Best protein powders for muscle gain?

wiredpilot30 said:Great... except you're veering off track. I know exactly what you’re trying to pull here—I'm currently in ketosis myself, so I understand the mechanics inside and out. As for this idea of "unhealthy" eating, we could debate that for hours. 😛

If you're maintaining even a semi-normal diet, you aren't going to completely deplete your glycogen stores. Ketosis is a different animal entirely; the rules regarding glycogen change once you're there. Plus, as I said, you won't just bottom out your glycogen levels because the body monitors its status and adjusts accordingly.

You likely assume that being in ketosis leads to muscle wasting because you're hyper-focused on glycogen and have noticed a drop in muscle volume. But we're dealing with a completely different set of biological rules here. It isn't that simple or pathetic... the human body isn't some basic, predictable machine. 🙂

Anyway, this thread isn't the place to get bogged down in gluconeogenesis, triglycerides, and all that other technical jargon... so I'll end this here.

The body can never fully exhaust its glycogen reserves, but that's not the point here—the point is catabolism.

Intense (high VO2 max) or prolonged physical exercise stimulates cortisol release to increase gluconeogenesis and maintain blood glucose.[65] Proper nutrition[66] and high-level conditioning[67] can help stabilize cortisol release.

Essentially, anaerobic training ramps up glycogen consumption, which spikes stress levels, eventually forcing the body to ramp up cortisol production.

Catabolism—it’s one of those buzzwords that everyone seems to dread, though I suspect very few people actually grasp what it entails.
If you’re a healthy individual eating a balanced diet, seeing a spike in cortisol during a workout is perfectly normal; it really doesn't mean much at all.
It's a lot like how people obsess over growth hormone levels during training.

The whole debate about cortisol only becomes relevant when we start talking about genuine overtraining or chronic, high-level stress.
If your goal is to absolutely destroy yourself in the gym until you hit total failure, then sure, we can sit down and talk about why cortisol matters.

Just eat well, train with purpose, and don't waste your energy on nonsense.

wiredpilot30 said:Catabolism—it’s a word everyone fears, yet almost nobody actually understands.
Spiking cortisol during a workout is perfectly normal; it doesn't mean squat for a healthy person who eats a balanced diet.
It's the same logic you'd use if we spent all day obsessing over growth hormone surges during training.

We can only talk about cortisol being an issue when we're discussing overtraining or extreme, chronic stress.
If your goal is to absolutely wreck your body until you hit total failure, then sure, let's have a serious conversation about cortisol levels.

Eat well, train moderately, and don't waste your time on nonsense.

Is this coming from actual experience? Do you truly believe this works in practice, or are you just reciting what you read in textbooks? It seems to me like you rarely even step foot in a gym. Please, enlighten me: how exactly do you define "moderate" anaerobic training?

slydriver52 said:Are you actually speaking from experience here? Do you really think this works in practice, or did you just pick this up from reading textbooks? It feels to me like you rarely even step foot in a gym. Could you please explain what exactly you consider to be moderate anaerobic training?

Look, kid, let me wrap this up because I don't want to keep circling back to this topic...

It's not like I have a clue; I just sit around reading books and then post about it online since I've never actually stepped into a gym or lifted a weight in my life. Anyway, good luck hunting down those catabolic lifters, and enjoy your battle against cortisol 😛

I don't want to come off as totally rude, so I'll answer the second part straight. Moderate anaerobic training would be a decent workout—not too much downtime—lasting about an hour (unless you're doing full body), and without pushing your muscles past their limits. Personally, I've always been against marathon sessions or training to complete failure on every set. Also, you might want to look into how cortisol actually functions. It isn't some monster under the bed; like everything else in the body, it’s all about balance, which isn't hard to achieve for a healthy person. It’s honestly pretty funny when people act like cortisol is the boogeyman and talk about it solely as a "muscle eater."

I'm signing off... take care. 👋

wiredpilot30 said:Look, kid, let me make this quick, because I have no intention of revisiting this topic ever again.

