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Posts by cosmicridge5

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Hi,

We have about 40 cartons left over Ensure and ProstateScan (roughly 20 of each), and we'd love to give them away. If anyone could use them, just let me know and we can find a spot somewhere in town to meet up and drop them off..

Ivanić, I know you’re pretty active over on the 'Zanovidan' forum too, so let me know if you think I should post this there as well?

Best, and wishing everyone lots of strength and luck...
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
I think Coulthard mentioned something similar on the BBC yesterday (if not that exact scenario)—about how back in the gentlemanly days, drivers would actually hop out of their cars and hand them over to their teammates 🙏

Instead of these selfish types we see nowadays 🙏
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
cosmicsailor11 said:I honestly don't get them. Why couldn't they just quietly adjust his RPMs by two laps on the computer and call it a day? Or just tell him, "Hey, you need to save your brakes," or maybe follow Mark Webber's idea—just swear, and then it gets cut anyway due to censorship.

They have infinite options, but no. They go all out with everything, and they do it so clumsily that even a novice could see right through it.

But hey, I suppose when you're pulling in a salary of $100, $200, or $300k+, you can't really expect much better. Maybe they just need more money 😁.

Exactly! 😁😁😁 And I mean, who wouldn't love that? 😍😍😍
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
@Gil

So, personally, I don't find it particularly charming when someone like Mark Webber decides to just dig his heels in and act all defiant... It doesn't make me respect him more as a person or a driver. If anything, it's quite the opposite. 🤷
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
Joshua Newman2 said:Jack Kelly5, comparing this situation to a group of unfaithful partners is a pretty convincing analogy, and I have to hand it to you—I agree with that point. 🙏

But look at it this way: I’ve always had a soft spot for Button. He reminds me of Prost, and I really respect how he carries himself with such class, proving that raw aggression and sheer speed aren't the only ways to win. Now, the big question: Is he actually Hamilton's wingman? A lot of people swear he is, but personally, I don't buy it. I don't think anyone at McLaren ever sat him down and said, "Look, once you catch up to Hamilton, you need to step aside because we're banking on him for the title, while you're just here to play team player—even if your mathematical odds of winning the championship are just as slim." If I knew for a fact, if it were proven, that Button was intentionally playing the supporting role at the expense of his own shot at the title, I’d be the first one to write him off as a true athlete and driver.

I also like Button, and I can't wrap my head around McLaren's strategy, which says a lot. 😁

Regarding the team dynamic, I think they definitely favor Lewis. At least on an intimate level. 😁 I’m not saying they tell the drivers this openly or make it blatantly obvious, but I think it's definitely in the air. And look—the relationship (in terms of power and point gaps) between those two isn't even close to something like Massa and Alonso's. I believe McLaren expected Button to fall behind Lewis more significantly. It will be really interesting to see how things play out if they reach a situation where they actually *have* to help Lewis at Button's expense, which hasn't happened yet.

I suspect how much equality Button is 'allowed' will depend largely on how well he manages to push Lewis. I imagine if he weren't this close—if the gap between them were as obvious and massive as it is at Ferrari between Massa and Alonso—then Button would likely know his place too. 😁 In a situation like yesterday's, he might voluntarily 😉 offer less resistance to Lewis, allowing him to pass without having to issue an explicit order like they did to Massa, and without making the whole thing look as messy as it did.

One of Button's traits—and I'll call it a quality—is that the team's interests actually matter to him. He strikes me as an incredibly rational person who doesn't have ego issues. I think in a scenario like yesterday, he would realize that, for the sake of the team and the loyalty he seems to feel toward them, he doesn't need to defend his position tooth and nail. Unlike Massa, it would be clear to him what serves the team best and what the team legitimately expects from him. He wouldn't act foolishly or fight back so aggressively, only to end up embarrassing the team by forcing them to give him a direct order for something that should have been obvious. 🙄

I also feel for Massa that they had to say it to him. You know, the narrative sounds nice: "let them race, let him pass on track, blocking is cheating"—but when you look at the bigger picture, I don't think that mindset is right. From the perspective of the team, which the drivers are part of, that moment matters. They aren't just driving for themselves at the end of the day; they drive for the team. They should have some sense of belonging, respect, and 'loyalty' to that team, rather than focusing solely on their own selfish individual interests—at least when their own title chances are gone but the team's still remain.🤷 Don't forget there's a massive difference here because Button is still very much in the title hunt, whereas Massa isn't. So, I don't really buy your argument about him "defending his own title chances at all costs."

