I actually caught them live last year! I don't think they were playing shows constantly, though... but man, the energy was just top-tier. They sound great live 👍
Cohen gave them his verdict, anyway. We'll probably be debating that until the sun goes down (and honestly, there's plenty of other stuff to listen to or chat about in the meantime!) 🙂
ruggedbadger2 said:I don't think anyone else went to prison (Paradžanov is a bit of a special case). In Czechoslovakia, censorship was also pretty intense, so directors like Karel kachyňe ended up going into exile, and their films were banned from being shown until the regime finally collapsed. Some of those movies are actually really good and deserve more attention, IMO.
I'm not particularly interested in this "plastičan Isus" thing, so I'll probably just skip it. 😁
Amanda Robinson4 says: The movie misterija organizam by Dušan Makavejev came out the same year as plastičan Isus
. They’re actually pretty similar in a lot of ways—enough that Makavejev was forced to flee Yugoslavia just to keep making films.
Can't remember where I read this—maybe some Tom Gotovac interview or something—but apparently Tito watched both 'misterija organizam' and 'plastičan Isus' on the same day. Clearly, the first one didn't exactly sit right with him, even though he basically gave them the green light to exist. But once he finished watching 'plastičan Isus'? He straight up ordered: 'Arrest them all!' Maybe he should've just saved the second one for another day. 😁
It just goes to show that picking the right time to watch a movie can actually save lives! ☕
Though, these clips from the book Lisa Davis46 linked really change the perspective. Okay, we knew things were edited, but seeing it like this for personal reasons... It’s wild how people use the influence of a powerful position...
Censorship was pretty much the standard across all those old socialist countries, but Stojanović was really the only one here who actually ended up behind bars because of a movie. (I'm not sure if there were similar stories elsewhere, but man, so many directors had to constantly fight against the censors)
There’s even this great little story about Kieslowski... He originally shot a documentary about how bad things were for the workers, but they banned it immediately. So, what does he do? He writes a scripted feature film covering the exact same themes, and suddenly, they let it through! That was his big "aha!" moment—learning how to sidestep the censors to tell the actual story he wanted to tell in the first place...
Jack Cook7 said:Looking back at it now, what was actually wrong with the "regime" suppressing stuff like this?
Well, if you look at all the other acclaimed hits from that era, they were all basically just pieces of national propaganda... they had to be if they were hitting those specific themes, but this one? This one took a different path.
Actually, the Black Wave had plenty of those—films tackling questionable topics for the government. That same year, Dušan Makavejev released misterija organizam, which is honestly pretty similar to plastičan Isus in many ways... it's actually why Makavejev was forced to leave the US to keep making movies.
Now, I'm not trying to critique the movie itself—some people will love it, some won't, and that's totally fair! It’s weird, experimental, and definitely not for the masses... but it served as proof that there was a more "democratic" side out there that just wasn't allowed to speak up. Not everyone wanted to swallow the official propaganda that was screaming from every news outlet and movie screen, especially when it was clearly masking lies, corruption, and hypocrisy.
Lisa Davis46 said:It’s pretty funny how you guys all jumped down my throat over one single point that I literally mentioned in the intro wasn't even verified info. But hey, at least the thread is active now. 😁
And thanks, Amanda Robinson4, for clearing up that mystery! I haven't seen the second half yet—hopefully tonight if I can actually wrap up everything else I have to do.
Yeah, that's actually the most problematic part of this whole thing for me. And what Amanda Robinson4 mentioned in her last post too. The reality is, we're talking about a young guy who made this as his final project at the Academy, under actual mentorship. He presented it to a committee that gave him an A—the highest grade possible. It makes you wonder: why did nobody stand by him or defend the work later? Does the student just shoulder all the blame alone? At our university, they'll fail people during their final defense if a project doesn't meet every single requirement (or people just bail before the presentation). If I've got my facts straight, the guy ended up in prison twice—first back in '73 right after being convicted, and then again in the '90s after the film was cleared.
I guess it's pretty questionable whether he ever had a real shot at making anything else, or even staying in the film industry after all that... though he clearly had potential. I don't know if there's more info out there; I barely found this, from the intro.
I’m really glad you pointed that out. That's honestly how I saw him, too. He was just... effortless.
Yeah, see how easily people get triggered? If this were just a clickbait headline, it would say, "Controversial! You won't believe what Tom Gotovac did in front of minors!" 😁 Everyone would be rushing to watch the film in a heartbeat, guaranteed! ☕
Jessica Morris6 said:If you try to watch this as just some standard motion picture, it makes absolutely zero sense; everything feels totally incoherent and disjointed. You can barely even track the main plotline through all the other stylistic noise... The only redeeming quality here has to be Tom Gotovac's performance, because he actually carries himself with such a natural presence. As an experimental art installation, though, it’s actually quite compelling, since most of the scenes managed to provoke some kind of visceral reaction. That said, leaning on the whole "patriots vs. rebels" trope—essentially just fishing for cheap emotional payoffs—isn't exactly groundbreaking territory...
When you step back and look at the big picture, it's an interesting piece, despite its glaring flaws.
I watched the remastered version and that definitely wasn't in there.
Maybe that's because that whole storyline is actually based on true events! Back then, Tom actually moved to Washington, D.C. to study film directing, so his life there probably looked pretty much like that... But, since they labeled it autobiographical, it might actually be based on Stojanović, which would mean that specific part of the movie is scripted after all. Still, I totally agree, Tom just feels so real in it...
