Posts by Andrew Doyle

Timothy Cruz6 said:Thanks for the support 🙂

Regardless, I’d love to hear from anyone who has been through something similar—specifically that moment when you have to admit to yourself that you're the one who messed everything up 😉 For me, that was the hardest part: admitting fault (though, honestly, my ego made swallowing that pill nearly impossible)

To be perfectly honest, I didn't find it that difficult to admit when I was in the wrong. In fact, I make it a point to be the first person to step up and say I messed up in almost any situation—and even if I don't say it out loud, I definitely mean it. I’m currently in psychotherapy, where I’m basically learning how much I’ve been getting everything wrong and why. I just hope that one day I can finally feel "normal." My decision to seek help was forced by a perfect storm of circumstances hitting all at once: fears about serious health issues, being physically and mentally drained, and those moments where I practically lose control in front of my family. I could also—even if it was incredibly painful—start to realize that my partner and everyone else could realistically walk away from me. But I have a little four-year-old right by my side, and to that child, I am the most important person in the entire world. So, that little kid is the main reason I sought help. I refuse to screw them over.

swiftcanyon64 said:Just picture this scenario! A friend of mine has a potential employer asking for a drug test clearance.😕 I did some digging online, but I honestly can't find anything about this specific requirement being standard practice.🤷 But here’s the kicker: if we're talking about "drugs," does that technically include psychiatric medications? Does a person suddenly become a "drug addict" just because they happen to be on antidepressants??😕

I’m genuinely floored by this. It’s absolutely ridiculous!

I honestly don't see how antidepressants have anything to do with illegal drugs. When someone undergoes a drug screen, the expectation is that they are looking for THC, heroin, and things of that nature—not "drugs" in the broad, clinical sense that would implicate every single prescription medication out there.😕

shadowpilot8 said:Go ahead and laugh. I thought the same thing, and now I’m stuck paying a fine for using an image from the internet without permission.😁

So, did you just swipe some absolute masterpiece?😁

Fantastic. Just great. Now I’ve gone and become an even heavier smoker than I already was.😍

Rebecca Scott3 said:redharbor9... it’s pretty obvious that the concept of an "error" just doesn't exist in your world of psychotherapy. You don't seem to believe in any actual criteria, and honestly, that says everything I need to know. When you look at it that way, there aren't even any good or bad approaches left—no real methods, no real therapists. It all just boils down to a "hey, come see me" vibe, as long as you're willing to open your wallet because you managed to walk across a stage with a degree.

How is a psychotherapist supposed to know if an abusive husband is going to turn violent again once the wife goes back home? It feels impossible. You have this woman in therapy, and then her psychologist suggests she should reconcile with him—basically telling her to try and start over under these new "conditions" he’s supposedly created through his charm. How could anyone possibly predict that this man is just going to beat her again shortly after? To me, it seems completely unpredictable. It's like trying to guess when a storm is going to hit when you can't even see the clouds forming.
....if you just went around asking half the people living on her block..... they’d tell you straight up that talking to that guy is a lost cause since his best arguments always backfire.....
....(and I know all this because that woman walked me through her entire session with the therapist....... and then, out of nowhere, right after that whole mess, the therapist just completely cut her off....... talk about a miracle, right? He probably got pissed because she didn't follow his little playbook to the letter...... but honestly, the main instruction wasn't even the point......

suicide is such a heavy thing for any parent to carry ....and the responsibility of a psychologist is huge too...... because if we don't actually know what we're doing, we're just passing the kid off to a psychiatrist..... or checking them into a hospital..... notifying the parents..... and so on....
....but no...... it's always "I know everything and I can handle it" ....while leaving everyone else to deal with the fallout.....
look, I know that kids ...especially teens... take their own lives, and preventing it is incredibly hard, but there are specific things that absolutely have to be done to try and lower those odds even a little bit.....

because if a psychologist... or a psychiatrist.... can't actually make a difference, then at the very least they should tell the parents what kind of direction the child is heading in..... they need to work as a team with the family instead of leaving parents totally in the dark about what's going on with their kid.... or worse, having no clue the kid is even seeing a school counselor because they think since the kid is over 16, it's all "private business" now.....

so, is your social circle not "normal"?
well, what exactly counts as normal?
where do you even find a "normal" society these days?

about organizing things better....
....my suggestion was basically that therapists should be more transparent about themselves.... like, what are they actually specialized in, do they hold old-school patriarchal views, or are they actually okay with the LGBTQ+ community or do they still view it as some kind of disorder.....
they should just state clearly and loudly which type of client they are actually equipped to work with.....
....cultural clichés pop up all the time...... because we say one thing while implying something completely different under the surface...... misunderstandings happen constantly, and it's just part of the problem... etc...

