Posts by ruggedjackal46

The death toll in the USA is ten times higher than what we're seeing in China. What kind of leadership does that even suggest?

Sweden has a death count roughly equal to our current infection numbers. Look, countries like Sweden or Germany can afford to take those kinds of risks because they have robust healthcare systems capable of absorbing a massive surge in patients. Our healthcare system is already straining at the seams; they're turning away people who don't even have Coronavirus just to keep up. What on earth would happen if we had 20,000 active cases instead of 2,000?

Honestly, this whole situation is a tectonic disaster. It’s a complete wreck for the economy, and it’s just as messy for politics, especially now that the crisis management team has basically become an unquestionable authority. No matter how you slice it, it's a total mess.

restlesssurfer97 said:Honestly, I feel like if the US saw a death rate that high among those infected, it would probably just be because our healthcare system is struggling so much right now.

I mean, look, we all know why Italy is seeing such massive numbers, and I haven't really dug into the data on Sweden yet, but don't even get me started on Belgium—it’s like, what is even happening over there lately? 🤷

It seems to me that the sudden surge in patients caused total chaos in Sweden. And hey, maybe their healthcare system isn't all that amazing either, you know? But I honestly don't know; I can't keep up with Swedish media or know exactly what they're reporting on the matter. Regardless, I don't think America could handle a sudden spike of several thousand cases any better.

restlesssurfer97 said:That whole "you think" thing you're doing really reminds me of that super annoying "sooo, what u saying is..." trope people use when they're trying too hard.🤣

I don't catch the reference, but fine, I'll stop nitpicking too. 🤣

ZZ is holding a perfectly reasonable position here; he definitely showed restlesssurfer97 who's boss, and he’s probably passing the time during this break by binge-watching Messi's highlight reels. At this rate, we’ll soon have to organize a massive petition to Anderlon to finally let him change his handle from brightpilot6 to Xavi Hernandez ☕

restlesssurfer97 said:Here is the actual breakdown for hospital beds:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...tistics_-_beds

America has 350, while Sweden has 203 per 100,000 people.
And honestly, if they actually counted those makeshift spots over at the Arena, the numbers would be even wilder. ☕

Do you honestly think hospital bed capacity is the ultimate metric for healthcare quality? Is Bulgaria supposed to be the gold standard for medicine in Europe now?

restlesssurfer97 said:No, look, I’ll admit I phrased that poorly, because the fact that Sweden has such a massive death rate among those who actually tested positive is just impossible to ignore.

If they were running an incredibly low number of tests, then sure, I could explain it that way, but this just feels off, you know? And honestly, it doesn't exactly make their healthcare system look great—not that I'm pointing fingers at them specifically—but I'm pretty certain if something like this happened here in the States, everyone would just blame it on our healthcare system being broken.

Do you really think the US would have a lower mortality rate if we had an equivalent number of cases?

restlesssurfer97 said:Maybe it’s down to different healthcare setups and staffing levels? On one chart, America is trailing behind, but on another, we're right at the top, and that's specifically regarding higher-level nurses and general staff. It's wild that you didn't pick up on how much that matters.

Were you expecting a massive gap? Well, that’s pretty funny considering you were insisting the American healthcare capacity was way bigger than Sweden's 😕

No, I never actually said that, you were the one claiming Sweden had way more capacity than America, and I just pointed out that that famous table—which I feel like I've mentioned so many times now that I should probably just Google it again—actually shows that Sweden doesn't really have huge hospital capacities, far from it.

So why did they lose 2,000 people instead of just 50? Maybe that’s more about how they handled the contagion rather than the actual capacity of the medical system? Come on, restlesssurfer97 🤦

Oh, really?

So what you're saying is their whole strategy was basically to just not worry about people getting sick and just let them die?

How do you manage to talk yourself into being wrong twice in under three hours?

Their approach might eventually lead to more infections as a side effect, sure, but you're trying to argue that the high death rate among those infected is a direct result of their policy. How does that work? Are they just letting people die?

