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Posts by electrictiger70

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Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
Kyle Lee7 said:The latter individual was essentially a sociopath or psychotic (a top-tier psychiatrist told The Morning that we're looking at narcissistic personality disorder here)... that's getting a bit too deep for my expertise, so I won't try to play doctor.

Regardless, anyone who is truly aligned with themselves and their inner Source simply wouldn't have the capacity to inflict harm on another person.

Let’s dive into that for a moment. I had actually been considering bringing this topic up, but I couldn't quite pull the trigger, and now that you've already opened the door, 🥳 It honestly sickens me. My semi-layman intuition tells me that labeling unknown's condition as merely Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a massive understatement, because we are talking about full-blown psychopathy, sociopathy, and much worse.
And now we have to ask ourselves: what kind of systemic failures allow such individuals to not only operate with total impunity within the psychiatric establishment, but to actually practice medicine on people? 😲😲😲 I was in shock for three days when I heard on TV that he was a psychiatrist; I had no idea before that... What does supervision even mean in this country? Does it just boil down to students grabbing drinks with professors, or is there actual oversight, or can just anyone claim to be a psychotherapist without anyone checking their work along the way? 🙄
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
feraltrucker5 said:😂

No, it’s more like "occasionally" because I honestly read everything... I mean, I'll jump from self-help manuals straight into trashy crime novels, then pivot to biographies of Soviet dictators, and somehow end up with a chick lit paperback by mistake 😁 And besides, the local library won't let you check out more than three books at once anyway 😢

But hey, you actually gave me a pretty interesting topic to chew on.

What topic? My curiosity is piqued, first and foremost.😁

Unknown literature? Good grief, even if we are discussing Psychology, there have to be some limits... I mean, it is perfectly fine to admit you are hitting a wall, or feeling suicidal, or that life is just total garbage, but reading unknown literature... I think you took me a bit too literally.🤣🤣😛
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
Jonathan Kelly33 said:If you want to heal your spirit and body, check out Louise Hay—that's basically a manual, you really have to put in the work with that book.
Then there's *The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People* by Covey—also a total manual. Great for control freaks or entrepreneurs; he was basically an expert at fixing interpersonal dynamics within American corporations.
And *The Power of Now* by Eckhart Tolle—absolutely stellar read.
My psychiatrist actually recommended the book on toxic parents. It's specifically for people coming from dysfunctional families who need to process deep trauma—for anyone else, it's probably way too heavy and honestly unnecessary.
I absolutely love de Mella—he's so easy to talk to and stays positive, even though he’s brutally honest. Besides being a priest, he was also a psychotherapist.

And what would a functional family even look like? If you can find someone whose parents haven't done at least one thing mentioned in Toxic Parents, I'll buy you a beer—at the very least.😉 😁
Louise Hay? No, that's too much for me. Personally, when things start drifting toward angels and that kind of stuff, I know the author—or in this case, the author—has completely lost touch with reality...
The Power of Now works for me, too. De Mello feels a bit too much like a sermon, and I haven't found much constructive value to pull from his work. It’s all very beautiful, blunt, and honest, but it's also unrealistic. It's nice to read, but difficult to actually apply to life.
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
placidranger said:Exactly—thoughts only impact our subjective reality. Basically, we can learn to reinterpret the chaos around us, which is where that whole "positive thinking" thing actually holds some weight.

Now, if we dive into some heavy philosophical waters: what truly constitutes subjective reality? And where does the line get drawn between what is subjective and what remains objective reality?😉
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
placidranger said:Things happen regardless of whether anyone is watching. Period. There have been countless attempts to argue the opposite, but nothing has ever actually held up under scrutiny. Is there something specific you're struggling to wrap your head around?
Whatever. Dr. Deepak Chopra (1989) 😲 What am I even going to find out on this place?