If I had been in Massa's shoes yesterday, I think I would have let my teammate through in that situation. Not obviously, but let's just say I wouldn't be defending myself quite as aggressively as if someone else were behind me. First off, I’d probably feel like it was my own fault for being such a huge distance behind in the points. It seems reasonable, and honestly fair—both to the team and the fans—to step aside for whoever actually still has a shot at the championship. To be honest, I’d feel like an irresponsible, selfish jerk if I were desperately fighting against my own teammate in a moment like that (especially knowing he's faster, and even if he is, it'll be hard for me to pass him anyway). It would feel like I was being selfish just to take first instead of second—even though being second doesn't realistically change my title hopes—and in doing so, ruining the team's last genuine chance to secure the Drivers' Championship 🤷

I suppose it just depends on your perspective and how you frame it in your head... but I view Formula 1 primarily as a team sport (regardless of the fact that only one driver can win the title). And again, Massa is out of the running here, which he himself has admitted—so in a team sport, I think different rules should apply, or at least ought to, compared to individual sports. 🤷 It reminds me of when soccer players get greedy and refuse to pass, trying to take shots from terrible, unrealistic positions instead... They end up missing, and they directly hurt the team. Personally, I find that ugly, selfish, and just plain wrong. 😳
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
Edward Howard2 said:Pato, don't let them get to you... 🙂>

Alonso is the champ... 🙏 Alonso is the champ... 🙏>

The folks over at the Red Bull and McLaren camps are totally freaking out (and honestly, I can't even blame them). Now that Alonso has become their absolute biggest threat for the title, they’re scrambling to trash anything he does. It’s hilarious because they’re trying to paint his moves as shady, even though those exact same things were happening within their own teams earlier this season. 😁

Whoa, whoa, hold on 🎉

😁

Come on, get involved a little, I could use some backup here 🤣
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
Maria Nelson2 said:Honestly, it feels like you lost your mind back in your glory days 😬

There’s nothing but sparks flying in this place 😁

If only it happened just once 😬 😬 😬
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
Joshua Newman2 said:No, Jason, the principle itself isn't okay. I'm just saying that nobody is a thief until they're caught red-handed. In their case, they were caught, repeatedly. As for everyone else, it's all just talk.

That’s not quite how it works, Gil. Whether you're a thief or not doesn't depend on whether you got caught; it depends on whether you actually stole something. 😁 You become a thief the second you take something, not when the cops show up at your door. 😁

Maybe McLaren managed to pull the wool over your eyes with their little games, but I guess it didn't work on me. 😬

And honestly, the idea that you have to be caught red-handed to be considered guilty isn't even legally sound. There's such a thing as a preponderance of evidence, which essentially constitutes proof. 😁

They were caught, more than once.

It’s not that they were ''caught,'' it’s more like they weren't even trying to hide. 🤷 They did openly what we all know everyone else does behind closed doors. 🤷

In my book, a person who openly admits they're a jerk isn't any less 'immoral' than someone pretending to be a saint while everyone on the block knows they're anything but. 😬
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
Chris Ortiz said:He did, and honestly, the whole thing is just a total comedy, albeit with slightly better acting.

Exactly.

But unfortunately, it seems like better acting is what’s actually valued around here. 😬

I was honestly just imagining what yesterday's press conference would have looked like if this had happened at McLaren. They probably wouldn't have allowed any statements that halfway admitted it was an error. Instead, 😉 Lewis would have recited some long, complicated, and heavily gestured story about how: Jenson was just slower, you know! And my team notified me that he was slower, because naturally, I'm constantly getting updates from my team regarding these things... And I really have to hand it to the team, they did a tremendous job, the whole crew, working day and night so that Jenson and I—who are great friends and have immense mutual respect and appreciation for one another... you know, that's why we're world champions, and that's why things like what happened to Red Bull in Turkey don't happen here... Yeah, basically, Jenson was slower, and then I pulled up alongside him out there and he was like, look, it went like this: he was right here, and I already had my front wheels right here, and then he naturally made sure to leave me enough space, you understand? Because that's just how we operate, we respect each other, and that's why we're champions. Thanks to the entire team, I'm thrilled with this amazing win and I think I can honestly say it was my best drive ever! Jenson was also fantastic! I don't think I've ever found anyone harder to overtake... yet we handled everything perfectly... A fantastic result for the whole team! Trept Trept...

