coastalangler16 said:@mark my words
Like I said before, people tie the whole idea of being a fan too closely to this ultra mentality. Around here—and even in the stands—you’ve got people who are pretty much swallowed up by it. Most aren't, though. You claim a fan doesn't need to be able to name a single player on the Los Angeles Dodgers roster. Well, if someone can't know anything about the club, are they even a fan? At that point, you might as well be rooting for any random team like some kind of robot... besides that, I'm pretty convinced the college students who founded the Raiders didn't say, "Hey, let's get rowdy just to cause chaos in the streets and act like we own the place," but rather that they did it out of love for the Dodgers, wanting to cheer their club wherever they played and elevating the very concept of fandom by bringing together the most loyal folks. The goal wasn't street fights or some hooligan scheme. I won't point fingers at anyone living that life 24/7, unlike those who are less intense or just move in different circles, because you need everyone in the stands. You need the crew for the streets, for the flares, for the choreographies, for the chanting, for setting the atmosphere, etc. You say a person realizes early on how important being an ultra is, but for me, the definition of the Raiders isn't "hardcore ultra"—it's the combination of everything I just mentioned. A fan isn't necessarily an ultra. If those who are ultras immediately distance themselves from those who aren't, that's where the rift happens, and what we actually need is unity... I just want people to stop screwing with each other and instead give it their all so we don't stagnate during times of change like this. Whether someone is for the changes or against them doesn't matter much now; they happened, and the stands have to move forward instead of staying silent and laughing at the group's attempts to engage the rest of us... I'm fed up with this whole mess, but I hope I managed to explain at least a third of my opinion clearly enough...
Look, don't take this the wrong way, but with attitudes like yours, you don't really have anything to do with the Raiders. I respect you for who you are, and you wrote honestly what you think, but based on this, you're a classic Benjamin Cruz29. Don't go thinking you've missed out on anything just because you aren't part of the core group—the actual Raiders—which, let's be real, is full of jerks, cowards, trash, and all sorts of nonsense. Just keep cheering for the Dodgers and stay happy. It's not your fault you think this way; you just do, just like I'll never be a biker or a skater.
The unique problem with the Raiders is that a lot of people with a mindset similar to yours call themselves Raiders.
A famous fan once dropped a legendary line: "We make up 80% of the group, and the rest of these guys pretending to be fans are just a bunch of punks."
If he said that today, he'd probably say "We're 20% of the group," which pretty much describes the North Stand and the fans nowadays.
It's a classic case of the operation succeeding but the patient dying. The group still exists, but it has nothing to do with what it used to be.
I've been messing around with these posts for a long time just because I care, and we'll see how much longer that lasts—probably not much. I'm likely the last one losing hope, but even hope runs dry eventually. This year, I've already pulled away from the stands entirely, and soon I might stop following what happens with the Raiders altogether. It honestly hurts my soul to see what represents the Raiders today. People from my generation—from all the old groups, the die-hards and the legends—can easily sit on the sidelines, smoke a cigarette, and be perfectly fine knowing their legacy continued the right way. But when I look around, I feel like we have this massive, retarded, lukewarm child that's almost beyond saving. So the question remains: how much longer is it worth fighting for this kid while watching it suffer under pressure from all sides, or should I just admit defeat, acknowledge it's irreparable, and start over from scratch? Let the kid be a disaster then.
The Raiders have just been dealing with this massive identity crisis for the last 20 years—it’s honestly pathetic. They can't figure out who they actually are anymore. You've got the real ones—the people who actually get it, the true die-hards—and then you've got everyone else... the casuals. Both sides have been stretching the group thin for two decades now. Back in the early nineties, things stopped being pure, and this other influence started creeping in, and we're still feeling it today. The only question left is which side is going to win out. We're probably the only group in the entire world with a mess like this, and frankly, there isn't room for both types in the same house.
The Bulls are always the Bulls, the Yankees are always the Yankees, the Red Sox are always the Red Sox... the core stays the same. A Bull was a Bull in '86 and '96, and they're a Bull today—the generations change and the gear changes, sure, but the essence doesn't. But the Raiders? They were one thing for about ten years in the eighties, then spent the nineties as a bunch of rowdy amateurs and casuals, and then the two-thousands hit and it became this messy mix of both. It’s an endless internal conflict that just can't go on forever.
The Raiders weren't founded by some bunch of college kids from the coast like you're suggesting. This whole saga started in the early eighties, and we know the exact names and nicknames of the guys who kicked it all off—Kula, Uso, Prle, Maslo, Vele B., and the rest. It’s crystal clear what the Raiders used to be, and what we have now has absolutely nothing to do with those roots. To be blunt, you and a whole crowd of people—maybe even most of you now—are just interlopers in this story. Short and sweet. You might be the majority now, I wouldn't be surprised, but we'll see how this all plays out.
Yesterday, a guy with the handle mmw—who sits on the complete opposite side of the stadium—was in here trying to explain things that are true for every single fan section in every major sport. A fan recognizes a fan, just like a thief knows a thief or a junkie knows a junkie. It’s basic human nature. It's just that nobody seems to have as much drama over it as the Raiders do.
And for the record: when I first started heading to games and traveling for away matches back in the old days, THE RAIDERS WERE THE EMBODIMENT OF MIAMI BAD BOYS. We were 100% pure supporters, the gold standard, the strongest group in the entire country—which, let's face it, is five times larger than any other market. We were recognized and respected all across the US. About 90% of the respect we still manage to command comes from that era. This group basically invented modern fandom in this part of the world.
-So you guys just sit there and think about what you actually are...