Physician.
physicist

There is. First—how exactly would you go about proving that what you observe is your subjective reality rather than an objective one? As far as I am aware, that hasn't even been the subject of proof or disproof; a subjective perspective is distinct from an objective one. Therefore, it remains unproven that things happen independently of the observer's consciousness.
Whether we are discussing Schrödinger's cat or Mujin's board, as you so eloquently put it in a previous post. Furthermore, the observer alters the course of the experiment; this is already well-established in the social sciences.
Second, why aren't you responding to my PM? 😉 😁

physician - medical doctor,
physicist - physicist.

Aha, right. For a moment, I actually wondered if it was just a result of my declining English skills. 🤣
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
Alright, look, everyone here keeps rambling on about consciousness being this cosmic currency, talking about the Supreme Being and all that fluff... That wasn't my point at all. I wasn't thinking about those Hindu concepts or those vague, overwhelming "oceanic" feelings—actually, 😉 I’d rather not even go there. I don't really care for those expansive, watery approaches; I find myself much more drawn to Zen, Buddhism, and similar disciplines.

There's some interesting, though somewhat unrefined, material here: http://www.abstractatom.com/buddhism_and_modern_physics.htm. However, I actually produced a solid paper on this exact subject once. I need to dig through my files to see if I still have a copy somewhere...
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
placidranger said:http://www.csicop.org/si/9701/quantum-quackery.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mysticism
I'm no physicist—thankfully, I have Google to do the heavy lifting. 😁

The bottom line? There’s zero evidence that consciousness or mere thoughts have any actual impact on physical reality.

Skeptical inquiry—it seems skepticism is your close friend. 😉 Actually, I won't say more; sometimes being skeptical proves useful. 🙂
Good grief, why don't you just try explaining that to me in two or three sentences? I really don't have the energy to deal with this quote so late at night. 😁 🥳 🙂

Regardless, Deepak Chopra (1989) 😲... there is so much I am going to learn here.
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
placidranger said:physicists would come for you😁 No, seriously—quantum physics is being totally misinterpreted by the self-help industry.

And what makes you an expert on this? Are you perhaps a physicist? 😁 If so, why don't you go ahead and provide a correct interpretation—specifically, explain to us exactly which parts of quantum physics are being misapplied in self-help literature.😛
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
placidranger said:Yeah, something like that—a counselor and a "professor of counselor education." 🤷
The guy really lost his grip years ago. I remember reading some of his stuff on "manifesting"... 😵
Is it an e-book? If I email you via PM, could you send it over? :blink,blink: I’d love to finally figure out what this is all about and how it actually differs from NLP.

Sure. It doesn't really have much to do with NLP.

I read one of his pieces where he claims he felt this overwhelming higher calling one day to go out and interpret Taoism. He does such a terrible job of interpreting it, though. So, my conclusion is simple: either he’s insane, or that "higher calling" was just pure madness. 😂

It can. It doesn't actually have much to do with NLP.

Great. And by the way, I really dig the signature. 😍
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
placidranger said:Quantum physics gets shoved into the self-help genre because it sounds fancy and scientific—but in reality, it has absolutely zero connection to consciousness or any of that nonsense.

I actually have to disagree on this one. :P There really is a connection, specifically through that whole "observer" paradigm that gained traction once physics started suggesting that the act of observing influences reality—that the observer essentially helps shape reality. I won't go into a full lecture here unless I want a group of physicists jumping me, 😁, but I truly believe there is something there. It aligns incredibly well with my favorite Zen philosophies and certain psychological frameworks. And so on.
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
Jonathan Kelly33 said:For me, the ultimate self-help book is the Bible—specifically the Psalms. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not some religious fanatic or anything. It’s just that there are so many terrible, "instant gratification" American books out there—you know the type, all that "you can do it!" and "just do it!" nonsense. It's mostly just junk. But then you have the actual gems, stuff like anatomy of spirit, Awareness, Toxic Parents, Healing the Soul and Body, and The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.

