Karen Smith9 said:It’s a pretty silly movie—one of those attempts to explain certain Christian concepts to Americans through a comedic lens. Honestly, it feels like such a waste of talent, especially considering how many much better films this same crew has produced in the past...
Aside from the exceptional Clerks, that group hasn't exactly been churning out top-tier cinema.
Mark Thompson6 said:Well, the movie isn't actually that bad. Look, expectations were sky-high following "L.A. Confidential," especially since De Palma was at the helm for "Black Dahlia," but all things considered, it’s a decent enough watch.
On another note, Hilary Swank is a stellar choice for her role—both in terms of performance and physical presence—especially when you consider how Ellroy characterized the figure, particularly regarding their facial features.
The film's sole saving graces are Hilary Swank, a handful of engaging sequences, and some clever mise-en-scène. Given that one expects at least a baseline level of competence from someone like De Palma when everything else is spiraling, "Black Dahlia" earns a passing grade.
Justin Myers22 said:As a massive fan of James Ellroy, I find myself constantly chasing anything related to his work. The Quartet—comprised of Black Dahlia, The Big Nowhere, L.A. Confidential, and White Jazz—represents the absolute pinnacle of crime noir. Adapting something that dense is a monumental task; L.A. Confidential is actually a masterclass in screenwriting because condensing such a massive tome into just over two hours while maintaining narrative integrity is incredibly difficult. The sheer messiness of Black Dahlia proves how hard that is. To be honest, I’m still reeling from how much of a letdown that film was. When I first heard that one of my favorite directors, Brian, was tackling an adaptation of one of my favorite books by my favorite author, I was over the moon. That happiness was short-lived. Visually, the film is stunning, but that’s to be expected from Brian. My real grievance—the thing I haven't forgiven him for—is that after reading what amounts to a total disaster of a script, he simply said, "Hmm, yeah, this seems like a good idea." Fuck you, Brian.
BTW, Joe Carnahan (Narc) is working on an adaptation of White Jazz for 2012. I wouldn't bet my life savings that it'll surpass L.A. Confidential, but it certainly won't be as bad as Black Dahlia.
Agreed. Black Dahlia stands as one of the biggest disappointments of the last decade. I approached the film with the wide-eyed excitement of a child, thinking Brian was finally operating in his element. I love Ellroy's work so much, and then... nothing but a mess.
L.A. Confidential is a top-tier example of hard-boiled noir, and Ellroy's intricate, layered existential crime novel, Black Dahlia, would have clearly fared much better under the direction of Polanski, Mann, or perhaps even Hanson; instead, De Palma butchered it just as he did Betty Short in his film.
To put it plainly, Ellroy's prose is simply too dense and complex to be reduced to a shallow, postmodern stylistic exercise.
Benjamin Thompson66 said:"American Beauty" isn't exactly a standout for me... I find The Ice Storm (1997) much more compelling on that subject matter. Beauty suffers from an unnecessary element: the narrator... If you want a real dissection of society, look toward early Pasolini, or perhaps Fassbinder, or Godard, among many others.
"The Matrix" is a decent enough ride, though it feels a bit too much like a loud blockbuster... if you want true sci-fi depth, watch Stalker; it possesses a layered complexity that makes The Matrix feel like San Remo compared to Wagner or Bach.
The Thin Red Line is certainly a great film, no question... it really should have swept the Oscars... but take a look at this instead: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091251/ This might just be one of the top two or three war films ever made.
As for "Inland Empire"... well, finding anything comparable to Lynch is as difficult as finding anything truly akin to Kiarostami, Bartas, or Jancs... he is one of those brilliant Americans who carries a distinctly European sensibility rather than a standard US one.
You’ve listed two mediocre works and two absolute masterpieces... it all comes down to taste, I suppose. Ultimately, the only area where American cinema holds a distinct advantage over the rest of the world is the sheer volume of capital poured into production; everything else is a much longer conversation involving beautiful cinematic gems from across the globe.
To analyze society, one shouldn't feel compelled to watch Pasolini, or even Godard, simply for the sake of watching non-American cinema. Why not, for instance, explore the work of Altman or John Sayles instead of American Beauty?
Lynch doesn't possess some sort of "European style," and frankly, the phrase "European style" is somewhat meaningless. If we are going to debate this, Blue Velvet and Mulholland Drive couldn't be any more American than they already are.
Broadly speaking, there is no such thing as a bad or overrated national cinema. Any argument regarding the superiority of non-American film versus the inferiority of American film strikes me as nothing more than surface-level snobbery.
Nothing new there, when I actually stop to think about it.
driftingeagle27 said:I don't get it, are you saying it would be better if the director just leaned into being a villain?
Btw who is Abel Ferrara?
Just kidding 🙂.
Not necessarily a villain, but if you caught my drift, yes. I'm actually planning to write a proper review of the film here on this thread soon, where I can really articulate some specific thoughts regarding the movie and Herzog's work in general.
It's certainly a conversation starter, regardless.
driftingeagle27 said:I mean, it probably wouldn't be any fun if the movie was actually malignant anyway, right?
True, but for this particular film, being malignant might actually be acceptable. I get the sense there's a bit of posturing involved here, though even an Abel Ferrara film didn't quite hit that mark completely.
Between the absolute masterpieces that are Ride the High Country, The Wild Bunch, and Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, there are several other solid entries—though I unfortunately haven't sat down with Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia yet. All things considered, this represents one of the most powerful chapters in the history of American cinema.
Nicholas Walker3 said:Kurosawa's Rashomon —does it need more? Ningen no jôken —maybe actually the best movie ever made, if you can even say something like that definitively...
So, looking at America: Bob le Flambeur —just fantastic work from Melville H-8 —by Nikola Tanhofer Blue 9 —from Krešimir Golik Senso, Bellissima, Le Notti Bianche —all Visconti
And then there's probably ten other masterpieces—meanwhile, your list is packed with at least 50 obscure flicks that only made the cut because they happen to be from English-speaking countries...
Bob le Flambeur and H-8 🙏... sure, these lists aren't exhaustive, but that’s just how it is.
I can’t recall the specifics right now, but I have a vague memory of seeing films rated in the sevens or even the eights that, in my opinion, didn't actually earn those high marks. If my memory serves me—and don't hold me to it—I think it involved Scorsese, his work with Alice, or perhaps Street of Evil... I believe you gave Scorsese lower scores, whereas I can't quite wrap my head around which specific blockbusters with inflated ratings I was thinking of.
I’ve never been much of a fan of the ten-point scale; I always preferred the old-school approach of grading on a five-point system. That said, giving this one a 6 feels a bit stingy. If my memory serves me right, you were ( handing 🤷 ) much higher marks to significantly weaker films.
It might not be an absolute masterpiece, but the element of surprise is massive: you’re looking at a relatively obscure, underappreciated, and genuinely great film.
Ferrara is a heavy-hitting study of sin, redemption, and catharsis, whereas judging by the snippets and stills we've seen, the Herzog project feels more like an extravagant pop endeavor. Then again, you never really know—Herzog is a seasoned veteran, and he could just as easily pull off a pleasant surprise.
Burton's two Batman films, Singer's X2, both Hellboy movies... that would be the extent of it. While the first Superman isn't bad, it still sits a tier below those mentioned above, and Hulk is undoubtedly overrated. "Spider-Man" stands as the lowest point in Sam Raimi's entire career. Fortunately, he has God on his side, because he managed to pull himself back from the brink with Drag Me to Hell.