America is at the top of a chart that’s missing half the countries, including Sweden, which is who we’re even comparing ourselves to here.😕

No, I wasn't making any claims. You were the one insisting Sweden has way more capacity than America, and I just pointed out that the "famous" table—which I’ve mentioned so many times now I really should just Google it—actually shows that Sweden doesn't have particularly large hospital capacities at all. In fact, quite the opposite.

Look, please, just go ahead and Google it. You're nitpicking me for only including two charts, yet you're talking about this one specific table as if it’s some absolute, divine truth.🤣

Their approach might eventually result in a higher number of infections, but you're claiming that the high percentage of deaths among those infected is a direct result of their strategy. How does that work? Are they just letting people die?

Well, a higher number of infections inevitably leads to a higher number of deaths, for heaven's sake.😕

It doesn't lead to a higher *percentage*, which is what you've just manufactured out of thin air; it leads to a higher raw number.

🤦

restlesssurfer97 said:You totally missed the part where most of these are nurses, and there’s actually another chart out there showing that nurses in America hover around nearly 500 per 100,000 people, but since Sweden isn't even on that particular graph, you obviously didn't include it. 🙂

It doesn't really matter though, because even if they have more medical staff, their capacity is lower, so I still don't see where the advantage is supposed to be. I was expecting a way bigger gap than this.

I mean, imagine if we had 2,000 deaths here while they only had 50; that would be the ultimate, permanent proof that their healthcare system is lightyears ahead of ours.

We’re comparing America and Sweden. What good is a graph to me if it doesn't include Sweden? 😕

You were expecting a much bigger difference? Well, that's funny, considering you were just arguing that American healthcare has better capacity than the Swedish system. 😕

And why did they have 2,000 deaths instead of 50? Maybe it has something to do with how they handled the outbreak itself, rather than the actual capacity of the healthcare system? Honestly, restlesssurfer97, get real. 🤦

brightpilot6 said:So, your alternative is essentially what the British and Americans tried before they panicked and backed off once the situation actually hit the fans?

If it means a Real Madrid fan gets hit by the fallout, then honestly, count me in. 😳

urbanhawk17 said:Well, damn.

I think Šprajc is a populist too—he really gets under my skin—but in this specific instance, at least from where I'm sitting, he's right. And yeah, he'd probably sound different if the circumstances were different.

I also agree with Mamić when he says someone would sell their own mother for a paycheck. Just because he's a criminal doesn't mean I have to swallow everything he says.

When it comes to the Coronavirus, we're split into two camps: for and against. That isn't going to change. I can understand why ZZ or you or ruggedjackal46 feel the way you do, but I just don't agree with you.

Honestly, I'm not even going to argue. We've all picked our sides, everyone is digging their heels in, and nobody is willing to budge an inch. Except for Elizabeth Mendoza—welcome to the party.

LP,
papi (staying calm)

Here I am, caught in the middle of a losing battle. On one side, I’m constantly arguing with those of you who think any precautions at all are overkill, and then I hop onto other social media platforms only to face the crowd insisting we should all be locked indoors until next year. It’s exhausting. Honestly, someone just hand me a mask so I can finally get some peace and quiet. 🤣

restlesssurfer97 said:Why are you playing games with the bed counts at the Arena? We both know those numbers don't count.
Do you actually have any data showing that Swedes have more medical staff than Americans?
Of course you don't, you're just talking in circles.

The pay is better there, and yeah, some medical staff emigrated from America, but that’s really all you’re offering to support the claim that Sweden has a higher healthcare capacity for fighting Coronavirus than America.

On the flip side, America has a higher number of available beds per capita and more intensive care units. An ICU implies all the equipment and the staff included, if my logic isn't totally off, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. And I'm pretty sure the number of ventilators was higher too, but whatever...

Bottom line is, since you were so confident asserting that Sweden has greater healthcare capacities than America for tackling Coronavirus, it would be pretty fair to back that up with something real.
Otherwise, it just sounds like another empty cliché. Because if you actually backed it up with some hard data and figures, then I could actually accept it as a fact and maybe use it in a debate tomorrow, but like this? It's useless. Man.

