Posts by Olivia Evans8

Honestly, there’s nothing more annoying than people constantly trying to rename the exact same thing just to feel special... though maybe the opposite is even worse—calling totally different things by the same label. You’ve got the mystics on one side (because let’s face it, not every desire is created equal, right?) and then the materialists on the other (who think everything is just some big pile of physical drive).

But look, one thing is super clear: we know exactly what we’re doing when we call something "will." The real kicker is... why do we actually do it? Like, what’s the point of anything?

Why does a guy who's had a few too many at a dive bar suddenly feel way braver than someone stone-cold sober...
Or why does someone struggling with depression have thoughts that just hit differently...

It basically all boils down to that same massive question: "why anything at all?"
When we pointed that question at the universe, we cooked up God—basically a convenient noun to fix the problem.
When we turned that question toward our own actions, we invented "will" to solve it.

But hey, one thing is for sure: we sure do act crazy. Take me, for example—I'm sitting here typing this while I've got a hundred other things on my plate. Where does the energy to type this out come from? Why this specific post? And why this length? Why don't I just stop right now? Where does all this drive even come from... and why does it feel like this... 🤔

Look, over my few years and those 7,000 posts, I’ve never felt some massive, overwhelming force driving this forum. It’s always been a chaotic mess, and honestly, it always will be. That’s just how it works when you give this many people a microphone... you can't expect anything else.

The Admin doesn't actually hold all the cards either; it's mostly the mods, and even they don't always need to make themselves known.

Joshua Hernandez9 said:.. that whole thing with the fig tree... it's like a curse on the seed itself..
(.. maybe.. you tell me if I'm totally off base..)

.. it follows the seasonal cycle—spring, summer, fall, winter—just spinning endlessly..
.. it's a curse on anyone stuck in that loop, just circling around without any way to actually break out..
.. zero chance of them ever making anything truly their own.. by choice..

🤔 But man, this carries at least two massive contradictions right in its core.
1. Where does anyone even get free will from?
2. Isn't that just God's plan for that person?
🤔

wiredharbor22 said:I'll keep this brief.

Every time you guys run those IP address searches, the server crashes. I keep getting hit with 503 errors, and I know I'm not the only one on here dealing with it.

Please, just think about whether you REALLY need to be doing that... maybe save it for when it's absolutely necessary.

Don't be so selfish.

Thanks.

WTF? 😕

How do you even "search" for IP addresses 😢((((

steelridge58 said:Honestly, I think we should focus more on teaching logic to elementary schoolers—but specifically *their* logic! We need to nurture that natural curiosity they have and use it as a bridge to introduce them to the actual world of knowledge. In that sense, I think the "step-by-step" programs some of our local public schools implement through fourth grade are actually quite wonderful for developing various skills, though the real headache starts when they move up because the curriculum stops supporting that creative, hands-on approach. It can make it pretty tough for kids to adjust to the rigid, traditional way things are done later on, but hey, I suppose that’s still better than overwhelming them with heavy-duty requirements that are way too advanced for their age right out of the gate.

Wait, are we really talking about servantes? Like, the actual concept? Because if we are... oh man... that opens up such a massive rabbit hole! I honestly could go on about this for hours... just thinking about how it all ties together... it's wild! Seriously though, let's dive in... kaže:
Man, I still remember back in '66 when I started first grade... we spent the entire year just grinding away at uppercase and lowercase letters. That was it! Just ABCs all day long...

When I say logic, I’m not talking about some boring math equation, okay? I mean the actual game of it! You gotta use simple little games to show them basic concepts first. Then, you slowly layer on the complexity, getting more and more precise until they finally land on the actual definition. Because honestly, what is a kid even going to do with a textbook definition? My brother was stuck in third grade being forced to memorize these super technical definitions for things like "media," "television," and "the TV set." Like, seriously? Do you even know the difference between a television and the concept of television? By the time you're 30 or 40, sure, you get it. But at nine years old? It’s just exhausting... and totally boring...

