Overrated athletes?

darkpilot9 said:See, this is the issue. You’re quoting an article built entirely on raw stats. That makes the argument against Bill Russell baseless. He played in a different era, sure—but then again, Kobe Bryant played in a different era than Michael Jordan did. Do you honestly believe basketball isn't faster, stronger, and generally more demanding today than it was back in, say, 1998? Especially considering the fact that talent is now being scouted from every single corner of the globe.

Exactly. In 1998, the NBA wasn't pulling players from all over the world. 🙄

@Jason Fisher78/">@@Jason Fisher78
Since you want to talk about the greatest players of all time, let me give you some context:
Magic Johnson: "there's Michael Jordan and then There is The rest of US."
Larry Bird: "God disguised as Michael Jordan."
And here are some insights from Bill Russell regarding his take on Jordan: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/sport...rdan_6-15.html

It is quite telling how even they align with the general consensus on Jordan. Or do you truly believe all three of them were simply swallowed up by a marketing machine designed to turn an average player into a superhuman icon?

Carl Garcia22 said:If we're talking boxing, as far as I'm concerned, the Klitschko brothers are overrated.

Quite the opposite. The Klitschkos are actually underrated. I have yet to see a single forum, a single newspaper, or hear a single former boxer or commentator claim they are overrated. Everyone talks about them being manipulators, athletes whose records aren't earned, how they're mediocre and dodge real competition... Maybe people back home think otherwise. But here in the States, the media writes about them as if they're boring, weak, and unwatchable, claiming they have nobody left to face. Whatever.

wiredmason10 said:Back in '98, the NBA wasn't exactly a global melting pot yet.🙄

@Jason Fisher78/">@@Jason Fisher78
Since you're so keen on listing who you think the GOATs are, maybe check out these quotes:
Magic Johnson: "there's Michael Jordan and then There is The rest of US."
Larry Bird: "God disguised as Michael Jordan."
And here’s what Bill Russell had to say about him: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/sport...rdan_6-15.html

It's pretty funny how they all seem to line up perfectly with the public consensus on Jordan, isn't it? Or do you honestly believe all three of them were just swallowed up by some massive marketing machine designed to turn an average player into a superhuman?

I guess there are two ways to look at it. Either they actually mean it, or they're basically stuck in a media cage where if they dared to name anyone else as the best, people would just accuse them of being jealous of Jordan. It's probably just easier to say his name and call it a day. That seems more likely to me. Anyway, let's move on from Jordan already. There are plenty of other overrated athletes we could talk about instead.

Jason Fisher78 said:There are really only two ways to look at it. Either they genuinely believe that, or they're trapped in a media echo chamber where saying anyone else is superior would just trigger accusations of jealousy toward Michael Jordan; it’s safer to just name him and avoid the headache. That seems far more likely. But honestly, enough about Michael Jordan for now. There is a whole parade of overrated athletes out there we could dissect instead.

😂😂 Give it a rest, man... you're being exhausting.

Davor Šuker!
I don't think he's being overhyped for the American scene—on a global scale, his reputation is perfectly earned—since he was essentially the face of American soccer. However, there is one specific thing that truly grates on my nerves.
Whenever an article is written about him—and I mean every single time—the journalist makes sure to mention how Davor Šuker was a household name in every corner of the globe, usually citing some anecdote where they heard his name while trekking through a remote jungle somewhere.
I've read this exact trope a million times now—from New York to small-town Nebraska or even out in the rural South—and it has started to become genuinely irritating. It’s become this predictable cliché, almost like saying "a blatant robbery" or "a classic ambush"... just mindless, repetitive idioms.

The other day, I decided to download a Hangman app on my Nokia, and out of nowhere, the name Davor Šuker popped up in the word list 😛

Edit: To be precise, it was Davor Suker 😬

Raymond Harris4 said:Every now and then—just in little bursts—I’d find myself following Formula 1 (though I wouldn't say I'm an expert by any means). One of those periods was back in the late '80s, when Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna were absolutely tearing it up. After Senna passed away, I stopped watching, and then I "came back" a few years later. The first thing that hit me—and man, did it hit hard—was this overwhelming sense of mediocrity. You had Michael Schumacher... and then just a bunch of decent drivers, but nobody really stood out from the pack, which is why I quickly lost interest again.

Another thing was this glaring lack of guts among the drivers. Back in Senna's era, drivers were actually trying to overtake and muscle their way past one another in the truest sense of the word; they took massive risks. Nowadays, it feels like everything just relies on the team's overarching strategy. Overtaking in Formula 1 used to be like scoring goals in soccer, but sadly, those moves have become rarer and rarer over the years. What’s your take on that?

When it comes to Formula 1 and the '80s (which I remember pretty well), the whole perception has shifted massively over the last 15 years or so. Certain things—like Senna—have basically crossed over into the realm of pure mythology.

