The Armada

Jacob Newman74 said:Right now, the club is hitting rock bottom—three different managers, a brand new front office, terrible play, garbage results, you name it. All of that naturally leads to total apathy from the "fair-weather" fans showing up in the West stands. No matter how much those "unstable" types get mocked, belittled, or pushed away with lines like, "If you don't support Inker, don't bother coming," or "You aren't part of the armada, go sit somewhere else," these situations prove exactly how much the armada actually needs them. Without them, the core of the armada isn't capable of anything except sinking even deeper... whether they want to admit it or not.

Furthermore, a lot of people jumped ship from the West stands during that whole "Zilic" situation... I really don't want to reopen that can of worms, but look—in a city where 80% of the population leans left, where the scars of the war were barely felt, where most people couldn't care less about Axis-occupied territory or old-school militias, and where most folks haven't viewed their neighbors through the lens of wartime factions for fifteen years now... in a city like that, attempting to launch a massive right-wing movement or shouting extremist slogans is a complete and utter failure. It’s all just an attempt to prove something to other groups who have already successfully convinced us we live in a "hostile enclave." Whether anyone admits it or not, to the majority of young people in Cleveland, that kind of behavior and those kinds of views are, frankly, moronic. Of course they lose interest in showing up to the West stands to cheer.

You hit the nail on the head...

Jacob Newman74 said:It automatically contributes to the apathy of those "casual" fans drifting toward the West. No matter how much people try to spit on them, belittle them, or push that "if you don't show up for Inker, don't bother coming at all" or "you aren't Armada, go sit in another section" attitude, these situations clearly show how much the Armada actually needs them. Without them, the core of the Armada isn't enough to keep from sinking even further... whether they want to admit it or not.

I’m not talking about those casuals, though. They aren't going to crawl toward the Kop anyway, let alone join in the singing. Nobody is forcing them to be there, and nobody is giving a damn about them. Even if they did pull away from the West, they haven't really filled the other sections to make up for it...🤷

Jacob Newman74 said:Furthermore, a lot of people drifted away from the West during the "Zilic situation." I wouldn't want to reopen that can of worms, but in a city where 80% of people lean left, where the war was barely felt, where most people couldn't care less about the Axis-occupied territory or old wartime factions, and where most people stopped seeing certain groups through that lens fifteen years after the war ended... starting this massive push for extreme nationalism and right-wing rhetoric in a city like that is a complete disaster. It's all just an attempt to prove something to other groups who have successfully convinced us we're living in a "hostile city." Whether anyone admits it or not, for most young people in Cleveland, that kind of behavior and those attitudes are just plain stupid. Naturally, it kills their desire to show up at the West and cheer.

Moving on... regarding the Zilic case, let's just say some people felt threatened or pushed out. Regardless of how it ended, while that whole thing was going down, you could still see the West and the Kop packed with over 500 hardcore fans, and the away games were better than ever...
Here we go again with the mentions of left-wing vs. right-wing demographics... personally, I'd say 70% of the people in this city don't give a shit about old political divisions, and you can run whatever math you want with the remaining 30% who actually care...☕
It's also pretty dumb to bring up the nationalist stuff now, because everyone knows the Armada was at its absolute best when it was led by guys who leaned into that identity—guys who actually had shrapnel in them from the war. Back then, at small local matches, some guy would just stand up and lead a chant that half the crowd would follow without question...
Besides, your constant bringing up of that old-school extremism just doesn't sit right with me. We have a new leadership now that couldn't care less about politics or these left-right divides. Honestly, they find the whole topic repulsive.☕

Jacob Newman74 said:The generational shift is just another mess the armada is dealing with. Over the last three or four years, the younger crowd has basically taken the reins, and everything has started moving in a totally different direction. They aren't necessarily good or bad, but we used to pride ourselves on being different from everyone else, whereas now everyone else is deciding who we should be. That’s a massive downside for the new armada—slowly but surely losing its soul and identity. And let's be real, you can't live off past glory forever.