Look, I don't claim to be an expert on the subject. I spend my time buried in books and then posting my thoughts online; I’ve never even set foot in a gym or picked up a dumbbell. So, by all means, enjoy your hunt for those catabolic lifters. Good luck to you. The struggle. Cortisol is a killer. If you aren't managing your stress levels, you might as well be throwing money down the drain and wondering why your body is breaking down. It’s like running an engine redlined for months on end—eventually, the whole thing is going to seize up. 😛

I don't want to come off as rude, so I'll address the second part of your point reasonably. A decent moderate anaerobic session should last about an hour—assuming you aren't doing a full-body routine—and involve minimal downtime without pushing your muscles past their absolute limit. Personally, I’ve always been against marathon workouts and grinding out sets until total muscular failure. By the way, you really ought to look into the actual role of cortisol. It isn't some monster under the bed; like everything else in the body, it’s all about maintaining balance, which is easy enough for a healthy person to manage. It’s honestly ridiculous watching people freak out over cortisol and treat it like nothing more than a muscle-wasting demon.

I'm out of this thread. Peace. 👋

So, you're asking if a workout really needs to be capped at an hour?😕 Is it because cortisol levels spike based on the duration of the workout rather than just the intensity?
Anaerobic training shouldn't exceed an hour, and that’s exactly why. Most people aren't even pushing themselves to true failure anyway. But more importantly, nobody wants to talk about the fact that this type of training essentially eats away at your muscle mass—amongst other things.
wiredpilot30, why are you still holding out on this boycott? You’re running all over New York City, but as far as I can tell, you haven't set foot in a gym in ages.

slydriver52 said:So, should workouts really be capped at an hour?😕 Is that because cortisol levels spike the longer you train, regardless of how intense it actually is?
Anaerobic training shouldn't go over an hour for that exact reason, and honestly, very few people actually train to total failure. Plus, nobody ever mentions how it basically just "eats your muscle," among other things.
wiredpilot30, why are you still boycotting everything? Are you still out running through New York City, or have you given up the gym entirely as far as I know?

It's not that anythingshould, I'm just sharing my take, and I get the feeling you already know perfectly well that cortisol is tied to intensity.
I made it pretty clear that I couldn't care less about cortisol; anyone stressing over their hormone levels during a workout is honestly just wasting their time.
There are a million different programs out there and they all work, regardless of how much cortisol you pump out while doing them. The absolute prerequisite for success with any of them is nutrition. I find it hard to believe people are killing themselves in the gym without having a clue about what they're eating. If they don't know, that's on them—though even those confused folks will see some results, unless they're living exclusively on cheesecake.

I feel like you're either just messing with me because you're bored, or you know me well enough to be having a bit of fun. If you do know me, you know I won't play this game for long... if you think I'm wrong, then lay out a correction... specifically regarding 😬

As for the stuff below, I'm not boycotting anything... I'm not running right now (shin splints) and I'm not hitting the gym at the moment, but I do train regularly, even if I'm using lighter weights currently due to my diet. Anything else you want to know? ☕

😁

wiredpilot30 said:Nothing is supposed to be a problem here—I’m just stating my opinion. And honestly, I think you know perfectly well that cortisol is tied directly to intensity.
I already made it clear that I couldn't care less about cortisol levels. Anyone stressing over their hormone output while training is genuinely wasting their time.
There are a million different programs out there, and they all work, regardless of how much cortisol you pump out during any given session. The absolute prerequisite for success across the board is nutrition. I find it hard to believe people are killing themselves in the gym without having even a basic grasp of what they eat. If they don't get it, that's on them. Even those clueless types will see some results, unless they're living exclusively on cheesecake.

It feels like you're either messing with me because you're bored or you know me well enough to be playing games. If you actually know me, you know I won't play this game for long... if you think I'm wrong, then provide a correction... specifically regarding 😬

As for the stuff mentioned below, I'm not boycotting anything... I'm not running right now (shin splint issues) and I'm not hitting the gym at the moment, but I train regularly and consistently, even if I'm using lighter weights currently due to my diet. Anything else you want to know? ☕

We've completely derailed the topic, so since we're off-topic anyway, are you heading to the game this Saturday? And I'm not mocking you; I'm just surprised that you're so interested in athletic conditioning, sports nutrition, and all that—assuming, of course, that you are the same wiredpilot30 I know.😁

slydriver52 said:😁
Since we've already derailed the topic, tell me—are you heading to the game this Saturday? And look, I'm not stalking you; I'm just genuinely surprised you're so into athlete conditioning and sports nutrition. Or maybe you're just wiredpilot30 in disguise?😁