Even so, you have to admit that leaning into those old clashes between factions isn't exactly groundbreaking... it's kind of cheap emotional bait.
The real issue is that back then, any movie touching on WW2 had to basically worship Tito and Yugoslavia. But here? They actually compared the regime to the fascists and Nazis... Talk about a gutsy move! It ended up causing a massive scandal, landing Stojanović in jail, giving the Academy in Washington, D.C. huge headaches, and even keeping Tom Gotovac from graduating for a while... crazy stuff...
The style really reminds me of Godard... especially with that way of stitching scenes together, and even the framing of the shots (that non-documentary/fiction part featuring Tom Gotovac). There’s also something about the dialogue—this casual vibe in those provocative lines that just lays bare what the director is thinking.
By layering archival footage of life under totalitarian regimes (and WW2 troops), they’ve created this really cool contrast with the scenes involving Tom Gotovac.
And honestly, I don't get why it was so controversial that the guy actually ended up in jail. I mean, I get it. But regardless, the movie is actually pretty benign, which matches what the Academy commission originally thought.
It’s experimental, and those "sexually explicit scenes" aren't even meant to be provocative in that sense... it isn't some weird thing about minors; it’s more like someone playing softcore clips on a projector in front of a kid, who isn't even paying attention, until the kid's mother walks in and starts lecturing them about letting him watch stuff like that. 😁.
All in all, it’s an interesting watch... feels more like a time capsule of an era, especially when you factor in all the drama surrounding the film itself.
Arthur Brown6, which albums are we talking about here?
Just a quick heads-up: brightwolf48, Kenneth Price6 and Jason White17; okay, look, you guys probably just disappeared for the weekend, no biggie! But once you see this, I’m calling on you to start those threads for the albums you suggested. They’re scheduled to drop this week per our plan, so get ready...
And since we've got ten new albums on the plate right now, I was thinking—maybe it’s better if we push things back to next week? That way everyone actually has time to listen and chat about the current batch without feeling rushed. So, instead of doing the suggestions and the poll this Thursday, let's just hold off until next week, if that sounds good to everyone?
Man, this week was something else! Honestly, we aren't going to see many more weeks like this one... We decided to shake things up a bit and focus on some suggested albums that usually fly under the radar, and wow, the variety we got was incredible! It also really highlighted how pointless it is to vote for clones or try to manipulate people into voting for someone else's picks. Moving forward, we’re going to be way more careful about this. If any shady business pops up regarding specific album suggestions, those entries will be pulled from the poll immediately—even if the voting is already mid-stream!
No need to hold back on the discussion! Honestly, we actually love it when the albums of the week kick off a bunch of other individual threads. You aren't the first one, brightwolf48, to notice this—over at Jenny Hval, we saw a similar situation where it opened the door for a totally fresh and productive debate. 😉 Mind you, we do have to watch the tone of the conversation every now and then, but that's why Lisa Davis46 and sometimes I am hanging around to give a heads-up or step in if things get a bit wild... 🙂
I mean, I've tried it, but honestly? It didn't really blow me away. Doesn't mean it won't eventually hit the mark, though... I definitely need to give it a few more shots... 🙂
Drew Lewis2 said:Hands down, the best fan-made music video ever... honestly! 😁
To be honest, the music just isn't really my vibe... I can't quite get into it. But hey, who else do you think is pulling in a crowd like that? Nobody else! 😁
So I just went down this total rabbit hole on Google... searched for "techno allah" and ended up stumbling onto this live video performance. I was scrolling through the comments when I ran right into... This is it... Oh man... just... :S
If I didn't know any better, I'd say they're progressive through and through... 😁 I saw some comment somewhere saying that playing drums for Mr. Bungle must be straight-up hell... just pure chaos! 😬 What are they up to? 🙏
I spotted this pink cigarette... Just sitting on the bed the day you moved out... And man, how am I supposed to forget how much your lips were there... That kiss of yours lingers everywhere, it touches everything... except me...
Look, this forum has seen way worse. I still remember those massive blowouts over the third season of Twin Peaks. And hey, look, if you hated it, that’s totally fine—you’re allowed to think it was garbage, that's your right! Why does everyone have to agree on everything? But the whole thing falls apart when someone just keeps droning on and on, acting like they're dropping some deep truth that everyone else is too blind to see... It’s exhausting. In those cases, you kind of have to say something, though I guess that just turns the whole thread into a mess...
But honestly, you made a really cool point by shifting the focus toward what music actually *is*. You just have to keep an open mind here. Unconventional stuff is designed to push boundaries and question the very definition of musical expression. At the end of the day, we're talking about a music album with a super deliberate concept...
It definitely isn't meant for Top 40 radio play, and even if the harsh labels people are throwing at it are a bit much, there's something interesting about what you said regarding the reaction to it. The fact that people are even talking about it means it worked, in a way. It provoked a response, and that's something... 🙂
I don't see anything wrong with someone having a super negative take on any kind of music, so feel free to just relax, brightwolf48 😁 I haven't actually sat down to listen yet, but I'm definitely going to give it a spin soon 😉
Going in totally blind here—I know zero about this album—but based on what’s been said so far, I wouldn't be surprised if John Cage was one of the influences... we'll see how close my guess is!