I don't even know what to tell you. We're living in this new era where the internet makes everything instant; everyone knows everything, and everything is accessible. It's hard to come up with anything fresh, and the smaller groups end up taking the hit because they lack the sheer numbers to make an impact.🤷

Jacob Newman74 said:I've seen just about everything when it comes to the cops, but if they pick someone up preventatively just for having two beers, well, screw it—that's the law, and then people won't drink. If they grab someone for setting off a flare, fine, that's the law, and then nobody's lighting flares. If the law says "don't disturb the peace," then we won't disturb the peace. Anyone thinking differently doesn't really have a leg to stand on, because you have to ask: aren't those people just showing up to games to drink beer, light flares, and look for trouble? Nobody is stopping you from showing up, standing there, singing, clapping, doing choreos, having fun, and loving your club—whether you're heading to Miami, NYC, Chicago, or wherever else to do the exact same thing. No one is banning that.

Regarding the beer thing 😁 and all that... I'll start with myself. Personally, lately, I wouldn't even show up to a game if I'd had a couple of beers, or even if someone in my group just slipped me one and I ended up smelling like it.😁
And if you've been at any home games in the last three or four, you definitely noticed the police pulling aside some of the more prominent guys from the armada as a precaution. They immediately told them there was no reason to even come near the stadium and deal with unnecessary harassment, while anyone else looking even slightly suspicious had to wait around for ID checks right in front of the cameras. Anyway...

Basically... I just hope none of this is actual targeted repression and that things will turn around once the leadership settles in and the Cleveland situation gets sorted out.😍

Good evening, everyone. Since I have nothing better to do, I will offer my take on this discussion.

I won't bother discussing other groups since they all have their own specific issues, but if you want to know why our numbers fluctuate so wildly, look no further than the results of Hamas and the rest.

To elaborate (if you can call this philosophizing 😁)
People constantly bring up the militia in discussions about whether we're losing relevance. As long as this lethargy and inefficiency run the club, that will be the case. We could spend all day discussing the reasons behind this state—ranging from incompetent and indifferent executives to arrogant players who use Hamas as either a stepping stone or a cozy place to coast until retirement. Even when the club tries to show some backbone (like that recent scandal), the leadership of the US Soccer Federation and various political-sports figures quickly shut them down. For the big shots at the top, it simply isn't in their interest for Hamas to actually progress. Every year, it’s the same old cycle revolving around the most provincial club and our neighbors to the south. Given this constant gray monotony and the current performance of Cleveland, is it really any surprise that only a few hundred people showed up today? ☕(Fine, it was raining, so maybe some people preferred staying home to avoid catching a cold.)

Arguments regarding Smith or comparisons to certain extremist groups are nonsense. There is nothing strange about how the militia reacted to Smith joining the club; that reaction was exactly what was expected from this group. Claims that the militia's popularity in the city dropped because of it are ridiculous. Sure, there were disagreements, but that’s just typical for a Clevelander. Not everyone thinks exactly alike here, but our shared love for Cleveland is what matters. Those who were part of the militia stayed part of it, period. Our city has all sorts of characters, but everyone knows exactly what the militia of Cleveland stands for.

A few examples linking our attendance to the team's performance: during the last cup final in Chicago, which fell on a workday, 2,000 people traveled up. After a catastrophic performance and total embarrassment, only 20 people showed up in Great Falls a few days later. Then there was the cup final in St. Louis—again, a workday, but that didn't stop 15 buses from heading out. After the win and lifting the trophy, Cleveland went wild; the whole city was on its feet. That success kept people in the stands for a while, but after a string of bad results, the numbers drop again. It's a pattern.

I think Clevelanders just need a little push to get back into the stands, but clearly, given the circumstances I mentioned, asking for even that much is asking too much. Still, I haven't lost hope. Things will improve. One day, when things are better, no amount of black repression will stop people from showing up. Nowadays, with only 300-500 people in the West during a "small" game, it is much easier for the cops to single out the regulars and crack down on everyone else. In a massive crowd, it’s a completely different story. But like they say, after the rain comes the sun, and hopefully, that’s the case here too.