Well, if you really know me, just give me a call and find out 😬 ...but honestly, it’s not even about pro athletes. It’s about my own body, what it needs, and specifically how it reacts to anaerobic training. Like I've said a hundred times before—I have zero intention of becoming a personal trainer, and I'm certainly not an encyclopedia. I just like using my own brain. I can't stand it when someone tells me, "Hey, milk is bad, stay away from it," and expects me to just take it as gospel. That exact kind of claim is what pushed me to start my own "research." I decided I'd rather figure things out myself by digging into actual studies and credible sources. ☕

There are certain things people used to preach to me that still make my skin crawl, and yet, people still talk about them like they're common sense today. 🤮

wiredpilot30 said:Look, if you want to talk, just call me and we can hash this out 😬 ...and frankly, I don't give a damn about an athlete's general conditioning. My focus is my own body, its specific needs, and the physiological effects of anaerobic training. Like I’ve said a hundred times already—I have zero intention of being anyone's personal trainer. I'm not an encyclopedia; I just prefer using my own brain. I refuse to let someone just tell me "milk is poison" and expect me to take it at face value without questioning it. That exact kind of sweeping claim is what drove me to start my own "research," deciding to vet everything myself through actual studies and legitimate sources. ☕

There are certain things people used to peddle as gospel that make my skin crawl today, yet they're still treated as common knowledge. 🤮

You can't learn everything just by reading papers. Formal education and hands-on practice come first. To be blunt, you seem way too confident in your own assertions, acting like your word is law. I saw right through you immediately because I can distinguish between genuine experience and mere pretension. It reminds me of that fraud who acted like an expert but wrote nothing but nonsense, yet was so delusional he couldn't see why anyone with actual expertise thought he was full of it. I don't know everything either, but years of training have taught me plenty. I stick to professional literature because I actually have access to it; my brother is a high-flyer and just received a major scholarship from the city of Washington, D.C. (back when he was a student). So, now you know exactly who you're dealing with.😁
You're a sharp kid, so stay that way. My only gripe is that you try to play the expert when you're part of a group, but I'll chalk that up to youth. You'll grow out of it. Cheers.

Well, feel free to point out my blunders... I’m more than happy to read them and actually give some thought to where I might be off the mark.
Everything I put out there comes from personal experience or at least a solid conviction that I know what I'm talking about. Even those who think they're experts usually just know as much as their instructors want them to believe. 😛
The whole anaerobic training scene is particularly fascinating... you see endless, idiotic articles based on tiny snippets of actual research, and some of the nonsense gets repeated so often it’s honestly pathological. We're talking everything from that supposed 15-minute "window" where you supposedly have to slam down whey protein, to the absolute disaster of mixing simple and complex carbs... it's just pure nonsense, really. 🙄 Even thinking about how bad milk can sit with some people still makes my head spin, even after all these years.

Talking to a few different trainers lately, I've noticed their methods vary so wildly it’s almost comical. But what’s even funnier is watching them argue, completely oblivious to the fact that they’re practically all right in their own way. There isn't just one way to do things; there are several approaches to everything. The real issue is the "copy-paste" trainers and the "authors" of those mindless fitness blogs. For good reason, I don't bother getting involved in debates about, say, how NFL players prepare for the season. It's just not my area, I don't have the background, and frankly, I have zero interest in studying it.

And man... what kind of talk is that? I think you've strayed a bit off course there, but hey, it's nice to know I'm still relatively young at 31. Can't complain about that. 😬

wiredpilot30 said:Fine, give me a list of my supposed "delusions"... I'll gladly read them and take any valid corrections into consideration.
Everything I write comes from hands-on experience or a firm grasp of the subject matter. Even those who think they're experts only know as much as their instructors have convinced them they know. 😛
The world of anaerobic training is particularly fascinating... there's an endless stream of moronic articles based on cherry-picked research snippets, and some of the nonsense spreads so fast it’s actually pathological—from the myth of a 15-minute "window" for mandatory whey protein intake to the disastrous mixing of high and medium glycemic carbs. It's all just garbage. 🙄 The idea of milk being "terrible" still makes my brain ache after all these years.