😍
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
Jason Campbell70 said:The reality is, just like in previous years, driver titles have been secured through direct team orders.

Sure.

But this thread seems to be filled with nothing but French maids...

😁
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
Joshua Newman2 said:McLaren isn't exactly one of my personal favorites among the teams, but they handle team orders with much more subtlety. The way I saw things play out at Ferrari yesterday, or even back in the day during the Austrian GP 2002 when Barrichello had to step aside for Schumacher, was unlike anything I've seen from any other outfit—and I'm not saying it hasn't happened elsewhere, just that I haven't witnessed it firsthand. Someone mentioned the intentional crashes earlier, and sure, we've seen that too, but after that mess, Briatore and Simmonds were essentially purged from the sport, and I didn't feel a shred of sympathy for them. My only regret was that Nelshinho didn't face direct consequences, considering the whole thing was his brainchild.

Kill me now, but I just can't wrap my head around that logic...

How on earth is something that is inherently completely identical—exactly the same—morally wrong MORE MORAL if you just do it subtly?🤣 WTF 🤣

I was messing around with this idea yesterday, but today I’m going to double down: personally, I find it much sleazier to pull all these maneuvers just to "better hide" or camouflage something that is clearly breaking the rules—something we can all see perfectly well is a rule violation—regardless of how well it's disguised. I'd much rather deal with people who don't even bother trying to 😁hide it.

I might even go as far as to say it feels insulting when people try to mask it and expect me to act like everything is "clean" and that there were no team orders at all. Even someone blind could see what's happening, no matter how hard they try to cover it up. It's just annoying when they assume I'm too clueless to notice and try to play games with me.😛 😁😁
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
stormybadger8 said:The whole Ferrari vs. Red Bull-McLaren dynamic is pretty interesting to me.

In Turkey, Vettel was clearly faster than Webber, but there was total radio silence. Vettel just pins the throttle—way harder than Alonso was doing behind Massa—creeps up on Webber's rear end, practically swallows him whole, and boom, they collide. (Okay, maybe Vettel went left while Webber went right, but still.)

Then you've got Alonso catching up to Massa and pushing hard, but he can't get past him and eventually gives up. Of course, he’s probably got some cell phone tucked in his suit with an earpiece, so he yells "Montezemolo" into it. He dials a number a few times, but it's busy—probably some old guy rambling away with Charlie.🤷 The phone rings again and finally someone picks up. Alonso says, "Tell Massa I'm faster." A few minutes of silence pass, then they call Massa over the radio to explain what happened and how much slower he actually is compared to Alonso. Alonso really wanted to make sure everyone knew just how fast he was.

Meanwhile, in Turkey, Button was noticeably faster than Hamilton. He catches him and breezes past. Hamilton shouts "Dennis!" into his headset, and the phone rings immediately. Dennis answers instantly, and Hamilton tells him, "Explain to Janson that I'm faster and that he's going to run out of fuel if he doesn't get out of my slipstream." They relay the message to Button over the radio, and Hamilton pulls back ahead.

The point of this story: Vettel, Button, Webber, and Massa desperately need cell phones.🤣
Or maybe we should just ban phones in F1 cars altogether.🤣

😁

I found it quite interesting—and honestly kind of hilarious—to watch the post-race comments on US news yesterday regarding this team order situation. While almost everyone involved, from Schumi to Coulthard, seemed to think it was just business as usual—that regardless of how it looked to us, it's perfectly normal since the team's interest comes first— only Horner seemed genuinely outraged by Ferrari's move. 🤣He just kept repeating it in shock: "But that was a team order! They told Massa to let him through! That's forbidden! They actually told him! We saw it!" 🤣 And he had a face like this -> 😕😕

Yeah, it seems like Red Bull is the only one that doesn't play that game. They just sit there, tapping their feet nervously, helplessly watching their drivers go wild until they eventually crash into each other. 😬

It really shows how green they are... sure, they might be more "innocent" than the others, but that automatically makes them "dumber," funnier, and less successful. And that's exactly why I'd say it's only because of that—they lose both the constructors' and the drivers' titles.