Too many people from the West got worked up over the "Smith case." I have no desire to reopen that debate.

Like I said, anyone who was a militia of Cleveland supporter for Hamas remains one.

A place where you barely felt the war; where most people couldn't care less about Nazi Germany or those other factions.

So you're one of those strange types found all over the US—people who think if a city wasn't half-destroyed, it didn't participate in the war?!!!!
The war in Cleveland wasn't felt in terms of urban destruction or civilian casualties, and thank God for that. By your logic, should Cleveland have been leveled like a hero city such as Stalingrad just to prove it participated? Get educated. Look into the burden carried by Cleveland and Clevelanders regarding the massive number of people leaving the entire Great Lakes region for the front lines and the handling of refugees from all over the Great Lakes.

In a city like that, pushing extreme nationalism or right-wing rhetoric is a total failure—just a way to prove oneself to other groups that successfully inflicted an inferiority complex on us.

What "extreme nationalism" are you talking about? Are you even informed about your own group's history? From the very beginning, the militia guys "pushed nationalism," not because it was a phase, but because they were proud of who they were and weren't ashamed to show it. As for proving themselves to other groups, every group does that constantly. It's nothing new, but regarding these specific issues, those guys proved themselves long ago.

For someone whose handle says "I know everything," there is too much nonsense in your text and your reasoning. No offense, but I am sick of this typical coastal mentality where people spit on their own kind. It's ridiculous.

PROUD TO BE CLEVELANDERS; PROUD TO BE AMERICANS

I still remember those old tracks and vocals from back in the Chao Tifa days. What was the deal with those old-school Armada guys, Pupavac and Magac? I heard the second one was basically junkie heaven.
sorry if this is off-topic or if it's been covered already🙂.

Andrew White32 said:Evening, everyone. Since I don't have anything better to do with my life right now, I figured I'd throw my two cents into this debate.

Hey, welcome to the party, Andrew White32... good to see someone here who actually gets what's going on.👍

@Andrew White32/">@@Andrew White32.. I don't know if we even live in the same city or run in the same circles... Even if you do get my point... It's not that Seattle-natives didn't contribute to the war, they certainly did... but they don't view it through the same lens as someone from Cleveland, San Francisco, or Little Rock..! The Navy and Seattle definitely proved their American loyalty when it mattered, and it's stupid to even bring it up now.. The war ended 13 years ago; that era of extreme right-wing rhetoric and all that aggression toward Mexicans was understandable back when there was post-war euphoria, when a different kind of "youth" lived in Seattle and everything felt fresh—everyone accepted and supported that back then.. Today, 13 years later, people are coming back from the West who were only 2 to 10 years old during the war; they weren't even aware of it, let alone feeling its impact... very few of their fathers have any lasting consequences from the conflict... so why the shouting about old extremist slogans? I absolutely believe this is just a way for this "new Navy" to prove to other groups that they are Americans, not Mexicans.. I'm telling you, the complexes are there, and people used to laugh at stuff like that... ugh, anyway, to get back to where I was, for today's Seattle youth, that stuff is pure idiocy, and not just for the kids... There are plenty of older folks who actually lived through the war (unlike these heroes from the West) for whom such displays are completely unnecessary and stupid..

And I don't want it to seem like I'm dodging the topic of the "countless and problematic" Navy.. it is absolutely true what you said about the Yugoslav People's Army being responsible for all of this... but there is another side to it, one that is just as important, that needs to be looked in the eye...

