Posts by shadowstag10

placidridge2 said:They had a three-week break and actually showed some progress. Honestly, what they pulled off probably deserved a heavy penalty, but that’s just F1 for you.

If they keep up this kind of momentum for the rest of the season, we might be looking at them being faster than Ferrari, and maybe even Red Bull Racing.

Yeah, I get that, but I think we can all agree that if you look at the whole weekend—qualifying and the race combined—the Ferrari was a total disaster compared to Red Bull Racing and Mercedes-Benz. So, I don't see the point in trying to nitpick Alonso's incredible drive; in my book, Hamilton and Webber weren't any better, but they weren't worse either. Mad respect to those three, and I'm not trying to bash anyone here.
Personally, I’d put Massa and di Resta right behind them, and honestly, Rosberg didn't do much of anything for me—it felt like a carbon copy of how Vettel would've looked if he hadn't dealt with that mechanical failure.

placidridge2 said:Red Bull Racing has a slightly better car—though nothing crazy was obvious in Spain—but Mercedes-Benz hasn't had a better car until this race.

The previous races all showed that. You have to look at the full race distance, not just one qualifying lap.

Yeah, sure, but we're talking about *this* specific race, buddy.

Amanda Williams13 said:Ferrari is basically a dumpster fire compared to Red Bull and this version of Mercedes (who looks like they finally actually sorted their act together during the break). Maybe it’s got something to do with what Fred Vasseur is up to? ☕

Don't even start with that nonsense—Ferrari actually has the best race pace on the grid. They're easily 2 seconds faster than Red Bull and Mercedes, maybe even 3 if you're counting.

I'm not saying Ferrari is perfect, but if Red Bull and Mercedes were actually better, we'd be seeing it.

placidridge2 said:Where was Hamilton when that tire blew, and where was Alonso?

Same goes for Weberko.

Sure, if the SC helped them, it helped Alonso too—otherwise, he wouldn't have seen a podium without Vettel dropping out.

He’d just be looking at an even bigger gap in the fight for the SP.

So now you're actually trying to tell me that two SC calls helped Fernando Alonso more than Lewis Hamilton? Seriously?

Look, if Sebastian hadn't retired, maybe Mark Webber wouldn't have even seen a podium, maybe Nico Rosberg would've spun out, or hey, maybe they'd all just be lost in the woods.

placidridge2 said:Credit? If we're being honest, they were the real stars of this GP, not Alonso.

Jealousy? That seems to be the default setting for most of you whenever Vettel goes up against Alonso over the last three years. 🙏

In what way did Alonso drive worse than them?

Tyler Bennett5 said:From what I can see, that safety car only hurt Alonso; it actually helped everyone else close the gap to the leaders.

Where on earth did I say he gave Alonso an advantage?

You can't seriously claim those gaps are realistic when you're talking about a few laps left after an SC. It's totally skewed.

Give me a break—let's talk about Raikkonen, who managed to finish only 30 seconds behind the winner after grinding through the whole race.

placidridge2 said:Who are we talking about? Cars struggling on dead tires or just slower machinery?

If he’s got xx overtakes, then what was Hamilton or Weber sitting at? ☕

From what I can see, everyone gave props to both Hamilton and Webber ☕

But hey, keep being jealous—it’s a good look on you. 🤣

stormybadger8 said:How on earth can you even compare Jean-Éric Vergne to Mark Webber when you actually look at the results? 🙄
Are you trolling me or are you just straight-up blind? 🙄

In what single category is Vergne even remotely close? 🙄

Do you even grasp that in the entire history of Formula 1, there are only 104 drivers who have ever won a race?
And there are tons of them on the grid right now... we've got 9 winners currently, mostly because the competition has been absolutely brutal the last few seasons—5 World Champions plus 4 other guys with career wins...
And get this—Webber has more career wins than seven freaking World Champions combined!
But sure, let's go with your logic—Vergne is on Webber's level. 😵

Alright, slow down there, buddy. I never once said I was putting him in the same league as Vergne—quite the opposite, actually, I said some really positive things about him. Plus, if you actually read the part in parentheses, you'd see Vergne was just mentioned by accident!

If you actually read with any comprehension, you’d realize I value Webber way more than his zero World F1 Championships—which is the only thing you and your pal seem obsessed with. And I had to slash that "F1" mention just so you wouldn't latch onto it and start listing a bunch of categories that aren't even relevant here.

Look, statistics aren't everything, period. There's going to come a time when Vettel isn't driving the best car on the grid, and if he proves he can still pull off massive things in a mediocre machine, I'll be the first one to tip my hat and admit he's a legend with insane potential. But until then? I'm not convinced. For ME, Alonso is the better driver—and honestly, most fans would agree.

graniteharbor502 said:From what I can recall, Alonso was sitting right behind Jarno Trulli back in 2004, right when Trulli got kicked out of Renault.
Look, Mark Webber isn't some mediocre driver. If he were, there's no way he would've been sitting in a Red Bull seat.
I honestly don't get what else Vettel needs to pull off for you to realize what kind of driver we're talking about here. What’s the magic move—should he start every race from the pits? The guy did everything there was to do to bag a championship. And he did it three times in a row, for crying out loud. So now I'm asking you, could he have won more in the last three years than he actually did? How do you get better than first place?