So, think about it... from elementary all the way through high school, they basically throw a massive pile of subjects at you, just hoping one of them actually sticks. But honestly, is that even the right way to do things? Ever since my freshman year, I knew math was the only thing that actually clicked for me. Everything else? Total snooze fest. But I still had to grind out those grades and waste so much precious time mastering stuff I’m probably never going to use in the real world. It feels like such a waste... I know so many bright people who totally burned out trying to chase this "well-rounded education" dream, and because of that, they ended up way less prepared for the careers they actually love. It's such a double-edged sword, though... you could learn everything and maybe find a passion, but man...

How am I even supposed to find the headspace to actually critique my physics experiments when I'm stuck drowning in textbooks about Abraham Lincoln, trying to memorize the US GDP, and reading endless stuff about the Romans... seriously...

The real issue is that school basically acts like a mandatory knowledge dump that everyone’s forced to swallow. Sure, actually *understanding* things is the goal, but if you're slammed for time, just grinding through memorization is "good enough." There's zero room left for actual deep thinking or building up your intellect. It gets pushed aside as this "nice-to-have" thing rather than a necessity...

If we’re being idealists about it, education should be a lifelong journey where you're constantly being nudged in the right direction starting from elementary school (or even earlier!) with all this extra layers of knowledge. Like, kids in first grade should already be getting a taste of logic and critical thinking—developing those essential life skills that aren't part of the standard curriculum. Everyone loves to bash "philosophers" these days, but they totally miss the point that healthy, critical thinking about everything... is actually healthy!

So, school isn't necessarily making people stupid because there's nothing there to make them dumb... it just fails to give them enough to work with.

Mark Torres14 said:But your reflex *is* your will. Your brain makes the call in a fraction of a second. Or do you honestly think every single "free will" move requires a conscious, deliberate thought process?
Does dreaming count as free will then?

In that case, I refuse to call that "will." I'll call it what it actually is—randomness.

So basically, will doesn't exist. It's just something that happens the moment a change occurs. Everything before that is just randomness. But then what even is randomness?

Is dreaming part of that stuff I think doesn't even exist? Because that’s the whole point of this debate... 🤔 Will is strictly about conscious choices, not the unconscious stuff. At least, that's my take.

So you're saying will doesn't actually exist, and instead it just pops into being whenever there's a change? Everything before that moment is just randomness. But then what even is randomness?

Total chaos.

Mark Torres14 said:It’s not instinct, it’s not a reflex, and it’s definitely not just "matter in motion." We aren't talking about free will here—we're talking about *will*. Non-will would be absolute stillness. Everything else falls under the umbrella of will, including reflexes. Unless you're talking about a ball bouncing off a wall. That isn't will; that's just a consequence.

The experience of self never involves free will, just... will. I want to go grab a drink in the kitchen, but whether I actually have the will to do it... that depends.

Exactly the opposite. The experience of self always includes the experience of free will. The problem is that when we try to analyze *why* we did something, we run into causality (determinism). The ultimate cause is transcendent, which is why Kant denies that metaphysics is even possible. Everything has a cause, except for that final one—the abstract mind that defines us.
If we wanted to look at this through symmetry, we'd say everything has its own symmetry except for the human mind, which is, get this, singular and unique.
Why is there only one of those, while everything else—all other things, beings, and phenomena—exists in multiples?

I totally disagree, mostly because my reflexes AREN'T my will. Like, if someone snaps their fingers right in front of my face, I blink automatically. That's not me choosing to do anything!

Actually, it's the opposite. Any experience of "self" inherently includes the experience of free will.

So why don't I feel that sense of freedom then? Is it just because I'm not any different from everyone else?

The issue is that once we start digging into *why* we did something, we run straight into causality (determinism). That ultimate cause is transcendent, which is exactly why Kant denies that metaphysics is even possible. Everything has a cause except for that final one—that abstract mind that makes us who we are.
If we wanted to make this symmetrical, we'd say everything has its own symmetry except for the human mind, which is—get this—singular and unique.
Why is there only one of those, while everything else, every creature and phenomenon, exists in multiples?

