Best offshore sportsbooks for online betting?

Sarah Wilson75 · 2011-01-06T12:55:01+00:00

Oh, and one more thing—if you’re looking to move some serious cash, Pinnacle is the place to be. They actually welcome high rollers; depending on the matchup, …

James Taylor3 Newcomer

7 messages
joined Jul 2012

#661 · Jul 26, 2012

Joshua Garcia8 said:It happens—some sportsbooks force you to withdraw funds using the exact same method you used for your deposit. I can’t recall the specifics, but if I remember correctly, I had to use PayPal to fund my account on Bet365 just to be able to withdraw back to PayPal.

That rule is nonsense—completely pointless, really.

In that case, my apologies to the fellow forum member for the misinformation.

Douglas Roberts49 Active Member

121 messages
joined Jul 2022

#662 · Jul 26, 2012

The rule at Summit remains unchanged—withdrawals can only be sent to the same PayPal account used for the initial deposit. Is anyone actually surprised?

urbaneagle57 Newcomer

5 messages
joined Jul 2012

#663 · Jul 30, 2012

Can someone help me clear something up here:

If I win money betting online through international sites like DraftKings, FanDuel, or Bet365, do I need to pay taxes here in the States? I know our local US sportsbooks automatically handle the tax withholding if you win more than $10000, but how does it work when I'm using those big foreign platforms?

Thanks in advance for the help!

Joshua Garcia8 Member

11 messages
joined Mar 2012

#664 · Jul 30, 2012

urbaneagle57 said:Can anyone help me out with this:

Do I need to pay taxes in America if I win money betting online through foreign sites like DraftKings, FanDuel, or Bet365? It seems like our local US bookies just withhold the tax automatically on anything over $10000, but what happens when you're using those international platforms?

Thanks in advance.

Not much to say here—betting with offshore sites isn't technically legal. You're supposed to stick to books registered here in the States. Most people just find ways to bypass the federal laws or the IRS.

Raymond Cruz5 Newcomer

9 messages
joined Aug 2006

#665 · Jul 30, 2012

Joshua Garcia8 said:There isn't much point in even arguing this—betting with offshore sites is technically illegal; you're supposed to stick to bookies registered right here in the States. Most people just "find ways" around the law using stuff like PayPal or other payment apps.

Since when was it illegal to use foreign bookmakers? You actually got a link for that?
Thanks, cheers!

Eric Fox7 Regular

320 messages
joined Jul 2012

#666 · Jul 30, 2012

Raymond Cruz5 said:Since when was betting at foreign bookies banned? Got a link for this?
Thanks, cheers!

Chapter IX. FOREIGN GAMBLING FOR LUCK
Article 68.
(1) It is prohibited:
1. for foreign providers to organize games of chance under Article 5 or prize games under Article 69 of the Law of the United States within the territory of the United States,
2. to participate in foreign games of chance if the stakes are being placed within the territory of the United States,
3. to collect stakes within the United States for participation and payment in games of chance organized abroad,
4. to sell, hold, commercially assign, issue, advertise, or otherwise promote or market foreign games of chance or prize games within the territory of the United States.
(2) The prohibition in paragraph 1, point 4 of this article also applies to service providers and publishers.
(3) Persons who do not have American citizenship but are temporarily residing in the United States are permitted to possess stakes or winnings from foreign games of chance for their own personal participation in the game.

Joshua Garcia8 Member

11 messages
joined Mar 2012

#667 · Jul 30, 2012

So, Eric Fox7 hit the nail on the head regarding the main point 👍

Beyond that, you've got to consider the penalties hitting both legal entities (and the people running them) and individuals.

But—there’s always a "but"—it's all pretty easy to sidestep by just not moving cash directly from the bank to an offshore bookmaker. Instead, use a middleman like MB/PP (Moneybookers/PayPal), essentially making it bank MB/PP bookmaker.

Mind you, the IRS might still stick their nose in. If large sums land in a US bank account, the authorities get a notification, and suddenly you're facing questions about where the money came from or income tax issues. That's why I never move big chunks of cash all at once. Whether the IRS actually has the right to demand transaction records from those internet wallets is still up for debate...