Caroline Myss's anatomy of spirit is a little pathetic and overly sentimental in an American way, but it’s actually good. It’s especially useful when someone has been struggling with a chronic illness for years without understanding the cause; modern medicine often completely overlooks the mind-body connection.
As for Consciousness—is that by Mel? That one is alright. Toxic Parents is pretty infuriating; it’s helpful to understand the mechanics of it, but honestly, who wouldn't want to strangle their own parents after reading it? 🤣 I haven't read the others.
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
feraltrucker5 said:Every single time I spot one of those titles on a shelf, my mind immediately jumps to some trendy influencer on TV doing a promo with Oprah Winfrey, acting like they personally stumbled upon the secret sauce to solving every single human struggle ever known. 🙄 Sometimes I'll grab one from the library just to skim through and see what the fuss is about, but honestly, I can't bring myself to take them seriously... I genuinely feel like scrolling through the threads on this forum provides way more substance than reading any of those glossy paperbacks. 🙂

Offt:
"Occasionally," huh? Look, Nex, it's fine, 🙂 there's no need to be embarrassed. You can just admit that you actually swallow everything those authors write and occasionally tune into Oprah too. This is a Psychology thread; we allow even more blunt confessions here than people do in the US. 😂 From "I can't find a partner" to "I am hitting my head against a wall," provided you include the mandatory disclaimer of "occasionally" or "I have a friend who does that," depending on which version makes you feel more comfortable. 🤣
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
placidranger said:
electrictiger70 Asks:
Honestly, I think Wayne Dyer is a complete fraud. The guy just takes these ancient Taoist tales, twists them around—and from what I’ve seen, he does a pretty terrible job of it—and calls it his own. That's exactly what makes his books so hollow. Honestly, I might just grab an old sackcloth and write my own version of those stories above him. interpretation by electrictiger70—because one day, that just led me straight into self-hanging. And that’s basically the gist of his statement regarding why he took up the profession. All in all—it's pretty straightforward. 👎 Deepak Chopra is just as much of a fraud—but Wayne Dyer actually reminds me of those cheap hacks you see peddling nonsense on local access cable. ☕

Yeah, his recent books are absolute garbage. *How to be a No Limit Person* is from back in the seventies—before he completely lost the plot. Sure, you can catch some hints of rambling here and there, but it’s manageable. He actually used to be a decent psychologist.
Deepak Chopra— 👎
Question—is Psycho-Cybernetics essentially the same thing as NLP? Are we looking at two distinct disciplines here, or just different names for the same concept?

No—this is mostly about self-image.
I’d back Brad Blanton-radical again—hundreds of times if I could. 👍👍 Look, the guy is a legitimate Gestalt psychotherapist—you can tell immediately. This isn't some self-proclaimed guru peddling nonsense; the author actually knows their stuff—at least most of the time.

Look, there’s plenty of actual value buried in the self-help genre—you just have to learn how to separate the wheat from the chaff. Unfortunately, the selection available in most local bookstores around here is hit-or-miss at best; half the stuff on the shelves feels like it was picked by someone who has never actually lived a day in their life. If you have the chance to order through Amazon, do it. It’s worth the wait—you can find just about anything interesting there. Personally, I tend to lean toward the more direct stuff, like Brad Blanton, or the semi-spiritual writers like Alan Watts and Jack Kornfield. Even the latter two can get a bit intense sometimes, but at least they keep one foot on the ground. They aren't just floating around in the clouds like most of those other charlatans out there.

👍

He was a psychologist? 😲 Well, look where that gets you... 🤣

No, this is mostly about self-image.