Talking to various trainers, I’ve realized their methods vary so wildly it’s almost comical. But what's even more ridiculous is watching them argue when, in reality, most of them are technically right. There are multiple valid approaches to everything. The real problem lies with the "copy-paste" trainers and the authors of those superficial articles. For good reason, I don't bother debating things like professional football conditioning, for example. I have zero interest or expertise in that field, nor do I care to study it.

And "man"? Seriously? I think you've lost your way a bit there, but hey, it's nice to know I'm still young at 31. That's a win. 😬

Everything you said holds water, except for one thing: someone without a regular gym routine or actual experience shouldn't be handing out advice to others. You're drinking whey after a workout with whole milk, which makes zero sense to me—it seems like you've confused a few concepts from reading too many blogs.
Who exactly are these friends of yours training? Casual weekend warriors or actual athletes?
Anyway, keep enjoying your reading, but remember: none of it matters if you don't have the mileage to back it up.
Maybe I mistook you for someone else, but I am still a few years older than you.😁

slydriver52 said:Everything you said checks out, but honestly, if someone isn't hitting the gym regularly or doesn't have actual experience, they probably shouldn't be handing out advice. You’re drinking whey with whole milk after a workout, which makes zero sense to me—unless I'm mistaken and you've just gotten a bit confused from reading too many fitness blogs.
Who exactly are these friends of yours training? Just casual weekend warriors or actual athletes?
Anyway, keep enjoying your reading, but just remember that all that theory doesn't mean much without real-world application.
Maybe I mixed you up with someone else, I don't know, but I am still a few years older than you.😁

You’re doing what most people do when they read articles... taking things completely out of context. The fact that I happened to drink whey with whole milk a couple of times isn't a rule. In fact, I don't even usually drink whey. 😉I was mostly just messing around because I love watching the "know-it-all" crowd at the gym lose their minds over stuff like that. 😁
When we're talking about weight loss advice for an average Joe or Anne (you'll notice I don't really bother getting into heavy athletic topics), I don't see what I said wrong—feel free to point it out if you can. I have plenty of experience in that area on my own body. Just because I'm not training 12 months straight, but maybe 7 or 8 months out of the year, doesn't make me an idiot. 😉

These guys aren't just "friends"... one works for a minor league baseball team, two are basically gym instructors, and one is a coach who competes in regional bodybuilding shows (I don't know the specifics, I'm not really interested, plus he's a skinny guy so I don't care much to follow his stuff. 😁)

And as for whether you've mistaken me for someone else, just take a look at my avatar. 🤷

wiredpilot30 said:You’re doing exactly what most people do when they read an article—you're cherry-picking bits and ignoring the actual concept. Just because I happened to mix whey with whole milk a couple of times doesn't make it a rule. In fact, I don't even drink whey regularly 😉 It was just me messing around, mostly because I love watching the "fitness gurus" at the gym lose their minds over it. 😁
When we're talking about weight loss advice for the average person like Perry or Anne (and you'll notice I don't bother wading into heavy athletic topics), I don't see where I went wrong. If you think I did, point it out. I have more than enough personal experience to back myself up. Just because I train 7 or 8 months out of the year instead of a full 12 doesn't mean I'm an idiot. 😉

These guys aren't my friends... one works for a minor league baseball team, two are nothing more than glorified local gym trainers, and one is a trainer who dabbles in regional bodybuilding shows (I don't know the details; I couldn't care less about those types, especially since he's just some scrawny ectomorph). 😁)

And as for whether you've mistaken me for someone else, just look at my avatar. 🤷

I probably did mistake you for someone else.
No hard feelings, cheers!

Which protein powder manufacturer is actually the best, objectively speaking?
I’ve been using stuff from MusclePharm lately, but I can't tell if it’s actually legit or just some low-quality filler.

Also, quick follow-up: if the main goal is packing on muscle mass, am I better off sticking with whey protein or should I be hitting the weight gainers?

Thanks.

Adam Long7 said:Which whey protein brand is actually the best?
I'm currently using Multipower—is that any good, or am I just wasting my money on low-quality stuff?

Also, quick question: if the goal is putting on serious muscle mass, should I be sticking to whey protein or go for a weight gainer instead?

Thanks!