Basically, it’s a massive gray area. It really comes down to what happens when we fully align with the European Union, or more specifically, what our politicians decide to do. The EU left it up to individual member states to decide whether to approve or ban online betting sites that aren't registered locally.
Since there's this 5% "tax" imposed here (which bookies just passed straight to us), and since the government is always hunting for more revenue, and given how our tracking systems aren't even fully established yet, they might just decide to turn this gray zone black. If that happens, they could ban anyone in the US from registering with offshore sites—something Americans and some other European countries already deal with. We'd be stuck with these "local" books, paying that 5% (if they don't hike it) plus potentially getting hammered on capital gains tax.

urbaneagle57 Newcomer

5 messages
joined Jul 2012

#668 · Jul 31, 2012

Hey everyone, does anyone here know if it's actually possible to get flagged or penalized for placing bets through international bookmakers?

Joshua Garcia8 Member

11 messages
joined Mar 2012

#669 · Jul 31, 2012

Personally, I haven't heard of anyone actually getting hit with a penalty.

edit:
here’s the quote from Nimoy from the other PDF—there are some interesting bits in here

Nimoy said:It’s a messy situation because under current US Law, participating in gambling with foreign operators is technically prohibited (if you're on US soil, which you are). Even though it isn't being actively enforced—meaning foreign bookies don't have IP blockers for the US, they still take registrations from Americans, MB is allowed here, and plenty of banks still permit withdrawals from MB to any account, not just checking, etc., etc.—the law is there. It's illegal to deposit with foreign bookies, but it isn't being enforced.

So, let’s say you walk into the IRS and tell them, "I made a profit of $17,485 on online bookies and I'd like to pay my taxes on it." I'm not sure how they'd react. They might tell you that anything withdrawn from abroad counts as foreign income and you'll owe tax (which hits about 45% once everything is tallied up). They definitely won't tell you, "Oh, do whatever you want, it's fine, you don't owe anything." So, you either pay the 45% (as foreign income) or they seize it all because you broke the law by betting online with foreign operators.

Then again, there's another side to this: right now, they don't really know what to do with Moneybookers, and generally speaking, foreign income isn't a top priority for the IRS at the moment. Will it be one day? Probably. But currently, they can only "see" those payments if you withdraw them directly to a US bank account (whether it's USD or another currency). If you move it to a savings or checking account, they need specific warrants to track that, and so far, they're only pulling those for massive amounts—like if you pull $15,000 in one go or something similar.

Anyway, I called at least ten tax advisors and various tax offices in different cities to ask around, but they’re incredibly stingy and rigid with information. They insist everything is taxable, while simultaneously, nobody alive seems to know what Moneybookers actually is. For instance, if on Moneybookers you get part of your funds from source X (a fee), another part from source Y (a friend paying you back), and a third part from source Y again... they treat it all the same and they have no clue where the money actually originated.

Raymond Cruz5 Newcomer

9 messages
joined Aug 2006

#670 · Aug 1, 2012

The last time I tried pulling cash out from one of those overseas online bookies, my bank (Raiffeisen) actually gave me a call. They made me sign some official statement confirming the funds came from a foreign sportsbook just so I could dodge paying taxes on income earned from abroad.

silentdrifter2 Newcomer

1 message
joined Aug 2012

#671 · Aug 1, 2012

Is it actually worth opening an account with Bwin? Looks pretty solid from where I'm sitting.
Anyone here actually used them before?

urbaneagle57 Newcomer

5 messages
joined Jul 2012

#672 · Aug 1, 2012

Raymond Cruz5 said:The last time I tried withdrawing funds from an overseas online sportsbook, my bank (Chase) actually called me out! I had to sign a formal statement confirming the money came from a foreign site just to make sure I wasn't trying to dodge taxes on income earned abroad.

Has anyone dealt with something like that in the last year?

