Someone recently asked for recommendations regarding what’s actually worth watching from the New Hollywood era. While you could certainly dive into the works of Francis Ford Coppola, Martin Scorsese, or Peter Bogdanovich, if you want to see the thematic depth, stylistic flair, and the very worldview of 1970s American cinema distilled into a single experience, you really can't go wrong with Rafelson's masterpiece.
I’m not quite sure what world you’re living in, but here on Earth, names like F. W. Murnau, Fritz Lang, and Billy Wilder aren't considered underrated by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, if you look at any reasonably serious ranking of the greatest films ever made, you’re almost guaranteed to find at least one masterpiece from each of those directors.
Milos Forman isn't overlooked either; though I'll admit his early American period tends to get a bit less attention than his earlier work.
I can agree with you that certain films on your "overrated" list belong there for good reason.
1. The Butcher 2. The Venison 3. Naive Girls 4. Ceremony 5. Beautiful Serge
One of the most prolific news junkies out there, he had a knack for dissecting small-town mindsets, masterfully deconstructing Hitchcock with a calculated precision, and coating nearly every film in a layer of subtle, measured cynicism...🙏
amberwalker4 said:Look, if you like the godfather trilogy so much, just go buy the DVD and watch it all night long. Keep your personal preferences to yourself. Why does it matter if I don't care for the godfather trilogy? Does that make me stupid? Does it mean I have no idea about movies? Am I supposed to stay out of every single film discussion just because the godfather trilogy isn't my everything? Seriously. 🙄Honestly, film "experts" like you are the absolute worst. 😠
amberwalker4 said:Cut the nonsense... Vampires is a great movie! In an era dominated by the romanticized Dracula (Coppola) and Blade, where vampires basically end up looking like little clay pigeons, Vampires stands out as a pure-blooded vampire flick. The only thing I can say about this movie is:
👍👍👍👍👍
I just watched the trailer for The Ward. It looks interesting. I think there is potential here for a solid Carpenter Flick. The atmosphere seems right. It’s about a girl in a Psychiatric Hospital dealing with some very strange situations. The other patients in The ward , four equally disturbed Young Women , offer no answers. One-by-one The other Girls Begin to disappear and Kristen is left to figure out what is actually happening. It reminds me a bit of some of his older work. I am curious to see how they handle the tension. We will have to wait for the full release to see if it holds up.
It seems you're the type who thinks the godfather trilogy "isn't all that"... which probably explains why you find Carpenter's Vampires to be such a standout.😁
To me, "Escape from L.A." is a tragic film, strictly in terms of its quality.
It isn't a problem that the marginalized subgenres which defined the golden era of Carpenter, De Palma, and Craven eventually integrated into the mainstream—becoming palatable to a broader audience while leaving their former grit at the margins.
The issue lies in the fact that Carpenter seems unable to deliver even a solid B-movie these days. There is a common misconception that the "B-movie" label serves as a free pass to disregard script logic or abandon any sense of systematic filmmaking, leading people to excuse mediocre efforts as mere genre fare.
While the cultural climate during Carpenter's peak was certainly more receptive to the specific brand of cinema he and his international peers offered, there is a painful truth we have to face: John Carpenter simply doesn't possess the same level of talent today, nor does he command a set with the same mastery he displayed during "Assault on Precinct 13" or "Halloween."
Then again, perhaps I am being overly subjective. As a massive devotee of his early work, my standards have become so high that nothing else quite measures up.🤷
P.S. I have always held a deep respect for Carpenter's unwavering consistency and his devotion to genre filmmaking.
During the nineties, he directed five films, and honestly, only in The Mouth of Madness does anything feel remotely coherent. Vampires is, to put it mildly, a total disaster—it doesn't even manage to pass for decent trash cinema.
I gave up on Carpenter a long time ago. That man isn't ever going to sign his name to a true masterpiece again. Not him, and frankly, not Hill, Bogdanovich, Friedkin, or Cimino either...
Carl Rivera2 said:They aren't even in order, and five is way too few:
Apocalypse Now (it's an absolute essential) The Big Blue (go see it, my love) Mulholland Drive (Lynch is just brilliantly twisted) A Clockwork Orange (you can't skip this one) Gran Torino (what else is there to say?)
The Godfather (the only one I truly respect) Dr. Strangelove (phenomenal) Three Colors (Blue, White, Red) Amarcord (only Italians could pull off something like that) Apocalypto (if you can forget Mel Gibson directed it)
Dracula (Polanski created the best atmosphere for that genre, hands down) Sunset Blvd (real, pure noir) The English Patient (for when you just need a good cry) Cabaret (speechless) Annie Hall (classic Woody Allen) Casablanca (a total masterpiece)
Star Wars (the original trilogy) Lotr Suspiria (now THAT is atmosphere)
And also: Snatch and RocknRolla (Guy Ritchie is simply outstanding)
It's all fine, though "The English Patient" is a bit much for me...🤷
Andrew Garcia2 said:It’s going to be tough for him to recapture that magic from the eighties Carpenter's era... I don't know, the film just doesn't feel particularly promising to me.
