2014 Monaco Grand Prix Recap & Discussion

stormybadger8 said:Claiming you can be two seconds faster on old tires than new ones in the exact same car...
I'm sorry, but I just can't wrap my head around that logic. That kind of math only seems to work for certain Alonso fans. 😁

If only Massa could have done that...

Emily Patel64 said:then what's even the point of having a team?

As far as I'm concerned—teams only exist to split the money. If they distributed it individually, the drivers would absolutely lose their minds. Besides, everyone remembers the champion—hardly anyone cares about the team.

Emily Patel64 said:Nico isn't happy being the number two—and given his pace (and talent), it’s not impossible that the team starts catering more to him.

Nico is a German in a German team...

Forget all the rest; what actually matters is that the incredibly likable kid, Jules Bianchi, managed to grab those points. Honestly, nobody driving that Marussia would have pulled off something that masterful.

A respectful nod to the ground.

steelmaker83 said:If he could handle Massa...

Massa isn't even driving for Ferrari anymore; he's at Williams now.☕
Your comparison is absolute garbage... what the hell does Massa have to do with two Ferraris?

stormybadger8 said:Massa isn't driving for Ferrari anymore; he's at Williams now.☕
Your comparison is absolute nonsense... what the hell does Massa have to do with two Ferraris?

Massa himself doesn't matter, but his tires certainly do.

steelmaker83 said:Massa was nothing, but those Massa tires? Pure gold.....

Oh sure, because teams like Force India or Lotus could just breeze through a race with one pit stop in previous seasons, while some guys needed two, three, or four...
but honestly, it’s all the same nonsense. It doesn't matter that Kimi and Alonso both drove for Ferrari, or that neither of them ever sat in a Williams cockpit.😁

Roger Wright94 said:By the way, who was even the driver of the race, besides Jules Bianchi?

For me, it’s Ricciardo—pretty much the standard answer.
Or maybe Hulk, if we're picking the best of the rest?

Adrian Sutil... though his shelf life was probably a bit shorter. 😉

stormybadger8 As follows:
It’s funny how things change. You look back at previous seasons when teams like Force India or Lotus could pull off a win with just a single pit stop, while now, some of these outfits need two, three, or even four stops just to stay in the hunt.
It’s all the same kid. It doesn't matter that both Kimi Räikkönen and Fernando Alonso drove for Ferrari, or that neither of them ever sat in a Williams Racing car. 😁

Emily Patel64, Emily Patel64.

Why didn't you draw a parallel to the cars from ten years ago? That comparison would be just as relevant.

Let's be real: Williams Racing seems to have a car that absolutely shreds tires this season. If Felipe Massa could outpace his teammate while running on ancient rubber, that actually says a lot about how bad the situation is.

What do you all think about all those DNFs in this race? It felt like way too many people dropping out today. I honestly wasn't expecting such a high number of retirements, let alone so many engine failures—if I remember correctly, two Renaults and one Mercedes blew up, on top of everything else... and we're only a third of the way through the season, so the hottest and most punishing races for these engines are still ahead of us.

Christian Harris11 said:What's your take on all these retirements in this race? It feels like they're happening way too frequently. I definitely wasn't expecting this many DNFs, let alone engine failures (if I recall correctly, two Renaults and one Mercedes blew up, plus other issues)... and we're only a third of the way through the season. The hottest and most demanding races for these engines are still ahead.

It’s a bit strange. Based on how testing went, people were already worried about who would actually make it to the finish line... either way, things are going to break.

steelmaker83 said:Give it a rest, seriously.

Why aren't you drawing parallels to cars from ten years ago? Your comparison is just as irrelevant...

Besides, Williams seems to be the biggest tire killer this season. So, if Massa was faster on old rubber than his teammate was on a fresh set, that’s supposed to mean something, right?

That actually proves the exact point you're failing to grasp...
It proves there’s zero overtaking in Monaco, and if you come out of the pits behind someone slower than you—like Bottas did—then yeah, you look slow too.
Plus, didn't Bottas have some minor engine issue in the car anyway?

Dakle, just as Bottas looked slow because he ended up stuck behind slower drivers after his pit stop, Alonso would have looked just as slow for the exact same reason.☕

stormybadger8 said:That’s exactly the point you seem unable to grasp...

Specifically, the fact that overtaking is nearly impossible in Monaco, and if you come out of the pits behind someone slower than you, like Bottas did, then you're effectively slow too...

Besides, didn't Bottas have some minor engine issue in his car anyway...

Dakle, just as Bottas was slow because he finished behind slower drivers after his pit stop, Alonso would have been just as slow because he would've ended up behind them too.☕

Good grief...

What is your problem? Why is this so difficult to understand?

Alonso's only shot was staying out longer on track. Who is talking about overtaking? What part of my assumption isn't clicking—that running one, two, or maybe three laps on old tires (MAYBE) could be faster than Kimi on fresh ones, potentially closing the gap enough?

What don't you get here?!