People love to toss around the phrase "golden age" these days, but honestly? Aside from a handful of elite drivers, there has never been a time in Formula 1 history where the field was as filled with mediocre talent as it was back then. Most races (probably 90% of them) were—just like today—boring as hell. Getting points was incomparably easier than it is now. Being "good enough" basically meant just keeping the car running until the end of the race, which most of the time, they didn't even manage to do. Over the last couple of seasons (ignoring last year), the gap between the fastest and slowest car was barely more than a second. In the '80s, that was the gap between the leader and whoever was closest to him! Because of that massive disparity between cars—not to even get into the evolution of brakes, tires, and aerodynamics since then—overtaking was way easier back in the day than it is now. It's not that today's drivers lack courage; they're just clinically perfect "machines" now.

As for Senna, to me, he's the ultimate example of an "overhyped sporting icon."

He was lucky enough to compete in an era when sports info trickled out to the public in tiny droplets.

I mean, how do you think a driver today—in an age where every single sentence is dissected under a microscope—would fare if they claimed to have seen Jesus during a race, or admitted to having an "unusual" attraction to young boys, or whatever...

But unfortunately, he died, and the myth was born.

Žan Tabak (this whole debate about basketball players actually reminded me of him). He’s a three-time European club champion, an NBA champion, and an Olympic silver medalist. Yet, if you look at his actual impact on all those achievements, it feels almost non-existent. He spent half his life in the NBA, averaging maybe five points and three and a half rebounds per game.

wiredmason10 said:Magic Johnson: "There's Michael Jordan and then there is the rest of us."
Larry Bird: "God disguised as Michael Jordan."
And here are some thoughts from Bill Russell regarding his take on Jordan too: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/sport...rdan_6-15.html

It is actually quite fascinating how even these legends align perfectly with the general public consensus on Jordan, so I have to wonder if you truly believe all three of them just fell victim to some massive marketing machine designed to turn an average player into a superhuman icon?

You should really try thinking for yourself a little bit,
Jordan snatched up his first championship when Bird was already 35 and Magic was 33, so one has to ask where Jordan had been all those years before that! Why would they say what they said, or why did they? Well,
Nike still moves massive amounts of Jordan brand gear today, and all that hype and myth-making only serves to boost those sales even further. Besides, Bird, Magic, or whoever else is getting paid huge sums of money—do you honestly think they’d start trashing Nike products if they could? It is an incredibly easy choice for them when it comes to choosing between their reputation and a mountain of cash, so you really ought to just view them as faces in a commercial.

Furthermore, if LeBron James or anyone else playing today praises Jordan, do you honestly think they are doing it purely out of free will? It is probably more like 5% genuine feeling and 95% contractual obligation to sponsors because praising him only elevates their own brands, especially when you consider just how much sponsors pay LeBron James annually.

At the end of the day, every single player in American professional sports is tied together by the exact same web of massive sponsors, and if someone were to actually spit on Michael Jordan or disrespect a major brand, they would be hit with a massive legal reprimand and a heavy fine all at once! 😂

I’ve got this nagging feeling that someone parked a white van right outside Larry Bird and Magic Johnson's place, but they're too afraid to say anything about it.

Ryan Vaughn7 said:This whole debate about basketball players actually reminds me of Žan Tabak. Think about his resume: three-time club champion in Europe, an NBA championship ring, and an Olympic silver medal. On paper, he’s won it all. But in reality? His actual contribution to any of that was basically zero. He spent half his life grinding in the NBA just to average five points and three or four rebounds a game. Hard to call yourself a legend when you're barely a footnote on the stat sheet.

Look, Hakeem wouldn't even stand a chance against Patrick Ewing and Shaquille O'Neal in the Finals if he hadn't been sparring with Žan Tabak at practice. 😁

Jason Fisher78 said:There are really two ways to look at this. Either they genuinely feel that way, or they're stuck in a media bubble where they can't say anyone else is better without getting accused of being jealous of Jordan. It’s just easier to say his name and avoid the drama. That seems more likely to me. Anyway, let's move on from Jordan for a bit. There are plenty of other overrated athletes out there we could talk about instead.

🤣

Yeah, Vanya mentioned it was a white van 😂 but alright, enough about Jordan, you've definitely had your fill 👍

frozentiger6 said:I’m genuinely worried that they’ve parked a white van right outside the window for Bird and Magic, but they probably can't go public with that information

That is such a fantastic conclusion, honestly it sounds like something a ten-year-old would say while dreaming about their favorite superheroes like Superman and Agent Zero
But let's be real, there isn't some massive hype machine or organized ad campaign running behind the scenes, and it's just a complete coincidence that this cult of personality surrounding these players and superheroes develops, because there's absolutely no branding involved and marketing simply doesn't exist, which is just how Stern joked 😂
And yet, thanks to him, the NBA is exactly what it is today, a massive global league pulling in cash from all over the world, including Bangladesh, all because of that exact same marketing strategy and the legitimate exaggeration of things for profit—something that regular folks, and even you, end up believing in. It’s all supposedly accidental. 😂 But you've heard it a hundred times before that Howard Superman is a legend and Flying Jordan is unstoppable, so now you believe it and you'll always show up for them just like you always do.