Is it an e-book? If I send you my email via PM, could you send it over? :blink,blink: I would really love to finally wrap my head around what this is all about and how it actually differs from NLP.
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
Anthony Bailey said:Don't go being afraid of quantum physics.
🙂

Dr. Quantum - double slit experiment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc
😛

I am not afraid of quantum physics. You completely misunderstood my point. I was simply saying that within the specific context of quantum mechanics—where the idea that you get what you seek, or that reality itself depends entirely on the observer, actually holds weight...
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
Kyle Lee7 said:Most people carry around this messy mix of positive and negative beliefs, and their reality ends up being a direct reflection of that—it’s really just a blend of the good and the bad. For instance, I’ve always held the firm belief that my education and career path will go well, and as long as I maintain that high vibration, I find myself constantly moving upward. Of course, I occasionally get tripped up by sudden waves of doubt or fear, which causes things to slide downhill for a bit. However, because my baseline frequency for my professional life stays so positive, any falls are short and minor, while the progress remains steady. On the flip side, I struggle with some deep-seated negative beliefs regarding my personal life that stem from my early childhood. As long as I’m clinging to those old patterns and mindsets, I find myself stuck in the exact same cycles in my private life.

I agree with that point...
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
Kyle Lee7 said:The boundary lies exactly here: one person can't just stop and declare they see white elephants, expecting them to manifest instantly right before their eyes.

But if you imagine that everything possesses its own unique energy—that thoughts have energy, feelings have energy, and matter itself has energy (or if it’s easier to call it vibration)—then, if you can accept that every vibration attracts another vibration on that same frequency... then you can realize that everything happening in your life is a perfect reflection of your vibrational output.

What happens to you, and what you actually create, is a vibrational match to the thoughts, beliefs, and emotions you are broadcasting (as you mentioned—whether consciously or unconsciously).

People will often argue, "But I developed this specific illness that I never even thought about, nor did I even know existed," or, "It's not like I WANTED this terrible thing to happen to me!"
And you're absolutely right; you might not have even heard of that illness. But on the other hand, if from early childhood you lived in an unstable environment and were raised to "learn" that life is dangerous, that you are susceptible to sickness, that people are out to get you, that there is no way to protect yourself, that you are constantly under attack, or that you're just unlucky... then the events in your life will reflect exactly that. That pattern eventually condenses into a vibrational output, which might manifest as a disease you never even knew was possible.

People also resist this idea because it implies they are responsible for the bad things in their lives, but you shouldn't look at it that way. First off, they aren't "to blame," and they certainly didn't want bad things to happen. However, without even realizing it, they were sending out signals that essentially said: "I am powerless, and the world is a terrifying, dangerous place."
But one day, once you understand how this mechanism works, you realize that from that very second onward, you have freedom and choice.

Of course, regarding what you said about trying to think positively at a hundred miles an hour: if you have deep-seated unconscious emotions, core beliefs, or childhood traumas buried inside, those conscious positive thoughts won't act like a magic wand. However, every single positive thought creates a small shift, which leads to new positive thoughts, which in turn brings further shifts.
The real work is inner work, and let's be honest, it's a lifelong journey.

I think we need to emphasize certain points here... it holds true that some of your thoughts or unconscious patterns might eventually lead to an energetic blockage or physical illness because the psyche and the body are not separate. However, saying that simply learning life is dangerous will cause you to contract a specific disease feels like a bit of an overreach to me. I understand your point, but I think you are exaggerating, primarily because the implications of your claim are extreme and parts of the logic don't quite hold up—this whole quantum physics angle isn't that simple. For instance, what about those people who do terrible things and think terrible things every day, yet nothing bad seems to happen to them? That’s where the error lies from the start: what we are discussing isn't just "thoughts," it is unconscious belief patterns. Saying thoughts shape the world is not the same as saying unconscious belief patterns shape the world.

People also resist this idea because it would imply they are responsible for the bad things in their lives, but that shouldn't be viewed that way. First off, they aren't "to blame" and they didn't desire for bad things to occur, but they were—unbeknownst to them—sending out signals that say: I am powerless, and the world is a terrifying and dangerous place.
But one day, when you realize how this works, you realize that from that moment on, you have freedom and choice.