So, is the new benchmark for being a "Top driver" just driving for Red Bull now? Does having zero world titles suddenly mean nothing?

Like stormybadger8 would say—three is more than two, which I guess makes it more than zero, apparently, which puts him in the same league as Jean-Éric Vergne and all those other mid-tier guys (randomly picked Vergne, by the way).

By your logic, Mark Webber is just an average driver, nothing more.

Personally, I respect Webber enough to consider him top-tier, but damn, so suddenly the criteria for greatness doesn't include world championships anymore?

And seriously, when did I ever claim Vettel wasn't a top driver? The only thing nobody can do is prove someone is better than Alonso using actual stats.

Alright, all jokes aside, cheers for the "constructive" debate, but I'm out of time for this.

So, give me a rundown of all those world champions he actually had to go toe-to-toe with as a teammate.

I mean, he was up against a pretty mid-tier Mark Webber—sorry, not to be harsh—if you really dig into Webber's stats, and don't even get me started on his days running with the guys at AlphaTauri.

graniteharbor502 said:Nick Heidfeld doesn't have a single win—let alone a championship title—so that comparison of yours is honestly pretty laughable. But hey, if you really want to play it that way, Sebastian Vettel was a more successful driver than Heidfeld in three specific seasons. So, technically, he’s got the better head-to-head score against him.

Did I ask about two seasons or three?

So, what you're saying is that for the first two seasons, it's crystal clear Heidfeld was better, but then—poof!—suddenly Vettel becomes some kind of superhero in the third season and flips the script thanks to these incredible "god-tier" skills he just happened to develop out of nowhere? Give me a break.

I'm out. There's no point arguing with you when you refuse to accept that stats aren't the only thing that matters, so don't hold your breath waiting for a reply.

Man, you’re really just circling back to the results again? If you’re gonna be this stubborn and shut down anyone else's perspective, what’s even the point of us talking?

Fine, then hit me with an answer: why on earth would anyone say Nick Heidfeld was better than Sebastian Vettel during those two seasons? When you look at race pace—hell, even his overtaking—he was consistently finishing ahead of him.

Look, I’ve been answering every single one of your questions, so do me a favor and skip the counter-questions.

Look, he’s definitely slower on that opening lap—straight up lacks that raw first-lap burst—but on the flip side, his race craft is just on another level. He reads the situation better, his long-run pace is killer, and if you ask me, he’s way sharper when it comes to actually making a move.

In what specific way is Vettel actually better? Because I’m clearly missing something here.

stormybadger8 said:Alright, so by what standard are you suddenly the arbiter of truth when you claim Fernando Alonso is a better driver than Sebastian Vettel? What if someone else thinks Vettel's actually the superior one—are they just fundamentally wrong?
And what, is your gut feeling some kind of divine gospel where everyone else is just tripping?

As far as I’m concerned, Vettel has been the better driver compared to Alonso since back in 2008, and hey, if you want to call me "ultra-unobjective" for that, fine—at least we're clear on where I stand. 😁
But honestly, screw my "unobjectivity," because those claims actually have plenty of hard results to back them up season after season...
On the flip side, all that intense "objectivity" from Alonso fans doesn't really have anything to lean on besides vibes and feelings...

Oh please, why don't you go ahead and make a comparison against Sergio Perez? I am absolutely dying to find out if Vettel was better than him too. 😂
Seriously, let's just strip away every single outside factor except for raw results and compare them that way.

Why don't you run a comparison between Nick Heidfeld and Vettel during Vettel's rookie year?
Does that mean Heidfeld was somehow incomparably better than Vettel that season?

Alright, look, you're being objective here—you're totally right. Russell is definitely better than Jordan, my bad.

And how can you be so sure Red Bull didn't offer them a deal first, or that they weren't actually capable of landing some massive superstar? For all we know, Vettel might have just been their second or third choice—and then, by some stroke of luck, everything just clicked and they hit this "perfect symbiosis" with the car that everyone seems to swear by now?

it's all just NBA nonsense

This is purely my own two cents, obviously—I’m sure the actual experts in the room figured Fernando Alonso was a much better bet for that Ferrari seat than Jean-Eric Vergne anyway

graniteharbor502 said:Results. Do you actually have some better metric to use here, or are we just gonna lean on "luck" and "vibes"—which are totally objective criteria, obviously—based on how much Alonso's driving makes you feel good?

Let’s throw a curveball here—is Bill Russell (11 rings) better than Michael Jordan (6 rings)?

Like I said before, stats don't tell the whole story of what makes someone great.
Right now, Vettel's got the edge on paper, but whether he's actually the superior driver is something you can't really quantify, so claiming it as fact is a stretch. Sure, Vettel absolutely nailed it at the Canadian Grand Prix—props to him for that—but his performance also showed that his head still isn't quite screwed on straight.

and man, let’s be real—the Ferrari fans are just straight-up biased as hell 😍

honestly, let them stick with the SC until the checkered flag—it’s not like it actually changes anything at this point anyway 😁