Regarding a therapist reacting this way, I would argue they haven't properly completed their training, nor are they actually prepared to practice independently. I don't know what the standards are where you're from, but here in the States, the requirements are incredibly rigorous. Specifically, those aiming to become certified psychoanalysts generally need a medical degree first. It used to be that people with various advanced degrees—like psychologists or specialized educators—could pursue this path, but nowadays, they are largely restricted to just an introductory year. The full track is reserved almost exclusively for those with MDs. Even then, that education lasts five grueling years, and finishing it doesn't automatically mean you're ready to sit across from a patient alone. You still have to undergo your own intensive therapy and constant supervision, which can drag on for several more years. This therapist in your example was obviously nowhere near ready for independent practice.

Rebecca Scott3 said:...look, I'm definitely no expert here... so I don't really get what "supervision" actually entails in this context... is it just someone keeping an eye on the therapy sessions?
....and I can't help but wonder how that whole setup works... who is this supervisor person anyway? Like, is it someone appointed by the government, or the hospital, or some other agency???

It is essentially someone who "oversees" the therapist.🙂
Look, I’m not an expert either, so if you want a granular, technical breakdown, you should ask a professional. But here is how I see it from my perspective. Therapists are human beings, plain and simple. Just because they were required to undergo their own therapy during their training doesn't mean they magically resolved every single issue they'll ever face in their lifetime. During the therapeutic process, a massive amount happens—not just for the patient, but for the therapist as well. They are constantly processing their own emotions; all those stories and experiences hit them too, and they have to figure out how to manage that weight. And let’s be honest, that is a massive undertaking. To be truly effective at their jobs, they need someone to work through those things with—someone to "supervise" them. That is where supervisors come in.

And don't go thinking these supervisors are somehow exempt from life's struggles. No matter how much insight they possess, they still run headfirst into things that are incredibly difficult to handle. Their entire career is basically one long continuous project of working on themselves so they can better help others.

In this profession, the "student" often becomes the teacher. Without a specific patient with a specific personality type, a therapist might never uncover certain parts of themselves. So, as much as clients learn about themselves during therapy, the therapists are learning right alongside them.

Rebecca Scott3 said:....When I say that a client deserves to know certain things about their therapist, I’m not suggesting they should go on some interrogation mission to dig up private details.... what I mean is that this kind of information should be legally required and fully transparent. A person has a right to know exactly who is providing their care....
.....
....I've personally heard about instances where a psychologist grills a client about their ethnic background..... or even cases where a practitioner holds deep-seated prejudices against certain nationalities in their private life..... do you honestly believe someone like that can remain completely impartial and provide professional, unbiased support?
.....
....And think about this: do we really believe that people who graduated from religious universities and hold strict religious views—views that might label homosexuality as a sin—can truly offer sincere empathy to an LGBTQ+ individual?.....
...Or take a believer who sees women as being inherently submissive to their husbands, someone who thinks a woman should always prioritize her husband's interests over her own.... how is a therapist with those convictions supposed to understand a woman struggling with a marriage where she refuses to be patriarchal, or one who has chosen to leave such a marriage behind?.....
.....
....I'm especially curious about your thoughts on whether a client has a right to know if their therapist is superstitious..... you know, someone who believes in ghosts, bad karma, or all that stuff.....
....

I have to admit, I am absolutely floored by these kinds of proposals. So, you are actually suggesting that a psychotherapist should be required to disclose their own psychotherapy history, their political leanings, or their religious beliefs—and that this should be codified into law so potential patients can access it? Frankly, I find this idea terrifying. From a moral and ethical standpoint, not to mention the practical reality, this is a direct assault on the sanctity of the therapeutic relationship.