Of course, as you noted, you can try to think positively at a hundred miles an hour, but if deep down you harbor unconscious emotions, beliefs, or childhood traumas, those conscious positive thoughts won't act like a magic wand. However, every single positive thought does bring a slight shift, which leads to new positive thoughts, which brings further shifts.
The real work is on oneself, and that is a lifelong endeavor.

I agree with your line of reasoning, but I would still choose to swap "positive thinking" for the underlying belief patterns behind those thoughts... And that is why this entire psychology of "positive thinking" doesn't work at all; you can hardly address unconscious patterns through conscious positive thinking. It's been tested, and it's ineffective.🤣, the best possible outcome when you find yourself in this position is simply negation.
If we are discussing the process of becoming aware of the underlying belief patterns that drive our thoughts, then we are dealing with an entirely different matter altogether 👍
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
Kyle Lee7 said:Actually, I’d argue thought is more powerful than matter itself. Thought creates matter. No matter how you look at it, thoughts are what draw things toward us—whether it's objects, other ideas, people, or relationships.
You can find this principle echoed in almost every major world religion, from the Bible to Eastern philosophies (it’s the classic "ask and it shall be given" sentiment).
And for instance, electrictiger70 provided a beautiful explanation of this from a psychological perspective.

Now, the fact that your thoughts don't instantly materialize right in front of your eyes the second you think them—which might be why it's hard to wrap your head around—is a completely different conversation.
Just because modern science is still playing catch-up when it comes to explaining these laws doesn't mean they aren't real. A few centuries ago, people would have argued the Earth was a flat disc because they thought they'd fall off the edge if it weren't!

A counterpoint—
what exactly is the distinction between
1. the "thought creates matter" mindset found in primitive magical thinking or narcissistic and schizophrenic disorders—for instance, believing thought creates matter because white elephants have arrived here just for me, or that I can destroy an entire nation with a single thought (magical thinking, such as schizophrenia, for example)
2.
and this more complex version of yours?

Where is the line drawn? 😉

The idea that every single thought manifests physical reality leads straight to mental chaos rather than actual reality. Even if there is some sense to be made of it through popular interpretations or quantum physics regarding how the observer determines the observed, one must remain extremely cautious with such claims...
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
placidranger said:
We’re talking about the subconscious—that non-conscious layer of our total awareness that is just as real as anything else. Every single thing we've ever encountered—every sound, every scent, every lived experience in this life (and maybe others)—is tucked away in there. It's essentially how we exist. It builds our daily reality through memory, logic, emotion, and those automatic reactions we can't seem to stop. Because of this subconscious programming and those deep-seated habits, we end up inviting suffering into our lives—those endless, unresolved cycles—and, frankly, we bear some responsibility for it.

Sure, you could interpret it that way, but no matter how you slice it—thoughts don't actually pull physical objects toward us (unless we're speaking metaphorically).

Well, the question is whether they attract... that is a very thin and dangerous line between magical thinking (psychosis)—the belief that because you waved your hand here, something happened to someone two houses away😉 and other theories that actually hold some weight—that your subconscious patterns pull certain contents into your life that they "require." Not in the sense that you are emitting something radioactive😁 but not strictly through mere thoughts either; it’s more about actions. Or rather, it's at the level of behavior rather than just thought. For instance, someone prone to feeling guilty radiates those vibes quite clearly—and those vibrations usually "attract" someone who enjoys imposing guilt on others. That transmission doesn't even have to be verbal; it can be purely through body language and such...

What irritates me about this whole "self-help" nonsense, and what is particularly damaging, is the idea that one simply needs to "think positively." This isn't just harmful; it's absurd, because for most people, their problems are caused precisely by this unrealistic positive thinking—or what else should we call it😉? Denial. And then you find these groups claiming the power of positive thinking, and honestly, I feel like hitting them over the head☕. While the core concept might be decent, it is completely misinterpreted, and for someone already struggling with themselves, it can lead to even deeper trouble.