And why are you fixating on that? In my first post, I emphasized it would be difficult—meaning unlikely, but not impossible.
The 7-second lead was clearly shrinking, and it would have been interesting to see how it played out. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't even try telling me there's some theory where old tires lap faster than new ones for a couple of laps...
That thing with Massa was a total anomaly that almost never happens. It wasn't Massa's fault; it was just Bottas having engine issues and getting stuck in traffic.☕
Bokte, if old tires were actually faster than new ones, nobody would ever bother changing them, for crying out loud.🤣

Besides, in Formula 1, you overtake the guy in front by pitting earlier, not by staying out an extra lap or two. >
There is zero chance you're faster on old rubber than new, unless the guy who pits first gets stuck behind a slow car or hits some other random issue right after his pit stop.☕

And that’s exactly the point. Kimi would've come out into clear air and could have hammered out fast laps on new tires, whereas Alonso might have emerged right behind slower drivers and wouldn't have been able to pull those same fast times.
I told you ages ago to look at where everyone was positioned relative to the "slow cars"... but no, you're still obsessed with Massa and this idea that old tires are somehow better. 😁

As far as not understanding goes, that's a "you" problem. You're trying to explain something that doesn't exist in Formula 1, never has, and never will.
You're writing these little manifestos about how old tires are suddenly faster than new ones—congrats, you've discovered fire.🤣
Maybe you should go apply for a job at a team and explain to their top strategist that changing tires is a total waste of time.
Actually, it'd be best if they just fitted last race's tires to the car or stopped changing them altogether for the whole season.🤣

So, what do you guys think about Massa being arguably the most fuel-efficient driver out there? It’s actually kind of surprising to see Lewis Hamilton being so conservative with his usage, especially since he usually has such an aggressive driving style when it comes to pushing the car and wearing down his tires, yet he’s consistently more efficient than Nico Rosberg. Everyone was pretty much in the same ballpark during this race, though the efficiency rankings haven't really shifted from where they started—Mercedes-AMG is leading the pack, with Ferrari and Renault trailing slightly behind, though Ferrari seems to have a tiny edge. I also can't help but notice that the Renault team still seems to be struggling quite a bit with top speed on the straights. I'm genuinely curious to see how both fuel consumption and straight-line speed play out in Canada, since those differences are going to be so much more obvious there.

stormybadger8 said:Plus, in Formula 1, he’s actually gaining ground by pitting earlier rather than waiting an extra lap or two like he usually does. >

An earlier pit stop can work sometimes. I guess Fernando Alonso pulled that off back in 2012 right here, specifically when those new soft tires needed about 5 or 6 laps just to get up to temp. It might have been a bit tougher here given the heat, but I suppose there was a window of opportunity.

crimsonstag84 said:You can pull an early stop sometimes. That's exactly what Alonso did back in 2012 right here when those new soft tires needed 5 or 6 laps just to get up to temp. It’s a bit harder here because of the heat, but in my opinion, there was definitely a window for it.

Sure, anomalies happen... I guess we could even see Marussia sitting at P1 during a practice session if things got weird enough.😁
But outside of that, there weren't any tire warming issues during this race, so that wasn't why Massa went for it...

Massa pulled that tactic purely because he was using the "desperation play." He had nothing left to lose; the guy started 16th and nobody expected him to score points anyway...
And neither was Ferrari in such a desperate spot, nor was Alonso in a position where he'd bother with a move like that...

Christian Harris11 said:What’s the deal with all these retirements in this race? It feels like they were popping off left and right. I definitely wasn't expecting this many DNFs, let alone engine failures (if I recall correctly, two Renaults and one Mercedes blew up, on top of everything else)... and we're barely a third of the way through the season. The hottest, most brutal races for these engines are still ahead of us.

a) maybe it was just a little too hot?
b) maybe they intentionally used high-mileage engines because this track doesn't push them as hard?

Roger Wright94 said:a) maybe it was just a bit warmer???
b) maybe they intentionally used older engines since there's less strain on this track??

It’s weird because Red Bull's were all brand new, though I can't say for sure about Bottas...

On top of that, they swapped out Vettel's MGU-K and electronics after qualifying so he's stuck with them now...
He even had a fresh gearbox...

Everything was new and it still crapped out.🙂
Red Bull: Made in China.😬 🤣

Well, if nothing else, the race car looks gorgeous. 🙏

stormybadger8 said:Of course, anomalies happen... I guess it’s technically possible for Marussia to top a practice session at some point.😁
Besides, there weren't any of those tire warming schemes during this race, so I guess that wasn't really why Massa went for it.

I guess Massa only went for that tactic because he was basically playing desperation moves; he had nothing left to lose since he started P16 and nobody honestly expected him to walk away with any points anyway.
I guess neither Ferrari nor Alonso was ever in such a desperate spot that they would have actually gone through with that... maybe.

What do you mean, Massa? I think you might be a little lost there. 😬

stormybadger8 said:It feels somewhat peculiar, though Red Bull's components were all brand new, whereas regarding Valtteri Bottas, I cannot say I am entirely certain...

Furthermore, following the qualifying session, they opted to swap out the MGU-K and the electronics for him, which means he is now prohibited from utilizing them...
He even had a completely new gearbox...

Everything was pristine, yet once again, it simply failed us. 🙂Is there any logic to it?
Red Bull, manufactured in China, I suppose. 😬 🤣

But if nothing else can be said, the race car truly does look absolutely stunning. 🙏

The race car is truly magnificent!