Rebecca Scott3 said:....When I say that a client deserves to know certain things about their therapist, I’m not suggesting they should go on some interrogation mission to dig up private details.... what I mean is that this kind of information should be legally required and fully transparent. A person has a right to know exactly who is providing their care....
.....
....I've personally heard about instances where a psychologist grills a client about their ethnic background..... or even cases where a practitioner holds deep-seated prejudices against certain nationalities in their private life..... do you honestly believe someone like that can remain completely impartial and provide professional, unbiased support?
.....
....And think about this: do we really believe that people who graduated from religious universities and hold strict religious views—views that might label homosexuality as a sin—can truly offer sincere empathy to an LGBTQ+ individual?.....
...Or take a believer who sees women as being inherently submissive to their husbands, someone who thinks a woman should always prioritize her husband's interests over her own.... how is a therapist with those convictions supposed to understand a woman struggling with a marriage where she refuses to be patriarchal, or one who has chosen to leave such a marriage behind?.....
.....
....I'm especially curious about your thoughts on whether a client has a right to know if their therapist is superstitious..... you know, someone who believes in ghosts, bad karma, or all that stuff.....
....

Yes, I firmly believe it is their fundamental job to act with total impartiality and professionalism. If a practitioner lacks the capacity for that, or if they harbor doubts about their own ability to remain objective, then in my view, the only logical course of action is for that individual to step down from their position or, depending on the specific circumstances, refer the client to another therapist. The latter happens quite frequently. For instance, it is not uncommon for romantic or physical attraction to develop between a patient and a therapist; in such cases, attempting to continue therapy would be incredibly difficult. Therefore, it is a sign of maturity and professional integrity when a therapist decides to hand a patient over to a colleague if they feel those feelings will impede the healing process.

Rebecca Scott3 said:....morning everyone.....you all were busy typing while I was catching some Z's.......the world keeps spinning, doesn't it?....

...most people just assume that a therapist should be this perfectly open-minded vessel where their own personal beliefs don't bleed into the session.....but honestly.....from what I've seen in my own life.....that isn't always the reality. Not everyone walking into a clinic is a saint with an unbiased mind. No matter how hard someone tries to shove their personal biases, their little paranoias, or their deep-seated fears into a box under the bed.....it’s impossible. You can try to suppress it, sure.....but eventually, those things are going to float right back to the surface....

...so, I actually think it would be incredibly helpful if clients had the right to know even the most basic stuff about their therapist beforehand.....things like....did they go to a religious college or a seminary? (like a Catholic or Jewish institution)....
....do they hold really traditional, patriarchal views on family and roles?....
....are they registered members of a specific political party?....
....have they ever been in therapy themselves, and if so, what was it for? (honestly, that could be a huge asset or a major red flag, depending on the person)....
....are they actually comfortable discussing topics like homosexuality?....
......and what kind of client profile do they actually gravitate toward? (Are they specialists in depression, PTSD, anxiety, social skills, etc.)?....
.....
....at the end of the day....don't you think a person has every right to know who the individual is that they're supposed to trust with their mental health?....

As a patient, this idea of things "floating to the surface" doesn't bother me one bit, provided that those moments are properly worked through during supervision.
Furthermore, as a client, I couldn't care less about the laundry list of details you mention later—whether she belongs to a specific political party, why she’s seeking therapy, and so on. In fact, I believe knowing those things would actually hinder my own progress, because it would trigger all sorts of psychological processes, like projections, that we'd just have to spend more time untangling later.

My therapist is meant to be a "blank slate." It’s my job to "color" her over time. Any attempt on her part to add color prematurely is completely unnecessary to me. In fact, she once hinted at certain life convictions she holds, and even though I share similar beliefs, I found it incredibly unwelcome to have that territory explored. For some reason, it’s much easier for me if those things remain unaddressed, and I made sure to let her know that. At least, that's how it stands for now. I’ve heard plenty of stories about clients being intensely curious about their therapists, but I haven't hit that stage yet.

Rebecca Scott3 said:....morning everyone.....you all were busy typing while I was catching some Z's.......the world keeps spinning, doesn't it?....

...most people just assume that a therapist should be this perfectly open-minded vessel where their own personal beliefs don't bleed into the session.....but honestly.....from what I've seen in my own life.....that isn't always the reality. Not everyone walking into a clinic is a saint with an unbiased mind. No matter how hard someone tries to shove their personal biases, their little paranoias, or their deep-seated fears into a box under the bed.....it’s impossible. You can try to suppress it, sure.....but eventually, those things are going to float right back to the surface....