You completely missed the point regarding the Arena; give it another shot.

Since you were so confident in claiming that Sweden has greater healthcare capacity than America for dealing with Coronavirus, it would be nice if you actually backed that up with something substantial.
Otherwise, it just sounds like another empty cliché. If you provide actual data and figures, I can actually accept it as a fact and use it in a debate tomorrow. But like this? It's useless. Honestly.

Fine:

Source: link

These numbers are from 2016, but I doubt they've shifted drastically in a way that favors America. It doesn't list salaries or the number of staff who left the country, but I think it's indicative enough.

restlesssurfer97 said:That’s only an issue if you honestly believe that a paycheck is the single most important metric for measuring how much capacity a healthcare system actually has.

Because we’re talking about the actual capacity of the healthcare system here, right?

If you have a relatively low number of medical professionals, low wages, and a high migration rate, it shows you simply don't have enough qualified staff to actually care for patients. To me, that seems to be the crux of the issue here: having competent medical personnel who know how to handle various complex cases. You can cram 1,000 beds into an Arena overnight, sure, but you can't just magically inject 1,000 skilled doctors into the system by tomorrow morning.

And when our best doctors and nurses are heading off to Austria, Germany, or even Sweden, it speaks volumes. It doesn't just mean we're losing our top talent; it means there are very real, very logical reasons why they're leaving.

restlesssurfer97 said:You can basically order ICU units from Ikee, then just throw in some ventilators for good measure. Maybe they even have a "buy two ICU beds, get one ventilator free" deal running? If so, ship them over immediately.

SS fixed everything 🙏🙏🙏

Maybe it would actually be more useful to look at the number of medical staff in certain countries, what their average salary looks like, and how many healthcare workers have migrated to other nations. That probably gives a much more realistic picture of actual healthcare capacity.

Yeah, maybe if you spent a little more time actually studying the subject, you might end up with an argument that actually holds water.

So, what, I’m supposed to go research whether Swedish doctors pull in higher salaries than American ones, or if medical professionals are fleeing the US at a faster rate than they are from Sweden? 😍

Anthony Wright30 said:If the system is creaking now, it will likely collapse entirely in a few years, simply because I wonder where the funding for healthcare is actually going to come from.

Just take it from the church, and there's your funding right there. ☕

Amanda Evans2 said:Once this crisis blows over, we’re going right back to business as usual...

But where exactly is this seal?

Elizabeth Mendoza said:How did Jandroković take off so fast 🤣

Gazela 🙏

Jandroković is basically a masterclass in survival. He senses a political earthquake coming and retreats to safety weeks before any other GOP supporter even realizes the ground is shaking.

urbanhawk17 said:https://www.manpowergroup.com/

And then you have these chauvinists 🙏

saying that Manpower 🤮

ManpowerGroup? Sounds like some weirdly aggressive corporate nonsense to me. ☕

The Johnny Depp fan club

restlesssurfer97 said:Just look at that headline: Locked in a house with your own abusers.

I wonder what Justin would say about a title like that?

What, would you prefer "Trapped in the house with your abusers"?

brightpilot6 said:Why have the VB16 students been missing from their TV classes for an entire week now?

They even received remote controls complete with batteries on ++ 😂

Vrm13 watches the TV lessons and just thinks, "Good grief, they've actually got VAR in schools now! 🙂 "

😂

brightpilot6 said:What’s the standard for social distancing at VB16?

One station 😂

restlesssurfer97 said:So this little kid comes up to me and asks why Lionel Messi is coughing, like he’s worried it might be COVID or something, and I'm just sitting there thinking about how much kids overthink everything, but then my mom just looks at him and says, "Don't worry, it's not COVID, he's just coughing from all those hormones."

🤦

Looks like we in VB will have to organize online classes again for the young Madridistas 🙄 Except in this school, shoving students around is allowed—actually, it's practically mandatory.☕