And if, as Schumi so eloquently put it, the sole goal and reason everyone is there is the title, then Red Bull's management philosophy deserves ridicule (which they get regularly) rather than praise. 😬

I wonder what would happen if they actually tried telling a driver to let another pass just once... it would be absolute chaos! If one Webber loses his mind and says all that just because a new wing was given to the lead driver—which is a much smaller issue than being told to yield position on track—imagine the meltdown.😁

Teams that operate like that don't stand a chance at winning a title. As we’re seeing—even when they have a significantly faster car... They’ll always lose out to the ones who traded chunks of their integrity for pure efficiency. I guess Formula 1 is just built that way, and honestly, it always has been.

Most world champions usually end up being the ones who are best at dancing right on the edge of what's considered moral. 😬
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
Joshua Newman2 said:To touch on that point: anyone who has followed F1 since the days when Schumacher ran Ferrari won't be surprised that Massa had to step aside for Alonso yesterday. I’m not saying it’s right or smart; it’s just how they've always operated. No matter how much I criticize Red Bull for their inability to manage a team and throwing away points, I'll always respect them more than teams that don't even pretend to be sporting.

On another note—how are people (especially the folks over at stormybadger8) reacting to Vettel's start and him shoving Alonso into the wall? There are way too many pages to sift through, but if Webber had done that, he would have been branded a lunatic attempting to murder a colleague. I just hope the kid doesn't get a better pass, despite his habit of smoking.😁

TBF clearly missed the start 😁

But I can tell you how I saw it, and I guess I'm pretty soft on both Vettel and Alonso 😬

Yeah, Vettel totally botched it... but now that I know it didn't actually stop Alonso from winning, I can be a bit more level-headed about it 🤣 though in the heat of the moment, I actually jumped off my couch screaming that Seb was out of his mind, that it was incredibly unsportsmanlike, and that he deserved a penalty so heavy it would make his head spin 😬

My take is that it went something like this: Seb had a slightly slower reaction time at the lights, realized Alonso was going to overtake him, and then panicked, lunging hard to the right and essentially squeezing him out... It was a wild move and a complete disaster of a start (which he admitted himself later), but it seemed like an instinctive reflex where he completely forgot all about Massa, who just ended up driving straight through

I suspect Seb was so hyper-focused and obsessed with making sure Alonso didn't get past him at the start—since he knew that was basically his only shot at this race—that when things happened, they just happened... It was a terrible mistake and another bit of bad luck for Fernando (which contributed to how everything played out later) 😬 but I don't think it was malicious; Seb is still a little green, I suppose, so these kinds of things happen 😳 😬

I agree that I’d probably want to stone Webber if he were the one who did it 🤣 but I guess Mark is a much more experienced driver, which is a factor you can't really ignore 😳
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
So I'm listening to Dr. Schumi, they're asking him about this whole situation with letting Alonso go today 😁

Man, what a character. The way he talks is just pure entertainment; I think I’m actually starting to like him more and more 🤣

And then Schumi says: I understand one hundred percent and I would do exactly the same, because at the end of the day—what are we even here for? It's fighting for The championship. There is only one target, and that is winning the championship.

🙏 🙏 😁 😁
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
redheron12 said:Have you seen that clip where Hamilton basically mocks Jenson Button and the British Royal Family?😁

Or even the one where they're racing remote-control cars—Hamilton spins out, and then Button comes flying in with that "you're flying toward Mark Webber" comment.

No, I just watch the clips of Alonso. 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
stormybadger8 said:Fernando Alonso is definitely way worse than both of them combined.👎

Good grief, man, where are you even going with this? 🤣

I guess Alonso is just fundamentally a good guy at heart, but it feels like the whole world has somehow conspired against him. 😳 😬

I'm heading out of this thread. You guys are being way too intense. 😁

Go Ferrari...
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
Chris Chase5 said:I wouldn't call myself a die-hard fan of either driver, but I have two guys at home who are pretty captivated by Alonso's driving skill and his sense of integrity... especially when you compare him to someone like Schumacher or Hamilton. Personally, though, Alonso has never really done it for me... he's just never been my type of driver...