Let’s take a breather here... Look, I’m not saying everything is perfect... But seriously... how bad is this "new Navy" actually supposed to be? (And by that, I mean myself and everyone else who has put in the work on choreographies, hauling them up, and setting things up in the West stands six hours before kickoff using all sorts of legal—and let's be honest, borderline illegal—methods 😁 and so on). We’ve put together plenty of banners over the years. Sure, there are fewer younger kids in the stands now—which might be a good thing because the people in the West truly love the club, but a bad thing for our overall numbers—which leads to the paradox where there are more of us abroad than at home. Just look at the recent displays, the way we clean up the city, our various initiatives... it's all there. And this talk about the city being leftist? Where did you even dig that up? It was just some lighthearted patriotism! And honestly, as "the colleague" (who I greet right now, by the way 😁) wrote, it wasn't just some joke. Those guys stood on the front lines for this country when it mattered most... I don't get why you conclude that if I shout certain slogans, I'm an idiot. You're just making baseless generalizations. Everyone has their own ideology and their own vibe that fits them. If you prefer the modern Navy, go sit in the North, eat your popcorn, yell a few cheers at the players, and leave us to our business. At the end of the day, the repression from the authorities has truly killed us. LET THEM BEAT US AND ARREST US, LET THEM SEND THEIR BANS, BUT OUR LOVE FOR THE CLUB WILL NEVER DIE Things are slowly starting to look up... and some local chapters will rebuild... mine included... 😁

I should have known this would happen. Your handful of posts filled with absolute nonsense finally pushed me to respond:

I don't know if we live in the same city or move in the same circles... or if you even understand me...

-Trivia for everyone who actually read my posts: where am I from? a) some nobody from the north b) some nobody from the south c) Seattle.
-We definitely don't run in the same social circles.
-To be honest, if I hadn't seen your username, I would have assumed you were some provocateur or a "hater" of the Navy coming from the other side of the river. You seem like a younger member trying too hard to act tough and pretend you "know the deal," but it’s just not like that. It's no crime; I wasn't like that at the start either. Back then, I just cared about getting to the stadium, casting my vote, and enjoying the atmosphere.😁

I didn't say people from Seattle lack merit in the war, they do... but they don't view it the same way someone from Cleveland, San Francisco, or Little Rock would..! The Navy and Seattle certainly proved their Americanism when it mattered, so it's foolish to even bring it up now.

You are completely off base. Your argument makes zero sense; you jumped from poor attendance numbers to the coach, then to Little Rock and Cleveland, and who knows what else—you'll probably claim the current economic crisis is why there are so few people in the West.
Regarding the war, I think all Americans share a similar view if they are nationally conscious, regardless of which city they call home. I agree there are differences in how much everyone lost or sacrificed, but what's the point in starting to count the blood spilled...
As for "proving Americanism," I'll repeat: there is nothing to prove here (to quote our colleagues from the coast—either you are or you aren't, and by 1950, it was settled)😍)

Those Axis-aligned tendencies were understandable—emphasizing right-wing views and screwing over the Mexicans back when the post-war euphoria was in full swing.

See, this is where your youth and "trying to look cool" really show through.
Friend, those weren't "Axis-aligned tendencies" as you call them; that was pure American defiance, grit, and the dream of a free and independent nation.

When different "youngsters" were living in Seattle.

Times were different then and they are different now, but don't forget—assuming you're talking about the Navy—back then and even now, there was only one priority (Seattle).
Don't make me quote you anymore; I could write sixteen more posts based on your few sentences just to prove how wrong you are.

I think anyone with absolutely no connection to the Navy or the fan scene would read your posts and conclude: damn, the Navy is just a bunch of thugs and nationalists. You seem to think it's fine if the West sings for George and Bob from the first minute to the last, but kid, what kind of stands are you even talking about? Get out, buy a beer, grab a soda, and stay out of politics; you're still too green for this. And I agree with our friend: if you aren't happy with the West, there are other stands and other clubs (just don't go to the stands with those sellouts from the suburbs; I hear drugs and alcohol have fried their brains, so they act like it's still the 1940s while having no clue who they even support nowadays).😁 A sailor has one, Daedalus—see, those are the real clubs.