Then comes the notion that whatever you think will manifest—often presented in such a banal way—which is a total misinterpretation of a much more complex issue. The reality is that the "power of positive thinking" operates at the conscious level. If your subconscious is still driven by unexamined patterns, you could be thinking positively at a hundred miles an hour on a conscious level, and it won't do a thing to stop you from repeating those same old behavioral loops.
But here we are moving away from the magical idea of attracting bad things via thoughts and approaching subconscious patterns of behavior, action, and cognition, which falls much more under the domain of psychology and psychoanalysis than any mystical science...
Furthermore, this "power of positive thinking" often excludes any form of aggression. It doesn't just exclude it; it denies it. And that isn't just bad; it's dangerous. If we look at it through the lens of psychoanalysis—where every disorder is essentially a form of repression or denial—this becomes extremely hazardous because it encourages further denial and suppression... personally, I would ban such people from writing books.

I mean, in the self-help industry, there are plenty of crazies and unstable individuals out there (charismatic narcissists, sociopaths, or gurus?—that's the question now)😉 so one must know how to separate the wheat from the chaff. You have to keep in mind that certain worldviews are sometimes just convenient ways for someone to justify their own behavior, all while exploiting whatever opportunity they can get.
Best self-help books? in Psychology ·
placidranger said:There was a time when I used to devour this stuff—literally. A lot of it is pure nonsense, especially that "spiritual" self-help garbage. They love to throw in those pseudo-scientific lies about quantum physics and whatnot to sound legitimate.

The list of things I can actually recommend is pretty short. Take Wayne Dyer, for example—but only his early stuff before he started hanging out with Deepak Chopra 😵. Something like *How to Be a No-Limit Person* is decent. Then there's Maxwell Maltz - Psycho-Cybernetics, maybe Brian Tracy - Psychology of Achievement, or even Brad Blanton - Radical Honesty.
Hopefully my spelling wasn't too much of a mess 🙂
.
As for the big-name bestsellers? Usually the most useless ones in my experience 🤷—way too oversimplified and written with poetic fluff that makes them practically impossible to apply in the real world.


To me, Wayne Dyer is nothing more than a complete fraud. It feels like he just grabs these ancient Taoist tales, gives them his own spin, and—from what I’ve personally seen—he interprets them incredibly poorly. That lack of depth is exactly what ruins his books. Honestly, I might just grab an old sheet and write my own version of this nonsense above. interpretation by electrictiger70, because one day, that was the very thing that triggered my self-hanging. And that’s essentially the gist of his statement regarding why he decided to pursue this path. All in all. 👎 Deepak Chopra is a total fraud, but Wayne Dyer honestly reminds me of those cheap snake oil salesmen you see on late-night TV. ☕

So, then there’s Maxwell Maltz - Psycho-Cybernetics.

Is Psycho-Cybernetics essentially the same thing as NLP? I’ve been wondering if we’re looking at two distinct disciplines or just different names for the same fundamental concept. Are they truly separate entities, or is one just a derivative of the other?

Perhaps we should look into Brian Tracy - Psychology of Achievement, or maybe even consider Brad Blanton - Radical Honesty.
I hope I didn't make too many typos. 🙂

I’ve said it a thousand times before, but I really can't recommend Brad Blanton-radical to anyone looking for real change. It's essential. 👍👍 That guy is a legitimate Gestalt psychotherapist. You can tell right away that the book was written by someone who actually knows their stuff—at least most of the time—rather than some self-proclaimed guru looking for a quick following.

