like those ideas from Plato or even Aristotle regarding catharsis.
ironharbor8 said:@ Morgan Brown5
Which of these Merriam-Webster definitions for "normal" are we actually discussing here?
1
: perpendicular; specifically: perpendicular to a tangent at a point of tangency
2
a : in accordance with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle
b : conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern
3
: occurring naturally
4
a : relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development
b : free from mental disorder: sane
5
a regarding a solution: having a concentration of one gram equivalent of solute per liter
b : containing neither basic hydroxyl nor acid hydrogen
c : not associated
d : having a straight-chain structure
6
of a subgroup: possessing the property that every coset produced by operating on the left by a given element is equal to the coset produced by operating on the right by the same element
7
: relating to, involving, or being a normal curve or normal distribution
***
I find it difficult to align myself with your assertions.
Why does calmness carry a desirable connotation while excitement does not? Without excitement, in a broader sense, there is no procreation. I assume you would agree that procreation is a normal and positive phenomenon in the observable world.😁
Harmony and disharmony? Is there a mathematical formula that can indisputably determine disharmony?
Indian classical and spiritual music is full of irregular rhythms, so by your logic, is it also unnatural? Are Ravi Shankar and Zakir Hussain creating abnormal music?
And why is catharsis considered desirable and normal?
No one is claiming it's inherently "desirable," but look at Aristotle. Despite how radical Plato was being with his arguments for restricting art and other forms of expression—basically wanting to ban anything that provokes too much emotion—Aristotle offered an explanation for the cathartic experience of, say, a drama. Plato would have simply banned such plays because he thought they triggered negative thoughts through internal psychological struggle and projection. But Aristotle points to that almost deeply experiential, educational moment that comes from experiencing catharsis. Back then, performances were experienced on a different level—something more mythic and psychologically profound. To give you a bit of a laugh... it's like that story about when a movie projector was first brought to a small town in the Midwest. Right at the start of the film, during a scene where a train is filmed heading straight toward the camera, the entire theater emptied out. Kids were running for their lives because they genuinely thought the train was coming right at them. 😁