Honestly, man, it doesn't matter which one you pick, so next time maybe grab something cheaper than Multipower.
A weight gainer is basically just whey protein mixed with a ton of sugar. It's way smarter to just buy some decent whey and grab some glucose powder on the side.
Just take a look at the ingredient label on those gainers and you'll see exactly what I mean!

Adam Long7 said:Which whey protein manufacturer is objectively the best?
I currently have some from Multipower—is that actually any good, or am I just wasting my money on low quality stuff?

Also, one more question: if the goal is purely gaining muscle mass, is it better to stick with whey protein or go for a weight gainer?

Thanks.

Multipower is solid, MusclePharm is decent, BioTech isn't bad, and Optimum Nutrition is excellent!
Personally, I’d steer clear of Scitec; in my experience, it was a total disaster. It felt like it was loaded with sugar, which caused serious bloating and... well, let's just say nuclear catastrophes in the restroom xD! MusclePharm is definitely my favorite.😁

Richard Cook2 said:Multipower is solid, MusclePharm is good, Biotech isn't bad, and Optimum Nutrition is killer!
Stay away from Scitec though—honestly, it was a total disaster for me. It’s loaded with sugar and caused some serious bloating... let's just say I had some absolute nuclear meltdowns in my bathroom! xD MusclePharm is definitely my go-to. 😁

Honestly, it's all the same crap. This idea that Scitec is packed with sugar is just nonsense. The only real difference is the flavor, which doesn't even matter that much since you chug it in like 20 seconds and move on.
MusclePharm products are the most expensive out there, but there is zero actual difference. Just grab whatever is cheapest and call it a day. It makes no difference if one concentrate is 80% and the other is 75%; that extra gram per scoop doesn't mean squat.

Adam Long7 said:Which whey protein brand is objectively the best?
I'm currently using Multipower—is that actually decent or just low-quality junk?

Also, one more thing: if the goal is building muscle mass, should I stick to whey protein or go with a weight gainer?

Thanks.

It’s tough to crown a single winner, but there are several heavy hitters at the top for good reason—think Optimum Nutrition, MuscleTech, Labrada Nutrition, BSN, and so on.
Personally, Gold Standard Whey is excellent. It dissolves easily in milk, which is a clear indicator of quality, and they don't load it with artificial sweeteners. Plus, the flavors are solid. You can just order online from a major distributor, have it shipped, and it arrives at your door. If you're in New York City, it might cost you around $200 including shipping, or if you prefer, you can just hunt through Amazon or eBay where there are endless listings.
Stay away from weight gainers. They are nothing but sugar bombs; once you actually read the label, you realize you'd be better off buying a box of Nesquik.

Matthew Richardson81 said:It’s all the same garbage. This idea that Optimum Nutrition is loaded with sugar is nonsense. The only real difference is the flavor, which isn't even a major factor—you chug it in twenty seconds and move on.
MusclePharm products are overpriced for no reason; there’s zero actual difference. Just grab the cheapest option on the shelf and call it a day. Whether one concentrate is 80% or 75% doesn't matter; that single gram difference per scoop is statistically irrelevant.

Optimum Nutrition is packed with sugar and should be avoided because you can't even trust how much whey is actually in there. Let's be real: no protein powder actually meets the exact specs listed on the label. On average, these concentrates are only about 60% whey protein. If you actually care about quality, stop buying concentrates and invest in an isolate, even if it costs significantly more.

slydriver52 said:It’s difficult to pinpoint a single winner, though several brands sit at the absolute top tier for good reason—Optimum Nutrition, MuscleTech, Labrada Nutrition, BSN, and so on.
Personally, I find Optimum Nutrition Whey to be excellent. It dissolves easily in milk, which is a clear indicator of quality, and it isn't loaded with artificial sweeteners. Plus, the flavors are actually decent. You can order online from a distributor in the Midwest, have it shipped, and pick it up at the local post office. If you're driving out from New York City to grab 10 lbs, once you factor in the gas, you're looking at roughly $200. Alternatively, if you want to save the hassle, just check eBay; there are endless listings there.
Stay away from weight gainers. They are nothing but sugar bombs; once you actually read the ingredients, you realize you might as well just buy a box of Nesquik.

If you don't mind me asking, where exactly in the Midwest are you ordering from? Thanks.