Richard Young10 Member

33 messages
joined Feb 2011

#673 · Aug 1, 2012

Things could get pretty messy down the road if the government decides to start slapping taxes on winnings from online bookmakers... I can almost guarantee our local bookies won't be happy about it; they'll likely slash the maximum bet limits, and trying to actually pull your cash out of an account might become a total nightmare if they force us to stick to physical locations... Honestly, if that happens, we might just have to pack our bags and move somewhere where this kind of thing is actually legal 😁

Raymond Cruz5 Newcomer

9 messages
joined Aug 2006

#674 · Aug 2, 2012

urbaneagle57 said:Did this all go down within the last year?

Man, it’s been closer to a year and a half. Honestly, I took it personally, so I'm done messing around with those overseas bookies. Period.

urbaneagle57 Newcomer

5 messages
joined Jul 2012

#675 · Aug 2, 2012

Raymond Cruz5 said:After a year and a half of dealing with this, I've had enough. It really rubbed me the wrong way, so now I don't bother with those international bookies anymore.

Who exactly did you have a problem with? Was it the bank??

Jerry Ruiz Newcomer

6 messages
joined Aug 2012

#676 · Aug 4, 2012

Richard Young10 said:Things could get messy down the road if the government starts taxing winnings from online bookies. It’s a safe bet our local bookmakers won't allow higher stakes, and pulling cash out will become a massive headache if they force everyone to use physical betting shops instead. If that happens, we might just have to pack up and move to a place where this stuff is actually legal.😁

Neteller issues plastic Mastercard cards to its members. With one of those, you have a direct link to your online bookie—completely bypassing American banks and the tax man!
The US is almost on the list of countries where Neteller provides accounts for citizens. It's a service similar to Moneybookers; you can find more details about Neteller here.

Also, Moneybookers issues a Mastercard linked directly to your MB account, though currently, it's mostly for EU citizens. Since the US is aligning more with international standards, Moneybookers should be rolling this option out to Americans soon enough.

There’s a third option called Entropay. They also issue Mastercards, but very few online bookies accept them—maybe three or four decent ones at most.

Jerry Ruiz Newcomer

6 messages
joined Aug 2012

#677 · Aug 4, 2012

silentdrifter2 said:Is it actually worth opening an account with Bwin? It looks pretty solid.
Anyone here have any experience with them?

Look, Bwin is basically a playground for beginners and amateurs. Sure, the graphics are slick and the site is well-designed, but don't get too comfortable. If you start hitting big wins with significant stakes, they’ll limit your betting options faster than you can blink.

In my book, Bet365 is the sweet spot for those of us sitting right on the fence between amateur and pro. If you're a serious professional moving heavy volume, stick with Pinnacle or Canbet. But if your game is centered around Asian handicaps, you won't find better odds than what's at 188bet or 12bet.

Jerry Ruiz Newcomer

6 messages
joined Aug 2012

#678 · Aug 4, 2012

Available in denominations of $50, $100, $200, and $500. Note that these aren't in Euros.

Terry Rogers2 Newcomer

6 messages
joined Sep 2007

#679 · Aug 4, 2012

Jerry Ruiz said:Bwin is basically a playground for beginners and amateurs. Don't get me wrong, the graphics are gorgeous and the site is super polished, but the second you start winning with decent stakes? Boom. They'll limit your betting amounts faster than you can blink.

In my book, Bet365 is the sweet spot for those of us stuck somewhere in the middle—not quite pros, but definitely not total newbies either. If you’ve actually gone pro and you're throwing down serious cash, then you look toward Pinnacle or Canbet. But, if you're specifically hunting for Asian lines, the best selection is going to be over at 188bet or 12bet.

Honestly, 188bet limits you pretty heavily; I'm stuck at just 10 Euro 🙂 personally, whereas 12bet lets me go up to three bets of 250 Euro each.
When it comes to Asian handicap lines, it’s definitely SBOBet or Pinnacle for me.

neonjackal2 Newcomer

2 messages
joined Mar 2017

#680 · Aug 5, 2012

Jerry Ruiz said:They’re being sold in denominations of $50, $100, $200, and $500. It’s not in Dollars.

Has anyone actually messed around with these vouchers yet? Like, tried using them on a Bet365 account? I heard some chatter about people getting worked up because the sportsbooks won't touch their local currency, but then their cards are all set up in that same local cash... total headache, right?

Best offshore sportsbooks for online betting?

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