brightridge59 said:I actually missed your post entirely! 😬
Honestly, you’re one of those rare 5% who just gets it. Thank goodness for that. 🙂
I just couldn't help myself, 😳🤣 though you know I'm usually right there with you on these things. 😉 😁
🤣
I know. 🙂 😉
All jokes aside, I see your point. I completely agree with you—the percentage of people who actually pull themselves out of a deep hole is incredibly small. That said, I think there are slightly more than 5% of us out there.😁
Ronald Rogers27 said:It’s tough—objectively speaking—to talk sense into someone who’s biased, hurt, and screaming at the top of their lungs just to make sure everyone from Washington, D.C. to New York City hears them. They’ve swung wildly from one extreme to the other.
Does that sound familiar, brightridge59? If not, go back and read what you wrote to me, then take a long look in the mirror. 🤷
I have NEVER claimed to be protecting or siding with an addict. It’s actually the exact opposite; you can see that clearly in the thread Enky started ("Drug Abuse and Spirituality?") over in the Spirituality discussion. 🙂
There’s a massive difference between being naive and giving someone a chance. You, brightridge59, were naive. You fell for a manipulator's tricks—someone playing on your emotions to get what they wanted. 👎
I’ve been given chances in Life after I messed up more than once. It wasn't about drugs or crime; people mess up in much milder ways that still carry heavy consequences. But back then, I was given chances (not always, mind you) that I earned by meeting the specific goals set for me. The people giving me those shots were experienced. They didn't feel the need to constantly monitor or test me AFTER they gave me the opportunity.
To them, it was obvious that sooner or later, my results would prove whether or not I deserved that trust. 😛
It’s the same deal with addiction, criminal recidivism, you name it. We aren't talking about the offender here; we're talking about the judge—the person setting the terms. It comes down to their experience and their conviction.
Nobody, brightridge59, CAN force you to do anything against your will. Just think about what I'm saying...
Jeffrey Stewart4 is probably in danger because she won't be able to see the situation for what it really is (assuming the guy is lying to her). That’s likely the ONLY point where I agree with you. 😲
_______
Prejudice is a dangerous thing. It has ruined innocent lives and led many others to commit stupid mistakes simply because they couldn't see past their own biases.
I am against prejudice, period. But I am ruthless if I find out my trust was played for fools—if a second chance was just used as a way to "catch a breath" or buy more time.
Ronald Rogers27
I’ll jump in here for a moment, speaking as someone who has spent plenty of time stuck in the mud and has been granted countless opportunities by those closest to me—both with and without prejudice.🙂
I can't summarize my lifelong struggle against prejudice in just a few sentences, so I won't attempt it here. But let's just say I have a profound dislike😁 for all forms of bias, from the mildest to the most malicious.
You wrote that very well. If we were discussing any other topic besides addiction, I would be right there with you.
however xD
Addiction operates under its own set of rules. You mention crime or various setbacks, but you can't group narcotic dependency in the same category as theft, fraud, or lying—even though it certainly shares some of those traits.😁 I'm not sure if you've ever had a loved one struggling with addiction. Trying to "negotiate" with someone in that state, or trying to appeal to their logic, intellect, or the love and connection you share... please don't take this personally, but I don't think😁 it's logical. It's only natural that you're trying to apply the same pattern of trust and second chances that you've used in other life struggles to the issue of addiction. Hell, we're all wired that way.
They were at Walmart😁
but that approach just doesn't work.
An addict cannot pull themselves out alone. Sure, they need support. But it isn't the kind of support that leaves them even an inch of breathing room to act as a participant in their own recovery. Support for an addict must be strong, strict, uncompromising, and merciless. It has to be deaf and blind to all their suggestions, their inputs, their delusions, their desperate attempts to withdraw, and their lies—to every miserable human impulse that will inevitably surface. Because it will. You simply cannot trust an addict.
Even later, once the chemicals are physically out of their system and they begin to navigate the standard agony of processing the real world and their place in it, the person helping them needs at least two faces. One face provides the rehabilitated person with therapy and support, instilling the willpower and strength needed to start healing their own wounds and awakening the intellect required to eventually return to reality. The second face must be ruthless and firm, uncompromisingly monitoring every vacant stare, every conversational slip, and every shift in body language. This second face must be ready to grab that pathetic individual and drag them back to solid ground, regardless of any brilliantly crafted or pathetic little lies, pleas, promises, or "bla bla," the moment they sense that person starting to drift toward the bottom. And it will happen. Over and over again.
This "recovery" process takes forever... sometimes I wonder how the people who truly love me and stayed by my side (and there aren't many🙂) finally reached the stage where they could actually trust me again. I try to replay the movie in my head to figure out when that turning point was. I think it took years and years of me maintaining a "normal" life—just the daily grind of a standard, boring existence—before they stopped counting how many pills I had left unswallowed, checking the trash for empty bottles, or rifling through my makeup bag, things like that... And very often, when I mention taking something as basic as a 1.5 mg Xanax, I can see that long, piercing look in their eyes. I know they aren't doing it on purpose; it’s just an instinctual reaction, a way to keep tabs on me.
To wrap things up: of course, support means everything. I don't know what would have happened to me if I hadn't received it (though, honestly, I think I would have pulled through somehow because I know exactly how my brain was wired back then, but I'm not trying to brag😬). In the end, it was pure spite that saved me. My own, most basic, primal, and perhaps even childish spite. But without support, the struggle would have been much bloodier and more miserable, with outcomes no one can predict.
But you can try and try until you burn out and vanish into your own effort if you are trying to help someone who is unreachable. It is simply impossible. At first glance, it seems like you should be able to break through to anyone if you try hard enough. That is the trap😁 because you absolutely cannot. And it feels devastating when, after X number of years, you realize you've just slammed yourself against a wall that you have zero chance of moving.
If I were in Jeffrey Stewart4's shoes, knowing everything I know now—I would leave. I would mourn, cry, wipe my tears, pick up whatever pieces of my heart were left, and move on. Walking away is far less painful than staying. But it isn't about it being less painful; it's about what is fair for her. It's the right thing to do.