But honestly? I refuse to call that "will." I'm calling it what it actually is—pure randomness.

Mark Torres14 said:Look, staying on topic: reason is the phenomenon that lets us step back and look at our own "self" from the outside. You can't even wrap your head around freedom—or by extension, will—without that ability to view your own existence in relation to everything else, both the imaginable and the unthinkable.
We’ve hit on this countless times, and I think we’re mostly on the same page here. Talking about "free will" automatically assumes there's such a thing as "unfree will"—conditioned will—as its equal opposite. It forces us into a binary where we can't imagine anything beyond a simple North vs. South divide.
But we haven't actually tackled the core concept of "will" itself, which is way more complex and vital. In all this, "freedom" is just being treated as an adjective.
Is there such a thing as the negation of will? A "non-will"?

Oh, it definitely exists! Just look at instinct, a reflex, or even just basic physical movement. The only thing special about "will" is that it feels subjective, but that doesn't mean it's fundamentally different from those other things.

The experience of being "you" never actually involves free will, just... will. Like, I might want to head to the kitchen for a drink, but whether I actually have the *will* to get up and do it... that's a different story...

Mark Torres14 said:You're dead wrong. Reason is the prerequisite for free will. Without reason, you're just looking at pure determinism. That’s exactly why Kant rejects metaphysics. You can explain everything through determinism except for reason itself.
Maybe free will is just a crude approximation of determinism. Like shadows on the wall in Plato's cave?

But what even is "reason"? Can you actually give me a real-world example of rational versus irrational thinking? At the end of the day, there's just "I would do this" and "I wouldn't do that"—subjective labels humans slapped onto things and called them rational or irrational. I mean, if reason involves processing info and making decisions, doesn't the word "rational" itself point straight back toward determinism? Or better yet, if you have several equally logical choices based on the exact same data, isn't picking one over the others just totally arbitrary... which makes it irrelevant to the concept of "will"?

I could explain reason using determinism by arguing that consciousness is just a byproduct of our brains, and since brains follow deterministic laws—even if I'm not doing that right now, nothing stops me!

Can you honestly tell me where in your own life you've actually felt free will in action? And how would you even recognize the feeling of *not* having it? What's the actual difference that makes us need to add that "free" label in the first place?

Hey guys! Just wanted to jump in here and share some thoughts on what’s been going on lately... honestly, things are moving so fast! It feels like every single day there's some new update or shift that catches us all off guard. But hey, that's just how it goes sometimes, right? I'm staying super pumped about where everything is heading though! Everything feels so high-energy lately... it's kind of wild if you think about it! Anyway, just my two cents! Catch you all later... kaže:
Wait, who is Alexander?... Seriously, does anyone actually know the deal with him?... I'm totally lost here!
The whole thing boils down to this... he’s basically hardwired to be violent. It’s baked right into his DNA, and honestly? That upbringing didn't help one bit either...

So, Alex is basically the main man in *A Clockwork Orange*. And honestly? Yeah, he’s totally programmed from the jump. But even with all that extra brainwashing stuff they throw at him, it barely touches his actual will... I mean, it's like nothing more than a tiny little wasp sting to him...