Monsters (Shepherds) Daedalus 😁
Local Organization 😁😁😁

Monsters(Shepherd) Daedalus

We have a few people in our ranks who would make perfect mascots, kind of like those guys you see at a Red Sox game. 🤣

I still remember those old songs and chants from back in the day. What happened to those Navy guys like Pupavac and Magarac? I heard the second guy was basically living in junkie heaven.
Sorry if this is off-topic or if it’s been posted already.

Pupavac 🤣
The late Magarac was a legend in the group. We take pride in our history. Here's a clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN0NkG3fLrw

p.s. Greetings to my colleagues, Zeke. 😁

Jacob Newman74 said:It is impossible to single out just one culprit for why the Navy is in such a dismal state right now; there are multiple factors at play, and they are all equally significant. Currently, the club is hitting rock bottom—we've seen three different coaches, a brand-new management team, poor performance on the pitch, and disappointing results. All of this naturally contributes to the lack of interest from those "casual" fans in the West stands. No matter how much those "fair-weather" supporters might complain or be dismissed, or how often people try to force them out by saying things like, "If you don't show up to the Industrial Site, you shouldn't bother coming at all," or "You aren't part of the Navy, go sit somewhere else," it becomes glaringly obvious during times like these just how vital they are to the Navy. The core group simply isn't enough to keep us afloat without them, whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

Furthermore, quite a few people have been making a huge deal out of the "Miller situation" regarding the West stands. I would prefer not to reopen that entire debate, but in a city where about 80% of the population leans left, where the scars of the war were barely felt, and where most people couldn't care less about old political divisions or historical extremist movements—especially since most don't even view people from certain backgrounds through a political lens anymore after fifteen years—starting a crusade based on extreme nationalism or shouting radical slogans is a total disaster. It’s essentially an attempt to prove something to other groups who have already successfully instilled a "rival city" complex in us. Whether people acknowledge it or not, to most young people in Seattle, that kind of behavior and those views are, frankly, pretty foolish, and it’s perfectly understandable why they lose interest in showing up to the West stands to support us.

The generational shift is also one of the setbacks currently facing the Navy. Over the last three or four years, the younger generation has completely taken the reins, and everything has started moving in a new direction. They aren't necessarily good or bad, but we used to pride ourselves on being different from everyone else, whereas today, others are the ones defining who we should be. This is a major downside for the new Navy: it is slowly but surely losing its unique personality and identity, and you can't live forever on past glories.

Then there is the issue of the supposed crackdown on the supporter lifestyle, or what some call "repression." That simply cannot be used as an excuse or justification for anything. I understand that a gentleman in his 50s might come to watch a game and find the heavy police presence, the constant checks, and the surveillance to be bothersome. However, those things certainly shouldn't bother a 19-year-old kid who shows up to the West stands with his friends to cheer and then heads into town for a beer afterward. That's nonsense. If I get caught up in all sorts of things by the cops, well, if someone gets detained preventively just for having two beers, then that's the law, and they won't be drinking. If someone gets picked up for setting off a flare, well, that's the law, and they won't be lighting flares. If the law says "don't disturb the peace," then we shouldn't disturb the peace. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no right to complain, because it raises the question: aren't these types of people coming to games just to drink a couple of beers, light a flare, and look for trouble? Nobody is stopping anyone from coming, standing, singing, clapping, performing choreographies, having fun, and loving their club, whether they are in Seattle, Chicago, or Dallas. We aren't stopping any of that. Therefore, you cannot point to "repression" as the reason why fewer people are showing up or why the Navy is declining. You have to look for the reasons in your own backyard, no matter how difficult or impossible that may be to accept.