There is actually quite a bit of substance to be found within the self-help genre, provided you have the discernment to separate the wheat from the chaff. Unfortunately, the editions available in local bookstores here often miss the mark, as the selection tends to be rather poor. If you have the opportunity to order directly from Amazon, however, I’d say go for it—you can find just about anything interesting there. Personally, I highly recommend leaning toward authors like Brad Blanton, or perhaps some semi-spiritual works like Zen or Buddhism. For instance, Alan Watts and Jack Kornfield are excellent choices. Even though they can occasionally get a bit intense, at least they keep one foot firmly planted on the ground, unlike most of those charlatans who spend their entire lives drifting in the clouds.
Us vs. Them: The psychology of communication in Philosophy ·
ironmarlin1 said:The propaganda isn't just heavy in the East; it’s quite potent in the West as well. If you actually take a moment to See who is footing the bill for many of the Muslim communities here in America, you'll find they are largely funded by the most reactionary elements coming out of Saudi Arabia. And regarding the embassies, the reality is that the vast majority weren't the ones setting fires. Most people acted much like Americans did during the debates over joining the EU. It was all very much "What does the West want from us, those filthy liberals?"—that classic, tired rhetoric.

So, who exactly is saying "they" now?🤣 You’ve essentially fallen right into the trap you just accused me of—you've generalized all Muslims into this single group that "isn't allowed to have symbols," using that very concept as a symbol itself.😁 See how that feels when someone uses your own logic against you? :P

Well, this whole issue concerning the symbols of Muhammad applies to the Muslim community as a whole. That isn't some clever rhetorical trick; it is a fundamental fact acknowledged by Muslims everywhere.🤷

There is a certain truth to what you're saying about their absence of symbols becoming a symbol in its own right. They aren't permitted to question these icons, yet we end up viewing the entire situation through our own lens—specifically, that liberal-rationalist legacy of the Enlightenment, where the mere thought of such restrictions seems utterly absurd because it strikes at the very foundation of Enlightenment order.

To me, this radical binary you're drawing between "Western Enlightenment" and everything else—which you claim we only view through our own biased perspective—strikes me as rather silly. The simple truth is that even in the most traditionalist Muslim societies, people rise up against such rigid orders (take Iran, for example) entirely independent of any Western Enlightenment or American values. Therefore, claiming this is merely our specific Enlightenment viewpoint is fundamentally flawed, because they are reaching those same conclusions on their own terms, without us.

And if there is heavy propaganda everywhere, I think we can agree on that. ☕ While it wasn't the majority burning down embassies, there is an entire network of fundamentalist organizations growing stronger by the day, fueled by a sentiment that is increasingly anti-Western. And honestly, the West's own actions are just pouring gasoline on the fire. Or should I say oil? 🤣 Meanwhile, over here, media conglomerates are piling up, condemning Muslims left and right, and God knows how far that goes. But whatever. Maya said the world was ending in 2012, so maybe we’ll all be gone before we even finish fighting each other over caricatures, oil, or whatever the next big topic is—water, perhaps? 🤣

The whole issue regarding the symbols of Muhammad applies to all Muslims. This isn't some gimmick; it's a fact that all Muslims acknowledge.

True, but not every Muslim was involved in those embassy attacks, like you mentioned earlier. When you use "they," you're implying all Muslims. Basically, we're just going in circles. 😉 I really just wanted to point out that you fell for your own linguistic trap...☕

I find this radical division between "Western enlightenment" and everything else—which you claim we only view through our own lens—to be ridiculous. The reality is that even in the most conservative Muslim societies, people revolt against such orders (take Iran, for example), regardless of Western enlightenment or values. So, claiming this is merely our enlightened perspective is wrong; they arrive at these conclusions independently of us.

But I never said those people don't exist there; I was focusing specifically on our perspective of the East. Is that really so hard to grasp? 🙄 I wasn't suggesting there aren't people there who see things that way; I am simply questioning whether anything today is truly value-neutral or untainted by some established system of values...
But still—the symbolic power of the West remains greater than the symbolic power of the East. Therefore, it stands to reason that the West played a much larger role in the media construction of "Islam" and "Muslims" than the reverse. It's not as if people in Iran aren't watching satellite TV. 😉While we haven't exactly seen 😉
here in America, let's be honest. The real issue remains how they interpret our policies through the lens of their own value systems... and that's a conversation that could go on forever. Relativism is a very convenient tool 🤣