...so, I actually think it would be incredibly helpful if clients had the right to know even the most basic stuff about their therapist beforehand.....things like....did they go to a religious college or a seminary? (like a Catholic or Jewish institution)....
....do they hold really traditional, patriarchal views on family and roles?....
....are they registered members of a specific political party?....
....have they ever been in therapy themselves, and if so, what was it for? (honestly, that could be a huge asset or a major red flag, depending on the person)....
....are they actually comfortable discussing topics like homosexuality?....
......and what kind of client profile do they actually gravitate toward? (Are they specialists in depression, PTSD, anxiety, social skills, etc.)?....
.....
....at the end of the day....don't you think a person has every right to know who the individual is that they're supposed to trust with their mental health?....

A psychiatrist-psychotherapist who is schizophrenic? I have honestly never heard of such a thing, and frankly, I highly doubt someone suffering from psychosis would ever pass the screening to become a therapist. Correct me if I'm wrong.
And personally, I see absolutely zero connection between a schizophrenic therapist and a gay gynecologist, even in the broadest possible context of this discussion.

Kyle Lee7 said:While completing a training program doesn't necessarily guarantee a therapist has done their own inner work, failing to go through the process means they haven't even tried.☕
Personally, I wouldn't dream of sitting down for a session with anyone claiming they can help me if they haven't taken the time to work on themselves first. Beyond that, I truly believe that people shouldn't—and likely aren't capable of—practicing psychotherapy before reaching a certain level of maturity.

Finally, I have to agree with Dennis Jackson38: the ability and willingness to accept a client as a fellow human being—regardless of their religious views, sexual orientation, or any other inclinations that might clash with the therapist's own—is the absolute *conditio sine qua non* for anyone calling themselves a psychotherapist. Anything less than that is simply unacceptable and unprofessional.

Judgment isn't a therapeutic tool, at least not in the specific schools of thought I've studied.

Absolutely.🙂

I actually know a neuropsychiatrist who had to grind for years before he was finally allowed to practice as a psychotherapist. It wasn't even a choice; his supervisors simply wouldn't clear him because they didn't believe he was ready. Even after completing a massive, multi-year therapeutic process himself to pass that final "competency test," the point remained: no amount of prior education, specialization, money, or professional reputation matters if you haven't done the internal work. They wouldn't let him touch the profession until he was truly prepared.

placidwolf27 said:There was a period when I used to see this psychiatrist whose primary therapeutic technique involved pulling out an acoustic guitar at some point and insisting that I sing along while he played

The first time it happened, I actually found it amusing—I figured it was some unconventional diagnostic tool, perhaps testing my emotional response or something similar... however, it turned out to be his standard routine. It was quite an exhausting ordeal; the man simply wouldn't relent, and I eventually realized he does this to everyone—literally, it's just his "method"

I won't mention his name, nor will I say which hospital or clinic he’s affiliated with in the States

His go-to response whenever I tried to describe the various struggles and mental states I was navigating was some tired variation of the phrase—everything will fall into place once you find love...

Frankly, I have no idea what his actual professional philosophy is

🤣

Is this some kind of musical therapy?
Just hippie nonsense? Love, music, love—give me a break.😁

fadedbear92 said:Here’s a damn good practical example: harvesting grapes—for me, it’s just a massive crowd of people laughing incessantly, whether there’s a reason for it or not. Mostly it's the former; they're loud, acting like they're having the time of their lives (usually fueled by booze), gossiping, prying, and commenting on everything... it’s incredibly stressful for me. Plus, I feel this crushing guilt toward my parents if I don't show up—even though they can handle the work without me—because then the guilt trips start, especially from my dad, who can be brutal, saying things like: "I guess you'll finally visit us when we're in the grave."
Honestly, I am so over these internal battles about what I should or shouldn't do—it's pure s t r e s s!!!

But can't you just set a boundary there?
I mean, taking a firm stance like, "This is where I stand on this, and I would appreciate it if you respected that."

For instance, yesterday I was sent to pick up my mother's belongings from her old place. The car was packed to the brim—bags and boxes everywhere. Once I finally unloaded everything, I was apparently expected to sift through it all right then and there, deciding what to keep and what to toss or donate. They expected me to just handle it, because at the end of the day, all those things have to be dealt with eventually.