So, I was just thinking about those little kitchen helpers—you know, the ones we call servantes? Honestly, they’re such a lifesaver when you're trying to keep things organized during a massive Sunday brunch or something... Just having that extra surface area makes everything feel so much smoother! It’s like having a tiny assistant right there on the counter... total game changer for anyone who loves to cook without the chaos... kaže:
Look, I totally get the definition! I really do...
So, I've been chewing on this idea...
Look, if there’s actually some kind of master algorithm out there—you know, a code that can predict exactly how anything behaves because it’s baked right into the core of what we call life... then free will is basically a myth. It just wouldn't exist. Everything would be predetermined... totally scripted...
Look, here’s the thing... if there isn’t some kind of underlying algorithmic code driving everything, then yeah, maybe free will is a real thing. But if that’s the case, then what we call "life" basically ceases to exist. It's a total paradox! Like, how does that even work??????
So, basically, when we talk about free will, we’re really just talking about degrees, right? It’s like a sliding scale... and honestly, I feel like we're the ones drawing those lines ourselves. Because, if I'm following your logic, you're looking at free will as this thing that happens after we make a rational choice—regardless of whatever crazy chain reaction actually triggered that decision in the first place...
So, if we’re assuming that free will only exists because we have reason, then we could basically circle back to the start of this whole thing and say that reason is the total opposite of a program... right? Is that really how it works though? I mean... maybe...

No way! My biggest gripe with all those people out there preaching about free will is that absolutely nobody actually gets it... How's it going?... It’s all about the will making those calls. Honestly, "reason" is just some arbitrary label we slap on things, kind of like how people toss around the word "freedom"—it's such a vague, empty descriptor that doesn't actually tell you much. So, what even counts as an irrational will or an irrational decision? Can you actually show me the difference...?

Honestly, all we’re ever really doing is making moves based on whatever half-baked info we happen to have on hand at the moment... It’s kind of wild when you think about it! There isn't even a massive difference between acting smart and acting totally reckless. We all just hide behind our own logic, pretending we’ve got it all figured out by listing off all those specific variables that led to the choice (you know, our "knowledge") and how we actually landed on it—whether that process was super calculated or just completely random... It's all just a bit of a facade!

So, you're asking how the lack of an algorithm somehow proves life isn't real? That's a wild one... seriously! Like, where do we even start with that logic? It’s such a trip to think about... honestly! If you're looking at the universe like it's just a bunch of math or some giant computer program, then yeah, I get why someone would say if there's no code, there's no "player." But man, that's such a narrow way to look at things! Life isn't just lines of code running on a server somewhere... it's messy, it's loud, and it's totally unpredictable! Even if there wasn't a pre-set script or some master algorithm guiding every single atom, that doesn't mean we aren't actually *here* feeling everything. Reality doesn't need a formula to be valid... it just exists! It's all about the experience, right? Just pure, unscripted chaos... and honestly, that's the best part!

Jacob Chavez36 said:I guess you could say we actually have free will, but only if we’re capable of acting in alignment with our own human nature.

To me, freedom isn't some reckless "I'll do whatever I feel like in the moment" kind of thing. It's more about having the capacity to do what actually fulfills us as human beings.

It even changes how you look at happiness. If you follow Spinoza’s logic in *Ethics*, happiness is basically just the transition from a lesser state to a greater one—essentially, it's the process of finally realizing that free will.

But you’re still totally failing to justify why freedom even matters in this whole debate! Like, seriously... We have will, that's just an obvious fact at this point. But what does "freedom" actually add to the equation? It doesn't change anything! And hey, we could just as easily say we have "graceful will" and it would be just as logical. Because let's be real—human nature isn't some fixed, unchangeable thing, and saying someone "can" do something doesn't mean any more than just saying "I'm thinking about doing something"...

Grace Williams43 said:Interesting side note

...Once the conditioning—basically the reprogramming—is finished, Alexander isn't avoiding bad behavior because he chooses to be good; it's because his own body betrays him. The second he even thinks about being violent, he gets hit with this massive wave of nausea that doesn't let up until he drops the thought. It’s like you can hardwire someone's physical reactions, but their mind is still technically running its own show.
Still, you've got that twisted prison chaplain whining about how this kind of conditioning basically nukes free will. And honestly? He's got a point. Alexander might have had the initial impulse to lash out, but since his body physically revolted against it, he didn't actually have a choice in the matter. So, yeah, free will? Gone.