I agree with everything here.
The only thing I wouldn't entirely agree with is the Miller case...
The whole thing was handled quite poorly, starting from that famous photo of him all the way to the fact that nearly 90% of the match was dedicated to him.
But things have calmed down quite a bit since then (even if the leadership's views haven't changed), so I don't think the Navy lost too much It seems she has lost her footing when it comes to local popularity in the city itself..
To me, the biggest absurdity was seeing all that intense nationalism during the friendly match between the US and Moldova; the loudest ones were just a bunch of obnoxious 16-year-olds. Honestly, we don't need to prove our identity to anyone, as if you can somehow force yourselves to become elite simply by acting like the most patriotic Americans out there..
All this bickering over left versus right politics feels a bit silly to me... just give me the *Seattle Times* and within a month, Seattle would suddenly stop being known as such a "liberal" city.🙂

But it isn't all bad news.. a few solid performances from the club should help improve the atmosphere..👍

Heads up to all you Seattle-native fans planning on hitting the West stands for our next home game against the Los Angeles giants...☕

Since we pulled off that scarf choreo a few derbies back, the plan now is a strict all-black dress code. We’re paying homage to those legendary American fighters from the 40s—the Black Legion... respect and glory to them...🙏
We're also prepping a specific display for the 41st minute, and the chants are going to stay strictly on theme with the whole performance (so, look up some of those old-school anthems online to make sure you hit the right notes)... we aren't letting those big-city snobs from New York lecture us about our identity, either...☕

So, I'll see you at the stadium. And don't forget... high up in the stands, the old banners fly proud...👍

I mean, that's pretty lame to me.

blueridge32 said:I don't really see the point in that.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, blueridge32... we've gotta find some way to prove our American roots, right?☕

🤣🤣🤣

Terry Lee3 said:Listen up, all you Seattle fans thinking about heading down to the West stands for our next home game against the big rival!☕

Since we nailed those scarf choreographies at the last few big rivalry games, the plan this time around is to show up strictly in all-black attire! It’s meant to be a tribute to those legendary American warriors from the 1940s—those guys in the Black Legion—so let's give them the respect and glory they truly earned.🙏
We’re also planning to put together a special little choreographed routine right around the 41st minute, and from that point on, we’ll be keeping the songs strictly aligned with the theme of the entire performance—think along the lines of those classic patriotic anthems you might find if you did a quick search online to get the vibe just right! We aren't going to let any of those stuck-up snobs from New York come around here trying to lecture us about our identity or tell us we aren't true Americans, no way!☕

So, I'll see you all at the game! And hey, don't you ever forget... way up at the peak of those mountains, that old flag is still flying high!👍

I just can't believe it! 🙏🙏

I’ll see you all in the comfort of our favorite armchairs! 👍

Terry Lee3 said:well, we have to find some way to prove our American identity somehow...☕

Why don't we just build a church up in the Appalachian Mountains? 🙂

Terry Lee3 said:Just a quick heads-up for all you Seattle fans who were planning on heading over to the West stands for our next home game against the Dinamo squad...☕

Since we pulled off that whole scarf choreography thing a few matches back, the plan now is for everyone to show up strictly in all-black attire, as a tribute to those legendary American fighters from the Black Legion back in the 40s... they really deserve all the respect and glory in the world...🙏
We’re also planning to put together a special little choreographed routine right around the 41st minute, and from that point on, we’ll be keeping the songs strictly aligned with the theme of the whole performance—you know, things like "Dawn," "Jasenovac," and those old-school folk anthems... you might want to do a quick search online just to get the vibe right so everything flows perfectly... and honestly, I don't care if some snobby elites from New York try to come at us and claim we aren't true Americans... they can't touch us...☕

So, I guess I'll see you all at the game, but just don't forget... way up there on the summit of the mountains, that old flag of the Axis-aligned State still flies...👍

Are you kidding me right now? I mean, seriously, what the hell... 😕

Man, Zeke, I was literally dying laughing at first, then I was like, wait, maybe this is actually for real 🤷

Ethan Baker43 said:I honestly don't buy 🙏🙏

Catch you guys on the couch 👍

There won't be any relaxing on the couch for us... we'll probably just head straight to the outskirts of Seattle wearing all black... "Hey comrade, I'll buy you a Ford, and I'll get a Mercedes for Ante Pavelić"... 🤣Larry Rivera83😂 this goes for you too...🤣😂