And I simply could not do it.
First, I just "froze up"—that's my defense mechanism when I'm overwhelmed—and they asked me what was wrong since I wasn't showing any outward emotion. It would have been convenient if I had just burst into tears or complained, but I couldn't cry. Instead, I felt a wave of anger and genuine nausea just looking at her things. It actually irritated me that they were pushing this on me.
In the end, I was blunt with them about how I felt—absolutely revolted and nauseous. Even if they didn't quite grasp why I was acting that way, I feel bad, but I refuse to act against my own nature just because a situation is emotionally heavy. Essentially, they need to deal with my decision and my reaction however they see fit. I refuse to betray myself just to meet their expectations of how I "should" behave. That expectation is exactly what creates the stress for me. So, I am setting a boundary. When (and if) I am ready, I will do what they expect, but not a moment before.

urbanskipper4 said:Ugh, tell me about it. The noise was driving me insane too. Honestly, I just wanted to grab someone and punch them.
I was taking Xanax, three 0.25mg doses. For the first two nights, I didn't sleep at all because I was just so wired and jittery.
I stayed on it for about a month and a half. At first, I felt great—super upbeat and happy—until it started hitting me harder and I drifted into hypomania.
My doctor eventually pulled me off it, saying it was basically erasing my personality.
Well, she didn't exactly pull me off right then, since I showed up to my follow-up and started laughing hysterically for absolutely no reason.

This is just awful! I feel like I'm finally starting to "come down" today. The restlessness has calmed down a bit, though I still feel incredibly strange... I suppose things should normalize in a few days, hopefully.

fadedbear92 said:Someone actually suggested I open this thread—though, to be honest, it’s something I’ve been chewing on for quite a while now.
For those of you who have come to terms with where you are and are managing things through therapy or medication: in what ways do you feel "diminished"? I personally feel we all carry some kind of weight from it, though I suppose that really depends on how intense the struggle is at any given moment... anyway, if you're feeling up to it, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Do you think there’s a silver lining here? Like, have we gained any unique perspectives or qualities because of this struggle that we might have missed otherwise?

Yes, I do. Look, I can't claim to know the universe's blueprint with 100% certainty, but I am damn well sure that I wouldn't have reached many milestones in my life if I hadn't endured such intense pain and suffering. If things had been easy, I wouldn't have had any reason to push myself, and I certainly wouldn't have delved into such profound depths of understanding.

We have to squeeze every bit of value out of what we're dealt. If these are the cards I was handed, then I have to learn the rules of the game and how to play them. So, here I am, learning. Maybe I'm not the most brilliant student in the class—I don't know about that—but I've certainly stumbled more than a few times along the way.

And where does this impairment show up? In almost every vital aspect of existence: romantic relationships, friendships, family, career. There isn't a single corner of life that remains untouched by it, but I am making progress.

I'm 33 years old, and it’s only now that I’m finally learning how to forgive myself. It's only now that I'm capable of saying, "What happened, happened; now move on and live, because you deserve to." It still impacts everything and continues to "damage" different areas of my life, but perhaps, just perhaps, it's hitting a little less hard than it used to.

fadedbear92 said:Serotonin Syndrome

http://dl.glitter-graphics.net/pub/5...zem2f5vw6x.gif

Serotonin syndrome can be a life-threatening reaction! Symptoms can kick in anywhere from a few minutes to several hours later. It generally involves shifts in mental state, increased neuromuscular activity, and autonomic nervous system instability.

Mental state changes include things like confusion, agitation, hallucinations, delirium, drowsiness—and even coma in up to 40% of patients. About half of patients show signs of heightened neuromuscular activity, such as severe shivering, tremors, teeth grinding, ocular clonus, myoclonus, spontaneous clonus, and hyperreflexia.

http://news.cnn.com/health/serotonin_syndrome

http://dl.glitter-graphics.net/pub/5...zem2f5vw6x.gif

"...Serotonin syndrome can be an extremely dangerous and serious condition—most often occurring when different classes of antidepressants (like MAOIs and SSRIs) are combined. If you were actually dealing with serotonin syndrome, the symptoms would likely be intense enough that you wouldn't even have to wonder; you'd just head straight to the ER. Generally, it leads to intense dizziness, euphoria, uncontrolled eye movements (like twitching), exaggerated reflexes, muscle contractions, leg shaking (or shaking elsewhere), hyperactivity, high fever, confusion, fainting, and in rare cases, death. As long as you're taking just one type of antidepressant at moderate or standard doses, you shouldn't have any issues—but if you ever suspect something is wrong, please just go see a doctor and get checked out...." http://www.mayoclinic.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=495