What does that even have to do with free will? Before the whole procedure, Alexander had the urge and he acted on it. Simple. After the treatment, he feels sick, so he decides not to take the risk because, hey, being nauseous sucks! If he were some kind of masochist, though, the treatment would actually backfire since he might end up enjoying the sickness that hits whenever he wants to lash out...

The movie lays out a few big points here: first, our desires are baked into who we are. Second, if you rewire someone's brain so that an urge is immediately met with enough intensity of discomfort to scare them off, then you've got a solid plan for rehab.

Even with the treatment, Alexander can still *want* to be violent. He could even go through with it, it would just be way harder for him now. So, in the end, the "freedom" of his will remains untouched by the treatment...

Mark Torres14 said:What even is a program?🤷

Look, you can go find a bunch of definitions on Wikipedia if you want... but here's the real deal. If we can actually pin down and precisely define exactly how matter is behaving, then that whole description? That’s what we call a program.

mistyscout2 said:I'm curious, though—what exactly is this method supposed to be? And who is this mysterious "programmer" we're talking about? How does all this programming even happen? Is this some kind of lesson from Stuart Swerdlow?

Does coding actually need a programmer, or is that just some weird linguistic quirk we've all accepted...??

So, I'm thinking... I might just... intentionally cross out this text 😬

Also, I’m thinking that line is actually drawn right over some text inside the tag... kind of like how you'd strike through something when you're correcting yourself?

What would actual, hands-on proof of free will even look like? And how could we ever be sure it’s proving we have it, rather than just proving we don't? Can we even wrap our heads around—let alone actually feel—what life would be like if free will didn't exist? I mean, can we experience anything other than what's happening... and why it's happening in the first place?

It's wild, right? It always comes back to that one massive question: *why*... plus all the spin-offs like *how*, *in what way*, *for what reason*, and a million other variations. At the end of the day, we really gotta ask ourselves why we even possess will... and why it works the way it does.

Some people have stared into the void wondering why anything exists at all... and they came up with the answer "God," hoping the concept would carry enough weight to actually mean something instead of just being a fancy way of saying "I have no clue."
Other folks have wondered why we make the choices we do... and they landed on "free will," praying that term would eventually hold some real substance rather than just serving as a placeholder for "I don't get it."

Nobody truly knows the how or the why; we just know it is. Honestly, no one who claims to have a perfectly logical take like, "Free will is clearly defined and I'm certain enough to build my whole worldview on it," can actually grasp what it would feel like to lack it... or even what it means to have it. The big thing here is freedom, because if there’s one thing humans absolutely loathe, it’s being trapped.

The real kicker is... how would being unfree actually feel different from being free?

ruggedjackal46 said:So you roll your eyes, twist your own analogy, and throw a tantrum just because I pointed out how flawed your logic was? And now you're the one lecturing me on why people watch movies. Oh, please. You're an expert on why people sit through a flick while eating pizza, aren't you? Thanks for the insight. And you're talking to me about arrogance? It's easy to call someone arrogant when you don't have any actual substance to back up your own claims, buddy.

What receipts? Do I seriously need proof to say that people watch Transformers?

wiredbison82 said:The way you emphasized "within his genre" is a perfect illustration of how you lack any real depth of opinion, especially regarding cinema. If we are playing by those rules, Michael Bay is superior to Ingmar Bergman, Federico Fellini, and even Alfred Hitchcock, simply because Hitchcock was a genius within his own lane.
Within the confines of his genre, no one is more powerful than Michael Bay, and within that same narrow scope, no one is better than Michael Dudikoff, as they both represent the absolute peak of their respective categories.🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Unknown, good luck trying to tell me where I belong...🙄 Maybe if you stepped down from that massive pedestal of yours, you'd realize people actually watch movies because they're fun...

ruggedjackal46 said:And while you're at it, you can probably find folks who think the Earth is flat, too.

So, you’re seriously comparing someone disliking a specific dish to someone claiming the Earth is flat? Man, you must be really proud of that comparison... 🙄