The eighties weren't really Carpenter's golden era; if anything, his peak was during the seventies.
I mean, aside from "The Thing" and perhaps that cool cult classic "They Live," the list of Carpenter titles from the eighties isn't exactly representative of his best work.
goldenhound32 said:And where, precisely, does one find that pretentiousness in Ferrari's film?
I find Ferrari's entire body of work to be somewhat pretentious; he seems unable to shake off this "mini-Scorsese" complex.
"Bad Lieutenant" feels intentionally, pretentiously raw, almost as if to ensure the protagonist's catharsis and redemption remain as transparent as possible.
That said, it's still a solid movie. Sometimes, a bit of pretension is actually justified.
Mark Wood79 said:I’m all for consistency, but the last De Palma flick I caught (Black Dahlia) was just a sluggish, missed attempt at adapting a hard-boiled crime story. Curtis Hanson made one of the best films of that entire decade about ten years earlier and totally outshined his veteran colleague. I don't know what happened; De Palma used to be such a master storyteller. This one had mediocre acting and felt rhythmically off... sure, there were some "Hitchcockian" touches (like that rope scene), plus those deep subjective shots and other little nods to De Palma's signature style, but overall, "Black Dahlia" turned out to be a pretty raw and unpalatable mess. It seems even De Palma is becoming a bit of a lost, erratic director.🤷
I won't bring up Altman right now since he's passed away. So, among the living, there’s almost nobody left. Maybe Scorsese—whom I usually give a pass—should actually consider retirement. I saw Shutter Island in theaters and kept telling myself it was good and tense, but thinking about rewatching it now... honestly, no thanks. I think I'd find it boring. I’d much rather watch Street of Evil, Alice, or Taxi Driver for the tenth time if I had to.
And don't even get me started on Orson's kid. Where did he disappear to? I was watching The Sopranos recently and saw him playing some psychologist! Good grief, Petra, is it really that bad...
There are plenty of gems to be found here...
Looking back, even the protagonists from those once-powerful New German films didn't exactly find much success in life.
Black Dahlia is definitely a crime film, but when a man of 67—someone of an advanced age, practically a retiree by any legal standard on this planet—shoots something like Redacted, a punkish film stuffed with YouTube clips, that isn't madness. In my view, it's courage and vision.
Sure, Curtis Hanson outdid him, and convincingly so, but De Palma outdid the entire generation of loud, self-important young directors born into the Facebook era by making a film that, while far from a masterpiece, still carries the hallmarks of a great director. A man who clearly hasn't grown old or faded away.
Regarding the representatives of that new German cinema, I find Herzog's Bad Lieutenant to be a perfectly okay film. It's certainly less pretentious than Ferrari's.
Mark Wood79 said:When I think about this topic, my mind immediately jumps to almost the entire New Hollywood generation. It’s pretty rare to find anyone from that era who stayed as grounded and sensible as they did. Take *All That Jazz*, for example.
If we look at the New Hollywood crowd, the only ones who remained consistently grounded during their careers were Robert Altman and Brian De Palma, as far as one can recall today.
Do movies actually shape who we are, for better or worse? I can't help but wonder if we're all just a collection of cinematic tropes at this point. What’s your take on it?
It really depends on which one we're talking about, because I try my hardest to find at least one redeeming quality in every movie I watch. My grandfather, on the other hand, seems to have this uncanny ability to let every single film affect him negatively—and I mean absolutely every single one. It’s honestly impressive how he does it, especially since his whole thing is that he only ever wants to watch movies that are completely messed up. Being John MalkovichHe spent days on end rambling about him—honestly, he can't even remember the guy's name anymore, yet he still won't shut up about it. Groundhog DayHe’s actually convinced this is doable, and honestly, he had the nerve to tell my entire family that he went through something pretty much identical back when he was playing for the New York Knicks. 😵 Back at the start of January, he was watching... I was thinking about The Exorcist again, and honestly, it’s one of those films that stays stuck in your brain like a bad habit. There's just something about that specific kind of dread that most modern horror movies can't quite touch, no matter how many jump scares they throw at you. It’s slow, it’s heavy, and it feels genuinely unsettling in a way that makes you want to keep the lights on just a little bit longer than usual. (I really messed this one up again). Honestly, during the house blessing, I spent a solid hour just listening to the priest drone on and on; does he even realize how much he’s talking, or is he actually aware of it? I can't help but wonder if they know about this over at Vatican City, and why the Vatican and Boanic keep all this stuff from the rest of us. 🤦 He basically insisted that I drop everything to watch this movie and report back my thoughts ASAP. This is a transcript from our phone call about three months ago—he woke me up around two in the morning because he apparently couldn't sleep.