Personally, I find myself feeling pretty disgusted by American professional sports lately because of all of this, and basketball included, since individuals are always placed ahead of the team, and every single squad, even the worst ones, somehow manages to have superstars, which is theoretically impossible; everything is just driven by money without any real emotion, where you aren't even allowed to give a referee a side-eye or swear at them, and coaches are the same way. Everything is forced into this state of total positivity because even a single curse word could count as a potential loss of image. Just look at the EuroLeague, Barcelona, Maccabi, Oly, or PAO... none of those teams focus on a first or fifth player or try to hype anyone up, instead every team functions as a powerful, cohesive unit. But if we are talking about the NBA, someone like Bojan Bogdanović would be treated like a superstar rather than just a solid role player, which is actually what he is.

granitefox15 said:Personally, I’m starting to get a real distaste for American pro sports because of all this. Even basketball—it’s always about individual egos over the team. Every single squad, even the bottom-feeders, seems to have some designated superstar, which honestly shouldn't even be possible in a real system. It’s all just about the money now; there’s zero soul left. You can’t even give a ref a dirty look without worrying about the fallout, and coaches are the same way. Everything is forced positivity because one slip-up or one swear word could tank their brand. Look at the EuroLeague—teams like Barcelona, Maccabi, Oly, or PAO... none of them rely on one guy being the alpha or a fifth option. Every team operates as a cohesive unit. But if we're talking the NBA, someone like Bojan Bogdanović would be treated like a massive superstar instead of just a solid role player, which is what he actually is.

Haha, what a killjoy. If you don't know how to enjoy the game, man, just go watch Ezeli.
If you actually need the media to tell you who a good player is, then you’re clueless. Just because there’s a media circus surrounding someone for profit doesn't mean the sport itself is trash, or that those players aren't legit. Everything revolves around cash these days, and someone's ability to monetize a product is impressive, sure, but that’s not how I judge talent. I don't care how many commercials a guy shoots. So what if every team has a "star"? How does that change the quality of the game you're watching? If it sucks, turn it off. Thank God we actually have options nowadays. I don't get how people waste their energy on conspiracy theories, hating on the sport, and all that nonsense while they’re missing out on the best parts of sports and entertainment.

Honestly, it really cracks me up when Americans—who are about to settle in for a massive rivalry game between the Dallas Cowboys and the Philadelphia Eagles—claim that Americans are sooo stupid. You know, the very same Americans who will be watching the Super Bowl tomorrow and represent the most dominant media, military, educational, and scientific powerhouse on the planet. Eh... good thing we didn't get into how much people look down on the British or call the Italians names, too.

Anyway, hats off to David King6 for that post.

It’s true that Americans have this obsession with turning a single player into a total cult icon. You look at the 76ers and Iverson, for instance. Even during those years when he wasn't playing the kind of high-octane basketball that defines the NBA, the arenas were still packed.

But claiming that Jordan didn't make his teammates better is just massive stupidity. Either the person saying it doesn't understand basketball, or they're just trying to be provocative. 😁

shadowtinker29 said:As far as Ayrton Senna is concerned, he’s just a prime example of an "overhyped sports icon" to me.

He just happened to be lucky enough to race during an era when information about the sport was released in tiny, controlled drips.

How do you think a driver today—in an age where every single sentence gets dissected—would fare if they claimed to have seen Jesus during a race, or admitted to having a "peculiar" attraction to young boys, etc.?

But unfortunately, he died, and the myth was born.

I can't believe I'm actually reading this. 🙂

So, a driver whom his colleagues and rivals consistently hailed as the best, as exceptional, terrifyingly talented, skillful, and someone who was genuinely unhinged and entirely unique in his driving style—someone repeatedly noted for his incredible focus and pure driving mastery—is just some ridiculous guy who saw Jesus and scouted kids to you?

🙄

Jesus... even Thomas Mann had those kinds of inclinations and was a pretty awful guy in real life, but look at him. 😲 He was a brilliant mind with a massive breadth of knowledge who left behind an invaluable body of work, including one piece that openly celebrates his love for boys and eroticism. 😲 😲 😲

How is it possible that such a thing escaped the notice of today's hyper-critical masses? Where is the world even heading? I honestly don't know anymore. 😳

🙄

darkwolf61 said:Honestly, I find it hilarious when people here—who are probably about to head out to watch some local rivalry game between the Dallas Cowboys and the Houston Texans—act like Americans are so incredibly stupid. Like, sorry, but we’re talking about the people watching the Super Bowl tomorrow; the guys who lead the world in media, military, educational, and scientific power. Seriously. It's almost as funny as hearing people call the British slippery or the Italians frogs.

Anyway, props to the kid for this post.

If you say so.

dustypanther6 said:well, if you say so...

I mean... 😁
are you really wondering why all those promising young talents choose to head there for their studies?