Give my best to the smart men in your family. 🙏 🙏 😁

Chris Chase5 said:Pata, what does Jenson Button or Lewis Hamilton have to do with the German Grand Prix? And why do you keep bringing them up... 🤷 At least they actually get along privately; they seemed so sweet together on ABC before the race started.
The guys from Ferrari and Red Bull can barely stand being in the same room, which honestly makes them way more interesting to watch... 🙂

Well, it seems redheron12 is just trying to get a rise out of me.🤣

At least they seem like decent people personally; they were actually quite sweet on ABC before the race.
The duo from Ferrari and Red Bull can't stand each other privately, which makes them way more interesting to watch...🙂

Lewis Hamilton being "sweet"... somebody just shoot me.😁

Yeah, sure, they're great guys... until they aren't.🙂 Then we'll all have a good time dealing with the fallout regarding that.🙏 😬
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
redheron12 said:Good grief, please—don't just lash out for the sake of lashing out simply to defend Alonso. Hamilton completely totaled his car the day before yesterday and they barely managed to get it back together; you'd think he'd struggle against Button, yet he was still faster in qualifying. I know that might be hard for you to swallow, but looking at pure, raw speed, Hamilton is the best driver on the grid today.

Besides, Button finished 6th today behind Mark Webber, while Hamilton took 4th—don't you think it's possible that Button simply burned through too much fuel trying to chase times that would have put him ahead of Webber after the pit stops?

No, I'm sure it's all a conspiracy 🙄

Wasn't your mother able to teach you that resorting to personal attacks when you lack actual arguments is just a sign of weakness and poor manners? 🙂

Look, I know it might be hard for you to accept, but if we're talking about pure raw speed, Lewis Hamilton is the best driver out there right now.

Raw speed doesn't really do it for me, 😳 and I don't think that's quite what defines the best driver. 🤷 I suppose there are several other components that need to come together—which isn't exactly the case with Lewis; he lacks a bit of that Jenson Button quality, for instance—to actually call a driver "complete." And in my opinion, that "completeness" is what makes someone the best. I think I already touched on this in the thread about Ivan Gumbek, so I won't repeat myself. 😁 😁

Besides, today Jenson Button finished 6th behind Mark Webber, while Hamilton was 4th. Don't you think it's possible that Button just burned through too much fuel trying to chase down times that would have put him ahead of Webber after the pits?

No, I'm sure it's all just a setup. 🙄

Come on, don't be ridiculous; just ask if you don't understand. 😁 I wasn't referring to today; I was talking about fuel conservation during the race in Turkey. 😍
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
redheron12 said:Looking back at those first four races—and I remember watching them closely—Lewis was consistently finishing behind Jenson. Even then, it didn't seem like they were ordering Jenson to just let Lewis through. In Valencia, specifically, Jenson was actually the one to make the move on Lewis, and Lewis fought right back—which, honestly, was the exact opposite of what the pit wall was calling for.

Come on, don't be naive. Just because you didn't HEAR them giving orders doesn't mean things aren't being rigged in Lewis's favor. I mean, just look at how much better they prep Lewis's car for qualifying while Gumbek gets left in the dust 🙂 or how suddenly he runs out of fuel the second Gumbek finds his rhythm and starts breathing down Hemić's neck 🤣. And just because you haven't read about Button being the number two driver in the papers or heard it from Button himself, doesn't prove anything 😁. Just because you can't see the ocean from your window doesn't mean it isn't there 😬.

During those first four races, Lewis was finishing behind Jenson Button

Exactly!! And they're still favoring Hemoš regardless! It's disgusting 😁
GP Germany - 07/25/2010 in Formula 1 ·
redheron12 said:Come on, cosmicridge5, please don't mess this up.

When was the last time a driver at McLaren was actually ordered to let someone else through?

If I recall correctly—and I try to keep my facts straight—Coulthard was sensible enough to know when to yield without being told.

Kovalainen was painfully slow back then; I doubt anyone even needed to give him orders.

Then there was Alonso, who essentially wrecked the team's chances—yet he was never ordered to move for Lewis, and we lost the title by a single point because of it.

It seems pretty clear to the drivers themselves where things stand—who holds the better position—and they should be able to make those calls on their own.

Take Kimi, for instance—he let Massa through once, but nobody panicked about it, mostly because it's understood that Kimi is intelligent enough to handle things without being micromanaged.

So, just STFU!

Bite me! 😍 😁