Good grief, someone please help me out here—there’s this one movie that I just cannot shake, and it’s stuck on loop in my head. "Seriously, Grandpa—what if Ruzin is actually Rosemary's Baby?" It's definitely not Rosemary's Baby; this one’s actually lost his mind. Which one? Imagine some little kids just wandering down the street when they suddenly stumble right into a monster—you know, like one of those rabbits with those massive, creepy teeth. Donnie Darko! Which Darko?
Well, he passed away today. 😢 Well, Dennis Hopper is gone, may he rest in peace. 🙏 He claims that Frank Booth reminds him irresistibly of his grandmother. Honestly, the movie didn't quite land for me either; it left a million damn questions hanging in the air. Like, what is actually going on with him? What kind of sickness is he suffering from—is he just suffocating for lack of fresh air? And she isn't exactly healthy herself, so why on earth is she clinging to such a twisted portrayal? Anyway, I ended up losing it laughing during that scene with the ear.
It’s a straightforward story, really.He’s still going on about Alvin Straight—and if it isn't him, it’s just some other guy he’s obsessed with. It’s like he's stuck in a loop. DarkoRegarding the whole saga with Straight, this guy is out here claiming that his late brother was actually Isidore—apparently, they were estranged for ages, and poor Ziggy ended up passing away just because this lunatic couldn't be bothered to see him. Now he’s going on and on about heading out to Alvin's grave to light a candle, and honestly, he’s been obsessing over this since March. You try explaining to him that Farnsworth is buried in the States, but it doesn't matter; he’s just busy picking out some identical lawnmower at Home Depot and preparing to head out on whatever wild journey he's dreaming up. He hasn't even clarified if he's just talking big or if he actually intends to roll up to that unfortunate cemetery in Lincoln, New Mexico, on a riding mower like Alvin Straight himself.
Therapists aren't doing much to help, and honestly, my family is just at their wits' end. Has anyone else dealt with something similar with their own relatives?
P.S. Sorry if that was a bit of a novel. 🙂
If it weren't for you, The Family, and your grandfather, I would never laugh on this forum...🙏 Cheers to Grandpa 🙏 and to you for writing all of this out so beautifully.
On topic: unfortunately, movies don't affect me at all, or perhaps they do and I simply haven't realized it.
There was a time when Ridley Scott was the one setting the trends, but lately, his name has become synonymous with that reliably mediocre, formulaic Hollywood style we see all too often. Because of that, I’m not going into Robin Hood expecting a groundbreaking masterpiece or some deeply provocative piece of auteur cinema. Instead, I anticipate a well-constructed, easy-to-watch, and harmless seasonal hit—just another entry in a long line of similar productions.
briskhound2 said:I’ll throw out a prime example of pure, brilliant absurdity😈 John Carpenter's *Dark Star*.
Look, as much as I respect Carpenter—and I truly adore his early stuff—*Dark Star* just never quite clicked for me.
It’s a solid, clever bit of satire, but I think I went in with expectations that were far too high, ultimately walking away with something that was decent but entirely forgettable.
That said, it bothers me how often his earlier triumphs are overlooked, specifically those stellar TV movies like *Someone is Watching Me* and *Elvis*. In my view, they hold more weight than *The Fog*, *Halloween*, *Prince of Darkness*, or even *The Thing* combined.
Mark Wood79;26177928 said:There are certainly directors who simply refused—or perhaps weren't capable of—growing old. Take Peter Bogdanovich, for instance. I have a deep affection for ''The Last Picture Show,'' along with ''Paper Moon,'' ''The Last Picture Show,'' and ''What's Up, Doc?'' ''The Last Picture Show'' is a true masterpiece. We were just discussing a recent one, and another titan who made his debut back in the summer of 1968—De Palma! ''Body Double'' is a standout. As for Spielberg, ''Duel'' remains his most visceral work in my eyes. ''400 Blows'' was also brought up in that 2010 thread; I noted then how much of an influence Truffaut's work had, much like how Buñuel's ''Los Olvidados'' set the stage. Speaking of the New Wave, I’ve always been fond of ''Beautiful Serge,'' a debut melodrama by Chabrol that people tend to unfairly overlook these days. Early Polanski is equally flawless; ''Knife in the Water'' serves as a perfect warning of the psychological predator arriving on the scene. And Malick's ''Badlands'' and ''Days of Heaven''... they leave me quite speechless.
Of course, I completely blanked on De Palma, despite how often I champion him here on this forum...🤣
Godard’s "Breathless," Malick’s "Badlands," Polanski’s "Knife in Water," Spielberg’s "Duel," Truffaut’s "The 404 Days," Bogdanovich’s "Targets," or Mann’s "Thief." I suppose "The Maltese Falcon" has always held a special place in my heart, and one really shouldn't overlook "Citizen Kane" in a list like this.
It is quite an interesting pattern; for most of these directors, that debut feature remains their finest work. If not their absolute best, then certainly among their greatest achievements.