Look, that’s fine. It’s a comforting thought, I suppose. But honestly, I don't doubt for a second that something more serious is going on. My doctor was reacting quite strongly yesterday when I laid out exactly how much the Prozac has been messing with my head. :zen:

Serotonin syndrome 😲is something I am genuinely terrified of.

This is my first time mentioning Zoloft here, but now that I’ve switched to Prozac, I feel like I’m on amphetamines. It’s not even just an energy boost; the Prozac actually makes me feel unsteady, and there is this bizarre tingling sensation across my entire head—it’s so intense that if I touch my face, it feels like I can't even feel my own skin. That is exactly why I had to call my doctor yesterday!

I have been scouring some American forums, and the stories are chilling. People are describing full-blown serotonin syndrome—cases where they ended up hospitalized just to survive. From what I can gather, almost every single one of those people was mixing different medications at once.

Honestly? I would go right back to Zoloft in a heartbeat. I don't care how much hair I lose in the process; I just want to feel normal again.😢

urbanskipper4 said:I went through the exact same thing. I was literally just like that.

So, when did it finally stop? When did you actually quit taking it?
Did you try tapering off using Helex to ease into that adjustment phase?

I called my doctor today and told her straight up that I’m feeling, uhm, a little bit unhinged from this Prozac. Her response? She basically told me to just stick with it for a while longer and use Helex to take the edge off, claiming everything is fine as long as I don't slip into mania (mania?!😲 Seriously, she even mentioned that.)
I feel like my senses are dialed up way too high—especially my hearing. I’ve always been sensitive to noise, but now it feels absolutely overwhelming.😢 )

urbanskipper4 said:I don't get why you're dissolving Prozac in your mouth? Is that even a tablet designed to melt like that?

I am not dissolving it! I just place it on my tongue and swallow immediately, but that split second while it’s sitting there is more than enough time for me to taste that absolutely revolting aftertaste that lingers on my tongue long after I've swallowed.

urbanskipper4 said:How are you feeling on Prozac?

This is how I feel: 🙂
It hits my head so hard that I don't even feel like myself; it’s like being drugged. I’m constantly tapping my feet, drumming my fingers, or just fidgeting with anything within reach—I'm incredibly hyperactive (which is exactly how Zoloft made me feel when I first started it). It eventually gets to the point where I have to take Helex just so I don't feel like I'm going to jump out of my own skin. The restlessness it creates is just horrific.

And what bothers me most is how I interact with people; I just don't feel "right." Look, I don't usually lose my temper easily, but right now my tolerance threshold has been slashed through the floor.😢 I find myself defending my opinions as if they were matters of life and death, even when it's just some completely trivial, insignificant nonsense.🤷

(At this rate, I should probably put this energy to good use and head down to Times Square to go demand some justice.)😁

Is it just me, or is the taste of Prozac absolutely revolting when it starts dissolving in your mouth? It feels like it just melts away the second it touches your tongue, and honestly, it’s disgusting.

I’m putting this out there because it might actually be useful for someone else navigating these waters.
Basically, there’s been a reported case involving hair loss in patients taking Prozac. Once they stopped the medication—or rather, once the dosage was adjusted—the hair loss issues completely vanished.

The theory is that besides its impact on serotonin, Prozac also influences dopamine levels. We know for a fact that certain drugs affecting dopamine can trigger hair thinning.

Roger Rodriguez said:Which antidepressant are you taking?
I haven't personally experienced this, but I know that various medications—including antidepressants—can cause increased hair thinning. Still, is heavy shedding really the same thing as losing entire chunks while brushing? We shouldn't jump to blaming the meds just yet.
How are your hormone levels? Your iron? Are you taking anything else?

I'm on Zoloft.
My hormones and CBC results are all fine.
I'm not taking anything else besides that. 🤷
It's not falling out in strands, it's just that there's so much of it coming away at once that it feels like entire sections have just vanished.